Support NeoGAF

[Deified Data]

Since when does Vaati care about fact? He romanticises his lore and is a bit in love with the sound of his own voice. He made up so much random character storylines in DS1 and especially DS2.

I won't speak on Vaati one way or the other, but these games have always been about filling in the blanks with our imagination - as another poster said that becomes troublesome when people present a single interpretation as fact, but it's harmless in and of itself.

 

[Fisty]

A Gaffer theorized that the The One Reborn was a failed attempt at creating a Great One which I found interesting. kinda explains why it's so fucked up.

Yeah seemed like maybe a bunch of gore and viscera from dead Yharnam-ites, their Great One blood reforming into a new thing.

As for Mensis/Micolash, what is that whole dynamic? Was Mensis the professor and Micolash the assistant that went nuts when researching the Great Ones? Im not really sure how Micolash fits into that whole scenario. Maybe he killed Mensis and created the Nightmare so that a new Great One could be birthed? Seems weird that Mergo would be doing her thing in a dream... but if dreams are just alternate dimensions, it could make sense for safety's sake

 

[MegaSackman]

A Gaffer theorized that the The One Reborn was a failed attempt at creating a Great One which I found interesting. kinda explains why it's so fucked up.

To me is an incomplete form of a former Great One, we just didn't let him to finish his transformation or whatever. I mean, the name implies that he was someone/thing once.

 

[ExVicis]

Yeah seemed like maybe a bunch of gore and viscera from dead Yharnam-ites, their Great One blood reforming into a new thing.

As for Mensis/Micolash, what is that whole dynamic? Was Mensis the professor and Micolash the assistant that went nuts when researching the Great Ones? Im not really sure how Micolash fits into that whole scenario. Maybe he killed Mensis and created the Nightmare so that a new Great One could be birthed? Seems weird that Mergo would be doing her thing in a dream... but if dreams are just alternate dimensions, it could make sense for safety's sake

Mensis I think is just an organization I think though that runs the dream and has all those cages on people's heads. They're the ones that founded Yahar'gul the Unseen Village.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Yeah that VaatiVidya gets bad real fast as soon as you get to the cleric beasts. Beasts getting more exaggerated with insight don't make no sense, because insight does the opposite of beasthood.

Do pungent cocktails attract alien-like enemies?

 

[ExVicis]

Yeah that VaatiVidya gets bad real fast as soon as you get to the cleric beasts. Beasts getting more exaggerated with insight don't make no sense, because insight does the opposite of beasthood.

Do pungent cocktails attract alien-like enemies?

It doesn't attract the Mushroom head aliens, that's all I know.

Edit: Just tested on an Zoidberg the Insight Sucker too. Didn't even flinch.

 

[Uthred]

Yeah that VaatiVidya gets bad real fast as soon as you get to the cleric beasts. Beasts getting more exaggerated with insight don't make no sense, because insight does the opposite of beasthood.

Do pungent cocktails attract alien-like enemies?

Pungent blood cocktails? No only beasts. Speculation is speculation but that video felt like it strayed a bit too much into fan fiction territory, which makes it easier to digest I suppose but itsnt a format I'm fond of

 

[LiK]

It doesn't attract the Mushroom head aliens, that's all I know.

oh wow, cool.

 

[Beelzebufo]

It doesn't attract the Mushroom head aliens, that's all I know.

Gotcha. So that pretty much strengthens the blood = beasthood connection, which I had forgotten about.

And blood gets rid of frenzy, and spending insight increases beasthood and increases frenzy resistance

I guess Oedon just like counteracts some of the other Great Ones? Maybe he's the opposite of Kos (or some say Kosm), who grants eyes?

 

[Uthred]

Gotcha. So that pretty much strengthens the blood = beasthood connection, which I had forgotten about.

And blood gets rid of frenzy, and spending insight increases beasthood and increases frenzy resistance

I guess Oedon just like counteracts some of the other Great Ones? Maybe he's the opposite of Kos (or some say Kosm), who grants eyes?

While Oedon's sacrament/devotion may be blood I dont know if I'd necessarily conflate that with bloods ties to Beasthood. I think both could be explained by the echoes in the blood. Given the popularity of blood ministration everyone in Yharnam will have some trace of "different" blood in them. Oedon is formless but his essence, his echoes, is in the blood and thats why its his sacrament. On the other hand there is also a sizeable portion of human blood involved, I think its the echoes from this blood, the primal atavistic instintual nature of humans, that counteracts insight (and when it reaches too high a concentration is responsible for the scourge of beasts/ashen plague).

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

huh, i'd expected him to make a video after the official guide is out. cuz i'm sure the guide will clarify a lot of theories that are floating around right now.

Vaati doesn't really use evidence, he just takes one thing extremely out of context and uses it to make up the saddest possible story ever.

Before you know it he'll announce Father Gascoigne is actually your father and how its really sad you have to kill your father, when he doesn't even remember you, because hes now such a beast.
His evidence? The boss is called "Father...." in the boss title text, and since this text is meant to inform the player of the bosses name, the game is quite clearly implying its your father.

 

[MegaSackman]

Vaati doesn't really use evidence, he just takes one thing extremely out of context and uses it to make up the saddest possible story ever.

Before you know it he'll announce Father Gascoigne is actually your father and how its really sad you have to kill your father, when he doesn't even remember you, because hes now such a beast.
His evidence? The boss is called "Father...." in the boss title text, and since this text is meant to inform the player of the bosses name, the game is quite clearly implying its your father.

To me it's called Father because it's some kind of priest.

 

[Deified Data]

Yeah seemed like maybe a bunch of gore and viscera from dead Yharnam-ites, their Great One blood reforming into a new thing.

As for Mensis/Micolash, what is that whole dynamic? Was Mensis the professor and Micolash the assistant that went nuts when researching the Great Ones? Im not really sure how Micolash fits into that whole scenario. Maybe he killed Mensis and created the Nightmare so that a new Great One could be birthed? Seems weird that Mergo would be doing her thing in a dream... but if dreams are just alternate dimensions, it could make sense for safety's sake

I think you're on the right track. I think Great Ones have power in dreams, and reach out to men through their dreams. I don't think they're necessarily from people's dreams so much as a parallel plane that happens to rub up against wherever the human mind goes when it dreams.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Vaati doesn't really use evidence, he just takes one thing extremely out of context and uses it to make up the saddest possible story ever.

Before you know it he'll announce Father Gascoigne is actually your father and how its really sad you have to kill your father, when he doesn't even remember you, because hes now such a beast.
His evidence? The boss is called "Father...." in the boss title text, and since this text is meant to inform the player of the bosses name, the game is quite clearly implying its your father.

That... Litereally doesn't make sense in the context of all the other evidence you can gather relating to him. I don't think anyone could even begin to propose that.

To me it's called Father because it's some kind of priest.

Isn't there some bit of story in his equipment that says the title is from a faraway land, as the position doesn't exist in the Healing Church?

 

[Coconut]

Vaati doesn't really use evidence, he just takes one thing extremely out of context and uses it to make up the saddest possible story ever.

Before you know it he'll announce Father Gascoigne is actually your father and how its really sad you have to kill your father, when he doesn't even remember you, because hes now such a beast.
His evidence? The boss is called "Father...." in the boss title text, and since this text is meant to inform the player of the bosses name, the game is quite clearly implying its your father.

Did vaati poop on you once or something?

 

[LiK]

lol, i guess some guys here really dislike Vaati. i'm just thinking that once the guide comes out and refutes some of his theories, he's gonna need to make some follow-up video to correct the previous ones. seems like extra work altho he's getting views so i guess he doesn't care.

 

[Yurt]

Not at all. The "you are dreaming" theory is more like a meta-story, where the events inside the dream constitute an "inner story" that can have meaning and gravity in its own right independent from the meta-story. In fact, I believe the dream theory has much more potential for interpretation and symbolism than a more straight-forward interpretation of the story would allow.

fair enough.

But isn't it better if the world is really THAT fucked up now?

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Isn't there some bit of story in his equipment that says the title is from a faraway land, as the position doesn't exist in the Healing Church?

I think it's just a very unsubtle way of making sure everyone gets the relationship between Gascoigne and the little girl to ensure maximum feels.

 

[Fisty]

I think you're on the right track. I think Great Ones have power in dreams, and reach out to men through their dreams. I don't think they're necessarily from people's dreams so much as a parallel plane that happens to rub up against wherever the human mind goes when it dreams.

True enough. So if Micolash is the creator of the dream, the dimension that the will of the Mensis group is carried out in, is it explicitly stated or hinted that the dream takes place in the same era/time period as the rest of the game? Im trying to poke at a theory i have that the Hunter you play as is the baby in the dream... the time travel thing happened in Dark so i thought it wouldnt be out of the question. Either that or the Hunter could be an experiment by Iosefka to become the next Great One by taking the cords and joining with Moon Presence, which would explain why you wake up where you do in the beginning with little to no backstory, like Bioshock

 

[Defuser]

About the Ludwig = Cleric Beast thing. Hmm, I'm not entirely convinced.

Noticing the beast comes down from the Cathedral Ward was very cool, as well as making the natural conclusion that Ludwig was the hunter chief, but the timeline wouldn't fit, right?

Many things in the game implies it's been generations since the hunts first started, and Ludwig was the first Healing Church hunter, according to his Holy Blade.

There are many things that hint at this happening for generations, like, for example, the Byrgenwerth keepers indicated by Willem, that are both dead and bones now, Micolash (assuming we interact with Micolash to enter the Nightmare of Mensis) being nothing more than a mummy, Laurence (assuming he's the skull) being long gone, Gehrman's apprentice being just an old bone, and, I guess more importantly, Henryk and Gascoigne's partnership, which is already a thing of the past, being cited as the cause for Henryk's tragically long life. I don't think Gascoigne was a really high ranked member of the Healing Church, and if he hunted for many years before dropping off and raising his family, it's hard to believe Ludwig would still be alive. The Cleric Beast is most definitely the Hunter Chief, but after Ludwig's passing, a new Hunter Chief would be chosen, it's logical.

If only the Cleric Beast's drop also got you the Ludwig's Holy Blade... But as it is, I feel like Ludwig is more likely to be the Old Hunter Bone than the Cleric Beast. He is the first healing church hunter, but we know for a fact that Gehrman is actually the first hunter, so, in other words, came before the healing church hunters. He knows Laurence, if we're assuming Laurence founded the Healing Church, it would make sense that he would train Ludwig, who then became the first Healing Church hunter.

But the most likely explanation is a Ludwig of the First Hunt DLC

Thats because the line

"Ludwig was the first of many Healing Church hunters to come, many of Whom were clerics."

Vaati immediately assumes Ludwig = Cleric while disregarding the

first of many Healing Church hunters to come, many of Whom were clerics.

Even the Radiant Sword Hunter badge proves a longass time have pass by since Ludwig

The radiant sword indicates the heirs to the will of Ludwig.

These hunters, also known as Holy Blades, are what remains of an ancient line of heroes that date back to a very early age of honour and chivalry.

lol, i guess some guys here really dislike Vaati. i'm just thinking that once the guide comes out and refutes some of his theories, he's gonna need to make some follow-up video to correct the previous ones. seems like extra work altho he's getting views so i guess he doesn't care.

Or you can watch ENB because he co-wrote the guide? His speculation and theories are much better than Vaati because ENB actually research? Not to mention ENB can read Japanese so he can cross check references on the Japanese text.

 

[Deified Data]

The two things I can comment on about your statement. Good catch with noticing it was probably the messengers that "take/save" you. Just as when you hear the Doll say "So you have found a hunter" right after it she is probably talking to the messengers. What that means is still beyond me though.

The "Holy Medium" however has some other text relating to it. Alfred mentions that the "holy medium" is venerated in the grand cathedral in one of his topics you can ask him about. I also believe he refers to it as that, "the holy medium" not "a" or some other terminology. The main thing that has a place of worship or reverence in the grand cathedral is the weird beast skull that is on the alter, that some people think is Laurence's. That same skull can be seen in the opening cut scene of the game, if you leave your game running at the start screen for long enough, and it appears to be in some sort of "chalice dungeon" looking area when it is shown, and is being found by some hunter who looks like he is about to be killed.

Things we know about the healing church: It was founded after a Byrgenwerth scholar found "something" in the labyrinth under Yharnam, which is suppose to be the various chalice dungeons. I still don't know what this all means though since it doesn't explain why we see a flashback to Laurence and Willem when touching the skull, other then how the pendent's description tells us to do so to see the cautionary adage that the pendent is suppose to represent to Vicar's of the healing church. If that skull is Laurence's skull then it wouldn't be the "holy medium" that was found and lead to blood healing since Laurence was alive in a world with blood healing. If it isn't Laurence's skull then what is the deal with the flashback? Just don't know.

I think you're spot-on about the skull belonging to Laurence - touching it initiates a flashback between him and Willem, and the latter is already accounted for. Speaking of, has anyone accounted for the weirdness of Laurence, the shady man who seemed to be ass-deep in Great One lore, becoming a beast instead of a gibbering horror? He was the first to make contact with the Moon Presence, according to a snippet in the Lecture Hall, so I doubt he was found wanting in his level of Insight...

I firmly believe now that the holy medium was an infant Ebreitas, who was returned to Yarnham when still small enough to move, who was nourished by the Choir that formed around her and who's blood became the basis of blood ministration.

 

[LiK]

ENB also theorizes that the skull is Laurence. I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Auctopus]

ENB also theorizes that the skull is Laurence. I'm inclined to agree.

Yeah, that definitely makes sense.

 

[Noray]

I actually hope the guide doesn't clarify shit (though we already know it has "official" names for all of the enemies, thanks to ENB) because the work is the work and should speak for itself, and needing an outside source to supplement in order to make sense of it is weak. I think some of y'all are expecting too much from it anyway.

 

[Mermandala]

Church of Vaati lore followers will skulk around with a high beasthood which is currently largely useless and ENB folks get massive insight into the lore and cosmic tentacles (well not really) so it's all good really.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I think you're spot-on about the skull belonging to Laurence - touching it initiates a flashback between him and Willem, and the latter is already accounted for. Speaking of, has anyone accounted for the weirdness of Laurence, the shady man who seemed to be ass-deep in Great One lore, becoming a beast instead of a gibbering horror? He was the first to make contact with the Moon Presence, according to a snippet in the Lecture Hall, so I doubt he was found wanting in his level of Insight...

I firmly believe now that the holy medium was an infant Ebreitas, who was returned to Yarnham when still small enough to move, who was nourished by the Choir that formed around her and who's blood became the basis of blood ministration.

Nah. The reason Laurence turned into a beast is because he started incorporating blood into everything. The old blood (probably from Loran or some shit) is what allows people to handle studying the Great Ones (communion) because it acts as a sedative, but also leads to addiction and beasthood, which is why Willem didn't want to use it in the first place.

The purpose of blood ministration is mainly to allow humans humans to talk with Great Ones without frenzying, because blood brings back that instinct.

I guess Laurence went too far.

Once Ebreitas and the Choir gets into the picture is I think when you start seeing weird shit like Celestial Emmissary arise thru blood ministration. Although I suppose it could be argued findig Ebreitas was what started everything in the first place?

 

[LiK]

I actually hope the guide doesn't clarify shit (though we already know it has "official" names for all of the enemies, thanks to ENB) because the work is the work and should speak for itself, and needing an outside source to supplement in order to make sense of it is weak. I think some of y'all are expecting too much from it anyway.

well, if it's anything like the DkS2 guide, it will at least clarify the NPCs and enemies more clearly. the rest can be speculation with the main story so it doesn't ruin it. i find it makes the NPCs even more fascinating when we know who they are.

 

[Coconut]

I actually hope the guide doesn't clarify shit (though we already know it has "official" names for all of the enemies, thanks to ENB) because the work is the work and should speak for itself, and needing an outside source to supplement in order to make sense of it is weak. I think some of y'all are expecting too much from it anyway.

Honestly the fact that info is locked away in the guide is really annoying.

 

[theSlacker]

I think you're spot-on about the skull belonging to Laurence - touching it initiates a flashback between him and Willem, and the latter is already accounted for. Speaking of, has anyone accounted for the weirdness of Laurence, the shady man who seemed to be ass-deep in Great One lore, becoming a beast instead of a gibbering horror? He was the first to make contact with the Moon Presence, according to a snippet in the Lecture Hall, so I doubt he was found wanting in his level of Insight...

I firmly believe now that the holy medium was an infant Ebreitas, who was returned to Yarnham when still small enough to move, who was nourished by the Choir that formed around her and who's blood became the basis of blood ministration.

People may be making too much about the difference between "beasts" and "horrors". I mean we see a Vicar, one of the highest ranking people of the church, turn into a beast right in front of us. Got me though.

ENB also theorizes that the skull is Laurence. I'm inclined to agree.

Yes, it seems more and more likly. I am just curious about it's (the skull's) place in the start menu cutscene though. It looks to have a place of reference in what looks like a chalice dungeon/underground labyrinth room in it. Can anyone make out what beast it was that attacks the hunter that finds the skull in that cutscene?

Of course maybe that cutscene is just irrelevant fluff, like the dragon god appearing above ground in the Demons' Souls one.

 

[Deified Data]

People may be making too much about the difference between "beasts" and "horrors". I mean we see a Vicar, one of the highest ranking people of the church, turn into a beast right in front of us. Got me though.



Yes, it seems more and more likly. I am just curious about it's (the skull's) place in the start menu cutscene though. It looks to have a place of reference in what looks like a chalice dungeon/underground labyrinth room in it. Can anyone make out what beast it was that attacks the hunter that finds the skull in that cutscene?

Of course maybe that cutscene is just irrelevant fluff, like the dragon god appearing above ground in the Demons' Souls one.

I'm inclined to agree with the bolded - it's visually striking so they used it in a cinematic.

The beast is CB, from what I can tell. The cutscene is definitely a mash-up of elements from the game.

 

[Beelzebufo]

People may be making too much about the difference between "beasts" and "horrors". I mean we see a Vicar, one of the highest ranking people of the church, turn into a beast right in front of us. Got me though.

Yes, it seems more and more likly. I am just curious about it's (the skull's) place in the start menu cutscene though. It looks to have a place of reference in what looks like a chalice dungeon/underground labyrinth room in it. Can anyone make out what beast it was that attacks the hunter that finds the skull in that cutscene?

Of course maybe that cutscene is just irrelevant fluff, like the dragon god appearing above ground in the Demons' Souls one.

The church is the biggest users of blood, which leads to beasthood. It would be weirder if someone from Byrgenwyrth or Mensis turned into a beast, Church members make perfect sense.

(that's why you still see Werewolves in the Choir building. Church uses blood ministration to combine beasts and tentacle shit. Byrgenwyrth and Mensis both focus on eyes)

 

[Defuser]

I was thinking...if the skull is Laurence then the crack-in of his skull in the cutscene was probably a killing blow by a hunter.

Laurence and his associates beckoned the moon presence.
Gehrman is with the Moon Presence.
Gehrman knows Laurence due to his dialogue
Gehrman has a peg leg, must have lost his leg to a beast probably...
The skull teeth has blood inbetween.....

Man I never have this much fun speculating theories.

 

[convo]

Honestly the fact that info is locked away in the guide is really annoying.

I don't think this will be enough info to explain the ending. That it took some guy begging them for their development internal names should show that those actually don't matter in the great scope of things for this game or the past ones.

 

[LiK]

Church of Vaati lore followers will skulk around with a high beasthood which is currently largely useless and ENB folks get massive insight into the lore and cosmic tentacles (well not really) so it's all good really.

Haha, nice.

 

[Fisty]

I was thinking...if the skull is Laurence then the crack-in of his skull in the cutscene was probably a killing blow by a hunter.

Laurence and his associates beckoned the moon presence.
Gehrman is with the Moon Presence.
Gehrman knows Laurence due to his dialogue
Gehrman has a peg leg, must have lost his leg to a beast probably...
The skull teeth has blood inbetween.....

Man I never have this much fun speculating theories.

hmm so Gehrman killed Laurence? Does that theory have Laurence as the dreamer? Interesting..

 

[Beelzebufo]

hmm so Gehrman killed Laurence? Does that theory have Laurence as the dreamer? Interesting..

Nah, probably not. Gehrman doesn't seem to know Laurence is dead at all. Don't know what you mean by dreamer lol.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

I think it's just a very unsubtle way of making sure everyone gets the relationship between Gascoigne and the little girl to ensure maximum feels.

Maximum feels were achieved when you found her mom... And if you used the music box.

But here's what I was thinking of.

 

[Deified Data]

I like the delineation of...

Consumption of blood = beast

Communion with Great Ones = horror

...but how does this explain the pale-faced clerics in the Cathedral who seem to be in the early stages of whatever effected the scholars in the Lecture Hall? Maybe I'm putting too much thought into arbitrary enemy design.

Nah, probably not. Gehrman doesn't seem to know Laurence is dead at all. Don't know what you mean by dreamer lol.

Dreamer, as in the host of the greater Nightmare, like Micolash was host to Mergo. Can't be Laurence, who is dead.

 

[theSlacker]

I actually hope the guide doesn't clarify shit (though we already know it has "official" names for all of the enemies, thanks to ENB) because the work is the work and should speak for itself, and needing an outside source to supplement in order to make sense of it is weak. I think some of y'all are expecting too much from it anyway.

I'm really not a big fan of needing the outside source for descriptions of things. Seems like a side effect of not having as many different items in the game. As item descriptions have always been the best source of new and absolute information. Not having unique suits of armor for more enemy types for example has made it so there are a lot of enemies that we have very little info on. The guide providing a one line description of different mobs will help massively with our understanding, but could have been something that was in game. Already our understanding of a lot of things come from the armors we can find and their relation to who is wearing them. Or something.

The church is the biggest users of blood, which leads to beasthood. It would be weirder if someone from Byrgenwyrth or Mensis turned into a beast, Church members make perfect sense.

Yes, I was trying to word something to that effect. That even though the teachings lead to insight and knowledge, which leads away from beast hood, the reliance on blood still leads to beast hood since it seems to be the cause of that change in the first place.

I'm inclined to agree with the bolded - it's visually striking so they used it in a cinematic.

The beast is CB, from what I can tell. The cutscene is definitely a mash-up of elements from the game.

Really guess I was just thrown for a loop from seeing that exact skull again, and the position it looked like it was in.

...but how does this explain the pale-faced clerics in the Cathedral who seem to be in the early stages of whatever effected the scholars in the Lecture Hall? Maybe I'm putting too much thought into arbitrary enemy design.

Na, enemy design itself should be vital and not arbitrary. There has to be some relation there since they do clearly look similar, and there is a church giant in the lecture building. There was a note on the second floor about "evolution" and "courage" that I can't remember the context of that may have some relation to this.

 

[Fisty]

Nah, probably not. Gehrman doesn't seem to know Laurence is dead at all. Don't know what you mean by dreamer lol.

Seems like they would know each other, Gehrman was the first hunter (and still alive) and Laurence was one too right? Maybe Gehrman joined MP and Laurence either fought him and lost or gave his life to awaken. The question is, why would Laurence fight against them? To become the assistant of MP like Gehrman or become the MP himself like the true ending?

 

[Beelzebufo]

I like the delineation of...

Consumption of blood = beast

Communion with Great Ones = horror

...but how does this explain the pale-faced clerics in the Cathedral who seem to be in the early stages of whatever effected the scholars in the Lecture Hall? Maybe I'm putting too much thought into arbitrary enemy design.

Dreamer, as in the host of the greater Nightmare, like Micolash was host to Mergo. Can't be Laurence, who is dead.

I think the pale-faced people in the Ward are Pthumerians that are forced to serve the Church somehow. They certainly look like Pthumerians. I never really gave much thought to the lecture hall people are all really lol.

And I don't think Micolash was the one who was responsible for the Nightmare of Mensis... he woke up right? And yeah, Laurence doesn't make sense really.

Seems like they would know each other, Gehrman was the first hunter (and still alive) and Laurence was one too right? Maybe Gehrman joined MP and Laurence either fought him and lost or gave his life to awaken. The question is, why would Laurence fight against them? To become the assistant of MP like Gehrman or become the MP himself like the true ending?

Oh, they definitely know each other. Gehrman certainly doesn't seem to know what happened to Laurence though, since he seems to be waiting for him for something. I doubt Laurence ever fought him.

Edit: the Slacker's got it covered lol

 

[theSlacker]

Seems like they would know each other, Gehrman was the first hunter (and still alive) and Laurence was one too right? Maybe Gehrman joined MP and Laurence either fought him and lost or gave his life to awaken. The question is, why would Laurence fight against them? To become the assistant of MP like Gehrman or become the MP himself like the true ending?

Gehrman defiantly knows Laurence. He calls out for him while sleeping. What the poster you quoted claimed was that Gehrman doesn't know that Laurence is dead. Since when Gehrman calls out for him (Laurence) it sounds like he is waiting for him for something.

 

[Coconut]

What's the difference between a beast and a dark beast or do we still have no solid difference?

 

[Fisty]

Gehrman defiantly knows Laurence. He calls out for him while sleeping. What the poster you quoted claimed was that Gehrman doesn't know that Laurence is dead. Since when Gehrman calls out for him (Laurence) it sounds like he is waiting for him for something.

wait wait wait... maybe MP is actually Laurence?

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Maximum feels were achieved when you found her mom... And if you used the music box.

But here's what I was thinking of.

That's what I'm saying. Between the music box and the mom it's perfectly clear but then the item description throws in that extra bit just to make double sure that everyone gets that Father Gascoigne is so named because he's a dad. It nearly breaks the fourth wall, like the wooden shield description.

 

[Uthred]

What's the difference between a beast and a dark beast or do we still have no solid difference?

Darl beasts are undead beasts I believe (based on the description of Izzy's stuff)

 

[Soulflarz]

Wait people in here don't like Vaati?

 

[Coconut]

Darl beasts are undead beasts I believe (based on the description of Izzy's stuff)

But I've heard the cannibal described as a dark beast and he has the electricity effect of other dark beasts and he doesn't seem to be undead.

 

[Gbraga]

Nah. The reason Laurence turned into a beast is because he started incorporating blood into everything. The old blood (probably from Loran or some shit) is what allows people to handle studying the Great Ones (communion) because it acts as a sedative, but also leads to addiction and beasthood, which is why Willem didn't want to use it in the first place.

The purpose of blood ministration is mainly to allow humans humans to talk with Great Ones without frenzying, because blood brings back that instinct.

I guess Laurence went too far.

Once Ebreitas and the Choir gets into the picture is I think when you start seeing weird shit like Celestial Emmissary arise thru blood ministration. Although I suppose it could be argued findig Ebreitas was what started everything in the first place?

Amelia's chants also support that.

Their adage from the old Byrgenwerth days is "Fear the old blood", but the chants say "Seek the old blood, but beware the frailty of man, their wills are weak, minds young."

Laurence still kept in mind that the old blood is dangerous, but instead of fearing it, and being against its use (Willem would be proud of Caryll because the runes use no blood. Though Willem himself drops a secret Caryll rune, so there's more to the Willem-Caryll plot than first meets the eye, they definitely knew each other and were working on something in secret), he started to use this blood as a means to communion and its healing properties were also used on yharnamites.

By the gods, fear it, Laurence.

What's the difference between a beast and a dark beast or do we still have no solid difference?

Only the lightning effect, as far as I know. I'm not sure of different origins. Maybe it's the difference between Beast and Clawmark? If you embrace your turning into a beast, you become a darkbeast? All speculation, of course, no solid evidence on this.

 

[Anuson.Phan]

I think Vaati is awesome. He brings the lore to life and turn it into short narrative films.