Zathalus
Member
Hey, if you're fine with not having a stable 60fps and sub 1080p resolution then you do you.
Borderlands 4 Launches To Mostly Negative Steam Reviews Over Performance Issues And Crashing
cash_longfellow
Member
You should troll harder just to show us all how uneducated you are about the game on consoles right now.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Link?
Zathalus
Member
Trolling? So DF are lying when they say the game has performance problems on PS5?
Or is this video making up the performance drops (down to 45fps, out of VRR range) during combat:
That's not even in the endgame where there are way more enemies and effects on screen.
Sure, it's better on PS5 Pro and it holds an almost locked 60 but so does a 4070 at 1440p/DLSS Quality and (thanks to DLSS instead of TSR) that looks better as well.
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LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Can confirm with the settings that I went from covering at around 53 to 55 and a certain area to 68 to 70. And I didn't even go as low as him because I have a $9,800 x 3D and a 4090. I actually left some stuff on the highest when it looked like it was a negative impact. Now if I had like a 570 or something like that and I want to push that extra one to 5%, I would totally go for just one notch lower but definitely recommended and when they don't make that much of a difference and they keep it well above a solid 60, I consider it a major plus. And some of the settings you recommends just because we have the highest of hardware doesn't make me too proud of the term certain things off like the fog..
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CuNi
Member
I cannot believe I witness a moment in time where a game series like Borderlands, whose first entries ran on what felt like a potato back then, now literally choke the top-tier GPUs while not even delivering 60fps constant without DLSS or FrameGen on everything maxed out.
And the worst of it all, they don't even look good enough to justify that performance!!
And the worst of it all, they don't even look good enough to justify that performance!!
Zacfoldor
Member
They did the exact same shit with BL3. It took months of optimization but eventually it ran great on console and I assume PC. I had been playing BL2 in prep for BL3 and was super hyped and then disappointed at how the game ran compared to BL2. I suspected they had a good game here but was also worried the same thing would happen again.
It's like Dragon's Dogma 2. The first one followed the same path until it got the BBI xpak and then became great. DD2 could become great. So could BL4 but the question is will anyone forgive them for launching in a bad state.
nnytk
Member
Crazy thing is that the original game still looks rather cool.
Borderlands could have doubled down on the cell shading and maybe even some low poly aesthetic. But the series evolved towards this Unreal Engine aesthetic that leans closer to Destiny 2 than anything they've done.
Kind of meh, especially if it doesn't perform as it should.
phant0m
Member
They did the exact same shit with BL3. It took months of optimization but eventually it ran great on console and I assume PC. I had been playing BL2 in prep for BL3 and was super hyped and then disappointed at how the game ran compared to BL2. I suspected they had a good game here but was also worried the same thing would happen again.
It's like Dragon's Dogma 2. The first one followed the same path until it got the BBI xpak and then became great. DD2 could become great. So could BL4 but the question is will anyone forgive them for launching in a bad state.
There's 188,000 people playing it right now. Peak players over the weekend are 2.5x the launch peak of the beloved BL2.
Most people, myself included, have played it for 10+ hours and are having a great time.
Sometimes GAF and Reddit need to touch grass
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I've realised why so many people aren't happy with the performance in Borderlands 4. This game is clearly made for high end hardware in mind and what's more even if you own a good PC, Gearbox (developer) still wants you to use DLSS. Because of that scaling down the resolution and detail doesn't deliver massive performance gains, so if you have a weaker GPU, or one that doesnt support modern AI features (the vast majority if radeon cards), you won't get a good experience even at lower resolutions and with low details.
Here's 1080p DLAA (native) screenshot at the lowest settings. Even at such a low resolution and the lowest settings, the game only runs at 136 fps. The second screenshot shows 133 fps at high settings, but at much higher image quality and settings thanks to DLSS (DLSSP+FGx2, to be precise). If I played this game at 1080p with the lowest settings without DLSS, my experience wouldn't be very good, so AI is really a must in this game.
More results 1080P native, high settings
1440p DLSSQ, High Settings
1440p DLSSQ + FGx2, high settings
4K DLSSQ, High settings
Now, before someone tells me that this game proves UE5 is an unoptimised mess and cant run well without AI, here's my screenshots from other UE5 games at 4K native without any AI.
Robocop 4K DLAA high settings
33fps in borderlands 4 (native DLAA high settings) vs 85fps in robocop is quite a big difference and both games use UE5.
And If someone says that robocop isnt open world game, here's mafia
Mafia 4K DLAA high settings
And here's Cronos with the lowest settings at native 4K, 236fps. This game runs almost twice as fast as borderlands 4 even at 4x higher resolution (Borderlands 4 runs 133fps at 1080p with the lowest settings).
Cronos at 1440p, nearly 400fps
Here's 1080p DLAA (native) screenshot at the lowest settings. Even at such a low resolution and the lowest settings, the game only runs at 136 fps. The second screenshot shows 133 fps at high settings, but at much higher image quality and settings thanks to DLSS (DLSSP+FGx2, to be precise). If I played this game at 1080p with the lowest settings without DLSS, my experience wouldn't be very good, so AI is really a must in this game.
More results 1080P native, high settings
1440p DLSSQ, High Settings
1440p DLSSQ + FGx2, high settings
4K DLSSQ, High settings
Now, before someone tells me that this game proves UE5 is an unoptimised mess and cant run well without AI, here's my screenshots from other UE5 games at 4K native without any AI.
Robocop 4K DLAA high settings
33fps in borderlands 4 (native DLAA high settings) vs 85fps in robocop is quite a big difference and both games use UE5.
And If someone says that robocop isnt open world game, here's mafia
Mafia 4K DLAA high settings
And here's Cronos with the lowest settings at native 4K, 236fps. This game runs almost twice as fast as borderlands 4 even at 4x higher resolution (Borderlands 4 runs 133fps at 1080p with the lowest settings).
Cronos at 1440p, nearly 400fps
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Stop shilling for this game. It has tons of stutters, is unstable, and prone to crashing on PC. It even has a memory leak on consoles according to many users.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
Shilling? I buy games with my own money and do what I always do: share my honest opinions. No one is paying me to share my thoughts on games. I didnt play console version, so why should I complain about performance on consoles? That's a problem for console users. You are angry that this game runs well on my PC, and you would want me to complain? Sorry but I'm not conformist.
Rather than telling me what to do, why don't you contribute to this discussion by sharing your opinions on the game and your screenshots? You supposedly play on a high-end PC, yet I've never seen you contribute any screenshots or impressions to a discussion.
I shared screenshots of each setting (including optimized settings shared by gearbox), so that people with similar hardware could see what to expect. I also explained the problems I initially had, because the game ran terribly for about few minutes. Once the game had finished whatever it was doing in the background, my frame rate improved and the game started running well. Gearbox warned that something like that could happen when you first start the game. They also mentioned that even changing the graphics settings can trigger this behaviour, causing a drop in performance for a few minutes before it returns to normal. YouTubers often adjust their graphics settings to demonstrate how performance varies across different settings, but in this particular game doing that may show performance of the game from the worst case scenario, when game is trying to swap the assets quality and recomplile shaders in the background. I saw gameplay at 1080p when stronger card had sub 60fps dips. I tested exactly the same location and fight exactly the same enemies yet I had higher framerate (75-80fps) with exactly the same settings.
Youtuber "zwormz" complained a lot about borderlads 4 optimization in his videos, but when he tested the RTX5080 in this game and used optimized settings to get 140fps (4K DLSSP + FGx2, 18m50s in the video below), he said the game offer amazing experience and image quality with this settings. If he had spent more time playing with these settings and allowed the game to compile the shaders for most enemy types, even stuttering starts to be unnoticeable (I noticed them at first, but not now). So, yes, the reality is that if you play this game on the right hardware and with the right settings, the experience is actually good on PC. This may be disappointing for people with weaker hardware, but that's just the way it is. Gearbox made borderladns 4 for high end hardware and they also expect people to use DLSS. Salles will reveal whether it was a good or bad decision.
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OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
It'll be 20 bucks in a few months, so I'll wait. These games always drop in price quickly
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Ummm Im sorry to tell you but no it didnt. It wasn't until it was patched for PS5 and XSX that it finally performed decently on console. No game caused my Xbox One X to crash more than BL3 did.They did the exact same shit with BL3. It took months of optimization but eventually it ran great on console and I assume PC. I had been playing BL2 in prep for BL3 and was super hyped and then disappointed at how the game ran compared to BL2. I suspected they had a good game here but was also worried the same thing would happen again.
It's like Dragon's Dogma 2. The first one followed the same path until it got the BBI xpak and then became great. DD2 could become great. So could BL4 but the question is will anyone forgive them for launching in a bad state.
Borderlands 3 still stutters pretty badly on PC.
It's certainly playable and is mostly OK on my 4090 and 5070 Ti systems, but not remotely stable or consistent.
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YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Yep there it is. Games release broken and take months of patching to right the ship.They did the exact same shit with BL3. It took months of optimization but eventually it ran great on console and I assume PC. I had been playing BL2 in prep for BL3 and was super hyped and then disappointed at how the game ran compared to BL2. I suspected they had a good game here but was also worried the same thing would happen again.
It's like Dragon's Dogma 2. The first one followed the same path until it got the BBI xpak and then became great. DD2 could become great. So could BL4 but the question is will anyone forgive them for launching in a bad state.
By then ofcourse nobody even cares anymore.
Solarstrike
Member
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Majima Everywhere System
Member
The game runs about as well as Randy's fat wife.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No, I'm annoyed at you being dismissive. "Randy Pitchford is right. It runs well on my PC,". And then acting like those for whom the game doesn't run well don't have legitimate grievances. Alex from DF shared footage of the shader compilation-induced stutters. Almost every reviewer I saw mentioned the game crashing on PC. That's to say nothing of the bugs and other instability issue. People aren't bitching just to bitch, so you sitting there and acting like there's no issue because it runs "fine" by your standards is what I have a problem with. It's the typical "runs fine on my PC" defense.
I do this all the damn time, but not with this game because I refuse to support it. What I do in these instances is look up reputable reviewers and link their relevant tests/impressions. I linked the benchmarking optimization guide.
That's the second most powerful card on the market. Here is how it runs at Low settings at 1080p on an RTX 3060.
It doesn't come even close to maintaining 60fps, unless you flip on DLSS Q. Does Low settings with an internal res of 720p on a mainstream card like the 3060 make sense to you?
Here it is at 1080p Medium DLSS Q, unable to maintain 60fps.
And you're seriously going to side with Randy "The Magician" Pitchford when GN, benchmarking, DF, and HU all agree "this game performs like shit on PC".
roosnam1980
Member
Truthtellers
Member
Flawless on PS5Pro
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
There's no Pro version. It's the exact same as the PS5 one running at a higher frame rate because of its better specs.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
proandrad
Member
Pro owners are premium gamers.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I always try to understand other people's perspectives, and I certainly don't dismiss the problems people are having, but it seems you only read what you want to see in my posts.
I linked DF video where they talked about performance problems on the PS5. I menioned my own issues on PC (when I started the game for the first time performance was terrible) and I also acknowledged that some people are having constant crashes (for some strange reason these are mainly 5090 users). I however cant ignore my own experience and I had no crashes whatsoever.
I tested many graphics settings in borderlands 4 and concluded that performance in this game does not scale linearly with resolution and graphics presets. With DLSS I get comparable experience at 1080p / 1440p / 4K. This means that the game can only be enjoyed on a high-end PC. I emphasised that in my post by saying that I probably wouldn't be happy playing Borderlands 4 on a weaker PC. From the perspective of 3060, 4060 and Radeon users, this game is a mess, and these people have a right to complain.
You are showing me videos on GPUs close to minimum system requirements and this only proves what I said. This game will run badly on weak GPUs. I linked to the same YouTuber as you and when "zwormz" tested RTX 5080, he had positive impressions when he used DLSS and "benchmarking" optimized settings (high settings would have given him a similar framerate though
). He even said that Randy was right about DLSS, because when you use DLSS the game is enjoyable. Are you going to attack him too, for saying the truth?The RTX5080 is not the 2'nd fastest GPU on the market. You supposed to be gaming on the RTX 4090, so have you forgotten about your own card?
Reviewers probably played the game without day 1 patch, and I heard the game was running much worse before the day one patch. One reviewer said that the game runs 40fps at 1440p on his 4080 with medium settings and he had to use FGx2 to play at over 60fps. On my RTX4080S the game runs around 75fps with high settings at 1440p DLAA (native), 100fps with DLSSQ, and 165-190fps with FGx2 on top of that, so it seems the game is running much better now.
I watched Alex Battaglia's (Digital Foundry) first impressions of Borderlands 4. As usual, he complained about stuttering, but he also said that he had only played the game for a very short time. I'm assuming that he tried changing the graphics settings a lot and in this particular game changing grahpics settings will trigger problems. I noticed some stuttering and poor performance when I first started the game , but soon framerate doubled and I cant say that suttering in this game bothers me. Perhaps if I played with the frametime graph turned on, I would notice some spikes there and there, but if I cant notice problems with my naked eye I'm not going to look for problems and complain about them. I played UE5 games where stuttering was indeed a real problem for me (SH2, TES4 Oblivion), but stuttering in Borderlands 4 isnt nearly as bad and didnt affected my experience. Of course that's only my opinion and feel free to tell me that I have no standards since Alex Battaglia complained and showed you frametime graph. That must mean that everyone should repeat his words and complain about stutters, right?
My opinion is based on my own experience of playing borderlands 3. You haven't played the game, yet you try to pretend to know better than me how the game must run on my PC just because you watched YouTube videos.
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Kenpachii
Member
Nice found the video he used for optimisation
Gona use that on my 5080 rig when i get the game at the end of the month.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Popularity has no bearing on quality, and comparing it to BL2's playerbase at launch doesn't make a lot of sense - Steam in 2012 vs Steam today is a massively different marketplace.
I don't really have a horse in this race, but that's not a particularly convincing argument.
phant0m
Member
We really busting out the 2nd lowest model on a 5 year old architecture?
GOT EM!!!
Why don't we stick a GTX 670 in there and complain it only gets 15 fps?
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Huh, yeah, a PS5-tier GPU with a more modern architecture.
Why don't you stop writing stupid shit? That GPU supports every modern feature on the market. It plays Black Myth Wukong on Medium settings and native 1080p in the heaviest areas and gets ~50fps. Well over 60 with DLSS Quality. In this piece of shit game, it runs low settings at 45fps and Medium 1080p DLSS Quality doesn't get you 60fps.
The old GPU argument is weak.
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Corporal.Hicks
Member
I tested benchmarking optimized settings, but they arnt that much different from medium settings preset to be honest. I get 72fps with his settings, and 72fps with ingame medium settings preset. I even prefer standard medium settings, because BenchmarKing recomments reflections at low settings and that's too big visual compromise IMO. On the other hand, the medium settings have lower grass density compared to his settings, so for the purpose on this comparison I increased the grass density to high. It's only 1fps cost. You can call my settings Corporal.Hick recommended settings
"Badass" settings for reference - 4K DLSSQ
BenchmarKing settings - 4K DLSSQ
Corporal.Hick recommended settings (Medium settings preset plus grass density at high) 4K DLSSQ
I also recorded my gameplay. Sorry for the quality (I placed my phone camera next to PC), but it's late night in Poland and I wanted to make quick vidoe. However, I might record higher-quality gameplay tomorrow with a mirrorless camera. I turned off FG for this video because it makes frametime hard to read.
I thought the game runs great on my PC and stutters didnt bothered me, but if neogaf guru Alex Battaglia said this game must be stuttering then he must be right and I simply have very low standards like
Gaiff
said. I'm glad I have such low standards, though, because I don't want to obsessively look at the smallest spikes on the frame time graph (like Alex Battaglia does) ; I just want to have fun playing games.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Glad you think it runs great, but you got a 5080, a card that's almost twice as powerful as what's inside the PS5 Pro. This performance says a lot more about the 5080 than it does about the game, which runs like junk on a wide variety of configuration.I thought the game runs great on my PC and stutters didnt bothered me, but if neogaf guru Alex Battaglia said this game must be stuttering then he must be right and I simply have very low standards like
Here is Frontiers of Pandora running at 1080p High/ DLSS Quality on an RTX 3060 and maintaining 60fps+.
You guys seriously try to shift the blame onto the consumer or parts. We got examples of games running MUCH better that also look better.
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Dalbajobas
Member
Yeah ...but that's not a PREMIUM game !
SunnySideGuy
Member
Where the hell is this pc patch for UE crashes I can't stand it anymore lol.
Celcius
°Temp. member
Borderlands® 4 :: Steam Community
"We're reading every piece of feedback you share. We know some PC players are running into bugs and crashes. We hear you. Updates to improve stability and performance already started rolling out over the weekend and another is coming this Thursday. This is our top priority."
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Corporal.Hicks
Member
Borderlands 4 requires an RTX 2070 graphics card as a minimum and the thing is, the RTX 3060 offers similar performance to the RTX 2070 (2fps difference based on 25 games tested according to techpowerup). Bearing this in mind, YouTubers testing the RTX3060 in Borderlands 4 should not be surprised by poor performance when running the game on minimum requirements, because minimum settings usually mean you can forget about 60 fps.
I can understand why so many steam users still use RTX3060, because it's not a bad GPU. My previous GPU GTX1080 was even slower than the RTX3060, yet I could still run many PS5 ports at 1440p 60fps. Unfortunately Gearbox decided to make their new game with high end hardware in mind and they made clear that people will need the RTX3080 to play their game with decent framerate and image quality. The RTX 3080 was a high-end graphics card until recently, and even now, not many gamers have equally powerful card (RTX3080 is twice as fast as the standard PS5). It seems that Gearbox created a game for a very limited number of PC gamers, which has upset many people. But don't blame me for enjoying this game, because I have totally different perspective and I dont need to worry about performance in this game (although without DLSS only 1440p would offer great experience)
As for your linked video, 'zWORMz' had to use both FSRQ and FGx2 to achieve 80–90 fps at 1080p in this RTX3060 test in Avatar. Without FSR he had 30-40fps. If zwormz would test ultra settings, not to mention Unobtanium settings (badass equivalent) the game would probably run as bad as Borderlands 4.
We certainly have examples of less demanding UE5 games than borderlands 4 (Robocop runs at around 70-85fps at 4K native, Borderlands 24-28fps), but the scale of the levels is not same. Levels in borderlands are huge compared to other UE5 games and that might explain difference in requirements. Also, the lighting in Borderlands 4 is just incredible (especially volumetric lighting).
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Except I never once "blamed" for enjoying the game. I took issue with siding with Randy Picthford and against the consumers because it runs great on your 5080. Of course, it does, it's a 5080.
The minimum specs are immaterial because they never specified the target. BL4 is a shooter, so most expected 1080p/60 low settings on a 2070…but it turns out it's for 1080p/30. With the visuals on offer, no wonder people are pissed.