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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I haven't finished the game yet but more or less know what happens. Something I've seen a lot of people fixate on is trying to define what is real and what is not real, and I can't say I agree to much of it, especially the belief that the entire game takes place within a nightmare or dream. Too much fixation on literal rather than metaphysical and the deliberate Lovecraftian abstract nature of the Great Ones.

From what I can gather, the Great Ones are multidimensional beings who, in typical Lovecraftian fashion, specialise in manifesting the psyche/mind as reality and exploring it. It's how they're most easily able to communicate with mortals, and vice versa. Dreams and nightmares are of great significance to the plot as perhaps these are the most direct and stable states of mind to cross the dimensional bridge and interact with them. This also ties into the game's setting, a sequence of moons across what is supposed to be one night, night being the time we dream sleep. This cycle is of special consideration as its when the Great Ones are breeding, as they have done so in the past.

The church/lab/whoever learned of the Great Ones and much of what you see in the game is their attempts to commune with them. Forcing people into and harnessing their nightmares/dreams as a platform for communication. And I mean, this seems to be a running theme: Mensis' nightmare was used to commune with Mergo, no doubt involved in some weird summoning ritual involving impregnating the Pthumeru Queen, a stillborn, and yeah. It seems very abstract, like there's a cost of the host, the dreamer, and maybe even the Great One involved to create this link. The Pthumeru Queen bows to you and disappears once you've destroyed the Wet Nurse, more or less disconnecting the Great Ones from that nightmare.

I kinda feel that's what the Hunters Dream is too. Gehrman is the (current) host and it's a place that keeps the night eternal, accessible only by Hunters who use it to grow stronger. 'Souls has always considered the game mechanic of respawning enemies and yourself, upgrading, the hub, etc as also part of the story and lore. Always an element of time almost standing still, cyclic events, like what you're experiencing now will go on forever, both as story and literal game, until you "beat" it.
 

Uthred

Member
From what I can gather, the Great Ones are multidimensional beings who, in typical Lovecraftian fashion, specialise in manifesting the psyche/mind as reality and exploring it.

That doesnt seem like a particularly accurate summation of, certainly, the original HPL works nor the general core expanded mythos, I suppose if you're using "Lovecraftian" in the pop culture sense it holds though. The nightmare realms/madness/etc in Lovecraft were generally very physical and real, just beyond mans common understanding. Manifesting the psyche and such is more a hallmark of modern/post-modern horror.

It's how they're most easily able to communicate with mortals, and vice versa. Dreams and nightmares are of great significance to the plot as perhaps these are the most direct and stable states of mind to cross the dimensional bridge and interact with them. This also ties into the game's setting, a sequence of moons across what is supposed to be one night, night being the time we dream sleep. This cycle is of special consideration as its when the Great Ones are breeding, as they have done so in the past.

I do agree that dreams and nightmares, either as a symbolic vehicle or as realms made real by the Great Ones perception of them are significant to the plot.
 
I don't know if it has been discussed before, but i'm watching ENB's walkthroughs and regarding Iosefka's imposter? after watching the first 3 episodes it is clearly seen that true Iosefka is replaced after the fight with F. Gascoigne.

Hint:you can see through the window cracks that she's holding a weapon,whereas before she didn't and also she's asking again if we're going to hunt like it was the first time we met.Also before that there is a hidden dialogue trigger with true Iosefka that suggests that the person you're talking with now(and is suddenly interested in finding survivors) IS NOT THE SAME PERSON!
 
I think it's so damn cool that this game has aliens in it and it works. I mean, in context. It's the last element I expected to run across.
 
Ok I finished it. And I don't understand anything about the story at all. Did GAF figure it out?

tumblr_nma5cc9y941qep3h6o1_1280.jpg
 
So I'm understand, generally speaking, The Great Ones etc, but now my mind is getting a bit confused as to what exactly the purpose of the hunt and the beasts are? Are these literally a result of blood transfusions between great ones and humans?
 

Steel

Banned
I haven't finished the game yet but more or less know what happens. Something I've seen a lot of people fixate on is trying to define what is real and what is not real, and I can't say I agree to much of it, especially the belief that the entire game takes place within a nightmare or dream. Too much fixation on literal rather than metaphysical and the deliberate Lovecraftian abstract nature of the Great Ones.

From what I can gather, the Great Ones are multidimensional beings who, in typical Lovecraftian fashion, specialise in manifesting the psyche/mind as reality and exploring it. It's how they're most easily able to communicate with mortals, and vice versa. Dreams and nightmares are of great significance to the plot as perhaps these are the most direct and stable states of mind to cross the dimensional bridge and interact with them. This also ties into the game's setting, a sequence of moons across what is supposed to be one night, night being the time we dream sleep. This cycle is of special consideration as its when the Great Ones are breeding, as they have done so in the past.

The church/lab/whoever learned of the Great Ones and much of what you see in the game is their attempts to commune with them. Forcing people into and harnessing their nightmares/dreams as a platform for communication. And I mean, this seems to be a running theme: Mensis' nightmare was used to commune with Mergo, no doubt involved in some weird summoning ritual involving impregnating the Pthumeru Queen, a stillborn, and yeah. It seems very abstract, like there's a cost of the host, the dreamer, and maybe even the Great One involved to create this link. The Pthumeru Queen bows to you and disappears once you've destroyed the Wet Nurse, more or less disconnecting the Great Ones from that nightmare.

I kinda feel that's what the Hunters Dream is too. Gehrman is the (current) host and it's a place that keeps the night eternal, accessible only by Hunters who use it to grow stronger. 'Souls has always considered the game mechanic of respawning enemies and yourself, upgrading, the hub, etc as also part of the story and lore. Always an element of time almost standing still, cyclic events, like what you're experiencing now will go on forever, both as story and literal game, until you "beat" it.

This is more or less what I've been thinking too. Speaking of the Hunter's dream and the "it's all a dream induced by the great ones" theory, what do you think causes the hunters to stop having Dreams? Eileen is a fellow hunter that stops having dreams during the storyline, and you meet a few other hunters that no longer dream.

What does it mean if they're already in the dream? Does it mean they've "accepted their death" like Gehrman wants you to do and are only one death away from leaving the dream and their memories of it behind, or is it that they've already returned to reality and it's their last try to effect the real world?

So I'm understand, generally speaking, The Great Ones etc, but now my mind is getting a bit confused as to what exactly the purpose of the hunt and the beasts are? Are these literally a result of blood transfusions between great ones and humans?

The great ones are trying to reproduce, so they give humans their blood which leads them to eventually have their kids or become beasts, is what my interpretation is.
 

Kurtofan

Member
Aliens is a pretty simplistic way to put it, it's more cosmic horror, inspired by Lovecraft's Cthulu mythos, with Gothic elements.
 

sn00zer

Member
How do I follow the lore in Bloodborne? Getting it the next week or two, and I completely missed the story in Dark Souls for the 20-30 hrs I played it and Idont want to do the same with Bloodborne
 

Kurtofan

Member
How do I follow the lore in Bloodborne? Getting it the next week or two, and I completely missed the story in Dark Souls for the 20-30 hrs I played it and Idont want to do the same with Bloodborne

Talk to npcs, read item descriptions.

Would you be more comfortable with extraterrestrial beings?

It's just a synonym for aliens, so no. I'm not saying "aliens" aren't involved, but this isn't sci-fi or something, this is cosmic horror. It's a pretty famous subgenre of horror fiction.

There are many different genres of fiction that uses aliens.
 

Gun Animal

Member
How do I follow the lore in Bloodborne? Getting it the next week or two, and I completely missed the story in Dark Souls for the 20-30 hrs I played it and Idont want to do the same with Bloodborne
explore everything, talk to every npc you can until they start repeating themselves, read item descriptions. Also, don't send anyone to iosefka's clinic because that npc and their dialogue will be lost.
 

Steel

Banned
explore everything, talk to every npc you can until they start repeating themselves, read item descriptions. Also, don't send anyone to iosefka's clinic because that npc and their dialogue will be lost.

Well, there is one person you should send to the clinic... Or murder.
 

Gbraga

Member
What is the general opinion on how much Arianna knows about how special her blood seems to be?

She is wearing the Noble Dress, after all (or is it just very similar?), I don't think she would have access to the clothes of Cainhurst nobles if she was just a distant relative with no idea of her heritage.
 
Would you be more comfortable with extraterrestrial beings?

Extraterrestrial being would be a pretty imprecise term to use for inter/inner/multi-dimensional beings. To me the precise origin of Bloodborne's various creatures is still unclear, but from what I've seen they seem much more inline with beings that operate beyond the normal limits of space-time than what one would expect from simple extraterrestrial beings. The reason this distinction is relevant is because another dimensional plane whilst beyond the limits of Earth, might still intersect with it.
 

SargerusBR

I love Pokken!
Talk to npcs, read item descriptions.



It's just a synonym for aliens, so no. I'm not saying "aliens" aren't involved, but this isn't sci-fi or something, this is cosmic horror. It's a pretty famous subgenre of horror fiction.

There are many different genres of fiction that uses aliens.

Well i consider an alien anything that is not from this planet. Problem is most people upon reading "aliens" immediatly think of grey beings with big heads and flying saucers.
 

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
heh I've only now just noticed that you get "Nightmare Slain" for the Moon Presence AND the Wet Nurse for obvious reasons


From give us Laurence's dream already
 

Soulflarz

Banned
How do I follow the lore in Bloodborne? Getting it the next week or two, and I completely missed the story in Dark Souls for the 20-30 hrs I played it and Idont want to do the same with Bloodborne

-Read through this entire thread
-Beg someone to summarize it

(not kidding)
 

Coconut

Banned
Extraterrestrial being would be a pretty imprecise term to use for inter/inner/multi-dimensional beings. To me the precise origin of Bloodborne's various creatures is still unclear, but from what I've seen they seem much more inline with beings that operate beyond the normal limits of space-time than what one would expect from simple extraterrestrial beings. The reason this distinction is relevant is because another dimensional plane whilst beyond the limits of Earth, might still intersect with it.
Life beyond our earth seems pretty apt definition.
 
Life beyond our earth seems pretty apt definition.

But that's only an assumption, because we only have evidence of their appearance on Earth. I would rather say they inhabit hidden dimensions, but nevertheless manifest on Earth. In the end, since we are dealing with a work of fiction, their 'alien' aesthetic doesn't exclude them from terrestrial origins, nor would being somehow 'other' dimensional exclude them from the same thing.
 

Kurtofan

Member
It's more extra dimensional aliens than extraterrestrial aliens. They don't come from space, they come from dimensions alien to our mind. They don't have spaceships or whatever.
 

LiK

Member
well, ENB confirmed in Part 11 of his LP that one of those aliens with the vial is the real doctor. so that's that.

and he confirmed the alien with the Beast rune is the cannibal if you sent him to the clinic.
 

Auctopus

Member
I've got a grasp on most things but funnily enough, one of the main things I don't understand is the significance of killing Mergo's Wet Nurse...

Who is Mergo and why did killing the Wet Nurse activate the final boss battle? How was that the climax?
 
ok, i'm going a little bit off topic, but this seems the right place to talk about it
does anybody remember the project beast trailer?
while rewatching that trailer, i've noticed that everything in that video is in the final game
everything but this
what's your thought about it?
 

Guevara

Member
It's more extra dimensional aliens than extraterrestrial aliens. They don't come from space, they come from dimensions alien to our mind. They don't have spaceships or whatever.

I was totally expecting to see a crashed flying saucer in the forbidden woods by the aliens.

Not to mention, the game has a literal alien autopsy set up in Iosefka's.
 

Soulflarz

Banned
well, ENB confirmed in Part 11 of his LP that one of those aliens with the vial is the real doctor. so that's that.

and he confirmed the alien with the Beast rune is the cannibal if you sent him to the clinic.

I now repeat my "I wish ENB didnt know so much" thing :/
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
So, I've seen a few attempts at reasoning why the Pthu's built the crypts and shit deep into the Earth, and not sure if its been theorised but:

Are the Chalice Dungeons basically the ancient races building deep into the earth to escape the sky? All these alien bastards are raining down from the moon and cosmos, and what if Pthu Queen and co after realising they were all mostly malevolent shitheads, escape deep into the depths of the planet. Then along come brave adventurer idiots and break the seals and unleash holy hell all over again, worse still creating hybrids and all sort with 'modern' sciences and blood transfusions.

Its hard to determine in the game which Great Ones are real aliens from other dimensions/deep space and which are the result of transcendent experiements from paleblood and infusions here. Oedon, Moon Presence, and Ebrietas seem like the definites, and I'm not sure on Amygdala. Mergo's Wet Nurse is also incredibly vague since its name is its ill-defined role and not a deity.
 
An optimistic interpretation of the true ending: Yes, you become a Great One, but you're a human at heart, so you won't be a dick to humanity.
That's what I'm thinking. Since the moon presence was an old (evil?) great one, maybe you take up the powers and fight for humanity? I heard the moon presence ending was the true ending so I think the waking up ending was just you allowing the veil to come back over your eyes and leaving the hunters dream.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
I've got a grasp on most things but funnily enough, one of the main things I don't understand is the significance of killing Mergo's Wet Nurse...

Who is Mergo and why did killing the Wet Nurse activate the final boss battle? How was that the climax?

The first half of the game steered you towards the Byrgenwerth spider who held all secrets invisible to the eye. The second part points you towards a new born. Which I guess is about that baby The Wet Nurse is protecting.
 
So, I've seen a few attempts at reasoning why the Pthu's built the crypts and shit deep into the Earth, and not sure if its been theorised but:

Are the Chalice Dungeons basically the ancient races building deep into the earth to escape the sky? All these alien bastards are raining down from the moon and cosmos, and what if Pthu Queen and co after realising they were all mostly malevolent shitheads, escape deep into the depths of the planet. Then along come brave adventurer idiots and break the seals and unleash holy hell all over again, worse still creating hybrids and all sort with 'modern' sciences and blood transfusions.

Its hard to determine in the game which Great Ones are real aliens from other dimensions/deep space and which are the result of transcendent experiements from paleblood and infusions here. Oedon, Moon Presence, and Ebrietas seem like the definites, and I'm not sure on Amygdala. Mergo's Wet Nurse is also incredibly vague since its name is its ill-defined role and not a deity.
Maybe they want the main character to kill the moon presence and become a great one to battle the evil great ones??
yea, basically, you'll become the next Great One and help humanity. well, that's what i gathered from the Trophy description.

^ agreed. I never read the trophy descriptions though, guess I need to.


Anyone else agree / have thoughts on this?
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
One other thing I did consider is:

Moon Presence = Oedon
Mergo's Wet Nurse = Mensis (or an unnamed Great One I guess)

Their boss names are curiously round-the-houses, and yet they're arguably the most powerful Great Ones in the game.
 
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