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[Orochinagis]

You know maybe the Celestial Emissary was one of the few people who could actually communicate with Eberitas and that's why they got that role of being the Emissary.

Those flowers, I think those were harvested from the other dead Rom species being dead in Ebritas room, meanwhile Ebrietas is feeding of his flowers. Using humans to be transformed into Emissaries using lofseka works to talk with Ebrietas

Also interesting that the NPC outside Willem's door is a Choir hunter. Now, what would a Choir hunter be doing "guarding" Willem? Making sure no one gets to him. Why?

Because Rom, they didnt want anyone take Rom and use him against the church, the choir members were using Willem work but in their own way.

That was their biggest secret about the discovery of the blood and since Willem mens were already mad or being transformed the choir make sure to send key hunters to protect vital areas of Yharman something like the Gwyn knights in Dark souls 1 or the Heiders Knights in Dark Souls 2

 

[robo_qwop]

Has anyone discussed the relation between the three appearances of Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen?

1.After Rom
2.Before Wet Nurse
3.Bottom of Loran Chalice Dungeon

What's the consensus on why this occurs?

 

[Coconut]

Has anyone discussed the relation between the three appearances of Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen?

1.After Rom
2.Before Wet Nurse
3.Bottom of Loran Chalice Dungeon

What's the consensus on why this occurs?

Space/other dimension magic aka Aliens, I believe is the consensus on why this happens.

 

[ExVicis]

Has anyone discussed the relation between the three appearances of Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen?

1.After Rom
2.Before Wet Nurse
3.Bottom of Loran Chalice Dungeon

What's the consensus on why this occurs?

1. That's when you're first made aware of Mergo who is theorized to be her child and then after everywhere you hear Mergo's cries.
2. Mergo's the baby the Wet Nurse is taking care of.
3. No idea here, I'm not that far in Chalice Dungeons yet.

 

[Karsticles]

Has anyone tried the Beast Claws, maxing the bar, etc., while at 0 insight? If insight = kin, and beasts oppose kin, this might be important...

 

[robo_qwop]

1. That's when you're first made aware of Mergo who is theorized to be her child and then after everywhere you hear Mergo's cries.
2. Mergo's the baby the Wet Nurse is taking care of.
3. No idea here, I'm not that far in Chalice Dungeons yet.

Interesting. Thanks. So is this baby supposed to be a new great one? One to rival Moon Presence? Or a being similar to what happens to you in the true ending?

 

[burgerdog]

1. That's when you're first made aware of Mergo who is theorized to be her child and then after everywhere you hear Mergo's cries.
2. Mergo's the baby the Wet Nurse is taking care of.
3. No idea here, I'm not that far in Chalice Dungeons yet.

I'm still hearing the baby crying in ng+ at the very beginning of the game.

 

[Gbraga]

Well then it's weird that the choir is interested in the Alien guys or interested in Iosefkas interactions with them in some way? Just another big fat chunk of questions.

Iosefka is definitely more important than people have been giving her credit for. Judging by the Iosefka Blood Vial in Nightmare of Mensis, I mean.

 

[ElFly]

I assumed Ebrietas and the Celestial Emissary were a different type of alien/god from the great ones, or a particular subset, a more ...cosmic...subset.

Mostly cause in the Lovecraftian mythos there were two groups of monstrous gods, the outer gods and the great old ones,with the former being more cosmic and abstract, and the later being more horrific but with actual shapes.

That would account for Ebrietas' blood causing frenzy.

Also if Ebrietas and her progenitor are more powerful, it would account for her father giving eyes to Rom and making him a spider, while the rest of the great ones do not directly transform people into great ones, they have to resort to blood ministration.

 

[Coconut]

Iosefka is definitely more important than people have been giving her credit for. Judging by the Iosefka Blood Vial in Nightmare of Mensis, I mean.

Part of me has a hard time buying that she was turned into one of those creatures. I mean something having a vile of blood is weird like why would she just keep a vile of blood on her person even after being turned into an alien?

 

[theSlacker]

Part of me has a hard time buying that she was turned into one of those creatures. I mean something having a vile of blood is weird like why would she just keep a vile of blood on her person even after being turned into an alien?

The same reason the other people that you send their drop things relating to them when you kill the blue thing they get turned into. Like Arianna's Shoes. Or the Beast rune.

 

[Uthred]

I assumed Ebrietas and the Celestial Emissary were a different type of alien/god from the great ones, or a particular subset, a more ...cosmic...subset.

Mostly cause in the Lovecraftian mythos there were two groups of monstrous gods, the outer gods and the great old ones,with the former being more cosmic and abstract, and the later being more horrific but with actual shapes.

That would account for Ebrietas' blood causing frenzy.

Also if Ebrietas and his progenitor are more powerful, it would account for his father giving eyes to Rom and making him a spider, while the rest of the great ones do not directly transform people into great ones, they have to resort to blood ministration.

I think Kos is certainly set up to be BB's equivalent of an Outer God but all the Great Ones you punch in the face feel much more akin to BB's Great Old Ones. I think like the Great Old Ones though they arent all the same "species" and have different origins.

 

[Coconut]

The same reason the other people that you send their drop things relating to them when you kill the blue thing they get turned into. Like Arianna's Shoes. Or the Beast rune.

I know it's just weird.

 

[WGMBY]

I think Kos is certainly set up to be BB's equivalent of an Outer God but all the Great Ones you punch in the face feel much more akin to BB's Great Old Ones. I think like the Great Old Ones though they arent all the same "species" and have different origins.

Perhaps Odeon is one of those Outer Gods as well?

There does seem to be a split in the bosses referred to as "Great Ones". Rom, Amygdala, and the Moon Presence are fought on different planes from the "real" world, Which makes me think they're "higher" Great Ones than Celestial Emissary or the Wet Nurse.

Ebreitas could be either with this, since she appears in the "real world" on one hand, but seems to be quite high in importance to the church on the other hand

 

[Uthred]

Perhaps Odeon is one of those Outer Gods as well?

There does seem to be a split in the bosses referred to as "Great Ones". Rom, Amygdala, and the Moon Presence are fought on different planes from the "real" world, Which makes me think they're "higher" Great Ones than Celestial Emissary or the Wet Nurse.

Ebreitas could be either with this, since she appears in the "real world" on one hand, but seems to be quite high in importance to the church on the other hand

I would have thought Rom, considering he was "uplifted" would be a "low tier" Great One, if the Great Ones are alien to the main dimension world than perhaps only the more powerful ones can exist in it whereas the weaker ones need the "airlock" of their own pocket dimension? I think you can look at it either way

 

[chogidogs]

Interesting. Thanks. So is this baby supposed to be a new great one? One to rival Moon Presence? Or a being similar to what happens to you in the true ending?

The reddit theory I like best is that none of the OG old ones like each other and the Moon Presence uses Gherman to find Hunters strong enough to take care of Mergo before it gets stronger than all of them.

 

[Ryu Elessar]

Has anyone discussed the relation between the three appearances of Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen?

1.After Rom
2.Before Wet Nurse
3.Bottom of Loran Chalice Dungeon

What's the consensus on why this occurs?

Also, I noticed that if you return to where Yharnam is after you defeat Wet Nurse she bows to you and then disappears.

 

[Deified Data]

I would have thought Rom, considering he was "uplifted" would be a "low tier" Great One, if the Great Ones are alien to the main dimension world than perhaps only the more powerful ones can exist in it whereas the weaker ones need the "airlock" of their own pocket dimension? I think you can look at it either way

Rom is definitely a "lesser"...something, I hesitate to even call him a Great One. He's an example of a human probably gaining too much insight and losing himself. There's a Rom corpse on the altar in Ebrietas's boss chamber, showing that such creatures are hardly unique.

 

[Orochinagis]

Rom is definitely a "lesser"...something, I hesitate to even call him a Great One. He's an example of a human probably gaining too much insight and losing himself. There's a Rom corpse on the altar in Ebrietas's boss chamber, showing that such creatures are hardly unique.

Dont forget he gives you a familiar blood instead of a great one blood, implying he is a lesser creature and not really a great one class, Ebritas I believe she is in higher rank but not really a Great one still but a developed lesser one from the great one branch

 

[Ferr986]

Couldn't Kos (or like some say, Kosm) be just the Mother Brain?
Micolash says to Kos "place eyes on our brains". Well, shit is a Brain with eyes, observing everything above the tower (like the Eye of Sauron). And i'ts a Great Old too. Also, the tower is full of mini eyes everywhere (walls, etc...)

 

[Branson]

Wait. So are those things hanging from the buildings in the unseen village Aliens? I'm not farther than that after Rom. Just curious.

 

[Yurt]

Perhaps Odeon is one of those Outer Gods as well?

There does seem to be a split in the bosses referred to as "Great Ones". Rom, Amygdala, and the Moon Presence are fought on different planes from the "real" world, Which makes me think they're "higher" Great Ones than Celestial Emissary or the Wet Nurse.

Ebreitas could be either with this, since she appears in the "real world" on one hand, but seems to be quite high in importance to the church on the other hand

Great point this

 

[Deified Data]

Wait. So are those things hanging from the buildings in the unseen village Aliens? I'm not farther than that after Rom. Just curious.

They're definitely alien to Yarnham, but they're not from outer space.

 

[Coconut]

They're definitely alien to Yarnham, but they're not from outer space.

Or are they?

 

[Kurtofan]

Why does killing the Blood Starving Beast unlock the way to the workshop?

 

[Deified Data]

Why does killing the Blood Starving Beast unlock the way to the workshop?

I've wondered this as well, it seems pretty arbitrary.

Unless the door opened for the chalice?

 

[ExVicis]

Dont forget he gives you a familiar blood instead of a great one blood, implying he is a lesser creature and not really a great one class, Ebritas I believe she is in higher rank but not really a Great one still but a developed lesser one from the great one branch

Well if the achievements are what to go by for the interpretation of the true ending then it's safe to say we can use the fact that achievements refer to both Ebrietas and Rom as Great Ones as basically the confirmation we need that they are ones.

 

[Gbraga]

I've wondered this as well, it seems pretty arbitrary.

Unless the door opened for the chalice?

Nah, if that was the case, you wouldn't need to kill BSB on NG+, and you do.

 

[Noray]

Why does killing the Blood Starving Beast unlock the way to the workshop?

I'm under the impression it's arbitrary, and given that ENB complained about this very thing and its arbitrary nature in one of his video, that's what I'm gonna go with.

 

[Deified Data]

Nah, if that was the case, you wouldn't need to kill BSB on NG+, and you do.

I'm under the impression it's arbitrary, and given that ENB complained about this very thing and its arbitrary nature in one of his video, that's what I'm gonna go with.

Guess so. That's a shame. BB is largely devoid of this kind of weird design. How hard would it have been to have it drop a key?

 

[Coconut]

I'm under the impression it's arbitrary, and given that ENB complained about this very thing and its arbitrary nature in one of his video, that's what I'm gonna go with.

How about we all just pretend that there is a pressure plate the blood starved beast is sitting on in the good chalice place?

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Part of me has a hard time buying that she was turned into one of those creatures. I mean something having a vile of blood is weird like why would she just keep a vile of blood on her person even after being turned into an alien?

It seems super obvious that there is an imposter behind the door once it becomes a "safe area", given the demeanor and the way 'she' addresses you at that point. Given that you pick up stuff related to people you send there from the blue creatures, it makes sense that she was the first to turn.

She was so hesitant to open her doors when you first meet her. Why in the middle of it all would she suddenly want to open them up for everyone that sought shelter?

 

[hutna]

Oh wow I never made that connection. I never remember when exactly NPCs get new dialogue. Still have no idea why Willem wants you to kill Rom though (or even if he does).

Also interesting that the NPC outside Willem's door is a Choir hunter. Now, what would a Choir hunter be doing "guarding" Willem? Making sure no one gets to him. Why?

Funny enough when I fought this hunter I took the fight outside where Willem is (not knowing he was there). The hunter killed Wilem within seconds with gunshots. So if he is a bodyguard he wasn't very good at it in my character's story.

 

[Coconut]

It seems super obvious that there is an imposter behind the door once it becomes a "safe area", given the demeanor and the way 'she' addresses you at that point. Given that you pick up stuff related to people you send there from the blue creatures, it makes sense that she was the first to turn.

She was so hesitant to open her doors when you first meet her. Why in the middle of it all would she suddenly want to open them up for everyone that sought shelter?

I'm saying that I feel more like she was maybe abducted rather than transformed. I'd also like to point out that there is an alien on a table that looks like it is being examined while dead. If she can turn people into those creatures why kill one and cut it open and leave it there and why just one and why isn't that pit in the back of the clinic filled with more than just clearly human dead bodies wouldn't their also be failed transformations among those dead bodies? I mean I know I'm wrong, but things also aren't adding up to exactly that she turned into one of those creatures and that's it.

 

[Gbraga]

Anyone tried Make Contact on Rom on NG+?

 

[theSlacker]

It seems super obvious that there is an imposter behind the door once it becomes a "safe area", given the demeanor and the way 'she' addresses you at that point. Given that you pick up stuff related to people you send there from the blue creatures, it makes sense that she was the first to turn.

She was so hesitant to open her doors when you first meet her. Why in the middle of it all would she suddenly want to open them up for everyone that sought shelter?

She didn't really seem to change before and after tbh. You are a hunter and a foreigner as to why I would have assumed she wouldn't open it for just you. The fact that you could actually see what happened to the people in the church safe area and couldn't in that one was why I was hesitant about it, not because she seemed odd. She dose sound a bit odd after sending her one iirc, but it is too late then.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I wonder how the Choir changed blood ministration to make it change you into kin rather than beasts. The Celestial Mobs have green blood!

Also, just realized "Rom" is the word for a man of the Romani (Gypsi) people. Pretty clever lol.

 

[Mindlog]

My encounter with the last boss.
Would you care to dance?
What the hell is that?
Shake on it.

This leads me to believe that in NG+++ there is a BBQ ending where we can just chill, drink some beer, some some pork and forget about all the stupid blood ministration business.

 

[Orochinagis]

They're definitely alien to Yarnham, but they're not from outer space.

They look pretty alien instead of being from another realm or phase, they cant generate portals or alter matter.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Yeah, it doesn't even matter either way. "The Sky and the Cosmos are one" seems to indicate outer space, while the dreams seem to indicate different realms. But it really doesn't matter at all.

 

[140.85]

My encounter with the last boss.
Would you care to dance?
What the hell is that?
Shake on it.

Jeez, this game is beautiful...

 

[Orochinagis]

Yeah, it doesn't even matter either way. "The Sky and the Cosmos are one" seems to indicate outer space, while the dreams seem to indicate different realms. But it really doesn't matter at all.

The eyes Mason, what do they mean!

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

She didn't really seem to change before and after tbh. You are a hunter and a foreigner as to why I would have assumed she wouldn't open it for just you. The fact that you could actually see what happened to the people in the church safe area and couldn't in that one was why I was hesitant about it, not because she seemed odd. She dose sound a bit odd after sending her one iirc, but it is too late then.

Wrong. As ENB pointed out in his videos:

This is true Iosefka when you first meet her.Watch 12:42-14:00 here and watch her hidden dialogue at 3:06-3:58 here

And this is the imposter after you beat Father G. Watch how there're changes at 29:45-31:47 here

 

[140.85]

They're definitely alien to Yarnham, but they're not from outer space.

Yeah, I don't think of them as aliens in the sense that the word is usually used. In the same way I wouldn't consider Cthulu an alien. They aren't simply another species from another planet or something. They're transdimensional beings whose very existence breaks the unaltered human mind. hence their desire to become flesh on the human plane.

 

[Kurtofan]

Maybe the presence of the BSB in the church was an existential failure for the church that kept the Healing Workshop inaccessible?

A metaphorical pressure plate, if you will

 

[Coconut]

Going over this lore reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons when Homer and Grandpa Simpson are selling a libido increasing tonic and the kids are trying to figure out why there parents are coming home early and kicking them out of the house to have sex. Eventually they show a clip of the kids in Bart's tree house talking about how aliens have turned the parents into reverse vampires. If you have that clip of Mulhouse putting it altogether could you post it here? I think it fits our discussion to the T.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Yeah, I don't think of them as aliens in the sense that the word is usually used. In the same way I wouldn't consider Cthulu an alien. They aren't simply another species from another planet or something. They're transdimensional beings whose very existence breaks the unaltered human mind. hence their desire to become flesh on the human plane.

They're totally from outer space too though. The slugs pull in stuff from different reaches of space, as evidenced by the Augur of Ebrietas (pulls from the Cathedral) and A Call Beyond (way outer space). So it stands to reason that creatures like Ebrietas (and I guess you could assume Kos too?) actually come from space. It's "the sky and cosmos are one" not "dreams and the cosmos are one".

 

[140.85]

They're totally from outer space too though. The slugs pull in stuff from different reaches of space, as evidenced by the Augur of Ebrietas (pulls from the Cathedral) and A Call Beyond (way outer space). So it stands to reason that creatures like Ebrietas (and I guess you could assume Kos too?) actually come from space. It's "the sky and cosmos are one" not "dreams and the cosmos are one".

Well I'm just saying that just because they came from space doesn't necessarily mean it's a life form that evolved on some other planet and then came here. They were just off being other-worldly beings somewhere else before all this Yarnham/Pthumemerian stuff.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Well I'm just saying that just because they came from space doesn't necessarily mean it's a life form that evolved on some other planet and then came here. They were just off being other-worldly beings somewhere else before all this Yarnham/Pthumemerian stuff.

I guess that's possible haha. No reason to really think that as far as Ebrietas is concerned though.

 

[theSlacker]

Wrong. As ENB pointed out in his videos:

This is true Iosefka when you first meet her.Watch 12:42-14:00 here and watch her hidden dialogue at 3:06-3:58 here

And this is the imposter after you beat Father G. Watch how there're changes at 29:45-31:47 here

Honestly I really didn't notice the change when I played and when I watched his video about it I assumed he was able to notice it so fast because of inside information. It just didn't seem like a big change to me other then the weapon in the hand. Now I'm not claiming that she didn't change, as that is clear, but if it was just on that dialog and not finding the inside later/seeing the drops of the blue guys I wouldn't have noticed.

This is a separate matter but I also really don't see the relevance in the change either, or what it added to the character. Until/unless we find out any more information on her it doesn't really matter that she was taken over by an imposter instead of it just being her that was experimenting on people sent to her and her becoming pregnant. What I mean is that everything the imposter did story wise could have just been done by the real doctor with no imposter involved and it would have not changed anything about the story because the actual real doctor was so insignificant and there seems to be no reason why the imposter needed to imitate someone to do what they did. Unless, like I mentioned, there is something we are missing about the characters.