Support NeoGAF

[Juice]

Microsoft will let people download all the music they have on iTunes for free after scanning your iTunes.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/06/microsoft-planning-wifi-enabled-portable-media-player-working-o/

To attract current iPod users Microsoft is going to let you download for free any songs you've already bought from the iTunes Music Store. They'll actually scan iTunes for purchased tracks and then automatically add those to your account. Microsoft will still have to pay the rights-holders for the songs, but they believe it'll be worth it to acquire converts to their new player.

:lol

Can't wait until someone publishes a batch script that repeatedly subscribes you and your library as a new user, for no reason other than to sap MS of money as they repeatedly pay content providers for the same songs over and over again.

Now that's an invasive daemon process I wouldn't mind running!

 

[mollipen]

Give it another 6 months and the 360 will support other formats. I even remember reading an interview where some of their tech guys said they were looking into it. As long as enough people bitch about it they will do it.

Or was it a video interview? Can't remember.

I will only believe this when I can have an Xbox 360 that can actually do such a thing.

MS is not giving up on pushing their crap WMV format, and I just can't believe that they would allow for support of other codecs. They see it a lot like Apple, unfortunately, sees it - the only content you should be wanting to play is either purchased or created by you specifically, and they'll sell you videos in WMV and push you to make all of your content in WMV.

I could see them breaking down and supporting MPEG4 if they decide to start supporting vidcasts on the 360, but at that point, I really think they'd push people to also offer a WMV version of the podcast. I dunno... I just don't see them backing down on this. If they aren't even going to let the 360 be a real media center without having to own a Media Center PC, I don't see them supporting non-MS brand formats unless they absolutely positively must (MP3, and AAC for iPod support.)

 

[xsarien]

I will only believe this when I can have an Xbox 360 that can actually do such a thing.

MS is not giving up on pushing their crap WMV format, and I just can't believe that they would allow for support of other codecs. They see it a lot like Apple, unfortunately, sees it - the only content you should be wanting to play is either purchased or created by you specifically, and they'll sell you videos in WMV and push you to make all of your content in WMV.

The iPod supports .aac, .mp3, .aif, .wav. and Apple Lossless. It can safely be argued that most people don't really deviate from those formats; the iPod isn't as closed as some would have you believe.

 

[jamesinclair]

Why I dont have an iPod:

Doesnt support subscription music
No FM radio
No built in mic


I currently have a Samsung that does a job. But if MS gets thsoe 3 things in theirs, Ill consider it.

I actually really like the Sandisk players, but they max out at 6GB I think.

 

[Nerevar]

You mean how the Xbox 360 supports things like MPEG2 and MPEG4? Oh wait...

It'll support WMA and WMV, and then MP3 because MS is forced to support MP3.

what are you blabbering on about?

Which file types are supported on Xbox 360 with Windows Media Center?

The following types of media are supported when using Windows Media Center with the Xbox 360 console:

Video

* Windows Media Video (WMV) 7, WMV 8, and WMV 9
o Maximum resolution of 1920x1080 (1080p)
o Windows Media Audio Standard or Windows Media Audio Pro audio
o WMV content may be Windows Media DRM-protected
* MPEG-1 with MPEG-1 layer I or II audio
* MPEG-2
o Maximum resolution of 1920x1080 (1080i)
o AC-3 or MPEG-1 layer I or II audio
* WMV Image 1 (Photo Story 1 & 2), and WMV Image 2 (Photo Story 3)

Audio

* Windows Media Audio (WMA) 7 through WMA 9
o WMA Standard content may be Windows Media DRM-protected
* WMA Professional
o WMA Professional content may be Windows Media DRM-protected
* WMA Lossless
o Windows Media DRM protected WMA Lossless is not supported
* MP3
* Other formats that have a DirectShow decoder installed on the host computer that outputs pulse code modulation (PCM) audio

 

[xsarien]

Why I dont have an iPod:

Doesnt support subscription music
No FM radio
No built in mic

To which my usual question is: If you want to listen to the radio at all, why do you want an iPod - or HDD-based player - in the first place?

 

[vitaflo]

Oh nice, so I can still buy all my music through iTunes, and then just download it again for free from MS's music store app.

Which is exactly why it won't happen.

 

[ConsumerSquare]

To which my usual question is: If you want to listen to the radio at all, why do you want an iPod - or HDD-based player - in the first place?

NPR, news, weather.

 

[dem]

looks like a pda... bleh

 

[scorcho]

To which my usual question is: If you want to listen to the radio at all, why do you want an iPod - or HDD-based player - in the first place?

why is it an either-or proposition? there are things available on radio (NPR's programming for instance) that some users (like me) would want to listen to live. is it some unspoken rule that all HDD-based players don't have FM radios?

 

[hadareud]

To which my usual question is: If you want to listen to the radio at all, why do you want an iPod - or HDD-based player - in the first place?

the same reason people watch tv channels even though they have a dvd player and lots of dvd's.

 

[xsarien]

why is it an either-or proposition? there are things available on radio (NPR's programming for instance) that some users (like me) would want to listen to live. is it some unspoken rule that all HDD-based players don't have FM radios?

Well, NPR does have a Podcast or three...
http://www.npr.org/rss/podcast/podcast_directory.php

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

FM is a legitimate desire, but it hardly seems worth skipping a player for when you can get a teeny FM player for like, $20 or less.

Recording, however, I can see.

By Subscription music, you mean like Napster?

 

[jobber]

To which my usual question is: If you want to listen to the radio at all, why do you want an iPod - or HDD-based player - in the first place?

I can tune in my satellite radio through FM frequencies and with FM recording, I can pirate without the mess of a computer. Not to mention the built in microphone. Great for meetings.

 

[White Man]

Oh nice, so I can still buy all my music through iTunes, and then just download it again for free from MS's music store app.

Which is exactly why it won't happen.

Yeah, the "We'll buy everything you got through iTunes" thing strikes me as something that will have a lot of fine print. They have to limit it somehow. I bet it only applies for 200 songs or something.

 

[LuCkymoON]

Well, NPR does have a Podcast or three...
http://www.npr.org/rss/podcast/podcast_directory.php

You must have miss the part where we like to to listen live...

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Yeah, the "We'll buy everything you got through iTunes" thing strikes me as something that will have a lot of fine print. They have to limit it somehow. I bet it only applies for 200 songs or something.

Yeah, or that guy who bought the 1 billionth song from iTunes, and won $10,000 to spend in the Music Store is going to jump to Microsoft quickly, just to hit 'em with a big bill. :lol

 

[White Man]

Yeah, or that guy who bought the 1 billionth song from iTunes, and won $10,000 to spend in the Music Store is going to jump to Microsoft quickly, just to hit 'em with a big bill. :lol

Is there a way to view all of your iTMS purchases? I'm definitely over 2 grand.

 

[scorcho]

Well, NPR does have a Podcast or three...
http://www.npr.org/rss/podcast/podcast_directory.php

i'll brush aside your failed attempt at wit. NPR's main staples of Morning Edition/Talk of the Nation/All Things Considered are not available free of charge through podcasts. and besides, considering they're all shows that emphasize live news reports and analyses, i'd much prefer to listen to them live than not. but hey, if you like listening to yesterday's news on the way home, more power to you.

considering your last few posts, you're really coming off as a really hardcore ipod apologist.

 

[aaaaa0]

You smell that?

More DRM.

Yeah, like iTunes store music doesn't have DRM.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Is there a way to view all of your iTMS purchases? I'm definitely over 2 grand.

Not that I'm aware of. I suppose it would be scanning for files with Apple's FairPlay DRM or something, but I'm really taking that part of the story with a huge grain of salt at the moment.

 

[Krypton Zod]

It doesn't take much to produce something better than an iPod (FM radio, microphone, ogg/divx/xvid support, sound quality), so as long as Microsoft delivers on what Apple ignores it should be good.

 

[White Man]

Not that I'm aware of. I suppose it would be scanning for files with Apple's FairPlay DRM or something, but I'm really taking that part of the story with a huge grain of salt at the moment.

I just did a spotlight search for anything with AAC in the metadata, which would be everything I purchased in iTunes. 3200+ audio files.

EDIT: MS won't give you Ogg or divx/xvid.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

It doesn't take much to produce something better than an iPod (FM radio, microphone, ogg/divx/xvid support, sound quality), so as long as Microsoft delivers on what Apple ignores it should be good.

Yeah. That's what Creative, Rio, and so many other manufacturers have been saying for the past few years. And yet, they have all fallen under the heel of Apple. MS is going to need to do something really special to catch the attention of the average consumer, because most people feel that in the world of MP3 players, there is the iPod and then there is everything else.

 

[reaver18]

Not Bill as a person. The Microsoft he ran was/is the one that tries to kill other companies rather than compete. I love the man for his charity. I'm also damn glad he's quitting to do more of it.

you'd do the same thing if you were in his position.

 

[xsarien]

considering your last few posts, you're really coming off as a really hardcore ipod apologist.

Yes, that's me! Mr. iPod apologist! There I am in every Apple thread, taking bullets left and right for my lord, master, and savior, Steve Jobs!

Or, if you take a step back for a moment:
Maybe it was a completely legitimate observation as most iPod users tend to buy the device so they can listen to their favorite music on their own time, not Clearchannel's.

 

[scorcho]

Yeah. That's what Creative, Rio, and so many other manufacturers have been saying for the past few years. And yet, they have all fallen under the heel of Apple. MS is going to need to do something really special to catch the attention of the average consumer, because most people feel that in the world of MP3 players, there is the iPod and then there is everything else.

Swank integration with WMP 11 will probably help, and i think that other players have failed more due to lax marketing and ponderous UI than anything else. if MS is committed to making headway in the portable music market, i can't see them not making an impact on name brand alone.

 

[emomoonbase]

The world needs more mp3 players. Thank god for this.

 

[neptunes]

if they aren't up to the quality of marketing apple has, then they won't go far.

 

[xsarien]

The world needs more mp3 players. Thank god for this.

The world has plenty, it's just that everybody's buying iPods instead.

 

[jobber]

Swank integration with WMP 11 will probably help, and i think that other players have failed more due to lax marketing and ponderous UI than anything else. if MS is committed to making headway in the portable music market, i can't see them not making an impact on name brand alone.

They've got to fix WMP11 first! (Yeah I know it's a beta). I use my vision M, which is one of the recommended players for WMP11, and when I drag over songs, the album covers don't transfer over on my player 95% of the time.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Swank integration with WMP 11 will probably help, and i think that other players have failed more due to lax marketing and ponderous UI than anything else. if MS is committed to making headway in the portable music market, i can't see them not making an impact on name brand alone.

Yeah, they'll have to nail the software integration right away, and offer something as slick as iTunes. And I agree that most companies that have failed against the iPod don't have the budget to put together a great ad campaign. I own a Rio Karma, and it's still a great player after all these years, but it never had a chance against the 'Pod.

I'm not sure if Microsoft's brand name will help them here or not. On the one hand, they're the clumsy Windows company that can't get Vista out the door, have all kinds of security issues, and haven't exactly excelled at human interfaces in the past. On the other hand, they have that slick Xbox 360 which has an awesome interface, a nice "cool" factor, and multimedia integration with your PC. It'll be interesting to see how this does, as othes have mentioned, hardwear isn't MS's strong point generally.

 

[scorcho]

Yes, that's me! Mr. iPod apologist! There I am in every Apple thread, taking bullets left and right for my lord, master, and savior, Steve Jobs!

Or, if you take a step back for a moment:
Maybe it was a completely legitimate observation as most iPod users tend to buy the device so they can listen to their favorite music on their own time, not Clearchannel's.

so an ipod apologist suddenly means that i likened you to a constant Apple defender? did i touch a sensitive nerve in your body?

how is Apple's codec support system not 'closed', when all they support are some obvious standards (wav, mp3, aac) and proprietary formats that are of no interest to those who don't use itunes (bookmarked-aac, drm-aac and lossless apple). where's ogg? where's flac? if customers aren't allowed to add their own codec or are severely limited by what they can play then it's considered 'closed'.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I don't envy anybody trying to compete with Apple in this market. To succeed, it will have to beat iPod on convenience, style, marketing, size and battery life (in that order).

Features-- like FM, and recording-- have never been the place to beat Apple. People clearly don't care enough about anything more than basic music playback enough to look beyonf Apple in significant numbers.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I don't envy anybody trying to compete with Apple in this market. To succeed, it will have to beat iPod on convenience, style, marketing, size and battery life (in that order).

Features-- like FM, and recording-- have never been the place to beat Apple. People clearly don't care enough about anything more than basic music playback enough to look beyonf Apple in significant numbers.

How about price? I think it has to be cheaper as well. If it comes in at the same price, the average consumer will probably go with the DAP they've all heard of.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

so an ipod apologist suddenly means that i likened you to a constant Apple defender? did i touch a sensitive nerve in your body?

how is Apple's codec support system not 'closed', when all they support are some obvious standards (wav, mp3, aac) and proprietary formats that are of no interest to those who don't use itunes (bookmarked-aac, drm-aac and lossless apple). where's ogg? where's flac? if customers aren't allowed to add their own codec or are severely limited by what they can play then it's considered 'closed'.

The lack of FLAC and OGG hardly makes it "severly limited." MP3 is by far the most common format, followed by WAV for raw sound files, and then by AAC, AAC-DRM and WMA. WMA is the only format with much of a base that is not suported.

OGG and FLAC are good, but they are far, far from popular and barely supported by any portable device.

[And if you really want, you can load Rockbox on your iPod and get those, too.]

 

[FightyF]

Personally I consider Microsoft's "Origami" to be the ultimate MP3 player.

Of course, it's quite expensive in comparison, but it's worth every penny as it just DESTROYS all other MP3 players.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

How about price? I think it has to be cheaper as well. If it comes in at the same price, the average consumer will probably go with the DAP they've all heard of.

I dunno. Probably. Price is certainly not at the top of the list, though, as cheaper iPod alternativees have been available most of iPod's life. The only iPods that I know of that's been competitive in the GB/$ department have been the 60GB models.

 

[scorcho]

Personally I consider Microsoft's "Origami" to be the ultimate MP3 player.

Of course, it's quite expensive in comparison, but it's worth every penny as it just DESTROYS all other MP3 players.

yes, by sheer size/weight alone.

 

[xsarien]

Personally I consider Microsoft's "Origami" to be the ultimate MP3 player.

Of course, it's quite expensive in comparison, but it's worth every penny as it just DESTROYS all other MP3 players.

My God, you actually bought one of those?

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

The lack of FLAC and OGG hardly makes it "severly limited." MP3 is by far the most common format, followed by WAV for raw sound files, and then by AAC, AAC-DRM and WMA. WMA is the only format with much of a base that is not suported.

OGG and FLAC are good, but they are far, far from popular and barely supported by any portable device.

[And if you really want, you can load Rockbox on your iPod and get those, too.]

Yeah, ask any average consumer what OGG or FLAC are, and see what kind of a response you get. They mean nothing to the average iPod owner. Ask an audiophile on the other hand...

My Rio Karma does both OGG and FLAC.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I dunno. Probably. Price is certainly not at the top of the list, though, as cheaper iPod alternativees have been available most of iPod's life. The only iPods that I know of that's been competitive in the GB/$ department have been the 60GB models.

Agreed, I just meant that I think Microsoft's device has to be at the same price or lower than the iPod and offer the other benefits as well.

 

[xsarien]

Yeah, ask any average consumer what OGG or FLAC are, and see what kind of a response you get. They mean nothing to the average iPod owner. Ask an audiophile on the other hand...

They'll tell all of the formats to go to Hell and not buy any player until the storage is big enough to support completely lossless audio.

 

[scorcho]

good thing the iPod doesn't support any lossless formats!

oh. wait.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

They'll tell all of the formats to go to Hell and not buy any player until the storage is big enough to support completely lossless audio.

:lol

 

[hadareud]

good thing the iPod doesn't support any lossless formats!

oh. wait.

there is no such thing as a lossless audio format atm. The source format is not lossless to beginn with.

 

[Ghost]

Stupid thing about built in wifi is that you'll end up paying for Hotspot air time if you want to buy tunes on the go, if MS can forego that charge (just with a direct link to Urge would be fine) id start to be interested.

They should also take advantage of all the Xbox stuff (downloadable videos/episodes/movies compatible with 360 and the xPod, Arcade games).

I want a widescreen video format too so that blurry thing isnt gonna cut it (unless you turn it to watch videos).



If they sort all that it'll be pretty high on my list of high-tech 'wants'.

 

[mollipen]

The iPod supports .aac, .mp3, .aif, .wav. and Apple Lossless. It can safely be argued that most people don't really deviate from those formats; the iPod isn't as closed as some would have you believe.

I'm talking video, not audio. We didn't get video on the iPod until Apple was selling videos themselves, because their opinion was that other than video you might take with a digital camcorder, there would be no video you could have legally that you'd want to put on an iPod - unlike music, where you can just rip the tracks from CDs.

what are you blabbering on about?

I knew somebody was going to prove me wrong. *heh* So you can, indeed, have an MPEG2 video file stream from a Media Center PC to an Xbox 360 and have it play? Or are we strictly talking streaming a DVD for playback?

If it is full support, that's nice, but that still doesn't change the fact that there's no MPEG4 basic support, no H.264 support, no Divx support, no Xvid support, etc. If Microsoft wants to have a "serious" portable media device, it has to play a serious list of the standard formats out there. And even if the Xbox 360 can handle MPEG2, I'm willing to bet this PMP won't.

Is there a way to view all of your iTMS purchases? I'm definitely over 2 grand.

In the iTunes search box, enter "Protected AAC".

 

[scorcho]

there is no such thing as a lossless audio format atm. The source format is not lossless to beginn with.

...

if you compress any bit of audio with any of the major lossless audio formats, then decompress the resulting file, it will be a bit-for-bit copy of the original without any transformation or degradation to any of the frequencies.

that's lossless.

thanks.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

wow, they are releasing a cell phone with out the ability to make phone calls. Neat.