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[DarienA]

Being that you can MAKE it backwards compatible, I have no problem with that part of the technology now, but I still dont feel it will fare as well in the marketplace with joe average, who will look and see "HD-DVD" stamped on another unit and not have to wonder what it is. Blu-ray will have to be explained to anyone wanting to buy a unit, its that simple.

That's really not that big of a deal. Folks who come in to the electronics section of a store expect to have new technologies explained to them, right now most folks are still getting explanations of what HDTV, LCD, Plasma, DLP, etc.. all are...

 

[xabre]

Pretty much every major consumer electronics company has actually invested pretty heavily in the technology, as a matter of fact.

Well then that is very good to see

However what would such a format (storing one terabyte) really offer that formats like Blu Ray won’t when it comes to HD movies? Don't get me wrong, it'd be fantastic for storage but for movies I can’t help but think that such space would seem rather overkill honestly.

 

[meelk]

ALL(well not all :lol) Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players would be backward compatible with DVDs. Why is that so hard to understand? :lol

Amazing that people laugh about things like this now, when it was never speced as part of the technology to begin with, and simply became an issue they apparently addressed. I took a long hard look at Blu-ray years ago and backwards compatibility was nowhere in sight at that time. You can believe me or not, it really makes no difference to me on a gaming forum on the internet. I'm glad its fully backwards compatible now, thats great.
/end

 

[meelk]

That's really not that big of a deal. Folks who come in to the electronics section of a store expect to have new technologies explained to them, right now most folks are still getting explanations of what HDTV, LCD, Plasma, DLP, etc.. all are...

and who at wal-mart is going to explain the difference in blu-ray and hd-dvd to a consumer?

 

[DarienA]

and who at wal-mart is going to explain the difference in blu-ray and hd-dvd to a consumer?

Who at Wal-Mart is going to explain the difference in new projection TV technologies?

 

[Culex]

In Japan, RIGHT NOW, you can buy (for a price of course) Blu-Ray players with DVD/CD support. In fact, Sharp has their own hybrid player available NOW (not later, NOW).

 

[Nerevar]

Well then that is very good to see

However what would such a format (storing one terabyte) really offer that formats like Blu Ray won’t when it comes to HD movies? Don't get me wrong, it'd be fantastic for storage but for movies I can’t help but think that such space would seem rather overkill honestly.

:lol

now you're starting to sound like Toshiba!

 

[DarienA]

In Japan, RIGHT NOW, you can buy (for a price of course) Blu-Ray players with DVD/CD support. In fact, Sharp has their own hybrid player available NOW (not later, NOW).

I'm guessing the only reason this machine is dual drived is because of the DVD-RW capability?

 

[meelk]

Who at Wal-Mart is going to explain the difference in new projection TV technologies?

TVs all essentially do the same thing. You arent going to end up with a tv that in a years time wont show you a picture because it has no support. Theres a very big difference there.

 

[Culex]

I'm guessing the only reason this machine is dual drived is because of the DVD-RW capability?

Yep, in order to save money on their 1st generation product, they opted not to go dual head and went hybrid drive.

 

[DarienA]

TVs all essentially do the same thing. You arent going to end up with a tv that in a years time wont show you a picture because it has no support. Theres a very big difference there.

That's very true, the worst you'll get is a TV that requires you to purchase an additional piece to be able to receive HD transmission.

However this won't be the first time we've had competing media formats on the market, it's just been a very long time since it's happened at this level before.... and I still have doubts about HD-DVD even making it out the door in any large #'s... I expect it to go the route of the DIVX players.

 

[meelk]

being old enough to remember betamax, competing formats for something as large as the movie market is not a pretty sight. This wont end well. :|

 

[Culex]

Blu-Ray is already a winner in my eyes. Better, future-proof tech and the product is already in production.

You can import these players and discs from Japan, through Samsung and Sony. I wouldn't reccomend it, though, right now. You'll be spending about $2,000 dollars before importing fees!

HD-DVD can't even get their product into production yet. Show me where you can buy one.

 

[DarienA]

being old enough to remember betamax, competing formats for something as large as the movie market is not a pretty sight. This wont end well. :|

Being just as old I remember it as well... as do the movie company's which is why so many of them are hoping that one format doesn't make it too far out the gate....

 

[sonycowboy]

being old enough to remember betamax, competing formats for something as large as the movie market is not a pretty sight. This wont end well. :|

Nice to see that your earlier comment had no agenda :| You've simply jumped from argument to argument to argument hoping to find something that sticks.

BTW, the competing formats ended VERY WELL for VHS Sure, some consumers got burned by buying the Beta version of some movies, but the fight didn't actually last very long (and this one won't even go that long). The only thing you can say is that Beta lost and probably cost Sony it's pound of flesh (and a few dollars).

 

[DonasaurusRex]

yeah blu ray wins now that backwards compatibility is no longer an issue. The only advantage HD DVD has now is cost, and that wont be a big deal once PS3 is released and 40 bajillion blu ray discs are being produced. Taiwanese hardware makers are slightly leaning towards HD DVD rightnow though cause they will save money on upgrading. Or in other words they'll wait for japanese companies to take the plunge and make an even cheaper version 10 months later .

 

[Culex]

Nice to see that your earlier comment had no agenda :| You've simply jumped from argument to argument to argument hoping to find something that sticks.

BTW, the competing formats ended VERY WELL for VHS Sure, some consumers got burned by buying the Beta version of some movies, but the fight didn't actually last very long (and this one won't even go that long). The only thing you can say is that Beta lost and probably cost Sony it's pound of flesh (and a few dollars).

I'm sure Sony is going to do everything in it's power to make sure Blu-Ray succeeds.

 

[xabre]

:lol

now you're starting to sound like Toshiba!

Then it should be an easy question to answer...What can you do with the added storage of HVD in terms of movies that you can't do with Blu Ray?

Really, unless you're talking compilations of several movies or whole box sets on one disc such huge amounts of space are redundant for DVD esque single movies and some special features thrown in. A current HD feature length film encoded in an advanced codec like H.264 would be lucky to fill up 20GB's and still manage to look incredible, so what exactly are you going to do with the rest of that space? Not to mention that the effort on the part of the production studio to throw in enough content to actually fill up a terabyte sized disc would probably cost a fortune anyway.

Now in regards to Blu Ray and HD DVD the space difference is important, because feature length HD movies will go a long ways to filling up those discs, but a terabyte of space for movies? Pointless.

 

[sonycowboy]

Blu-Ray is already a winner in my eyes. Better, future-proof tech and the product is already in production.

You can import these players and discs from Japan, through Samsung and Sony. I wouldn't reccomend it, though, right now. You'll be spending about $2,000 dollars before importing fees!

HD-DVD can't even get their product into production yet. Show me where you can buy one.

They're not BD-ROM players, they're all recordable. It's also extremely unlikely that they'll ever play BD-ROM movies as they have no copy protection scheme built-in (forgetting the regional lockouts).

Folks who get those now are just getting a higher capacity / higher resolution DVD-R, but won't ever be able to be BD-ROM players.

 

[Culex]

They're not BD-ROM players, they're all recordable. It's also extremely unlikely that they'll ever play BD-ROM movies as they have no copy protection scheme built-in (forgetting the regional lockouts).

Folks who get those now are just getting a higher capacity / higher resolution DVD-R, but won't ever be able to be BD-ROM players.

This is true, although it's always a good thing to have a working product that you can tangibly improve on. If I had 2k to throw around, I'd want to buy one right now, for the storage alone.

 

[sonycowboy]

:lol

now you're starting to sound like Toshiba!

Not arguing the point. (not that you were replying to me )

More space is ALWAYS good. However, HVD isn't even close to being real. Studios are scared to death because of:

a) Rampant piracy of DVD
b) End of growth period of DVD sales / rentals (both are down this year, vs huge increases for the past couple of years)
c) The decline of the MSRP for DVD's, to where they're lucky to hold a $14.99 price point.

They want a new format as bad as you can possibly imagine. Not that they'll abandon DVD, as it will be the lions share of their revenue for some time, but they desperately need another income stream and something to succeed DVD in the next 2-3 years before the market gets substantially more stagnant.

 

[jarrod]

Much like lesser CD technology has been able to coexist alongside DVD for years now, there's no reason to think that Blu-Ray/HD-DVD couldn't coexist with HVD. And DVD. And CD.

No need to "Wait for HVD"

That's sort of questionable reasoning given CD and DVD's differing primary consumer applications (music versus film). Using that standard, BD/HD-DVD would be more in direct competition with DVD... besdies, it's not like VCD formats lasted long after DVD hit market or DVD-A/SACD took off with CDs around. New industry wide fuctionality seems vital to the survival of any new optical format really and BD/HD-DVD don't really have that compared to CD (music) or DVD (film).

HVD seems a bit different, as it's aimed more at professional markets than consumers.

 

[meelk]

Nice to see that your earlier comment had no agenda :| You've simply jumped from argument to argument to argument hoping to find something that sticks.

BTW, the competing formats ended VERY WELL for VHS Sure, some consumers got burned by buying the Beta version of some movies, but the fight didn't actually last very long (and this one won't even go that long). The only thing you can say is that Beta lost and probably cost Sony it's pound of flesh (and a few dollars).

I like you assessment that I have some "agenda" on a discussion forum. I'm far from "jumping from arguement to arguement hoping to find something that sticks", which sounds incredibly stupid and appears meaningless. I'm here for the discussion, you can agree with me or not. The superior attitude vibe I get from an incredible number of users on this forum is really sad. Its amazing the number of you who have learned to argue and never learned to discuss. If you want to comment, fine, if you want to add in little rude bits for your own enjoyment, feel free to keep them.

 

[Ponn]

being old enough to remember betamax, competing formats for something as large as the movie market is not a pretty sight. This wont end well. :|

Yea....it sure didn't end well for VHS did it.. Nope...No sirrrrrr....

HDDVD is just not going to make it out the gate. They really needed to hook up with MS on this one and missed that boat. They would have had just as good of advantage in name recognition and with Paramount and Universal on board it would have been a shoe in for them get rental support through Blockbuster.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

I like you assessment that I have some "agenda" on a discussion forum. I'm far from "jumping from arguement to arguement hoping to find something that sticks", which sounds incredibly stupid and appears meaningless. I'm here for the discussion, you can agree with me or not. The superior attitude vibe I get from an incredible number of users on this forum is really sad. Its amazing the number of you who have learned to argue and never learned to discuss. If you want to comment, fine, if you want to add in little rude bits for your own enjoyment, feel free to keep them.

meelk
Banned

:lol

 

[sly]

meelk

banned

:lol

Then it should be an easy question to answer...What can you do with the added storage of HVD in terms of movies that you can't do with Blu Ray?

Really, unless you're talking compilations of several movies or whole box sets on one disc such huge amounts of space are redundant for DVD esque single movies and some special features thrown in. A current HD feature length film encoded in an advanced codec like H.264 would be lucky to fill up 20GB's and still manage to look incredible, so what exactly are you going to do with the rest of that space? Not to mention that the effort on the part of the production studio to throw in enough content to actually fill up a terabyte sized disc would probably cost a fortune anyway.

Now in regards to Blu Ray and HD DVD the space difference is important, because feature length HD movies will go a long ways to filling up those discs, but a terabyte of space for movies? Pointless.

I think that reason alone is worth the extra space(personally)

 

[Culex]

meelk
Banned

Didn't see that coming... :lol

 

[Gattsu25]

]I like you assessment that I have some "agenda" on a discussion forum. I'm far from "jumping from arguement to arguement hoping to find something that sticks", which sounds incredibly stupid and appears meaningless. I'm here for the discussion, you can agree with me or not. The superior attitude vibe I get from an incredible number of users on this forum is really sad. Its amazing the number of you who have learned to argue and never learned to discuss. If you want to comment, fine, if you want to add in little rude bits for your own enjoyment, feel free to keep them.

meelk
Banned

:lol

:lol :lol

perfect timing

 

[Kintaro]

Studios are scared to death because of:

a) Rampant piracy of DVD
b) End of growth period of DVD sales / rentals (both are down this year, vs huge increases for the past couple of years)
c) The decline of the MSRP for DVD's, to where they're lucky to hold a $14.99 price point.

They want a new format as bad as you can possibly imagine. Not that they'll abandon DVD, as it will be the lions share of their revenue for some time, but they desperately need another income stream and something to succeed DVD in the next 2-3 years before the market gets substantially more stagnant.

a) Same thing will happen to Blu Ray.
b) Same thing...
c) Same thing...

You know, we gonna get another new format everytime this shit happens? I mean really...

 

[Culex]

You can believe me or not, it really makes no difference to me on a gaming forum on the internet.

:lol

I just caught that. Quick unban him!

 

[Panajev2001a]

That's sort of questionable reasoning given CD and DVD's differing primary consumer applications (music versus film). Using that standard, BD/HD-DVD would be more in direct competition with DVD... besdies, it's not like VCD formats lasted long after DVD hit market or DVD-A/SACD took off with CDs around. New industry wide fuctionality seems vital to the survival of any new optical format really and BD/HD-DVD don't really have that compared to CD (music) or DVD (film).

HVD seems a bit different, as it's aimed more at professional markets than consumers.

In some countries VCD is still way more popular than DVD can hope to be and no I am not referring to 5th world countries where everyone is uber poor .

 

[Doom_Bringer]

In some countries VCD is still way more popular than DVD can hope to be and no I am not referring to 5th world countries where everyone is uber poor .

hey its pana!! Long time no see mate.

 

[Ponn]

In some countries VCD is still way more popular than DVD can hope to be and no I am not referring to 5th world countries where everyone is uber poor .

4th world countries then? Seriously don't post something like that and then NOT say what countries you are talking about.

 

[jarrod]

In some countries VCD is still way more popular than DVD can hope to be and no I am not referring to 5th world countries where everyone is uber poor .

Only in regions where pirated or unofficial sales the norm though really. More secure consumer markets are fully DVD for film.

 

[jarrod]

4th world countries then? Seriously don't post something like that and then NOT say what countries you are talking about.

China and India would be the main ones I think. They're not 3rd world anymore (both having substantllay large and rapidly growing middle income classes), but they're hardly the primary intended market for BD/HD-DVD either. In those markets (Japan, USA, UK, etc) V-CD is all but dead unless you pirate.

 

[Ponn]

China and India would be the main ones I think. They're not 3rd world anymore (both having substantllay large and rapidly growing middle income classes), but they're hardly the primary intended market for BD/HD-DVD either. In those markets (Japan, USA, UK, etc) V-CD is all but dead unless you pirate.

I saw your post after mine and yea that's the only other countries I could think of. Like you said though their umm..economy...is a little different then Japan, USA, UK. And I wonder how much of those VCD sales actually make their way back to the rightful people.

 

[kaching]

That's sort of questionable reasoning given CD and DVD's differing primary consumer applications (music versus film). Using that standard, BD/HD-DVD would be more in direct competition with DVD... besdies, it's not like VCD formats lasted long after DVD hit market or DVD-A/SACD took off with CDs around. New industry wide fuctionality seems vital to the survival of any new optical format really and BD/HD-DVD don't really have that compared to CD (music) or DVD (film).

HVD seems a bit different, as it's aimed more at professional markets than consumers.

Nothing you're saying makes what I originally said "questionable", jarrod. At the end of the day, all of these optical formats are all just data storage formats with differing physical specifications. I wasn't talking about whether specific applications of those formats could coexist but whether the physical formats themselves could coexist. And the successful optical formats thus far have not been applied to only one application, despite there being one primary application that gets more marketing focus than others.

I do agree that a primary application is probably vital to the survival of a new optical format, but to say that BD/HD-DVD doesn't have one while claiming CD and DVD did even though there were popular, successful formats that already did serve up their respective primary application (music cassettes and VHS) is inaccurate.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Why don't they merge Blu-Ray and HD? HD-BluRay

 

[Reilly]

Why don't they merge Blu-Ray and HD? HD-BluRay

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$





$

 

[jarrod]

Nothing you're saying makes what I originally said "questionable", jarrod. At the end of the day, all of these optical formats are all just data storage formats with differing physical specifications. I wasn't talking about whether specific applications of those formats could coexist but whether the physical formats themselves could coexist. And the successful optical formats thus far have not been applied to only one application, despite there being one primary application that gets more marketing focus than others.

So you're arguing format co-existance without looking into the deeper reasons for that? It's possible for HD-DVD/BD to do that with DVD simply because DVD managed it with CD, nevermind why that is?

I do agree that a primary application is probably vital to the survival of a new optical format, but to say that BD/HD-DVD doesn't have one while claiming CD and DVD did even though there were popular, successful formats that already did serve up their respective primary application (music cassettes and VHS) is inaccurate.

I'd say the difference in physical mediums (from "tapes" to optical discs) plus the long transition periods made the format shift more pronounced for consmuers to CD/DVD, making any direct comparisons to BD/HD-DVD iffy at best. I also mentioned "industry wide" applications, which is another major stumbling block for all the HD formats as of today and kills any direct comparison here. Things may change in a year or two, but as of now these transitions are barely comparable.

 

[Piepz]

I want my $20 Movie on the best medium = Blue-ray

Sorry, you're not smart. And please change your avatar

 

[mrklaw]

betamax was technically superior, and backed by Sony - yet died in the consumer market. Basically due to rental VHS

This time round, neither will have an easy option like that. I think Warner is a real fly in the ointment here. They have a track record of being stubborn in the face of an obvious defeat, and this time they have clear financial incentives (i.e. a share of the license fees) to push HD-DVD

The only hope is for bluray to get everyone else behind them and leave Warner/Toshiba to risk a fight. If that happens I think Warner would cave because going exclusive HD-DVD would risk a lot of damage if it didn't pay off. But while there are other studios still technically support HDDVD, its going to drag on.

 

[sonycowboy]

betamax was technically superior, and backed by Sony - yet died in the consumer market. Basically due to rental VHS

This time round, neither will have an easy option like that. I think Warner is a real fly in the ointment here. They have a track record of being stubborn in the face of an obvious defeat, and this time they have clear financial incentives (i.e. a share of the license fees) to push HD-DVD

The only hope is for bluray to get everyone else behind them and leave Warner/Toshiba to risk a fight. If that happens I think Warner would cave because going exclusive HD-DVD would risk a lot of damage if it didn't pay off. But while there are other studios still technically support HDDVD, its going to drag on.

Warner is doing a second "launch" of mini-DVD's. :lol Despite now being outsold by UMD's tenfold in a fraction of the time on the market.

They are a stubborn bunch.

 

[DarienA]

Warner is doing a second "launch" of mini-DVD's. :lol Despite now being outsold by UMD's tenfold in a fraction of the time on the market.

They are a stubborn bunch.

I thought I read that recently somewhere... they've got alot of cash invested in mini-dvd.. they refuse to give that b*tch up...

 

[Flo_Evans]

Sorry, you're not smart. And please change your avatar

Do you just reply to threads to critique peoples avatars?

 

[mckmas8808]

HEY guys isn't Warner the one being stubbon with UMDs too? What is up with these guys? Do they not want to help Sony?

 

[Nerevar]

betamax was technically superior, and backed by Sony

not really. Sure, it had a larger color spectrum, but initially it could only record for 1 hour of time - VHS could record for two. That plus the higher licensing scheme that Sony wanted basically killed it. Who wants to try to record things if you can only record for 1 hour at a time (thus preventing easily recording movies off of tv)?

More space is ALWAYS good. However, HVD isn't even close to being real.

huh? It's about as real as HD-DVD at this point. The technology exists and is in pre-production. They're aiming for a 2007 consumer product (which they're currently on target to hit, I might add).

They want a new format as bad as you can possibly imagine.

Of course they do - that's why studios are pushing these formats. They want a "pirate-proof" medium (retarded, IMO) that they can charge a higher premium for and make more profit. This, coincidentally, is the only reason HD-DVD still exists - the lure of "lower manufacturing costs" means more money in their pocket. It also shows the studios aren't in it for the consumer, just themselves. HD-DVD hasn't taken off because none of the studios want to keep paying Warner for every DVD they release, not because blu-ray is a technically superior format. This is an important point that most people glance over in the whole Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$





$

?? There's money to be had on both sides. It's like if Bill gates ass ramed J. Allard for free and still was paid money.

 

[Deg]

In some countries VCD is still way more popular than DVD can hope to be and no I am not referring to 5th world countries where everyone is uber poor .

When i went South East Asia it was mainly DVD. Lots of pirated DVD. :lol Some VCD too especially on hard to get stuff. They told me VCD used to eb the main thing but now DVD players are cheaper.

 

[kaching]

So you're arguing format co-existance without looking into the deeper reasons for that? It's possible for HD-DVD/BD to do that with DVD simply because DVD managed it with CD, nevermind why that is?

For what I wanted to point out in the first place, that was sufficient. It's not as if DVD and CD are the only two formats to ever overlap each other successfully for a number of years. There's a tendency in these discussions about next gen optical formats to act like the only way these formats can succeed is in a strictly serial fashion, with no overlap. I was initially responding to that more than anything else.