Bloomberg: iPad 3 in March with retina display, quad core chip
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Technosteve
Banned
shira
Member
Square Vita games $60 on iOS confirmed
StriKeVillain
Banned
With all the talk of a smaller iPad being unveiled, I've decided to hold on to my iPad 2 for a little longer. I at least want confirmation that iPad 3 is a 10" tablet. I'll sell it for a little bit less but at least I'll have peace of mind.
I'd be pretty upset if I sold my iPad and could only replace it with a smaller model. :/
I'd be pretty upset if I sold my iPad and could only replace it with a smaller model. :/
There is absolutely 0% chance that iPad 3 won't be a 10". Hell, i'll be damned if iPad 4 comes out and it isn't a 10" either. There's no way they'll ever replace this line, so you have nothing to worry about.
Plus, a smaller tablet line isn't even coming until winter or even next year, if at all.
shira
Member
It might be fatter than the iPad 2 though
Right, slightly thicker by a few millimeters isn't something he sounds like he'd be worried about, though.
StriKeVillain
Banned
Right, slightly thicker by a few millimeters isn't something he sounds like he'd be worried about, though.
:lol
As long as it fits in my Timbuk2 case, I'm good. I just need some more rumors to come out to help solidify the terrain. I'm hoping by this time next week we have a good sense on what exactly is going to be announced.
Slappers Only
Junior Member
Forgive me for being lazy:
What does the resolution result to if you protract the retina ppi to a screen of that size?
Gonna be crazy.
What does the resolution result to if you protract the retina ppi to a screen of that size?
Gonna be crazy.
Just multiply 1024 and 768 by two... 2048x1536. CRAZY indeed.
You have nothing to be worried about. There hasn't been one single rumor they'd make it smaller. That is literally impossible and has never been considered, you have nothing in need to be solidified. No need to worry sir.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
That's a good point, the iPad and PSV both use ARM and powervr for the CPU/GPU. The game would have to be sold for the same price as the PSV copy though so the question is would you pay $30 to play a game on your tablet?
Slappers Only
Junior Member
The current iPad has screen dimensions of something like 9.56" x 7.47". If that's the case for the next iPad, and they uphold the ppi they've deemed "ratina", the thing has to have a resolution of 3116 x 2435.
Technosteve
Banned
vita am cry
Why does it have to sell for the same price? Scribblenauts was a port that sold for less. World of Goo sold for less than the Wii price (and on sale for 1/3 the Wii price) and made much more money. They also don't have to pay for testing, bandwidth and ESRB fees, like they have to on some platforms:
http://2dboy.com/2011/02/08/ipad-launch/
Leona Lewis
Banned
It's not just about PPI though. They can easily manipulate it by (correctly) arguing that you hold a phone much closer to your face than a tablet, so the resolution you'd need for individuals pixels to not be visible wouldn't need to have as high a DPI as the iPhone.
The whole thing is just marketing nonsense, though. Has as little meaning to me as how companies so often abuse the term "high definition"...
Slappers Only
Junior Member
The very idea of the Vita already had tears running down its face when two-year-old cellular telephones had screens that were superior to the one it would get.
StriKeVillain
Banned
Well, there was a rumor earlier in the week referring to an 8" iPad Apple was preparing to debut. Although, it could just be deception from Apple's part.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
It depends what kind of games you're talking about. Something like Gran Turismo or Uncharted will obviously cost more to make than World of Goo. The larger the initial investment to make the game, the more that publishers will have to charge for it.
Slappers Only
Junior Member
Well, I know what you mean, but I was under the impression that "retina" was based on an actual measurement for a ppi at which the human eye literally can't perceive individual pixels, no matter how close you get to them. If there's any reality to that claim, the ppi is something that couldn't be fudged for larger displays.
Leona Lewis
Banned
LOL, "retina" is an Apple marketing invention and will mean whatever they want it to mean for their own purposes. It was never a strict measurement (especially since you can see individual pixels on an iPhone if you're close enough).
Gran Turismo and Uncharted aren't going to come to the iPad--they're first party games.
What are the big budget games planned for the Vita by 3rd parties? Ridge Racer? The PSP version has already been ported to the App Store and sells for $12.
The Lego games (Lego Star Wars, Lego Harry Potter) are also games that were ported over and sold ($5) for a fraction of the original price. They are extra income in a larger potential market. In the first month of sales, there will probably be many more iPad 3s than Vitas. If the porting costs are low, I think the third parties are going to jump on it, especially if Vita sales are lackluster. I think what may be more likely in the future is porting iOS games to Vita, like with Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja, and the library of Gameloft games.
Slappers Only
Junior Member
Of course the term is a marketing invention, but I figured it was based on some sort of actual measurement that they could point to. PPI would make sense. I wish you weren't probably right, though.
That was a rumor they were testing a new iPad, not a replacement for iPad 3. Don't worry. The parts already leaked for iPad 3 anyway and its the same size.
eating your own tail can only end badly.
Release ports of console games for $5; people stop buying the console games; cannot justify the investment to make more console games; source for cheap ios games dries up; everyone cries.
pressure sensitive screen and intelligent stylus is very niche market. Nothing stopping a smart developer coming up with a smart stylus that has a capacitive tip, can sense pressure, and transmit that to the ipad via bluetooth (even just emulating a keyboard). Then release a drawing app that is compatible.
And I wouldn't ever expect it from Apple directly anyway, they hate stylus's.
brotkasten
Member
I hope that opinion died with Steve Jobs.
Something that kinda worries me about the iPad 3, is the fact that squeezing proper 3D graphics out of it - with good shaders, some dynamic shadows, generally PS Vita-level image quality - sounds really optimistic, considering the output resolution will be higher than friggin' 1080p.
The poor mobile GPU has to generate more pixels than the majority of gaming PCs, let alone the current generation of consoles. It will probably be powerful enough to generate seriously decent visuals at the old, non-retina iPad resolution, but that will require developers to resist the attractive "sharp Retina Graphics!" marketing label on their apps.
I have my doubts we'll be seeing PS Vita-level image quality on an iPad, at least before the "next-next" generation of devices. I'm no silicon expert though - maybe the speed bumps per generation of chips are simply so significant, it won't be much of an issue?
The poor mobile GPU has to generate more pixels than the majority of gaming PCs, let alone the current generation of consoles. It will probably be powerful enough to generate seriously decent visuals at the old, non-retina iPad resolution, but that will require developers to resist the attractive "sharp Retina Graphics!" marketing label on their apps.
I have my doubts we'll be seeing PS Vita-level image quality on an iPad, at least before the "next-next" generation of devices. I'm no silicon expert though - maybe the speed bumps per generation of chips are simply so significant, it won't be much of an issue?
I really doubt it. I can't see them doing something so blatantly anti-Steve Jobs. I mean he point blank said any company that releases a stylus for a touch-screen device failed. At both the big iPad introduction and the big iPhone introduction. There really isn't any area to work with. Plus Scott Forstall worshiped the ground Jobs walked on, more than any Apple fanboy out there. And Forstall is in charge of everything iOS related. I can't see it ever happening.
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
Why the fuck would anyone want to use a stylus for anything other than some type of drawing/art/CAD application?
The everyday "yes", "no", etc buttons need to be stylus free, and that's exactly what the iPad is
No it won't, we'll just see intensive 3D games render at iPad 1/2 resolution with extra AA. It'll look great and scale perfectly, so it won't decrease IQ.
A digital notebook with compatible pen is not a niche market. Students are just one huge segment of the potential users and we already see Apple designing specifically for that group with iBooks. The previous pressure sensitive screens and intelligent pens were niche products for easily identifiable reasons, most notably the high prices and poor products. There is nothing stopping Apple from releasing an iPad with a decent pen solution.
Betta Lines
Member
For a start, there's nothing special about PS Vita image quality for 3D rendering. Uncharted is very much below native resolution, and any attempt at a decent 3D action game on iPad 3 would be very much below native too. There may be the odd 3D game at native, but it'll be really basic stuff.
Wouldn't be surprised if utter shite like Real Racing 3 will come out at native though, and people will say 'omg, it's better than home consoles'. And I will smh, facepalm, etc.
I certainly hope so, too. Maybe the trendyness of "Retina" could fade after the iPad 3 launch rush, and developers would start balancing their graphics more sensibly - but I had the same hopes when the iPhone 4 came out, never happened. Though that was a long time ago in "technology years", of course.
Hmm, good point - didn't know that about Uncharted Vita. Let's hope the crowd of iOS developers will actually think that way, then - the only remaining obstacle to iOS gaming would then be physical control inputs, more or less. Where art thou, Apple Bluetooth Gaming Controller!?
Yes, it is a niche market. It's a subset of the people who would buy an iPad. It's certainly not necessary to pack it in.
If they wanted to make one, and build API's into iOS, I could see that, but I guarantee it would be sold separately.
Apple wants the iPad hardware to be as discreet as possible. Ideally for Apple, it just disappears and lets the app take over.
An iPad bundled stylus gets in the way of this vision. you can disagree with it, but you shouldn't expect any more. do not expect screen to get more complicated with pressure sensitivity or EMR and a stylus that works like a wacam with buttons, floating cursor, etc.
it's your fingers and the app. that's it.
An iPad bundled stylus gets in the way of this vision. you can disagree with it, but you shouldn't expect any more. do not expect screen to get more complicated with pressure sensitivity or EMR and a stylus that works like a wacam with buttons, floating cursor, etc.
it's your fingers and the app. that's it.
... not sure where you're going with here. You could say that about any iOS feature. Only a subset of potential owners use any particular feature so they are all niche markets. By your logic, a faster gpu for games is a niche market because gamers are a subset of people who buy the iPad. Obviously Apple sees otherwise.
Potential pen users is a large group that cuts across people who would buy iPads and people who won't. I think it would be a very often used feature, somewhere between browsing the web, checking emails and playing game.s
*shrug* I don't see them making one at all. Not for the next year or two at least.
It's your fingers and an app... and the status bar, the smart cover, the external keyboard, the dock, the headphones and—need I go on?
And how exactly would that change if they release a stylus? You shouldn't need a stylus to use a tablet, but that doesn't mean one wouldn't be useful for some specific tasks like the ones you mentioned(or even less specific tasks, like note taking).
It would be insanely stupid for Apple to get hung up on what was said years ago, native stylus support would be a boon to productivity on the Ipad, especially with a high resolution screen it could be an amazingly cheap alternative to a cintiq for non-power users.
I always thought it was weird of Apple to completely dismiss styli and then release that tacky keyboard dock.
The GPU is built in, hidden, and helps the UI and overall performance. It's not just for games. It improves the entire experience.
Keylime
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How can you guys be seriously talking about Apple even considering using a pen when Steve at the initial keynote made such a joke of the "if you see a pen, they've failed"?
Hand-writing notes has to be becoming a thing of the dinosaur, doesn't it? Kids aren't even learning script anymore in some places...and typing is easily faster than writing. For advanced mathematics or sciences I could see people wanting to draw little pictures or diagrams...but that doesn't mean they couldn't just as easily do it within the confines of the iPad if a proper program existed.
The people who truly want a pen are the artistically inclined, and there are better tools out there to get that stuff done than the iPad...and it sounds like the 3rd party market is determined to grant this capability to the iPad without direct support from Apple anyways.
Apple creating any kind of pen to be used with the iPad as a primary input device just isn't going to happen.
Hand-writing notes has to be becoming a thing of the dinosaur, doesn't it? Kids aren't even learning script anymore in some places...and typing is easily faster than writing. For advanced mathematics or sciences I could see people wanting to draw little pictures or diagrams...but that doesn't mean they couldn't just as easily do it within the confines of the iPad if a proper program existed.
The people who truly want a pen are the artistically inclined, and there are better tools out there to get that stuff done than the iPad...and it sounds like the 3rd party market is determined to grant this capability to the iPad without direct support from Apple anyways.
Apple creating any kind of pen to be used with the iPad as a primary input device just isn't going to happen.
third party accessories to expand the ipad is not the same thing as modifying the screen tech to be stylus and pressure friendly.
and the status bar? really? that gets hidden a lot of the time in apps.
the smart cover is also not the same as modifying the screen. I seriously don't get where you come up with these comparisons.
...but that's the problem now, isn't it? Given GPU parity, if the Vita fails to run its flagship titles at a resolution that's quite a bit below even the original iPad's native res, imagine on the iPad 3.
Double scaling a low res image, even with 4xmsaa, is going to result in a blurry non-retina experience.
At least on the Vita, we're only talking 5 inches and a lower native res as a a starting point.
*throws up hands* They modified the iPad to include magnets for a damn cover. I mean how much more frivolous can you get? My point was to show that while the ideal is supposedly fingers and and app, the abstraction is leaky and breaks down all the time to show other stuff. That ideal is not a good enough reason to remove all possibility of a pen.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Eh, I'm not sure how. I'll have both of these devices eventually (iPad 3 and Vita) and use them for different things and different types of gaming. The iPad has no joysticks, buttons, or anything for more traditional games. Vita does. Though the iPad is better for the simpler games, or games built for it's strengths specifically (i.e. Infinity Blade).
Overall, both are great devices.
It'll result in an image that looks exactly like the original iPad. For intensive 3D games, the problem has not been pixel density it's been control limitations and performance limiting the geometry of a scene (eg. Infinity Blade only having two characters on screen at a time). For text "retina" will be a huge improvement, but I'm fine with game developers largely favouring geometry and framerate over resolution, provided the scaling remains perfect (which is NOT the case with Vita).
Betta Lines
Member
It's ridiculous to expect a 'retina experience' from 3D games on iPad 3. We don't even have a 'retina experience' on the highest-end gaming PCs running on 30" monitors.
It'll look fine. As fine as a sub-720p console game (i.e. most of them) on an enormous TV.
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