GwyndolinCinder
Member
Why is the queen crying in cainhurst
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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
Celestial Emissary.
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
That can't be since Oedon is a formless Great One
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Yeah, I read enough of that in item descriptions, but that doesn't sit well with me by the end of the game. You trounce all the Great Ones you find that have been all up in human business, but Oedon gets away with it and can still be monkeying around, untouchable?
Then which one is Kos/Kosm. Wet Nurse? Another name for Oedon? One that hasn't bothered to come to Earth at all? Lots of wires to cross because theres not enough info past the point theyre introduced. Definitely need Artorias level DLC to cap off some of the plot threads.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
that can't be all.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Until evidence shows up its fair to assume its just a re-used asset. Hell the Drake Sword from Dark Souls uses a similar model
QuantumZebra
Member
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
IMO Gehrman created the doll while he was still in the real world. I heard some theories that the doll resembles Gehrman's wife, which explain the extra care with it.
Well, I'm going to guess an age/race that is new to humanity and it can be inferred it lives on/doesnt die off instantly? New era moreso than guaranteed happiness.
I am also curious. It can be related to understanding of the cosmic beings or aliens/whatever, but is that actually closer to the "true" perception, or the exact opposite?
QuantumZebra
Member
Well considering intelligence often belies insanity... I'd say insight = closer to reality.
So...the doll is naturally alive, and for some weird reason, we think it's dead? Or does it apply differently in the dream?
I wonder. Thinking about it, the whole game could be you trying to interface with the "Great Ones" through a shared dream. Perhaps insight increases your sync with their version of the world?
More specifically the blood moon, right? You know you're on the right track when the pale moon turns blood red
I thought Paleblood refers to the blood of the Great Ones, as their blood is white, not red. And for those saying "Well, you never get Paleblood," you do, don't you? Kill a great one, absorb it's echoes, level your hero up.
And it makes sense that to "transcend the hunt" you would need to take out the dieties that are running the show.
I don't think Oedon is necessarily the Moon Presence. I think Oedon is basically a more ethereal deity. I can't seem to find the item description right now, but there's definitely something written in Bloodborne claiming that those who worship blood (i.e. those who partake in communion) are unwittingly worshipping Oedon. I also don't think the Moon Presence is the 'top' deity, I think all of the celestial gods have some kind purpose or theme to them, and the Moon Presence's job is to find a suitable human strong enough to lead the Hunt. That's why it chooses you to replace Gehrman if you defeat him, and that's why you're responsible for uplifting humanity "into its next childhood" if you eat Great-baby parts and fuck his shit up, taking his job instead.
What confuses me is why our character knew that he wanted Paleblood in the first place. I think you were being called to Cainhurst Castle, since you were carrying the invitation with you when you were brought into the clinic.
And it makes sense that to "transcend the hunt" you would need to take out the dieties that are running the show.
I don't think Oedon is necessarily the Moon Presence. I think Oedon is basically a more ethereal deity. I can't seem to find the item description right now, but there's definitely something written in Bloodborne claiming that those who worship blood (i.e. those who partake in communion) are unwittingly worshipping Oedon. I also don't think the Moon Presence is the 'top' deity, I think all of the celestial gods have some kind purpose or theme to them, and the Moon Presence's job is to find a suitable human strong enough to lead the Hunt. That's why it chooses you to replace Gehrman if you defeat him, and that's why you're responsible for uplifting humanity "into its next childhood" if you eat Great-baby parts and fuck his shit up, taking his job instead.
What confuses me is why our character knew that he wanted Paleblood in the first place. I think you were being called to Cainhurst Castle, since you were carrying the invitation with you when you were brought into the clinic.
I don't think the doll is made by Gehrman, the doll was made with obsession and love. A person like that wouldn't say "even the doll, should it pleases you" or leave the doll sitting in the mud and grass outside.
A stronger theory would be the doll was made by Gehrmman's apprentice because we find his bone at the abandon workshop grave where the doll once in a while goes to kneel and pay respects in the hunters dream.
A stronger theory would be the doll was made by Gehrmman's apprentice because we find his bone at the abandon workshop grave where the doll once in a while goes to kneel and pay respects in the hunters dream.
That's a pretty good catch. Also you would assume that if Gehrman made the doll, he'd be spending time with it or at least be near it at times, but they're always in completely separate locations. It seems he has no particular interest in it himself, but the doll is clearly harboring memories of who it was made in the image of, because she recognizes the hair ornament that you find in the abandoned workshoplikely an object owned by the woman whose likeness inspired the maker.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Oh this really good. Makes so much sense.
So, really the reason you came in the first place is because you were invited to Cainhurst, and yet it's possible to finish the game without ever going to Cainhurst, or retrieving your lost invitation, or even ever going to the crossroads marker in Hemwick (that area is also optional).
Well, according to the clothes we were brought in with, we've lost all our memories, so yeah. Sounds like an interesting theory.
That was originally on you?
M-maybe Iosefka gives them out to the people who are summoned?
from the "Formless Oedon" rune item description.
Oedon is blood that you use to get from defeating enemies. Also the true ending leech form is in line because the hunter has killed lots of former human for their blood and upgrade his/her capability. Or maybe because the cutscene after defeating Vicar Amelia, one born from blood, that people of Yharnam is Descended from oedon?
Kos or kosm is maybe the moon and he come in the hunter's dream as the moon presence. The one reborn is the child of the moon/kos/kosm? you can see his manifestation from the moon at the start of boss fight.
The Paleblood that you seek at the beginning of the game is the paleblood moon. The Ritual for making paleblood moon is being hidden by Rom the Vaccous Spider. When you killed Rom you make it possible for moon or his follower to perform the ritual that allow moon to have a child. Women like Arianna, Mergo (the name of child, the mother is bride in white gown you see before fight with mergo's wetnurse), and Iosefka is pregnant by moon. Also the ritual make the beast plague much more prominent that turn Eileen the Crow, not pregnant but insane like Father Gascoine, and the outsider in the lamp at central yharnam into a real beast.
Transcend the hunt mean you turn into the great one as evidence in true ending. It requires 3 component to succeed, the paleblood moon itself and the parts of born or unborn child of moon(umbilical cord) and finally defeating the moon presence.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Nothing to suggest he didn't mean what he say though or that he meant one way or the other
HORRORSHØW
Member
very good
Nothing to suggest he didn't mean what he say though or that he meant one way or the other
Why he speaks on lower tone and use "should it please you"?
If the hunter main goal in Yharnam is to go to cainhurst castle, why we don't get the invitation on our inventory the first time or get it the first time in Iosefka's Clinic? Instead we need to go back through backdoor to get it.
Because it fell out of our pocket on the table and since we lost all our memories, we didn't think to pick it up when we got up off the table?
Also that isn't to say that the main goal is to get to Cainhurst Castle. Who knows what could have been the reason we were invited, and it could be that our character is one of many who were summoned. Though my character is a waste of skin–it'd be hard to imagine what business he'd have being summoned to a castle!
To deliberately mislead the player into thinking he meant something pervy when he actually meant something important. Without insight, we assume the wrong thing.
If this is true we can confirm that Gehrman's apprentice is indeed a neckbeard.
I've been wondering... Whatever happens to the NPCs that survive till the end despite what ending you get? If you did everything right you have a few people who live. Do they wake up in the real world and get to keep their memories? Is Gehrman supposed to murder them after he gets you to accept death? Do they just stay in the dream? Do they even really exist?
The guy in charge of the chapel seems to be aware of pasts hunts that have ended, so you'd assume that they're survivable with memories intact.
Speaking of him on a side note, am I the only one who did not expect that the creepy undead-looking dude in the chapel would be the only nice guy who doesn't go insane or die in the entire game? Guy really pulls your heartstrings when you save every decent person who can be saved and bring them to your chapel and asks if you'd let him be your friend when the whole mess is over.
The guy in charge of the chapel seems to be aware of pasts hunts that have ended, so you'd assume that they're survivable with memories intact.
Speaking of him on a side note, am I the only one who did not expect that the creepy undead-looking dude in the chapel would be the only nice guy who doesn't go insane or die in the entire game? Guy really pulls your heartstrings when you save every decent person who can be saved and bring them to your chapel and asks if you'd let him be your friend when the whole mess is over.
That guy is a great NPC. I remember how I did'nt trust him at the start too. The sad part is if you go around killing NPC's yourself and he acts afraid of you. Poor dude.
Tokusatsu fans may realized this but..
All this talk of insights,dreams and delusions makes me realize this is similar to a certain Tokusatsu Sentai show called Akibarangers. The show synopsis is this:
So...the before the blood transfusion and the submit ending = Real world
Delusion world = Probably the plane of the gods/the dream/nightmare/the main game.
Insights = Delusions
Throw in 'gods', beast and maybe a extra dimension plane, more or less you got Bloodborne lol.
All this talk of insights,dreams and delusions makes me realize this is similar to a certain Tokusatsu Sentai show called Akibarangers. The show synopsis is this:
In the show there are two worlds, the real world and the delusion world similar to the real world. The stronger the person's delusions is in the delusion world, it will start affecting the real world.
So...the before the blood transfusion and the submit ending = Real world
Delusion world = Probably the plane of the gods/the dream/nightmare/the main game.
Insights = Delusions
Throw in 'gods', beast and maybe a extra dimension plane, more or less you got Bloodborne lol.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
At some point it seems like EVERY NPCs that you can chat with in Central Yharnam--this is before killing Rom--got suddenly replaced by the same dude speaking the same thing over and over again. The first time talking with him will net you the Tonsil Stone.
As soon as the Tonsil Stone is used and access to places like Library Hall and Nightmare Frontier is gained, everyone back to normal.
I wonder what's up with that?
As soon as the Tonsil Stone is used and access to places like Library Hall and Nightmare Frontier is gained, everyone back to normal.
I wonder what's up with that?
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Well...shit.
Where is this?
Chalice Dungeon probably, I've seen some of them there.
Gun Animal
Member
Does this imply that the Pthumerians are from the era of Demon's Souls? Perhaps the death of the Old One and the disapearance of the Soul Arts prompted the Pthumerians to seek a replacement for the soul arts, or otherwise created an eldritch power vacuum.
It just a nod, nothing else. OddMorsel have said that the world of Demon's Souls and Bloodborne is completely separate. Any similarities between them is deliberately to use similar motifs/myths that commonly found within FromSoft's fantasy game.
Gun Animal
Member
I'd ask who OddMorsel is, but unless he's Miyazaki's Gaf account I doubt I'd stop treating BloodBorne like the narrative continuation of Demon's Souls that it seems to be.
He asked the producer of the game from SCE side personally.
Both worlds are different, and much better to leave it at that. Nothing to be gain for having them in the same universe.
Why would he misled player like that? did he moonlight as Pervert Hunter?
they simply didn't want anyone to miss getting the stone
Mendax
Member
still seems odd as you also get there after the one reborn anyway and then you are of a more appropriate level to be there..
Gun Animal
Member
Oh, he's the OP, lmao. Sounds legit, but there's plenty of precedent for producers and people not directly involved in writing a game's story not being 100% correct. Anyways, It doesn't need to be "canon" (canonicity is a flawed fandom culture idea that needs to be done away with anyways) but BB and DeS are so compatible with eachother that it's difficult for me to think of them as entirely seperate. The biggest thing being that the removal of soul arts (and Souls from the title) immediately struck me as being the inevitable result of DeS's ending. The whole experience, from mechanics to lore to aesthetics, seems like it stemmed from the thought of "what would happen after Demon's Souls?"
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
"Umbasa" being removed from Father Gascgoine's repertoire in the final game was interesting. When it was found in the alpha, the link theories went into obvious overdrive.
I could see The Old One from Demon's being a Great One definitely.
I could see The Old One from Demon's being a Great One definitely.
yea, someone pointed that out. nice easter egg. hohoho
Ok, I'm on team Laurence is the skull, but I was thinking about something while taking a shower, so please, entertain me.
What if Laurence is the Moon Presence?
We know from the Lecture Building 2nd Floor lore notes that Laurence beckoned the "nameless moon presence", and another note in the same room says "three third cords". When you consume three third cords, you not only get an audience with this nameless moon presence, but you have a chance to kill it and become a great one yourself. What if you just become a new nameless moon presence?
Laurence beckoned the moon presence, and was never mentioned again after this, right?
Gehrman's dialogue in his sleep, saying "Oh, Laurence, what's taking you so long", that the current theory I follow explains by him just not knowing that Laurence is dead because he's trapped in the dream (and it makes for such a powerful and sad line, I love it) could also be explained by Gehrman not calling for Laurence, the scholar, but Laurence, the nameless moon presence.
What if Laurence is the Moon Presence?
We know from the Lecture Building 2nd Floor lore notes that Laurence beckoned the "nameless moon presence", and another note in the same room says "three third cords". When you consume three third cords, you not only get an audience with this nameless moon presence, but you have a chance to kill it and become a great one yourself. What if you just become a new nameless moon presence?
Laurence beckoned the moon presence, and was never mentioned again after this, right?
Gehrman's dialogue in his sleep, saying "Oh, Laurence, what's taking you so long", that the current theory I follow explains by him just not knowing that Laurence is dead because he's trapped in the dream (and it makes for such a powerful and sad line, I love it) could also be explained by Gehrman not calling for Laurence, the scholar, but Laurence, the nameless moon presence.