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[Beelzebufo]

Rom is protected by the church because he hides the true nature of "reality" from the people of Yarnham, which is essential to the preservation of their elitism and the progress of their own objectives (evolution/enlightenment for their members through blood ministration).

That said they equally despise him because of his ambivalence to their goals, this is why he is considered the vacuous one. He has many "eyes on the inside" but does nothing but maintain the veil that prevents only those with high insight from perceiving the lesser Amygdala all across Yarnham.

See like... there's no evidence Rom does any of this lol. There's not even a reason to think the Church tries to hide information from people, there are statues of Great Ones everywhere!

And as I pointed out... nothing in the game suggests that Rom protects any veil, or that there's a veil. It honestly sounds like you're just making stuff up, but you're probably just regurgitating something that someone else made up haha.

You don't even need to kill Rom to see the Great Ones for real! You just need insight. He really doesn't do anything at all except sit there and know stuff.

It could be, you're not the only one affected after Rom's death, Iosefka's impostor, the prostitute... both suffered the failed bith after Rom's death, I don't think is mere coincidence . Maybe Rom wasn't perfoming any ritual or veil, maybe a ritual was there and Rom was the key?

The only ritual in the game that's part of the main plot is when Mensis does shit in Yahar'gul with Mergo and The One Reborn. The pregnancy stuff, and the blood moon itself, it just part of the natural progression of the night. The reason it shows up in the vision is because you now know the importance of it, because you stole Rom's knowledge.

I ask again, do we break a "Ritual of Not-Being-Nighttime" when we oil Amelia and it turns to night?

 

[MegaSackman]

What if it's a mix of both ideas? What if Rom was in a way keeping people from noticing the effects of what the Great Ones and the Church were doing, so upon killing him, you gain insight and the ability to see what is truly going on while everyone else begins to be affected very rapidly.

I think this could help to explain things.

It could be, you're not the only one affected after Rom's death, Iosefka's impostor, the prostitute... both suffered the failed bith after Rom's death, I don't think is mere coincidence . Maybe Rom wasn't perfoming any ritual or veil, maybe a ritual was there and Rom was the key?

 

[Yurt]

who started this whole veil thing I wanna talk to him

because it fucked with my mind too

 

[YoungNeil]

It could be, you're not the only one affected after Rom's death, Iosefka's impostor, the prostitute... both suffered the failed bith after Rom's death, I don't think is mere coincidence . Maybe Rom wasn't perfoming any ritual or veil, maybe a ritual was there and Rom was the key?

Well, I wasn't saying that we're the only ones affected. Rather, I was saying that we're the only ones who really see what's causing the effects while everyone else begins to really be effected.

 

[Yurt]

It could be, you're not the only one affected after Rom's death, Iosefka's impostor, the prostitute... both suffered the failed bith after Rom's death, I don't think is mere coincidence . Maybe Rom wasn't perfoming any ritual or veil, maybe a ritual was there and Rom was the key?

this could also be explained by the red moon, right?

"When the red moon hangs low, the line between man and beast is blurred. And when the Great Ones descend, a womb will be blessed with child."

 

[Gbraga]

It could be, you're not the only one affected after Rom's death, Iosefka's impostor, the prostitute... both suffered the failed bith after Rom's death, I don't think is mere coincidence . Maybe Rom wasn't perfoming any ritual or veil, maybe a ritual was there and Rom was the key?

Well, when night falls NPCs go mad and start sounding like animals.

Was Amelia holding a veil of stupidity?

I think we need a lot more info on Rom, and he seems a lot more important than many are giving him credit for, but so far the time of day always progresses with the natural game progression, there isn't any evidence that Rom is keeping the red moon from happening. At all.

Or was Gascoigne keeping the afternoon from going on? Or Amelia/Laurence's Skull protecting the world from the night veil?

It makes no sense.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

The idea of the baby being of the Pthumerian Queen being the formless oedon makes alot of sense and could perhaps explain why i could hear the baby crying in the clinic when i have the yharnam stone, it would also explain why the babys crying casts magic on you during the fight with her.

Since alot of people havent done that fight yet i'll explain the baby crying mechanic, when fighting the queen, if you hear the baby crying, you have to keep moving otherwise it will cast the magic grab circle.

 

[MegaSackman]

this could also be explained by the red moon, right?

"When the red moon hangs low, the line between man and beast is blurred. And when the Great Ones descend, a womb will be blessed with child."

Yes of course, the moon is the one to blame what I think is that Rom is some kind of trigger either directly or not, I don't think that if Rom didn't existed things were going the be the same way, everything will happen but maybe in a different pace or circumtances, I think that by killing Rom we accelerated some process.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Well, when night falls NPCs go mad and start sounding like animals.

Was Amelia holding a veil of stupidity?

I think we need a lot more info on Rom, and he seems a lot more important than many are giving him credit for, but so far the time of day always progresses with the natural game progression, there isn't any evidence that Rom is keeping the red moon from happening. At all.

Or was Gascoigne keeping the afternoon from going on? Or Amelia/Laurence's Skull protecting the world from the night veil?

It makes no sense.

I agree

Do we really need more info on him though? Like every other note mentions him, Micolash mentions him, I think a lot of descriptions (Mensis aborted their brains trying to contact Mergo) point to him as just being a mix between a cautionary tale (he's basically all anyone in Mensis can ever hope to be) and a means to an end.

The weird thing is that Mergo's apparently been around for a while, but it's still an infant. I think? I have a good grasp on most of the stuff in this game except the main plot and Hunter stuff lol.

 

[YoungNeil]

I think we need a lot more info on Rom, and he seems a lot more important than many are giving him credit for, but so far the time of day always progresses with the natural game progression, there isn't any evidence that Rom is keeping the red moon from happening. At all.

I agree completely. He seems incredibly important, but as this discussion about him has pointed out, it's also incredibly difficult to understand what his purpose is. It's times like this I wish we still got souls that we could just look at for some answers.

 

[MegaSackman]

Well, when night falls NPCs go mad and start sounding like animals.

Was Amelia holding a veil of stupidity?

I think we need a lot more info on Rom, and he seems a lot more important than many are giving him credit for, but so far the time of day always progresses with the natural game progression, there isn't any evidence that Rom is keeping the red moon from happening. At all.

Or was Gascoigne keeping the afternoon from going on? Or Amelia/Laurence's Skull protecting the world from the night veil?

It makes no sense.

To be honest, I'm inclined to think that there's no veil and you gain knowledge after killing Rom which allows you to see things in a different dimensional plane. Iosefka's and Arianna's predicament are a thing of the moon which was going to happen... I think. But I'm not certain of anything, I don't discard the possibilty of a ritual taking place because the knowledge alone doesn't explain everything.

Why are Iosefka's impostor and Arianna pregnant? Wasn't already stated in the game that the Great Ones loses their childs and needs a surrogate? They already have Mergo...

 

[Beelzebufo]

To be honest, I'm inclined to think that there's no veil and you gain knowledge after killing Rom which allows you to see things in a different dimensional plane. Iosefka's and Arianna's predicament are a thing of the moon which was going to happen... I think. But I'm not certain of anything, I don't discard the possibilty of a ritual taking place because the knowledge alone doesn't explain everything.

Why are Iosefka's impostor and Arianna pregnant? Wasn't already stated in the game that the Great Ones loses their childs and needs a surrogate? They already have Mergo...

Great Ones lol. There can be more than one kid. You're tasked with killing "The Nightmare Newborn", the one in the Nightmare (Mergo). There are also the little baby slugs in the upper ward, which seem to be children of some sort, and there's a ton of them.

And sure, maybe Rom was conducting some ritual, but there's literally no reason to think he was haha, and every reason to think he wasn't. The ritual they're talking about is the one actively happening in the Unseen Village, which happens independently.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Question:

Once you're a beast, can you turn back into a human ? So could Gasgcoine or the cannibal NPC turn back into a human ?

If no, that's probably the reason for no beast transformation.

 

[YoungNeil]

To be honest, I'm inclined to think that there's no veil and you gain knowledge after killing Rom which allows you to see things in a different dimensional plane. Iosefka's and Arianna's predicament are a thing of the moon which was going to happen... I think. But I'm not certain of anything, I don't discard the possibilty of a ritual taking place because the knowledge alone doesn't explain everything.

Why are Iosefka's impostor and Arianna pregnant? Wasn't already stated in the game that the Great Ones loses their childs and needs a surrogate? They already have Mergo...

Well, we still don't really know what Mergo is. As of right now, we're assuming that it was the first Great One born of mankind, since it was likely born from Yarnham. And it's also believed that the Great Ones sort of act in their own interests, trying to expand their own bloodline, which is done by having more children through surrogates.

 

[Coconut]

Question:

Once you're a beast, can you turn back into a human ? So could Gasgcoine or the cannibal NPC turn back into a human ?

If no, that's probably the reason for no beast transformation.

It would seem that the cannibal can I don't know about Gascoigne or others.


Is Yarnham looming over the Church of the Good Chalice in the beginning of the game? Because I went back to it like last night and never noticed that Yarnham is like RIGHT on top of it.

 

[Gbraga]

I agree

Do we really need more info on him though? Like every other note mentions him, Micolash mentions him, I think a lot of descriptions (Mensis aborted their brains trying to contact Mergo) point to him as just being a mix between a cautionary tale (he's basically all anyone in Mensis can ever hope to be) and a means to an end.

The weird thing is that Mergo's apparently been around for a while, but it's still an infant. I think? I have a good grasp on most of the stuff in this game except the main plot and Hunter stuff lol.

I don't mean info as in the game giving us more info, just we making more connections.

I think we need more eyes

 

[YoungNeil]

I think we need more eyes

/thread

 

[Beelzebufo]

I don't mean info as in the game giving us more info, just we making more connections.

I think we need more eyes

Haha that's true. I guess the corpse that reanimates the Queen (which seemingly doesn't have anything to do with this) is kinda weird. Maybe he's like Micolash.

I want to know what lumenflowers are too.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

real eyes realize real lies.

Spoiler

tupac miyazaki

 

[LiK]

I don't mean info as in the game giving us more info, just we making more connections.

I think we need more eyes

you mean, insight.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

Great lore write up from Rich Stanton here:
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/04/09/whats-really-going-on-in-bloodborne

Really nice write up, some stuff isn't really stated as speculation when it is,but overall its a really good read

 

[Gbraga]

you mean, insight.

Great One's Wisdom:

At Byrgenwerth Master Willem had an epiphany: "We are thinking on the basest of planes. What we need, are more eyes."

 

[pantsmith]

See like... there's no evidence Rom does any of this lol. There's not even a reason to think the Church tries to hide information from people, there are statues of Great Ones everywhere!

And as I pointed out... nothing in the game suggests that Rom protects any veil, or that there's a veil. It honestly sounds like you're just making stuff up, but you're probably just regurgitating something that someone else made up haha.

You don't even need to kill Rom to see the Great Ones for real! You just need insight. He really doesn't do anything at all except sit there and know stuff.

I'm with you that there is no literal veil, or at least one specific veil Rom is protecting, but the word is such a rich metaphor when talking about perception and reality, not to mention Lovecraftian works, that it cannot be avoided.

This implies/reinforces that Rom is hiding something, and so you can understand how someone would read it, kill Rom, notice that the moon is suddenly red and there are giant horrors everywhere, or that the plot is now progressing on to stopping these rituals, and assume Rom had something to do with it.

I'm with you on taking his insight/awareness when you kill him, so that the veil lifts for us specifically (so to speak), which would explain why Willhelm points you onward to finding what you came there for (Truth) instead of warning you. I don't know why Queen Yharnam keeps showing up everywhere, though, or specifically after killing him. Shes the one bit of the story I'm really hung up on.

There's not even a reason to think the Church tries to hide information from people, there are statues of Great Ones everywhere!

Regarding this specifically, I just flat out disagree.

We know that Byrgenwerth has been sealed off beyond a gate that one of Willhelm's men guards (the one that requires the password), that you pass through a forest called the Forbidden Woods to get there, and that you have to fight off shadowy figures who guard the gate. This is to say nothing of the fact that Willhelm further hides his "work" in the lake itself.

As Alfred himself puts it:

But today, the college lies deep within a tangled wood, abandoned and decrepit. And furthermore, the Healing Church has declared Byrgenwerth forbidden ground. It's unclear how many of its scholars remain alive... ...but only they know the password that allows passage through the gate.

The church's two main locations, the Unseen Village and the Upper Cathedral/Orphanage, are both kept very well hidden beyond multiple barriers to entry, and it is unclear that any of these places are visited by any of the normal, everyday Yharnam citizens. The implication is that they aren't.

We start seeing the really weird, alien-looking statues the further we get into where we're not supposed to be. The average Yharnamite does not interact with them, and probably has no idea of the dark secrets behind the blood they drink.

 

[Yurt]

the term "ritual" was mentioned more than once, for Rom, Micolash and others. I think they meant that Rom is hiding how he turned into a Great One

but mostly because he's...well..brainless

I don't mean info as in the game giving us more info, just we making more connections.

I think we need more eyes

brilliant ahaha

 

[Gbraga]

Is Rom an artificial being made to be a great one or a human who ascended to be a great one, and as a result, became vacuous?

And is he really vacuous, or was he given such name out of spite? There is that note that says that true knowledge need not be shared, or something like that.

EDIT: Also, why wasn't Willem the one to have the honor to become a great one, if Rom was human?

EDIT2: Here, a lore note in Byrgenwerth says:

"The spider hides all manner of rituals, certain to reveal nothing, for true enlightenment need not be shared."

That raises the question, is Rom actually vacuous? Or is he a result of something we've been discussing, like "would you even care about human affairs once you reach the superior plane of knowledge of a great one?"

 

[Gbraga]

sorry for the double post

 

[Clear]

I ask again, do we break a "Ritual of Not-Being-Nighttime" when we oil Amelia and it turns to night?

The whole story is a ritual. With the primary actor being the "heir" the chosen hunter, as they are the only one who can bring a new sunrise by their willing sacrifice to Gehrman's burial blade. The conductor and beneficiary of the process is the nameless moon presence.

This has occurred repeatedly, many of the npc's you meet specifically mention that they've experienced multiple previous hunts. Several of the hunters you meet explain how they have "opted out" of this thankless cycle by refusing to return to the hunter's dream. Both Gyula and Eileen have dialogue making this explicit.

Don't confuse the state of the moon with the time of night. Once night falls, night has fallen. All that happens is that completing certain actions strengthens or weakens different factions. You can differentiate the factions depending on the headstone.

The church controls Yarnham, the Yahargul sect controls the unseen, and Mensis the nightmare realm. The Frontier, and the Hunter's dream lie outside the control zone of this triumvirate for good reason.

Moon state represents the Moon presence's power, it increases each time a rival faction's base is weakened or removed. The paleblood moon represents the weakening of the church, and the primacy of the Yahargul sect. Killing Rom weakens Yahargul allowing full access to the unseen realm and the destruction of the One Reborn. Killing the One Reborn finishes Yahargul and allows access to the nightmare realm and so on.

Each fight pulls out a linchpin supporting a faction that impedes the primacy of the moon presence, until eventually only he/she/it stands supreme and comes to claim their prize.

 

[pantsmith]

Is Rom an artificial being made to be a great one or a human who ascended to be a great one, and as a result, became vacuous?

And is he really vacuous, or was he given such name out of spite? There is that note that says that true knowledge need not be shared, or something like that.

Likely a student. Micolash asks for eyes like Rom was given, which means he (Rom) didn't previously have them and changed in some way. The nightmare (of which Micolash is host) contains an extensions or replication of the school, so it would make sense that they are there continuing studies, and are familiar with previous breakthroughs.

Vacuous implies big, hungry, and empty. In my eyes its an ironic title, both prestigious in reference to his pursuits and an insult to whats left of him. I'm sure he is full of insight, but exists in a form that only sucks up insight and has little capacity to share it with anyone.

 

[LiK]

Great One's Wisdom:

At Byrgenwerth Master Willem had an epiphany: "We are thinking on the basest of planes. What we need, are more eyes."

oh, forgot about that. that should title for next OT

 

[Beelzebufo]

Mensis is part of the healing church though, right? I don't buy the balance of power or the headstone argument.

Mensis controlled places are on the third and fourth headstones (which is part of the church), Hunter and Vileblood locations are on the third headstone, etc. They're not separated by faction or whatever.

 

[Gbraga]

Likely a student. Micolash asks for eyes like Rom was given, which means he (Rom) didn't previously have them and changed in some way. The nightmare (of which Micolash is host) contains an extensions or replication of the school, so it would make sense that they are there continuing studies, and are familiar with previous breakthroughs.

Vacuous implies big, hungry, and empty. In my eyes its an ironic title, both prestigious in reference to his pursuits and an insult to whats left of him. I'm sure he is full of insight, but exists in a form that only sucks up insight and has little capacity to share it with anyone.

Right, but is it really a lack of capacity to share? Is he really empty? True enlightment need not be shared makes me question that, but I'm not really sure either way.

I love the idea of a human becoming a great one, but the result being vacuous, but I'm not entirely convinced he really is.

Not only for this lore note, but also Micolash. Why would he want to be mindless? Maybe he also realized that Rom isn't actually vacuous, he just doesn't share what he now knows. Perhaps he's incapable of communicating, perhaps he just doesn't care, perhaps he still cares, and that's precisely why he thinks some secrets should stay as secrets, I have no idea. It just seems weird that Micolash would want it after what happened to Rom, if he is indeed mindless. Or that Willem would stay there and keep it a secret.

Unless Rom's purpose is indeed to keep the red moon, then it would make sense for Willem to protect it, it would even make sense for a Choir hunter to stay there protecting the entrance, but then it wouldn't make sense to talk about Rom's knowledge, or about the knowledge he hides/lacks. If his only purpose is to keep the red moon from coming, it should probably be more explicitly told (for their own sake, I don't mean they should tell us)

Mensis is part of the healing church though, right? I don't buy the balance of power or the headstone argument.

Mensis controlled places are on the third and fourth headstones (which is part of the church), Hunter and Vileblood locations are on the third headstone, etc. They're not separated by faction or whatever.

Yeah, Upper Cathedral key:

"The upper echelons of the Healing Church are formed by the School of Mensis, based in the Unseen Village, and the Choir occupying the Upper Cathedral Ward."

I can see why people would think otherwise, as I first thought Yahar'gul was antagonizing the Healing Church as well when I first got to Hypogean Gaol, but they're definitely part of the Healing Church.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I was under the impression that Rom was vacuous in the sense that he can't process the information (aborted brain), but he sees and knows anything. The note you're talking about I thought suggested that scholars still see this as a preferable outcome, since who cares about being able to interact with people if you know everything?

 

[robo_qwop]

Great lore write up from Rich Stanton here:
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/04/09/whats-really-going-on-in-bloodborne

Excellent. So the player becomes the surrogate child of Queen Yarhnam, having gained enough power and insight to hold its form.

Which makes me think/speculate:

Could Gehrman be the dream version of the Wetnurse, and vice versa the wetnurse the nightmare version of Gehrman?

Could The Doll be a "surrogate" dream version of Queen Yahrnam? An ersatz mother that can't provide sustenance as would a real mother, thus the need for a wetnurse?

The hunter him/herself is the new great one from the beginning, the hunt itself is for the insight/knowledge of this fact, learned ultimately in the end. The world itself provides--you the hunter--the sustenance to mature into what you'd always become.

Killing the wetnurse ends the nightmare. Killing Gehrman ends the dream. Both have collapsed. What's left is the reality that you were developing as the Great One throughout the whole game.

If not, whatever. Trying to assemble this world's mythos is half the fun.

 

[Gbraga]

I was under the impression that Rom was vacuous in the sense that he can't process the information (aborted brain), but he sees and knows anything. The note you're talking about I thought suggested that scholars still see this as a preferable outcome, since who cares about being able to interact with people if you know everything?

I guess it fits the lust for knowledge thing. Thanks.

 

[Ferrio]

I'm curious what the purpose of the doll's creation (outside of the dream) is. Was she created in a likeness of someone? Was the hairpin that person's possession and why she recognized it, or was it always intended just for the doll?

 

[ValfarHL]

What happens if you attack Gehrman in the beginning of the game? Does he simply one-hit-kill you?

 

[Auctopus]

Great lore write up from Rich Stanton here:
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/04/09/whats-really-going-on-in-bloodborne

He needs a font or colour for his text when he speculates, he says it so matter of fact when he knows no more than we do. Even his title is as of such.

We definitely need more info on Rom/Spiders, Mensis is littered with them and after defeating Ebrietas last night in the Upper Cathedral Ward, there's a friggin statue of Rom which Ebrietas was kneeling at prior to the fight.

 

[Coconut]

I'm curious what the purpose of the doll's creation (outside of the dream) is. Was she created in a likeness of someone? Was the hairpin that person's possession and why she recognized it, or was it always intended just for the doll?

Gerhmans apprentice created her.

I've read speculation that she is supposed to be either Gerhmans daughter or wife. Beyond that who knows and yes the hair pin is meant to have belonged to the real person.

 

[Gbraga]

What happens if you attack Gehrman in the beginning of the game? Does he simply one-hit-kill you?

He just fades and then comes back when you get back to the dream.

The doll also keeps working as a level up spot even if you kill her.

 

[Mermandala]

He needs a font or colour for his text when he speculates, he says it so matter of fact when he knows no more than we do. Even his title is as of such.

We definitely need more info on Rom/Spiders, Mensis is littered with them and after defeating Ebrietas last night in the Upper Cathedral Ward, there's a friggin statue of Rom which Ebrietas was kneeling at prior to the fight.

Or it's Rom's actual dead body which serves as the Altar of Despair and functions similar to Micolash's mummy in that they both project elsewhere in dream form and both locations serve to create or revive life for The One Reborn and Queen Annalise. It could be a statue though or another dead Rom-like creature.

 

[inki]

I wonder if there is some inception going on in Bloodborne. (Sorry if I jump around a bit)

You're told in the beginning that you think it a mere dream. I'm thinking perhaps everyone in what was Yharnum is now in that dream created by the great ones (the city may be dead or everyone is alive but no body's home so to speak in the REAL world).
The only way they can get more people to continue the dream (and the great ones attempting to bridge the dream into our reality) is to bring them in (when you die at the end, you awake in the city). The reason for this is Hunters can utilize blood echos and they could possibly be strong enough to incubate a Great one, once that would happen you would "wake up" and bring the Great One into our "Real World" existence.

To those living in the dream when you die, your dead to them, you exit out of the dream. They don't know any better. Now the Great old ones are using Rom to separate the Dream "reality" where the great ones are out walking around (which you can see through when your insight is high enough) and the "Veiled" Dream that the locals w/o insight live. (Think Matrix where they tried to make a utopia but mankind rejected it and they lost a lot of "Batteries" so they had to make it filled with pain and disease, etc). Those who know it for what it is (truly a nightmare) can either leave, try to take control or give in and accept their fate (3 endings). Or help (Microlash).

Later in the game you kill nightmares, not prey. You are killing the essence of great ones in the dream, even though they are still alive in their own dimension (they could be only blood memories of the great ones) but that's a deeper/alternate theory I would have to think about.

Think of the layers of Reality in the game as such.

COSMOS - Where the Great ones live
Dream - What the great ones have created to enslave/utilize citizens of Yharnum to cross the barrier into our Real world.
Real World - Where you go when you accept and choose to die at the end.

Other realities (sub dreams?) -
Nightmare Frontier. Realities created by something or someone who was strong enough to bend the Great ones Dream (I think Amygdala was the brain and dictated the dream to Mensis. Rom would then enact the veil, hiding the "reality" of the dream so to keep the inhabitants of the city confined/unable to question and "wake up").

Nightmare of Mensis - Mensis I think was corrupted by the Great ones and perhaps attained the ability to project his own secular section of the nightmare in attempts to help the Great ones take over. (See above). However for protection he, Amygdala and Rom are all in separate secular "sub" dreams. (Rom is Vacuous because he was once a man and is being utilized as a tool. You don't want your tools thinking for themselves and changing your plan up.)

Hunter Dream - Where Germann works for the great ones and weeds out hunters who don't have what it takes to further the Great Ones plan.

 

[Steel]

I ask again, do we break a "Ritual of Not-Being-Nighttime" when we oil Amelia and it turns to night?

Actually it doesn't become night time until you interact with the skull behind Amellia. It's still day until you touch it.

 

[Coconut]

Actually it doesn't become night time until you interact with the skull behind Amellia. It's still day until you touch it.

I think the person that you are responding to is under the impression that Amelia is attempting some type of ritual with her praying.

 

[convo]

Super Bunnyhop did a fantastic video about the Lovecraft influences in the game, more theme centric than lore but absolutely wonderful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voMAx-lKfIw

 

[Beelzebufo]

Actually it doesn't become night time until you interact with the skull behind Amellia. It's still day until you touch it.

My bad. Touching it breaks the veil then lol.

Is ailing Loran part of the labyrinth? All of the other chalices are just different parts of the same area.

 

[JackEtc]

EDIT: wrong thread, my bad

 

[Apathy]

I don't think we should take it that way. Rather, Micolash is dreaming in the same manner as Eileen was. Eileen "woke up" and stopped dreaming, and now she lives a mortal life. We are giving Micolash the ending that Gehrman wanted to give our character. There is some kind of "dream death" as demonstrated by the graves in the Hunter's Dream, but it's not clear to me how "dream death" and "real death" are related. This also suggests that if the main character accepts Gehrman's execution, we have forgotten everything when we wake up. It also reinforces the notion that waking up is not a good thing. Micolash may be on the crazy side of things, but there is always a little truth within insanity.


Gah, Kotaku is blocked at work. :-/

The difference is that the dream death for Micolash happens well well well after hes been in the dream state so long that his real body is dead so if we give him the dream death like Gehrman wants to give us, we send Micolash back to a dead body and therefore hes done. If we get a dream death (or say Eileen before she stopped dreaming), we could still return to normal bodies and continue on with life and normal death.

 

[anderyoung]

not sure if this has been posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJOL5iRXvqA

But this is a pretty thorough lore video using in game dialogue and item descriptions

 

[GorillaJu]

Kotaku's write up is great and puts a cohesive time line onto a lot of things we have been speculating together. One thing is that he says its "speculation, not fact" that Laurence's skull is on the altar, but we have a bit of inside knowledge here. it is fact, not speculation!

Also it seems really likely that the bloodletting beast is Laurence. If Laurence started the healing church, it makes sense that bloodletting, the medical procedure of draining blood to cure illness, is required for blood ministration.

Here's my new theory: I don't think Ashen Blood = beast transformation. I think Ashen Blood = petrification. The antitode item description says it eventually triggered the metamorphosis epidemic, and I think it triggered it, but isn't the same illness.

Ashen blood -> use antidote. Antidotes not strong enough -> blood ministration. Take blood -> become a beast.

Otherwise through what mechanic are the people we see all over becoming petrified? There are statues, but there are also people who obviously turned to stone. One could make the connection that your blood becoming like ash—grey and sandy—you eventually turn to stone.

Also, we know there are different types of blood too, with different properties. White blood (Ebrietas?) -> become a mushroom dude, red blood (Oedon blood?) -> become a beast, black blood (???) -> become a Vileblood, etc.

Just some thoughts

 

[VinFTW]

So, anybody else think those crosses/gravestones where you fight Gherman are the graves of other hunters hes had to put down?