BREAKING: Elon Musk buys social media platform X

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Chittagong

Gold Member
Musk cant ever do wrong everything else is fake news lalalala.i cant hear youuuu
Well, you got to give it to him that all the stuff he was egged on, like buying Twitter, firing 90% of the staff, and going all in on Trump, have turned massively successful for him personally - whether in terms of money or power. I think even here people were saying that Twitter will be worth so much less, and will crash or be overtaken by scams and other bad content.

I can’t quite picture his way out of the corner at Tesla where his politics and BYD have painted him, but then again, I didn’t really foresee the Twitter -> X -> Trump to victory -> power to reshape USA -> X.ai arch either.
 

MMaRsu

Gold Member
Well, you got to give it to him that all the stuff he was egged on, like buying Twitter, firing 90% of the staff, and going all in on Trump, have turned massively successful for him personally - whether in terms of money or power. I think even here people were saying that Twitter will be worth so much less, and will crash or be overtaken by scams and other bad content.

I can’t quite picture his way out of the corner at Tesla where his politics and BYD have painted him, but then again, I didn’t really foresee the Twitter -> X -> Trump to victory -> power to reshape USA -> X.ai arch either.
Yeah no shit donating to trunp got him into the white house.

Its disgusting

But I dont want to get into politics so Ill just leave the thread.
 
Elon’s pure, altruistic dreams always seem to involve massive increases in net worth and consolidation of power entirely into his own hands.
It feels really strange that the one person to step in and save the internet from government controlled censorship of legally protected speech would be a billionaire with as much social awkwardness as he has, and who conducts himself in that same us vs them needlessly antagonistic fashion that I hate to see anyone adopt as part of their personality. I wish there was someone else with power and resources who fought government censorship of social media, and who was less of a hypocrite when it comes to a number of things he's done and said. But no one else stepped up, so I guess we're stuck with Musk.
 

Boss Mog

Member
Elon’s pure, altruistic dreams always seem to involve massive increases in net worth and consolidation of power entirely into his own hands.
Only time will tell if Elon was a hero or a villain. His big mistake though is his overexposure. He should learn from guys like Soros, who do things from the shadows and not in the spotlight. None of these Tesla issues would be happening if he had just been a regular presidential advisor in the background like so many nameless ones before him.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
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Hero or villain, who can really say? Just a man with an ambitious dream, whispering in the ear of the king.
 

Hookshot

Member
So now he can use all of twitter (both new and old) as AI training for his AI stuff? And there's not much anyone can do about it because he owns all of it?
 
X isn't a publicly traded company, neither is xAI, they're both private. And anyway this isn't about money it's about Elon's dream "all-encompassing" app he wants to launch.
Yeah. They are already experimenting with streaming there too. But it will probably require a proper redesign to work properly. They might also shove it directly into Tesla and stuff.

BTW how BlueSky is doing? I remember the "exodus" from Twitter to BlueSky :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

Raven117

Member
Is that even legal? To pump the stock by buying something from yourself for 5x its market value?
Yes. But both entities have to be independently represented by different lawyers, non-conflicted board members, and third party valuations and fairness opinions must be issued (just for starters).
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Yes. But both entities have to be independently represented by different lawyers, non-conflicted board members, and third party valuations and fairness opinions must be issued (just for starters).
Pretty sure no third party valuations or opinions are required if shareholders are unanimous. They can basically agree whatever they want.

But if you have a dissenting shareholder, then you need to do that - minority shareholder protections are strong in many countries and you could end up in an expensive court case.

I think that’s the case here, the handful of X investors and the investors in X.ai, whoever they are, all had the same plan. In fact, this was probably the plan before any of them invested, and indeed a reason to invest.
 
It feels really strange that the one person to step in and save the internet from government controlled censorship of legally protected speech would be a billionaire with as much social awkwardness as he has, and who conducts himself in that same us vs them needlessly antagonistic fashion that I hate to see anyone adopt as part of their personality. I wish there was someone else with power and resources who fought government censorship of social media, and who was less of a hypocrite when it comes to a number of things he's done and said. But no one else stepped up, so I guess we're stuck with Musk.
There were a few places outside of twitter before musk took over. Twitter was basically the McDonalds of the internet.
 

a'la mode

Member
I think that’s the case here, the handful of X investors and the investors in X.ai, whoever they are, all had the same plan. In fact, this was probably the plan before any of them invested, and indeed a reason to invest.

That's not true; X investors and debtors such as banks have wanted to get rid of X positions for a long time but have had trouble doing so, because no one wanted to touch that stink with a long pole, and just plain write-offs would've been huge and bad. They were in between a rock and a hard place.

The plan to switch ownership in X into xAI was only recently developed by Saudi investors who had big positions in both, and any other X investors are just jumping in joy to have a pathway to get rid of X, but I have a feeling that when SEC is finally functional again, this will be investigated in more detail and potentially litigated.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
That's not true; X investors and debtors such as banks have wanted to get rid of X positions for a long time but have had trouble doing so, because no one wanted to touch that stink with a long pole, and just plain write-offs would've been huge and bad. They were in between a rock and a hard place.

The plan to switch ownership in X into xAI was only recently developed by Saudi investors who had big positions in both, and any other X investors are just jumping in joy to have a pathway to get rid of X, but I have a feeling that when SEC is finally functional again, this will be investigated in more detail and potentially litigated.
Interesting! I knew the first bit but not the Saudi intervention. Surprising if AI was not part of the original pitch. I guess controls of the world’s greatest country were enough then.
 

a'la mode

Member
Interesting! I knew the first bit but not the Saudi intervention. Surprising if AI was not part of the original pitch. I guess controls of the world’s greatest country were enough then.

Here are some details on the original Twitter pitch: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/06/technology/elon-musk-twitter-pitch-deck.html

Investors don't really care about politics aside from the potential risk to the value of their position, companies could grind newborn babies into a paste for all they care - at the end of the day, they want to put 10 dollars in, and get 100 back.
 
Elon’s pure, altruistic dreams always seem to involve massive increases in net worth and consolidation of power entirely into his own hands.
You can't blame Elon for bets that eventually paid off.
  • Nothing stopped other companies from investing more into EVs early. Even right now established companies like Honda, Huyndai, Mercedes, BMW etc. are lagging behind and gradually lose to much more effective and advanced chinese cars. Rivian is still lagging behind Tesla, all while in China you have EV companies popping up left and right. It also remains to be seen how it is going to develop with FSD in Tesla, despite people constantly mocking Musk for not using lidars.
  • SpaceX is the same story. SpaceX is the sole thing that keeps USA ahead of other countries in the space race. Without SpaceX it would be similar situation as Europe for example. Or at best like Blue Origin. Nothing stopped NASA (Boeing and co.) from developing reusable rockets earlier. And still there are no companies that do that outside of SpaceX.
  • With robotics, it remains to be seen. But for the example the Boston Dynamics seems to be more advanced, but so what if they cannot produce those robots enmasse (all while advocating for not using robots in the military)? Hope it works out with Optimus as otherwise USA will start lagging behind China. If it succeeds and Musk will be able to mass produce robots, then it will give the competitive advantage.
  • Starlink is also the same story. Satellite internet existed for years and years, but it failed to develop outside of specific use cases. Musk leveraged the reusability created by SpaceX and it became much cheaper to launch the satellites giving the huge advantage to USA in that regard too (as nothing comes close to Starlink still).
  • X story is hilarious. If Twitter did not try to censor people post 2020 election, the situation would not have escalated to a point where Musk decided to buy it. And even then, it was overpriced and Musk wanted to pull out of the deal. But the judge in Delaware (ironic) forced him eventually to buy it so he did. Who knew that later it would help with the election in 2024 against the state censorship machine?
  • People mock Musk for Neuralink, but what if the bet pays off later?
  • You can even joke about stuff like sentry mode in Tesla or Cybertrunk durability that helps to deal with the current domestic terrorists. I doubt he added that stuff predicting 2025 events.
And it all stacks together as aerospace technology provides some benefits to auto industry, and auto industry contributes to rocket production and so on. And all of that contributes to the overall technological progress of USA as reusable SpaceX + Tesla + Starlink + Neuralink allows to create the extremely sophisticated military stack as you will be able to build the space stations that produce weapons and drones in space that can deployed to the Earth from the space. All while operating these drone swarms (using Tesla swarm drone technology and FSD) using the commands sent (using Starlink) by the commander (that has a computer terminal for now or Neuralink chip in the future). Add AI on top of all of that and you get stuff straight from the movies like the Wandering Earth 2 (if we are talking the Hollywood shaping the mind with their LGBT stuff, China is doing something similar in their movies too though they lean more into scifi).
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Boston Dynamics is more advanced it seems,
In some ways, but Tesla is able to leverage its car self-driving tech for robot spacial awareness and navigation. Boston Dynamics has been doing pre-recorded sequences and focusing on the mechanics of movement until relatively recently. ML is highly applicable for robotics movement as well and doesn't require pre-set motions. It's possible for Tesla to leapfrog BD and seems likely at this point.

Re: the other companies, yes, all true and reasonable points. He is the highest impact and most successful entrepreneur of our time.

But we're talking about altruism here. I don't think it makes any sense to attribute that to someone merely for claiming it. The same could be said about Sam Altman, who until recently claimed he wasn't in it for the money until he was spotting driving a multi-million dollar hypercar in SF and then dropped those pretenses, and Sam Bankman-Fried who we now know via internal correspondence was very cynical about managing his reputation as a pure and noble idealist.

It's okay to want to be rich and powerful, but we should probably call out anyone who claims purely altruistic and noble motives at every opportunity when the bottom line is that they pursue wealth and power above all else.

Elon is cutthroat about control.
 
In some ways, but Tesla is able to leverage its car self-driving tech for robot spacial awareness and navigation. Boston Dynamics has been doing pre-recorded sequences and focusing on the mechanics of movement until relatively recently. ML is highly applicable for robotics movement as well and doesn't require pre-set motions. It's possible for Tesla to leapfrog BD and seems likely at this point.
If Optimus does what people expect from it, it will leapfrog BD for sure as its main drawback is indeed much more rigid movement but it can be addressed in time probably.

Re: the other companies, yes, all true and reasonable points. He is the highest impact and most successful entrepreneur of our time.
People call him Einstein, Tesla etc. But I personally compare him to Ford meets Edison meets "intuition". He does not invent the things himself but he has that uncanny ability to predict what might be necessary for the future (or how to reach it) and able to acquire it like Edison (patents vs getting researchers first) and streamline it like Ford. He even had involvement with OpenAI before OpenAI took off. And somehow it all works together nicely. Like before SpaceX, nobody even tried to apply automotive industry practices to civil aerospace industry (it kinda existed with the military industry and missile production pipelines, also planes, but it was not used for rockets because NASA was busy wasting federal money).

But we're talking about altruism here. I don't think it makes any sense to attribute that to someone merely for claiming it. The same could be said about Sam Altman, who until recently claimed he wasn't in it for the money until he was spotting driving a multi-million dollar hypercar in SF and then dropped those pretenses, and Sam Bankman-Fried who we now know via internal correspondence was very cynical about managing his reputation. It's okay to want to be rich and powerful, but we should probably call out anyone who claims purely altruistic and noble motives at every opportunity when the bottom line is that they pursue wealth and power above all else.
There is no indication that Musk is pursuing wealth and power at all. It is like becoming rich now by buying Nvidia stocks 10 years ago (or like Meta dropped to 200b evaluation 2 years ago and now it is higher than before again, growing like 6 times. Same with Netflix). He does what he wants and the bets pay off. Some bets do not pay off. Like people were laughing at the overpriced purchase of Twitter. Who is laughing now? And it is not like he is doing that by stealing other people's money either.

Elon is cutthroat about control.
Well if it works then it works. We have too many cases when not enough control amounted to catastrophes (hello, the federal government)
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
There is no indication that Musk is pursuing wealth and power at all.











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You're the one behind the wheel in the green hat. If you're going to do a drive by, at least honk the horn man.
 
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Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
In some ways, but Tesla is able to leverage its car self-driving tech for robot spacial awareness and navigation. Boston Dynamics has been doing pre-recorded sequences and focusing on the mechanics of movement until relatively recently. ML is highly applicable for robotics movement as well and doesn't require pre-set motions. It's possible for Tesla to leapfrog BD and seems likely at this point.

But that's the thing, BD just points the robot where to go and the mechanics are already automated... tesla's Optimus needs to be fully remote controlled, it's essentially a sci-fi marionette - we have footage from tesla's remote control stations and they're VR setups where the VR tracked movement and controls are replicated by the robot. Which means BD is much, much closer to an autonomous robot than Tesla.

When Hyundai bought BD the company was valued at 1.1 billion total - and they have robots that can walk , run, jump themselves how much worth is Optimus a robot tethered to a human on a VR puppeteering it?
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
BD just points the robot where to go and the mechanics are already automated
Only true for Spot in a general purpose sense. Atlas they've only shown autonomously navigating a very limited factory space for rudimentary pick and place tasks out of large, uniform receptacles, as far as I've seen.

Tesla was faking things via remote control for that recent presentation, yes, but they do have an advanced autonomous driving system for their cars. Boston Dynamics doesn't have the resources to build a comparable system.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Only true for Spot in a general purpose sense. Atlas they've only shown autonomously navigating a very limited factory space for rudimentary pick and place tasks out of large, uniform receptacles, as far as I've seen.

Tesla was faking things via remote control for that recent presentation, yes, but they do have an advanced autonomous driving system for their cars. Boston Dynamics doesn't have the resources to build a comparable system.

I think you underestimate how hard is to get a robot to do what Atlas does autonomously and how far ahead it is of the mechanical puppets Tesla likes to show in their events. But at this point time will tell.
 

Raven117

Member
Pretty sure no third party valuations or opinions are required if shareholders are unanimous. They can basically agree whatever they want.

But if you have a dissenting shareholder, then you need to do that - minority shareholder protections are strong in many countries and you could end up in an expensive court case.

I think that’s the case here, the handful of X investors and the investors in X.ai, whoever they are, all had the same plan. In fact, this was probably the plan before any of them invested, and indeed a reason to invest.
true, but I’m sure they got one to protect the board members who approved the deal for getting sued later on.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
I think you underestimate how hard is to get a robot to do what Atlas does autonomously and how far ahead it is of the mechanical puppets Tesla likes to show in their events. But at this point time will tell.
Robotics is a challenging domain, yes. Boston Dynamics has very impressive hardware able to replicate human movement, but autonomous navigation through space is primarily a software problem. Moving a widget from one bucket to another in a static, enclosed factory setting is not generalizable autonomy.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
It’s such a bummer that Hyundai acquired Boston Dynamics and not Tesla. While there is no doubt they will manage to scale it up big time, the combo of their hardware and Tesla intelligence would have been incredible.
 

a'la mode

Member
Robotics is a challenging domain, yes. Boston Dynamics has very impressive hardware able to replicate human movement, but autonomous navigation through space is primarily a software problem. Moving a widget from one bucket to another in a static, enclosed factory setting is not generalizable autonomy.

But all of it begs the question which no one really has a satisfying answer to - what is the supposed killer application of Tesla Optimus or generalized autonomy with today's tech? What could it actually do, besides be a fancy update of an old parlor trick? What value is that autonomous navigation through a space generating to industry?

BD robots for example have always had their designs and use cases be more specific and focused. Take military applications, receiving considerable funding and interest from DARPA. In recent years, BD has shifted away from their bipedals and quadripedals and designed factory floor robots that are more specialized (some even immobile), and more reminiscent of robots like welders and assemblers. Robots like that have a specific task or a niche they're targetting which is reflected in their whole design, and they're going to perform that particular task expectionally well.

Some tout Optimus as a factory floor application as well, but what's a bipedal robot to do there? It's not going to move things between assembly posts or rooms, as it can never compete with a length of conveyor or AGVs in efficiency or cost. It's not going to assemble, weld, sort, or paint anything, as it can never be as nimble and fast as today's 6DOF arms that just sit on the line. Tesla says it's good for repetitive and boring tasks, but how is it ever going to compete in speed and cost with the backbone of modern mass production, a line of Chinese workers?

It's also not a known quantity like today's factory equipment. Maintenance cost over time, end-user serviceability, etc are all big questions for real world factory applications. When stuff inevitably breaks (and it will), you want to have an inventory of spare parts inhouse and your own service people coming over sorting the problem out with manufacturer supplied service manuals and electrical diagrams, because you can't stop an assembly line to wait for device supplier people to come over the next week. You may be able to replace some worn mechanical parts, but a general purpose AI is inscrutable on the factory floor, and a service tech is unlikely to be able to tell why it's doing something wrong and fix it.

A generalized bipedal robot with today's tech is a solution looking for a problem, a cute sci-fi pipe dream that is still realistically decades away, always more inefficient and a worse choice at any given task than a robot specifically designed for that task. That is something Honda came to realize when they stopped development on Asimo.

From here onward, instead of being hung up on supporting people in every situation with one humanoid robot that has diverse capabilities, we will take the next step forward by striving to help people, in accordance with the time and situation they are in, by using various robots, each with distinct functions developed for more specific purposes.

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Tldr Optimus will be a commercial failure.
 

Coconutt

Member
Yeah no shit donating to trunp got him into the white house.

Its disgusting

But I dont want to get into politics so Ill just leave the thread.
Boo they have billionaires and had an unfair advantage the President was obviously bought out meanwhile...
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Fairly certain its been proven dems have way more billionaire donors than the other side. It's obvious both sides are not shy about taking money from their Billionaire donors so let's stop being hypocrites here.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Fairly certain its been proven dems have way more billionaire donors than the other side.

Are you serious?

The Republicans didn't get the reputation as the party of big business for nothing. Which party wants to reduce environmental and safety regulations? Which party wants to reduce the power of unions? Which party wants to privatize more of the public sector? Which party wants to give more tax cuts to those billionaires and lower the corporate tax rates of the companies those billionaires run? Which party wants to make it easier to donate unlimited amounts of money through Super PACs via court cases like Citizens United and other such means?

Now ask yourself what do billionaires like more? That stuff I just laid out or the opposite of that stuff?
 










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You're the one behind the wheel in the green hat. If you're going to do a drive by, at least honk the horn man.
Do you understand that the reason for that is the democrats starting to directly targeting his companies? It reached a point where FAA (or what was that organization) was blocking SpaceX from building more launchpads or suing for not hiring enough illegals. He did not even support Trump until 2024.
And bringing Twitter acquisition is hilarious considering that Twitter has been heavily engaging into censorship with the applause from the democrats and Musk decided that we did not need another Facebook, so he went to buy it but then decided to pull out when it turned out to be too expensive and in the end he was forced to buy. Highly doubt he went through all of it for his political ambitions lol

It’s such a bummer that Hyundai acquired Boston Dynamics and not Tesla. While there is no doubt they will manage to scale it up big time, the combo of their hardware and Tesla intelligence would have been incredible.
Does Huyndai is even doing anything to be ready to manufacture robots when they are ready? In case of Tesla, they also benefit from the technologies used in rocket engineering.

I am personally wondering what would happen if Musk stayed on OpenAI board. Could it benefit to the whole Tesla / SpaceX etc. stuff and he would not need to deal with Grok. Because it is pretty clear at this point that OpenAI models is not the selling point anymore.

One advantage that chinese companies have - like BYD for example - is their heavy vertical integration with cars, AI, mobile, chip production. In USA only Tesla has something like that, while companies like GM don't even know how to write proper software.

Are you serious?

The Republicans didn't get the reputation as the party of big business for nothing. Which party wants to reduce environmental and safety regulations? Which party wants to reduce the power of unions? Which party wants to privatize more of the public sector? Which party wants to give more tax cuts to those billionaires and lower the corporate tax rates of the companies those billionaires run? Which party wants to make it easier to donate unlimited amounts of money through Super PACs via court cases like Citizens United and other such means?

Now ask yourself what do billionaires like more? That stuff I just laid out or the opposite of that stuff?
Republicans stopped being the party of big business since long time ago. Businesses love power and republicans haven't had power for years and years. Democrats accumulated so much power that at this point almost every (if not every) industry has been supporting democrats - from traditional hollywood to big tech. Hell, even the military industrial complex stopped being republican's forte and switched to democrats. Big pharma? Democrats. Republican influence has been on decline for years and years, and arguably only Trump was kinda able to bring them to power again (and again). GOP has been a lame duck pushover for years with the only support from Israeli lobby but that's it.
 
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Toons

Member
Only time will tell if Elon was a hero or a villain. His big mistake though is his overexposure. He should learn from guys like Soros, who do things from the shadows and not in the spotlight. None of these Tesla issues would be happening if he had just been a regular presidential advisor in the background like so many nameless ones before him.

Oh my friend time has already told whether he's the hero or the villain.

Time will tell whether history is on the side of the villain or not is the real thing. Its happened before.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Do you understand that the reason for that is the democrats starting to directly targeting his companies? It reached a point where FAA (or what was that organization) was blocking SpaceX from building more launchpads or suing for not hiring enough illegals. He did not even support Trump until 2024.
And bringing Twitter acquisition is hilarious considering that Twitter has been heavily engaging into censorship with the applause from the democrats and Musk decided that we did not need another Facebook, so he went to buy it but then decided to pull out when it turned out to be too expensive and in the end he was forced to buy. Highly doubt he went through all of it for his political ambitions lol


Does Huyndai is even doing anything to be ready to manufacture robots when they are ready? In case of Tesla, they also benefit from the technologies used in rocket engineering.

I am personally wondering what would happen if Musk stayed on OpenAI board. Could it benefit to the whole Tesla / SpaceX etc. stuff and he would not need to deal with Grok. Because it is pretty clear at this point that OpenAI models is not the selling point anymore.

One advantage that chinese companies have - like BYD for example - is their heavy vertical integration with cars, AI, mobile, chip production. In USA only Tesla has something like that, while companies like GM don't even know how to write proper software.


Republicans stopped being the party of big business since long time ago. Businesses love power and republicans haven't had power for years and years. Democrats accumulated so much power that at this point almost every (if not every) industry has been supporting democrats - from traditional hollywood to big tech. Hell, even the military industrial complex stopped being republican's forte and switched to democrats. Big pharma? Democrats. Republican influence has been on decline for years and years, and arguably only Trump was kinda able to bring them to power again (and again). GOP has been a lame duck pushover for years with the only support from Israeli lobby but that's it.
Does a fail state for your Elon defense exist? What would it take for you to admit that he was pursuing wealth and power, purely theoretically speaking?

Cult deprgramming takes several years of asking questions and listening so I'm not optimistic. But we're all here if you ever want to ask questions.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
A generalized bipedal robot with today's tech is a solution looking for a problem, a cute sci-fi pipe dream that is still realistically decades away, always more inefficient and a worse choice at any given task than a robot specifically designed for that task. That is something Honda came to realize when they stopped development on Asimo.
The whole point of moonshot projects is to advance what "today's tech" means. Asimo was a novelty item. ML and CV are far enough along now that building a viable operating system is possible.

Elon's stated timetables and price point for consumer release of Optimus are absurd, however.
 

Toons

Member

Someone else said it here a long while ago.

If there was an 80s action film and a character in the movie was doing the exact stuff musk has been doing the past few months, no one would have any confusion about whether or not he's the bad guy. We'd just be waiting for the movies hero to deliver justice.

I dont know what he did for you to earn your undying loyalty but hes made it clear where his lies repeatedly, and it isn't with you or with me. Thats undeniable.
 
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