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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
DrDrizzay101
Member
Speaking of pictures from the Lecture Hall, anyone else notice the mostly erased chalk board? Any ideas what types of secrets were written here?
Mainly looks like concave and convex lens diagrams, e.g.:
Left side of chalk board has some more words and formulas:
...any ideas? Maybe just generic "physics lecture" writing but I have to imagine it has more significance than that.
The shade of black was pretty weird and I don't mean in an unsettling kinda way like the abyss in Dark Souls
it looked like a glitched video game area
And it made no sense in the context of the level :/ What was that area?! Something outside the realms of the nightmare? Micolash's brain is clearly in need of more RAM
it looked like a glitched video game area
And it made no sense in the context of the level :/ What was that area?! Something outside the realms of the nightmare? Micolash's brain is clearly in need of more RAM
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Well ray diagrams make sense since they need their eyes to gain knowledge, perhaps they are trying to figure out how eyes/light works. Really interesting find either way.
test_account
XP-39C²
Have anyone translated the Kirk Hammer yet? I took a picture here of it with a pretty good view (best i could do right now) :
http://i.imgur.com/zlgBS4r.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_Futhark
http://i.imgur.com/zlgBS4r.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_Futhark
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
the dlc
Ordinaryundone
Member
He was beseeching the Kosmos (aka the Great Ones) to grant him eyes and the insight to evolve, like they did for Vacuous Rom. Micoclash is being used by Mergo to host his Nightmare, but Micoclash has been driven entirely mad (if he wasn't already before) and thinks he's communing with a Great One rather than simply being enthralled by one.
Karsticles
Member
I rewatched the Micolash fight. I forgot that he says "Oh no, I'm waking up! I'll forget everything now!" When he dies.
yea, that still makes me laugh. he's gonna wake up to being a dead corpse.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I wonder where the people faced spiders come from.
Also, I'm not sure what the consensus we came too about the eye coverings is, but at least for the Choir (and the statues) I'm pretty sure it's a Mensis cage-styled "Block off your physical eyes to open your real ones" kinda thing. That doesn't make much sense with the exiled Hunters and beasts though, so I'm inclined to believe they're closer to the "Im ignoring this exists" kind of thing.
Also, I'm not sure what the consensus we came too about the eye coverings is, but at least for the Choir (and the statues) I'm pretty sure it's a Mensis cage-styled "Block off your physical eyes to open your real ones" kinda thing. That doesn't make much sense with the exiled Hunters and beasts though, so I'm inclined to believe they're closer to the "Im ignoring this exists" kind of thing.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Theres a bell in the Isz chalice, that they crawl down, this bell seems significant and may be an important clue to their origin, since as far as i know the only mismatching of heads comes from the nightmare and that bell.
MegaSackman
Member
The Church took distance from Willem theories, so maybe they answered him with their eyes covered. I can't decide if it's either this or they just didn't want the common people to go mad, insight could be just a thing for the Choir, the clerics who were supposed to be high enough to avoid madness.
Krusenstern
Banned
It took me half a day but I finally caught up on the entire thread. The game has such a great lore around it. Wonderful and fucked up stuff Miyazaki cooked up again.
And this image basically sums it up:
lol
I just love how this game looked like your ordinary Van Helsing beast slayer game at first and then turns into Lovecraftian horror.
When I discovered the Upper Cathedral Ward and this creepy music started playing and see all of these alien slugs crawling around the entire place... it sends cold shivers down my spine.
An atmosphere comparable to finding a UFO crash site or something.
Freaky stuff.
From what I've read, the general consensus here seems to be that the entire game actually takes place in a dream.
I actually think that everything that happens in Yharnam is "real". Only the Hunter's Dream and the locations in Nightmare Headstone are dreams. Hence why you get the "Nightmare Slain" message when you beat Mergo's Wet Nurse and the Moon Presence. Because these bosses only exist in dreams.
Btw, one thing I can't recall anyone talking about. There is this one closed door at the left of a treasure chest you can find at the Cathedral Ward (past the two fatties with bricks and the white Church Giant hat).
Has anyone managed to open that door?
And this image basically sums it up:
lol
I just love how this game looked like your ordinary Van Helsing beast slayer game at first and then turns into Lovecraftian horror.
When I discovered the Upper Cathedral Ward and this creepy music started playing and see all of these alien slugs crawling around the entire place... it sends cold shivers down my spine.
An atmosphere comparable to finding a UFO crash site or something.
Freaky stuff.
From what I've read, the general consensus here seems to be that the entire game actually takes place in a dream.
I actually think that everything that happens in Yharnam is "real". Only the Hunter's Dream and the locations in Nightmare Headstone are dreams. Hence why you get the "Nightmare Slain" message when you beat Mergo's Wet Nurse and the Moon Presence. Because these bosses only exist in dreams.
Btw, one thing I can't recall anyone talking about. There is this one closed door at the left of a treasure chest you can find at the Cathedral Ward (past the two fatties with bricks and the white Church Giant hat).
Has anyone managed to open that door?
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
It's been discussed before.Judging by ENB videos,the geographical area that door leads to is Cleric Beast's bridge location from the other side.Why they just left it locked remains a mystery.(they probably didn't want another shortcut,forgot it in the alpha,etc)
I think some creatures can fall under the extent of Micolash's nightmare. Hes either scared of spiders (they're in his nightmare) or he's obsessed with them to some degree (the great ones granted Rom power and he wants that power, Rom is a spider and he could be trying to find the link).
I think no one opened it. IMO it just represents the way you should suposed to go after Cleric Beast, but that it's sealed when you reach it (so you have to take the alternative route through the sewers). That place is up of where you fight him.
EDIT: What Sephirot_GR said.
actually the general consensus is this one, it's absolutely not a dream.
yeah no one knows how to open that door yet.
Laurence might know how in the DLC
Krusenstern
Banned
I just find it strange why you can still interact with that door. Oh well.
I hope we get DLC in the level of Artorias of the Abyss. Judging by this thread we don't know enough to recreate the most of the story.
Ah ok. I must say I find the lore of this game far more interesting than Dark Souls'. I really want more Bloodborne. Not necessarily a sequel though. I think the game stands on its own pretty well. DLC could shed enough light on the matter.
Great lore write up from Rich Stanton here:
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/04/09/whats-really-going-on-in-bloodborne
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/04/09/whats-really-going-on-in-bloodborne
I only got to the choir after beating mergo's wet nurse, and the choir still creeped the fuck out of me.
I don't know if this was brought up earlier in the thread, but I think Rom the Vacuous Spider supposed to be Provost Willem.
I believe this because, according to one of the umbilical cord's item descriptions, we know that Willem attempted to elevate himself to being a great one. As Rom's name suggests, he is vacuous, or without intelligence, but why would a great one not have intelligence, or in Bloodborne's context, insight? I believe that he has this name because he is not a true great one, rather a human has managed to transform himself into a sort of bastardized form of a great one, also explaining why he has a much smaller and less powerful form than some of the other great ones we see and fight.
Thoughts?
I believe this because, according to one of the umbilical cord's item descriptions, we know that Willem attempted to elevate himself to being a great one. As Rom's name suggests, he is vacuous, or without intelligence, but why would a great one not have intelligence, or in Bloodborne's context, insight? I believe that he has this name because he is not a true great one, rather a human has managed to transform himself into a sort of bastardized form of a great one, also explaining why he has a much smaller and less powerful form than some of the other great ones we see and fight.
Thoughts?
Duebrithil
Member
If only the texture was clearer or the board had a little bit more context... Diffraction, interference maybe? Perhaps thing in the middle is just a prism. Still, I'll give my optics notes a look when I get home and see if I come up with anything. Good find in any case.
Krusenstern
Banned
Willem is the guy in the rocking chair outside the balcony.
MegaSackman
Member
Fantastic read!
This should be required reading for everyone in the thread, and part of the OP.
He cites the game and what is written with carefully selected screenshots of text, which is essential. There are a couple things I'm not sure I agree with, but only because they are open ended and I haven't made up my mind.
Rom is his own dude -- Willhelm is outside in the chair, and points you on toward him. Later, Micolash is calling out to the Old Ones asking for the same kind of blessing that Rom specifically was granted (eyes on the inside, and lots of them).
If they left it open there'd be like three ways into lower old Yarnham and the place isn't big enough to warrant that many entrances.
JayWood2010
Member
Isn't there a guy who posts youtube videos about the lore on the Souls series? Link would be appreciated if anybody knows what im talking about 
Ah, I must have missed that. But I'm still not convinced that Rom was always a great one, because Micolash asks to be given eyes as Rom was once given. So, while he's not Willem, I still believe he's a human who was given his great one status to maintain the veil for the other great ones.
I read some of it. pretty long. i'll finish it later. seems like most stuff we kinda figured out here.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Rom has insight, but that's all he has. He's probably a (Mensis?) student who "aborted his brain" by getting eyes. He knows every ritual and sees everything, but doeant share it with anyone because he lacks the agency, he's vacuous.
That Kotaku article doesn't seem to really know what's going on. Just skimmed it, but whenever I stopped they clearly missed out on something. Like the "holy medium" found in the labyrinth is more or less explicitly stated to be slugs, not Yharnam or Ebrietas. They didn't even find Ebrietas until they got to the Isz part of the labyrinth, which is way after Byrgenwyrth.
If that's the case, then how come killing him seems to reveal the rituals to everyone if his purpose isn't to maintain the "veil" for the great ones? Although, I do like and agree with your idea that he doesn't share with anyone because he lacks agency. That's something I hadn't considered.
Karsticles
Member
I don't think we should take it that way. Rather, Micolash is dreaming in the same manner as Eileen was. Eileen "woke up" and stopped dreaming, and now she lives a mortal life. We are giving Micolash the ending that Gehrman wanted to give our character. There is some kind of "dream death" as demonstrated by the graves in the Hunter's Dream, but it's not clear to me how "dream death" and "real death" are related. This also suggests that if the main character accepts Gehrman's execution, we have forgotten everything when we wake up. It also reinforces the notion that waking up is not a good thing. Micolash may be on the crazy side of things, but there is always a little truth within insanity.
Gah, Kotaku is blocked at work. :-/
Yep, he definitely touches on most (if not all) of the stuff that's been covered in this thread. Just thought it was a worthy addition to the pile.
As an aside, as someone who's not finished this game (my free time has been extremely limited, so I'm only at Old Yarnham, and I'm also pretty crappy), I've been feeding my growing obsession by reading the lore stuff (not too fussed about spoilers).
This thread has been an amazing read, and I've truly enjoyed everyone's input into it. It's elevated my enjoyment of the game, like 100x, and it's so great to see such a positive community around this stuff. Also discovered ENB's Youtube channel, which has been both enlightening and entertaining.
U M B A S A. Or something.
oh, I kept thinking the corpse we touched at Advent Plaza to reach Lecture Building/Nightmare of Mensis was actually Micolash's body.i guess he's somewhere else which is possible.
Beelzebufo
Banned
You absorb his knowledge, so the secret of the ritual is broken (the only thing broken is its status as a secret to you). You now know about how a new child is going to be born, about the ritual Mensis is performing. That's why you see the non-diegetic "Go kill the nightmare newborn" and see those visions, and why the Doll mentions something has changed in you. I'm almost positive there's no veil, I don't know why people keep thinking there is one lol. Must have been something one of the first people to have the game talked about.
I think that's likely. It seems like the Mensis members spend so much time in the Nightmare that their physical bodies rot. Only thing about that that doesn't make sense is that those mummies are also right before Mergo.
Micolash as a "Host" makes sense if you enter the nightmare through his corpse as well.
People think there is a veil because of how Rom's death begins to affect everyone in the world, rather than just you. Of course, it is entirely possible that we are the only ones who perceive the new moon and the old ones as, to my knowledge, no NPC really brings up the sudden changes to the world beyond losing their minds some more. Personally, I perceive the events as implying there's a veil, but I can definitely see how it's completely possible that there isn't one.
Kotaku made an interesting point regarding the Bloodletting Beast (who you only encounter in the Chalice), I remember his creepy dialogue quite vividly and I couldn't for the life of me make the connection
he does have a scar on his face and his V2 is missing his head entirely, so yeah, I guess you could make a case about him being Laurence!
anyway, guys, here's Micolash's corpse again
he does have a scar on his face and his V2 is missing his head entirely, so yeah, I guess you could make a case about him being Laurence!
anyway, guys, here's Micolash's corpse again
Though there is a lot of great speculation and interpretation in here, this thread is FULL of posts that question and contradict eachother. For someone trying to cut to what we certainly know, it's a great starting point especially because of the citation he does.
Most of his article is right on the money, and the stuff I don't agree with him on (Ebrietas, Mergo, Rom) is not wrong so much as it is his own interpretation based on information presented by the game.
Beelzebufo
Banned
That's the thing though, Rom's death doesn't affect anyone but you
The blood moon starts the events in Yahar'gul (the ritual stuff), but that's a normal part of the hunt (it happened when Old Yharnam burned). It's just the night progressing.
The viel doesn't really make sense lol. Rom hides rituals from you, he doesn't perform rituals (which the viel believers seem to be thinking lol). You break the ritual secret, you don't break the secret ritual. No ritual even happens until after you kill Rom lol.
Basically I think it's silly that so many people seem to think there's a veil when nothing in any notes or descriptions suggest such a thing exists, while literally everything actually in the game suggests the opposite haha.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think it's possible that the central corpse in Advent Plaza is Micolash, dead physically, but his mind is held aloft in the nightmare which was already self-sustaining when his body expired. After all, when he "wakes up" Mensis doesn't vanish. The player can continue further in the nightmare.
It would fit with grim irony that Micolash laments waking because he'll forget the wonderful (to him) nightmare, not realizing he's going into a corpse.
However, I am personally not so sure on the explicit reality of events in the game after the intro. The lovecraft themes seem to encourage a blurring of dream and reality. I wonder if what's going on in Yharnam is somewhat hyperreal after the player character takes a blood infusion. In the sunrise ending, the player awakes not back in the clinic, nor at one of the lamps after being kicked out of Hunter's Dream. The introductory words of course tease the player to wonder if absolutely everything is happening in a dream.
It would fit with grim irony that Micolash laments waking because he'll forget the wonderful (to him) nightmare, not realizing he's going into a corpse.
However, I am personally not so sure on the explicit reality of events in the game after the intro. The lovecraft themes seem to encourage a blurring of dream and reality. I wonder if what's going on in Yharnam is somewhat hyperreal after the player character takes a blood infusion. In the sunrise ending, the player awakes not back in the clinic, nor at one of the lamps after being kicked out of Hunter's Dream. The introductory words of course tease the player to wonder if absolutely everything is happening in a dream.
Krusenstern
Banned
They're wearing the same clothes that's why I also came to the conclusion.
ok, yea. I have to say it's gotta be Micolash there. unless there's some lore that says otherwise, I assume he's dead and when he "wakes up", his mind dies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRXTBlKuEDc
I can't tell if that's Laurence's voice or not
does anyone have the voice actors credits? Let's see who voiced the Bloodletting Beast!
it's simultaneously funny and tragic innit
I can't tell if that's Laurence's voice or not
does anyone have the voice actors credits? Let's see who voiced the Bloodletting Beast!
it's simultaneously funny and tragic innit
That's the thing though, Rom's death doesn't affect anyone but you
The blood moon starts the events in Yahar'gul (the ritual stuff), but that's a normal part of the hunt (it happened when Old Yharnam burned). It's just the night progressing.
The viel doesn't really make sense lol. Rom hides rituals from you, he doesn't perform rituals (which the viel believers seem to be thinking lol). You break the ritual secret, you don't break the secret ritual. No ritual even happens until after you kill Rom lol.
Basically I think it's silly that so many people seem to think there's a veil when nothing in any notes or descriptions suggest such a thing exists, while literally everything actually in the game suggests the opposite haha.
First, I want to say that you have completely convinced me that there's no veil, and I think I have something to add to this theory.
I always found it weird how the moon in the Hunter's Dream never changed to the Paleblood moon after killing Rom, but I think I understand now. Assuming that the Hunter's Dream is a sort of "shared consciousness" between all hunters, then the Palebood moon doesn't appear because only you can perceive it. This also helps my theory of the dream being shared by all hunters.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Ooh, that's an interesting point! I think there a few other places where the moon doesn't change too, but most of them seem to be dreams as well (like the moonlight lake?). I never really understood it haha
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
That's the thing though, Rom's death doesn't affect anyone but you
The blood moon starts the events in Yahar'gul (the ritual stuff), but that's a normal part of the hunt (it happened when Old Yharnam burned). It's just the night progressing.
The viel doesn't really make sense lol. Rom hides rituals from you, he doesn't perform rituals (which the viel believers seem to be thinking lol). You break the ritual secret, you don't break the secret ritual. No ritual even happens until after you kill Rom lol.
Basically I think it's silly that so many people seem to think there's a veil when nothing in any notes or descriptions suggest such a thing exists, while literally everything actually in the game suggests the opposite haha.
Rom is protected by the church because he hides the true nature of "reality" from the people of Yarnham, which is essential to the preservation of their elitism and the progress of their own objectives (evolution/enlightenment for their members through blood ministration).
That said they equally despise him because of his ambivalence to their goals, this is why he is considered the vacuous one. He has many "eyes on the inside" but does nothing but maintain the veil that prevents only those with high insight from perceiving the lesser Amygdala all across Yarnham.
What if it's a mix of both ideas? What if Rom was in a way keeping people from noticing the effects of what the Great Ones and the Church were doing, so upon killing him, you gain insight and the ability to see what is truly going on while everyone else begins to be affected very rapidly.
I think this could help to explain things.
eot
Banned
It doesn't change in Paarl's boss arena, or at Cainhurst. The fromer is probably an oversight but who knows.