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[Afro Thunder]

THE TOSHIBA HD camp and the Sony Blu-ray DVD camp may still be talking about using a standard format. But that hasn't stopped the Blu-ray Association from talking up the format. Or is it that it's intended to concentrate the minds of the Toshiba camp?

In a statement today the Blu-ray Association mentioned the Hollywood word in the shape of Twentieth Century Fox. As the world+dog knows, it will be Hollywood which decides what gives on a standard format.

The BD-ROM lot said that process improvements and cost efficiencies mean that making Blu-ray disks will lead to similar costs eventually to the cost of DVD replication.

The trade association said that replication factories in the US are ready to make BD ROM disks with Technicolor readying a pilot process by July this year.

The Blu-ray camp has over 125 members and those include Dell, Apple, HP, Hitachi, LG, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, TDK, 20th century Fox and Walt Disney.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23482

PS3 here we go!

 

[Suikoguy]

Toshiba, seriously, give it up.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Agreed. HD-DVD is shit. Blu-Ray for the next-HD era!

 

[sonycowboy]

Is that sayting 20th Century Fox is committing to the format. If so, that would be huge, and it would be the last undecided "big" studio

Blu-Ray
----------------
Sony
MGM
Disney
Fox

HD-DVD
----------------
Warner Bros
Paramount
Universal
New-Line

Unknown
--------------------
Mirimax (still controlled by Disney?)
Dreamworks (still associated w/ Warner like this "generation" w/DVD?)

 

[AndreasNystrom]

I think PS3 will make BluRay popular.

But its not the first time Sony would loose otherwise with a superiour format (betacam vs vhs)

 

[TTP]

Does this really rule out the possibility of the PS3 having a "hybrid" BD-HD-DVD format eventually? I mean, if that talking about merging the two technologies is actually taking place, and considering it's gonna be like BD tech-wise + HD software wise, this hybrid format could just be actually called Bu-Ray and still implement Toshiba's software. Or not?

 

[pcostabel]

Does this really rule out the possibility of the PS3 having a "hybrid" BD-HD-DVD format eventually? I mean, if that talking about merging the two technologies is actually taking place, and considering it's gonna be like BD tech-wise + HD software wise, this hybrid format could just be actually called Bu-Ray and still implement Toshiba's software. Or not?

I think time is running out. If PS3 comes out in May 2006, they should have the Blu-Ray specs nailed down and start production within 6 to 8 months.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

Didn't the Panasonic president issue Toshiba a big "fuck you" the other day? :lol

I can't see a Blu Ray <> hd dvd merge happening.

 

[Mrbob]

The looming release of the PS3 has to be scaring the shit out of the hd-dvd camp.

 

[Nerevar]

But its not the first time Sony would loose otherwise with a superiour format (betacam vs vhs)

AGH


shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up!. I'm so sick of seeing this completely misinformed and pointless comment popping up in these debates. VHS was better than Betamax in the 1 area it mattered most - length (originally, Betamax could only hold 1 hour whereas VHS could hold 2). Thus, VHS won.

 

[sonycowboy]

AGH


shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up, shut the fuck up!. I'm so sick of seeing this completely misinformed and pointless comment popping up in these debates. VHS was better than Betamax in the 1 area it mattered most - length (originally, Betamax could only hold 1 hour whereas VHS could hold 2). Thus, VHS won.

But, that wasn't the reason for the loss.

Sony wanted WAYYY too much for other CE companies to license the Beta format and licensing VHS was SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive. Sony killed themselves there.

 

[Nerevar]

But, that wasn't the reason for the loss.

Sony wanted WAYYY too much for other CE companies to license the Beta format and licensing VHS was SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive. Sony killed themselves there.

fair enough, but I'm sick of seeing people throw out that Betamax was a "superior" format without understanding what the hell they're talking about. They probably saw it on AVS or something from some videophile who praised the superior image quality that Betamax achieved at the cost of movie length - when in reality consumers wanted the 2-hour-long video format so they could actually have movies. There were pluses and minuses to both formats back then - in the current setup BRD is a superior format to HD-DVD in every way (except for, theoretically, cost).

 

[borghe]

as long as I don't have to pay $30-40 per movie on BRD at launch, I say go for it. If I have to pay anything more than $30 for a movie, even with special features, I still stand behind HD-DVD. I already went through laserdisc. I don't enjoy the prospects of having to spend $40-50 on each new release. Yes it looks nicer, but it is simply a matter of economics. It is fewer movies that I finanacially will be able to buy and thus bad.

 

[Teddman]

Sounds like generic PR... Haven't HD-DVD discs basically been ready for production for a long time, since existing DVD replication plants can manufacture them?

What blu-ray replication factories are ready to produce blu-ray, I thought no one had committed yet outside of one company...

 

[Rhindle]

This announcement is just plain PR BS. The replicators couldn't be further away from being "ready to support BRD production."

 

[sonycowboy]

as long as I don't have to pay $30-40 per movie on BRD at launch, I say go for it. If I have to pay anything more than $30 for a movie, even with special features, I still stand behind HD-DVD. I already went through laserdisc. I don't enjoy the prospects of having to spend $40-50 on each new release. Yes it looks nicer, but it is simply a matter of economics. It is fewer movies that I finanacially will be able to buy and thus bad.

You will be paying $30. At least, that'll be the MSRP. More if they include the extra content that Blu-Ray will support. Especially Java applications that are part of the Blu-Ray spec and/or internet connectivity, which is also part of the spec.

Studios should be putting quite alot of exclusive content that we haven't seen before, although some will take the quick and dirty route.

 

[sonycowboy]

This announcement is just plain PR BS. The replicators couldn't be further away from being "ready to support BRD production."

For those doubters, a more full explanation and the proof is in the pudding that it's starting in July.

Blu-ray Disc Ready for Cost Effective Manufacturing
Wednesday May 25, 6:00 am ET
Process Improvements and Cost Reductions Prepare Blu-ray Disc for Mass Production

HOLLYWOOD--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 25, 2005--Broad acceptance and adoption of Blu-ray Disc has led to the maturation of the complete disc manufacturing process. Having multiple companies involved with each step has contributed to process improvements and cost efficiencies that bring the long-term cost of manufacturing BD-ROM discs in line with current DVD replication costs.

"There are a lot of companies trying to stake out a position in various aspects of BD-ROM manufacturing," said Kazuhiro Tsuga, executive officer of Matsushita Electric. "As a result, we are seeing multitudes of improvements in processes and technology, as well as the effects of economies of scale that make replication extremely cost effective."

The most recent advances come in the area of cover-layer technology, where one of two approaches (film bonding and spin coating) can be used to apply the 0.1mm cover-layer used in Blu-ray Disc.

The spin-coating process, which uses resin to form the cover-layer, is now being piloted in Torrance, California by Panasonic, who in cooperation with Origin Electric, has developed replication technology and equipment for the mass production of spin-coated discs.

In film bonding, the development of new extruded film technology by several leaders in the chemical industry has significantly reduced film costs. A new film product from Teijin reduces the cost of the cover film to one-third of the cost of conventional polycarbonate materials, and Degussa, a new BDA member company, projects a single-digit Euro cents per-disc cost at launch. In addition to these advances in film materials, Lintec Corporation's hard coat material and film bonding process makes the film bonding method very efficient.

With the improvements in cover-layer technology, and in preparation for mass production of BD-ROM discs, Singulus Technologies, a leading manufacturer of replication equipment, has developed replication systems that will target cycle times towards three seconds. Yields are expected to exceed 90% in a full-scale, mass production environment.

Sony has developed equipment to streamline the disc mastering process by reducing the eleven steps currently used in DVD mastering to five for BD-ROM. This mastering process, Phase Transition Mastering (PTM), requires as little as one-fifth of the space required for DVD mastering and the equipment can be configured to allow mastering of both BD-ROM and DVD-ROM on a single system. The first two commercial machines are for Technicolor and Cinram for Q2, 2005 installation.

With these developments in the industry, replication facilities in the United States are setting up and preparing to mass produce BD-ROM Discs. Technicolor is establishing a complete pilot BD disc manufacturing process by July 2005. Cinram already has a pilot replication line that produced demo discs for CES 2005 and is awaiting the delivery of commercial lines.

"Fox is pleased to see the increasing number of technology companies and materials vendors committing to Blu-ray implementation, which is reducing costs to promising levels through technological breakthroughs and innovation," said Danny Kaye, SVP Technology and Research Strategy at Twentieth Century Fox. "We look forward to continued technological progress along with developments in content protection."

In addition to ramping up for mass production of the 50GB discs that will be available at format launch, Blu-ray has begun work to ensure that the format continues to grow as high-definition technology evolves. Blu-ray companies have successfully demonstrated 200GB discs in a laboratory environment and are poised to further expand the format's capacity as needs dictate.

 

[borghe]

You will be paying $30. At least, that'll be the MSRP. More if they include the extra content that Blu-Ray will support. Especially Java applications that are part of the Blu-Ray spec and/or internet connectivity, which is also part of the spec.

Studios should be putting quite alot of exclusive content that we haven't seen before, although some will take the quick and dirty route.

$30 MSRP I can live with. That is what we paid for most DVDs when they first came out in 1997. But anything higher is just crazy. I didn't pay $35 MSRP for Fox's first releases on DVD, and I'm sure as hell not going to pay for movies at that price on BRD.

 

[Rhindle]

For those doubters, a more full explanation and the proof is in the pudding that it's starting in July.

No seriously, it ain't happening. All that's going on right now is contingency planning.

 

[Pimpwerx]

This announcement is just plain PR BS. The replicators couldn't be further away from being "ready to support BRD production."

Link please?

At least this one has a source, where's your evidence? I see you and aaaaa0 posting this stuff, but it's pretty thin on evidence.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. The disc is just that, a disc. It will be mass-produced, and well before the PS3 launches. Last I checked, the BR format wasn't being held-up by lack of media, it was these unification discussions that have held up BOTH HD-DVD and BRD. Toshiba has to see the writing on the wall now. Studio support is a red herring. Studios will support whichever format wins, as they aren't making the hw, they just stamp discs. And the discs won't cost that much, even starting off. I keep saying it, but it won't sink in. BRD will cost cents on the dollar in a year or two after it goes into production. If you expect to pay the same as DVDs, you're on crack. Expect $30 movies for the first year or so, until adoption rates pick up. Then, like DVDs and CDs before them, expect prices to decline gradually until you're seeing $10 specials on BRD/HD-DVD in a couple years...if not sooner.

Optical media is just a substrate that's stamped. The materials costs are all pretty much the same. The cost issues will be in the length of time needed to produce them (it'll vary, but will be marginal in a short time), and the amount of money needed to make those blue lasers for the rewriteable drives. That's BRD's real strength, it's use for DVR. HDTV DVR!!! HD-DVD sucks. No reason to make excuses for it unless you work for Toshiba. PS3 won't win the war for Sony by any means, even if it sells 100M units, but it will be the ultimate trojan horse, and will make HD-DVD's job much, much tougher. If there's a format war, expect hybrid players to become the norm quickly. But we'll all lose as a result, as neither format will win out, and users will be more likely to just stick to DVD. Toshiba better tuck tail and hop on-board now, or they might end up on the short end of what's ultimately gonna be a losing battle for both sides. I've posted this way too many times. PEACE.

 

[maharg]

DisC goddamnit.

 

[SKOPE]

But, that wasn't the reason for the loss.

Sony wanted WAYYY too much for other CE companies to license the Beta format and licensing VHS was SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive. Sony killed themselves there.

And restrictive content policies. You couldn't get pornography on Beta unless you made it yourself.

The superior quality of Beta was minimal at best and had more to do with running the tape faster than anything truly technical. With the lousy RF connections most people were using back then, you would not be able to tell the difference.

And couldn't you get 1 hour and 45 minutes per Betamax tape on SP?

Anyway, this PR doesn't (shouldn't) mean anything to consumers. Blu-ray discs may be ready for mass production, but that doesn't mean anything since we can't buy Blu-ray players for at least several months.