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[noah111]

Yeesh. Market it as a cheap kids/education device and I guess that's alright. Putting it in the spotlight too much would prove problematic. Multiple SKU's never end well when things aren't balanced right.

And if this is what they scrapped a 4"-4.6" iPhone/iPod for.... double yeesh.

 

[kame-sennin]

but the same holds true for their iPod lineup - why did Apple care about entering the low-end MP3 market with the iPod mini, shuffle and nano? jumping in at this stage could effectively kill whatever momentum Amazon, B&N and Google were collectively trying to carve out.

I don't know whether Apple would make a 7 inch tablet, but the comparison to the iPod line doesn't work for me. The expansions to the iPod line weren't designed to capture the low end of the market, they were designed to perform different functions (or sub-functions) from the original iPod. The iPod mini and nano were for people who wanted something that took up very little space. And the iPod shuffle was designed with physical activity in mind. Each iPod had a specific function that the other models couldn't perform. All of Apple's products are designed in this way, so if Apple were to release a 7 inch tablet, it would have to perform some function that the current iPad doesn't do very well. Maybe that function is increased portability, or maybe it's something else. But I don't think Apple would be all that motivated to do this simply as a defensive move.

 

[Sean]

I don't know whether Apple would make a 7 inch tablet, but the comparison to the iPod line doesn't work for me. The expansions to the iPod line weren't designed to capture the low end of the market, they were designed to perform different functions (or sub-functions) from the original iPod. The iPod mini and nano were for people who wanted something that took up very little space. And the iPod shuffle was designed with physical activity in mind. Each iPod had a specific function that the other models couldn't perform. All of Apple's products are designed in this way, so if Apple were to release a 7 inch tablet, it would have to perform some function that the current iPad doesn't do very well. Maybe that function is increased portability, or maybe it's something else. But I don't think Apple would be all that motivated to do this simply as a defensive move.

I don't view this any differently than Apple offering their laptops in different screen sizes - 11 inch, 13 inch, 15 inch, 17 inch...

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I don't view this any differently than Apple offering their laptops in different screen sizes - 11 inch, 13 inch, 15 inch, 17 inch...

Yep. People try to complicate Apple too much.

I see it like the 11" MacBook Air which allowed them to make a <$1000 notebook.

 

[Oppo]

I don't like this at all, and I still don't buy it.

I think that size range (7" ish) is good for e-readers and not much else.

iPhone/iTouch = deck of cards
iPad = letter-sized sheet of paper or binder
7" tablet = largish paperback?, and not much else

Honestly think this is one of those situations where the market does not really know wtf it is asking for.

 

[kittens]

Smaller tablets appeal to me so much more. I'd love to see what Apple has cookin'.

 

[Raistlin]

I don't like this at all, and I still don't buy it.

I think that size range (7" ish) is good for e-readers and not much else.

iPhone/iTouch = deck of cards
iPad = letter-sized sheet of paper or binder
7" tablet = largish paperback?, and not much else

Honestly think this is one of those situations where the market does not really know wtf it is asking for.

7" is about the largest screen that most people can one-hand.

Plus it's obviously a lot more portable than a full sized tablet. So while not for everyone, I can see why many people find them compelling.




Though niche, for tech nerds without tons of dough ... they make great in-wall automation / A/V controllers too

 

[bean breath]

Buy American.

 

[Raistlin]

Buy American.

So no tablets then.

OK

 

[giga]

There's one thing that kind of bothers me about it though. The allure of a 7" for many is the more convenient form-factor. Not only is it more portable than a full-size tablet, but most people can actually one-hand them comfortably during use.

The problem with a 7" iPad is that aspect ratio would make this impossible for most people as it would be a fair amount wider. Unless you have Edgar Allan Poe creepy fingers, you aren't going to be holding it like that. Even if you're Mr. Fingers though, I'm pretty sure an 8" would make impossible.

Hopefully this is not the case, but if it does end up being true ... it's like Apple kind of missed the point. It's just a me-too product that doesn't really get it.

I had a Kindle Fire for a while. One handing it like your pic was something I could do (big hands, palm basketball, etc) but it wasn't at all how I held the device. It's not very comfortable for long use to hold it like that.

I always held it to the side with one hand. Basically like this:

 

[Marty Chinn]

So there's no argument, everyone's on the same page.

Unless you want to argue over semantics. But you don't want to do that, right?

I don't think we should ever completely sweep under the rug using incorrect terminology or phrasing on a place which the primary focus is to discuss things through text. It would be like me saying Apple has poor sales because I think "poor" means "great". Unless you want to advocate that to be allowed and valid.

 

[bean breath]

Why? Death to competition is good now?


I have as many apple products as the biggest of apple fanboys but this is just blind stupidity

One man's apple fanboy is another man's patriot.

 

[Raistlin]

I had a Kindle Fire for a while. One handing it like your pic was something I could do (big hands, palm basketball, etc) but it wasn't at all how I held the device. It's not very comfortable for long use to hold it like that.

I always held it to the side with one hand. Basically like this:

For long-term duties, I actually use a helo strap 'cause it's awesome (and I'm lazy)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004E93TC4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Sadly, I could see myself wanting one even on a 7" lol

 

[numble]

I don't think we should ever completely sweep under the rug using incorrect terminology or phrasing on a place which the primary focus is to discuss things through text. It would be like me saying Apple has poor sales because I think "poor" means "great". Unless you want to advocate that to be allowed and valid.

The people you are arguing with over the use of the phrase have explained what they think the term means. You continually seek to project a different interpretation on them and arguing against that projected interpretation.

There is no argument, except one over semantics. Especially when many people believe that the correct usage of the term was used.

Take a gander at how many times people use the phrase on GAF:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=945339

Please go and "correct" them.

 

[Metroid Hunter]

Can you imagine just how huge a 200-250 iPad would be this christmas season? My God. The "expensive" iPad is already averaging 15 million a quarter on it's own. A cheap mini-iPad released in the holiday season? I can't even fathom what would happen. They'd sell as many as they could produce that is for sure. iPad sales could cross 30 million that quarter if Apple could make that many.

I'd feel bad for the Wii U though lol.

Two different markets. Someone isn't going to buy an iPad for the same reason as they buy a Wii U.

Of course, people would rather spend their $$$ on the new iPad than the Wii U, but then all consumer electronic manufacturers would have to worry.

 

[CharminUltra]

Yes, this is obviously a preemptive, last minute defensive move by Apple to counter the Nexus 7.

I mean, it's not like a 7-inch iPad mini has been heavily rumored for months to be coming this fall or anything.

 

[kehs]

So no tablets then.

OK

That's what the Q is for.

 

[Vic]

Yes, this is obviously a preemptive, last minute defensive move by Apple to counter the Nexus 7.

I mean, it's not like a 7-inch iPad mini has been heavily rumored for months to be coming this fall or anything.

Considering that a site like Bloomberg is backing the rumour right when all these tablets are revealed...

 

[Raistlin]

That's what the Q is for.

I said

GOOD DAY

 

[CharminUltra]

Considering that a site like Bloomberg is backing the rumour right when all these tablets are revealed...

Yeah, because Bloomberg has never, ever mentioned an iPad mini coming this fall before the Nexus 7 was announced amirite?

Teh preemptives moooves!

 

[Izick]

Every company that's made a 7" tablet before should sue Apple over trade dress.

Yes.

 

[Futureman]

Yeah, because Bloomberg has never, ever mentioned an iPad mini coming this fall before the Nexus 7 was announced amirite?

Teh preemptives moooves!

Not sure what you're really getting at, but the nexus 7 has been rumored since around the time the Kindle was released. And a smaller iPad has made the rumormill since the original iPad was released. Probably because it's almost a certainty that Apple had various sized iPads in prototype before the original was even released.

 

[CharminUltra]

Not sure what you're really getting at, but the nexus 7 has been rumored since around the time the Kindle was released. And a smaller iPad has made the rumormill since the original iPad was released. Probably because it's almost a certainty that Apple had various sized iPads in prototype before the original was even released.

Exactly, meaning it's been in the works for a while i.e. not preemptive or out of the blue at all.

 

[Futureman]

could have been in the lab and green lit when Apple saw Fire explode and rumors of Google 7" though, so who knows really.

 

[Vic]

Yeah, because Bloomberg has never, ever mentioned an iPad mini coming this fall before the Nexus 7 was announced amirite?

Teh preemptives moooves!

I've used the Nexus 7 as an example of a competitor, but it wasn't my point to say that it was the reason why Apple could make a low-cost tablet. The surge of the Kindle Fire would've probably influenced the decision of making an iPad mini, just like it influenced Google to launch one small tablet. The low-cost tablet sector is what I've been alluding to, not one specific device or competitor.

 

[Somnid]

I wonder what would be in this for Apple. I mean all they can really contribute here is the brand, but is that enough for an increasingly established market?

Something at iPad 2 level is going to have a hard time staying competitive with things like the Nexus 7. I mean they might have better build quality and a slightly better screen or maybe 3G but at what cost? and certainly there's no profit to be had as anything in the 7" market is sold at loss. It seems like they would just be drawing unnecessary and unwanted comparisons. If Apple's image is the Ferrari of tablets why try and cut into the low end?

 

[Vyer]

I found it funny that Bloomberg mentioned "random blogs" in their article:

.

Yeah, it's been around for a long time. It seems they are using their own sources here, so who knows.

 

[blueICE]

7" is about the largest screen that most people can one-hand.

the bezel is on the nexus 7 is huge! cut down the bezel and we can one-hand a lot more.

 

[Sean]

I wonder what would be in this for Apple. I mean all they can really contribute here is the brand, but is that enough for an increasingly established market?

Something at iPad 2 level is going to have a hard time staying competitive with things like the Nexus 7. I mean they might have better build quality and a slightly better screen or maybe 3G but at what cost? and certainly there's no profit to be had as anything in the 7" market is sold at loss. It seems like they would just be drawing unnecessary and unwanted comparisons. If Apple's image is the Ferrari of tablets why try and cut into the low end?

Nexus 7 is sold at cost (break-even), but that's at $199. I think Apple would probably charge $299, which would not only allow them to have better specs and/or build quality, but also higher profit margins.

I think most consumers would be willing to pay a premium for iPad.

 

[LCfiner]

So I guess if this happens apple will be positioning it as more of a media playback and game device?

The iPad can be a laptop replacement for a lot of people and the 10" screen is a big part of it. Unlike the difference between an 11 and 13 Air, which is rather minor, a 7" iPad would be more limited in the types of apps that can comfortably run on it and have enough space for a good touch UI.

Eh, I'm still not convinced that the mobility gains with 7" tablets are worth it.

 

[gcubed]

I hope someone got a design patent on 7" rectangles

 

[kame-sennin]

The problem with this device is that it's an iPad. Can't wait for the Microsoft Surface (Pro) to come out, I just hate the iOS with a passion. Apple really wasted an opportunity to make a "real" computer.

Apple doesn't see personal computing through that lens. Since the Apple II, everything Steve Jobs has been involved in designing was meant to be used as an appliance. It's not about building a "real computer", it's about using computing technology to design an appliance that helps people accomplish specific tasks. In the same way a food processor is a cooking appliance, the iPad is designed to be a simple internet appliance. The iPad allows the user to check email, browse the internet, and consume media - traditional computing functions are irrelevant to that job. That's why Apple uses the phrase "post-PC device". They're going to continue to leverage their PC software and hardware expertise to make easy to use appliances that aren't actual PCs.

I don't view this any differently than Apple offering their laptops in different screen sizes - 11 inch, 13 inch, 15 inch, 17 inch...

Yep. People try to complicate Apple too much.

I see it like the 11" MacBook Air which allowed them to make a <$1000 notebook.

There's nothing complicated about this view. Apple designs their products around the user experience. Jobs' original comments on the 7 inch form factor seem to suggest that Apple believes there is a significant difference in the user experience when you change tablet size. They may have found a good reason to make a 7 inch tablet, but I don't think the comparison to laptop screen sizes is apt.

 

[eastmen]

Depending on the price a 7 inch tablet can work really well. I think an 8 inch is to close to the 9.8 inch screen in the ipad esp if its 8.x . But a 7 could be good and if the iphone only moves to a 4inch screen you will have a decent diffrence between the 3 devices.

I can see using an phone on the go , bringing a 7 inch with you when your on the go and have limited space and then a 10 inch when your going to have time to sit there and use it.

Depending on usage i would upgrade them at diffrent times. For instance if my 7 inch is really only used for light gaming /read and mostly movies then it would get upgraded less than say the 10 inch device that i game heavly . The phone of course would get upgrade the most because of the contract and that i use it every day.


Of course i wouldn't buy into apples product line.

 

[Vanillalite]

7" is about the largest screen that most people can one-hand.

Plus it's obviously a lot more portable than a full sized tablet. So while not for everyone, I can see why many people find them compelling.




Though niche, for tech nerds without tons of dough ... they make great in-wall automation / A/V controllers too

Problem is you aren't going to get this aspect ratio if Apple wants to keep app compatibility with the regular iPad. Going to 4:3 means it becomes not 1 handable. People go with the 16:9/10 because it works better for one hand.

 

[LCfiner]

Apple doesn't see personal computing through that lens. Since the Apple II, everything Steve Jobs has been involved in designing was meant to be used as an appliance. It's not about building a "real computer", it's about using computing technology to design an appliance that helps people accomplish specific tasks. In the same way a food processor is a cooking appliance, the iPad is designed to be a simple internet appliance. The iPad allows the user to check email, browse the internet, and consume media - traditional computing functions are irrelevant to that job. That's why Apple uses the phrase "post-PC device". They're going to continue to leverage their PC software and hardware expertise to make easy to use appliances that aren't actual PCs.





There's nothing complicated about this view. Apple designs their products around the user experience. Jobs' original comments on the 7 inch form factor seem to suggest that Apple believes there is a significant difference in the user experience when you change tablet size. They may have found a good reason to make a 7 inch tablet, but I don't think the comparison to laptop screen sizes is apt.

The iPad can do a lot more than you're giving it credit for.

Just because they are attempting to reduce the complexity if traditional desktop computing - and it is complex for a lot of people - doesnt mean it's only good for three tasks.

 

[Nibel]

I don't believe this rumor. Apple doesn't care about low-range stuff.

 

[giga]

Problem is you aren't going to get this aspect ratio if Apple wants to keep app compatibility with the regular iPad. Going to 4:3 means it becomes not 1 handable. People go with the 16:9/10 because it works better for one hand.

What lol. People go with widescreen because of movies and tv shows. Again, palming tablets like that isn't comfortable and is not how it's regularly held.

 

[shinobi602]

Ipad Mini has 7" screen.

Nexus has 7" screen.

Patent infringement lawsuit coming to a Google near you!

 

[kame-sennin]

So I guess if this happens apple will be positioning it as more of a media playback and game device?

The iPad can be a laptop replacement for a lot of people and the 10" screen is a big part of it. Unlike the difference between an 11 and 13 Air, which is rather minor, a 7" iPad would be more limited in the types of apps that can comfortably run on it and have enough space for a good touch UI.

Eh, I'm still not convinced that the mobility gains with 7" tablets are worth it.

This is my problem with the rumor, it seems like a large iPod touch would be more effective than a small iPad when it comes to pure media consumption. It also doesn't jive with the idea that Apple wants to improve the iPad's content creation ability. They can of course still do that with the standard model, but there's a risk of splitting the user base for apps.

The iPad can do a lot more than you're giving it credit for.

Just because they are attempting to reduce the complexity if traditional desktop computing - and it is complex for a lot of people - doesnt mean it's only good for three tasks.

I'm not criticizing the iPad, I'm pointing out where the focus is. I'm aware that it can do more things than I mentioned. But the reason the iPad is so successful is that it is lazer focused on doing those three things. Apple took the same approach when they released the iPhone ("An iPod, a phone, and internet communicator"). Other functions grew and developed over time based on how customers used it, but the original product was very focused.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

The low-cost tablet market isn't really established yet. This gives the chance for Apple to make themselves a big player in that range and eventually will slow all these upcoming platforms trying to potentially creep up to Apple from below toward their iPad business, which makes a lot of revenues, hence the idea of a preemptive move.

The Nook Color was around for I think a year before the Kindle Fire came out, and then obviously the Fire was marketed a lot and sold a ridiculous amount. And now Asus/Google are involved with a very aggressively priced tablet.

The market is not new and the profit margins are pretty slim. Apple's tablet is likely to be $50-$100 more than the competition. It isn't a preemptive move, Apple doesn't have a timing advantage and is unlikely to be in the same price range.

 

[Raistlin]

Problem is you aren't going to get this aspect ratio if Apple wants to keep app compatibility with the regular iPad. Going to 4:3 means it becomes not 1 handable. People go with the 16:9/10 because it works better for one hand.

Way to jump in there just in time

Spoiler

you might want to start from the beginning of the thread

 

[NZer]

So at the 7" size, are we convinced that it's gonna run current iPad apps (and therefore be 4:3 and likely 1024x768), or is there still a possibility that this will be a big iphone and run only iphone apps (which might 'scale up' better than ipad apps 'scale down', and therefore the mini would be 16:9 and whatever resolution the iPhone 5 is)?

 

[Raistlin]

the bezel is on the nexus 7 is huge! cut down the bezel and we can one-hand a lot more.

Actually the bezel on the sides is pretty thin, and that's the only part that matters for one-handing it.

I'm glad you brought this up though because I haven't really seen much discussion on the bezel size on the top/bottom. It's the first thing I noticed when they showed it off ... it is pretty huge

What lol. People go with widescreen because of movies and tv shows. Again, palming tablets like that isn't comfortable and is not how it's regularly held.

Maybe we should take a vote ... I was speculating on that, and maybe you are right.
However, how do you know maybe it's you?


For a dude, I have little baby hands ... and that's how I hold my Nook Color. And while the bezel is symmetric, I think it ends up being slightly wider on the sides versus N7, and I know the unit is thicker. Then again, my hands are pretty stretched out from playing piano, guitar, and bass. But yeah ... even with smallish hands it's comfortable for me to one-hand.

 

[BPRD]

wait isnt that just an iphone? I thought thats all an ipad was a big iphone

 

[Raistlin]

Oh look ... fresh meat




It's always amusing when someone so young says something so old

 

[tino]

I followed this bullshit rumor closely for 2 years until I brought a Galaxy Note now I dont care anymore.

 

[LCfiner]

wait isnt that just an iphone? I thought thats all an ipad was a big iphone

amazing insight. are you available for interviews?

 

[Vic]

The Nook Color was around for I think a year before the Kindle Fire came out, and then obviously the Fire was marketed a lot and sold a ridiculous amount. And now Asus/Google are involved with a very aggressively priced tablet.

The market is not new and the profit margins are pretty slim. Apple's tablet is likely to be $50-$100 more than the competition. It isn't a preemptive move, Apple doesn't have a timing advantage and is unlikely to be in the same price range.

You know what? I won't push the word preemptive anymore.

The current iPads are working very well for them so why would they start to make a 7in tablet now? What's the motivator?

 

[subrock]

This won't happen. Go look at all the iPhone 5 rumors from last year to discover the nonsense that the press makes up about apple products.

 

[Sean]

There's nothing complicated about this view. Apple designs their products around the user experience. Jobs' original comments on the 7 inch form factor seem to suggest that Apple believes there is a significant difference in the user experience when you change tablet size. They may have found a good reason to make a 7 inch tablet, but I don't think the comparison to laptop screen sizes is apt.

I should probably phrase this in a nicer way, but Steve Jobs is dead and no longer in charge of Apple. If Tim Cook wants to release a 7 inch tablet, it'll happen.

From all reports of Cook, he seems like more of a business guy and not necessarily a design snob like Steve was. I think he'd be more concerned about increasing marketshare than user experience or whatever. Cook is probably thinking "we can get these parts cheaper than anyone else, we have the best supply chain, we've got retail stores, we could get iPad minis into every classroom, sell a ton of these to foreign markets, grow our marketshare by X%, etc"