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Boxing Discussion

Y

YaGaMi

Member
Thanks guys. Probably watch the Klitschko documentary next. Never heard of HBO's Legendary Nights, maybe because I'm in the UK.

I've seen an old Sugar Ray Robinbson one on Youtube. Is there any recent ones on him?
 
J

jimbor

Banned
El Idiota said:
Tomorrow Deontay "Can Crusher" Wilder fights against Malik Scott in a WBC eliminator match. It's Wilder's first serious opponent, although Scott got knocked out by Chisora last year and isn't "world class" quality. Anyway, will probably disappoint like virtually every heavyweight fight the past two years.
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The knockout against Chisora was exceedingly soft. He rose on 9 instead of 8 and got counted out. Looked like he wasn't interested rather than hurt. Wilder should get rid of him quickly.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
El Idiota said:
Tomorrow Deontay "Can Crusher" Wilder fights against Malik Scott in a WBC eliminator match. It's Wilder's first serious opponent, although Scott got knocked out by Chisora last year and isn't "world class" quality. Anyway, will probably disappoint like virtually every heavyweight fight the past two years.
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I was just going over Wilder's record on boxrec. Wow, that is some crappy opposition. It's really saying something when Seth Mitchell's record puts his to shame.

Oh well, I never mind watching him knock people out on undercards. And maybe he'll still develop some proper skills yet.
 
X

x Power Pad Death Stomp x

Member
Wildturds opposition is pretty embarrassing. Scott always comes to not do enough to win, so I could see him lasting a few rounds and then Wildturd gasses and one of Scotts pitty pat punches takes him out. Like a Kiltchko/Purity deal.
 
I

illmatic22

Banned
perineumlick said:
Damn! What a round with JuanMa and Ponce De Leon! Kinda early stoppage I think though.
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It was early, but De Leon wasn't fighting back, he turned into a punching bag.



De Leon was actually doing a good job of working the jab and picking his shots, but after that knockdown he got desperate to finish Juanma, and he should have learned from their first fight, that if they get into a war, Juanma is faster and stronger than him, and he just can't afford that.

De Leon needs to quit, and Juanma isn't really back, he just bought himself a couple of extra paydays, but at least we got an entertaining fight.
 
I

illmatic22

Banned
Wilder is a bad man, I don't care who you are, he lands that right straight, its bed time. My god. I want him and Fury in the ring, so I can watch Fury go into a coma.
 
I

illmatic22

Banned
I had Danny by a round. Herrera really impressed, but he landed a bit more, but Danny had him beat in power punches, by a big margin. Did not enjoy the cheerleading by Showtime's commentators for Herrera, volume isn't everything. The most effective shots were landed by Garcia, so I don't feel like this is a robbery, though I certainly understand the frustration fans may have,

My reasoning for Garcia's win:

Herrera landed only 17 punches more than Garcia.

Danny landed 150 power punches to Herrera's 82.

I don't see how you score jabs higher than power punches.
 
U

UrbanDandy

Member
illmatic22 said:
I had Danny by a round. Herrera really impressed, but he landed a bit more, but Danny had him beat in power punches, by a big margin. Did not enjoy the cheerleading by Showtime's commentators for Herrera, volume isn't everything. The most effective shots were landed by Garcia, so I don't feel like this is a robbery, though I certainly understand the frustration fans may have,

My reasoning for Garcia's win:

Herrera landed only 17 punches more than Garcia.

Danny landed 150 power punches to Herrera's 82.

I don't see how you score jabs higher than power punches.
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What's the difference between power punches and regular punches?
 
H

harSon

Banned
El Idiota said:
Unless Scott has the weakest chin in heavyweight history that's likely not a regular KO (unless I missed something and he hit his temple). There were plenty of people saying that Scott would lay down for Wilder before the fight and this won't change it. Maybe it's a real KO, maybe not, but we're still as clueless as before. That said, it smells like a fixed fight.

In other news, Adamek has surprisingly lost (clearly) against Glazkov.
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Eh, it doesn't look too bad when you slow it down and zoom in: http://www.badlefthook.com/2014/3/1...ks-out-malik-scott-but-did-the-punches-really
 
X

x Power Pad Death Stomp x

Member
P

perineumlick

Member
Garcia lost that fight. I was surprised at how good Herrera was; never saw him fight before. Not an exciting fighter, but he's well skilled with a great jab and solid chin. Sadly he had to knock Danny out to win, and he doesn't have much pop.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
perineumlick said:
Damn! What a round with JuanMa and Ponce De Leon! Kinda early stoppage I think though.
Click to expand...

illmatic22 said:
It was early, but De Leon wasn't fighting back, he turned into a punching bag.

De Leon was actually doing a good job of working the jab and picking his shots, but after that knockdown he got desperate to finish Juanma, and he should have learned from their first fight, that if they get into a war, Juanma is faster and stronger than him, and he just can't afford that.
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What an exciting fight while it lasted but I agree that it was a poor stoppage. De Leon was clearly badly hurt (as evidenced by the punches he threw at the ref as he was being stopped) but I feel like the ref could have waited 10 seconds more in order to let the fight reach a more decisive conclusion. You never know if a fighter is going to recover in that situation. That said, replays show that Juanma was landing clean straight punches so there is definitely an argument that the stoppage was valid.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
illmatic22 said:
Wilder is a bad man, I don't care who you are, he lands that right straight, its bed time. My god. I want him and Fury in the ring, so I can watch Fury go into a coma.
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BadAss2961 said:
That had to be a dive.
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illmatic22 said:
Ok, either Wilder is that strong, that grazing Scott's temple was enough, or Scott took a dive. The magic of slow mo.
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BadAss2961 said:
You can tell that even the commentators aren't convinced.

I like Wilder, but this guy took a dive.
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El Idiota said:
Unless Scott has the weakest chin in heavyweight history that's likely not a regular KO (unless I missed something and he hit his temple). There were plenty of people saying that Scott would lay down for Wilder before the fight and this won't change it. Maybe it's a real KO, maybe not, but we're still as clueless as before. That said, it smells like a fixed fight.

In other news, Adamek has surprisingly lost (clearly) against Glazkov.
Click to expand...

harSon said:
Eh, it doesn't look too bad when you slow it down and zoom in: http://www.badlefthook.com/2014/3/1...ks-out-malik-scott-but-did-the-punches-really
Click to expand...

x Power Pad Death Stomp x said:
The left def landed. Malik Scott sucks. Wilder is still untested/overhyped. His people would do him wonders if they got him one or two fights with someone durable who could give him rounds. I'm not saying it has to be even a top 15 guy, but the dude needs to go rounds. Oliver McCall still around?
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El Idiota said:
Thanks for the GIF. You're right, he hits him well. Oh well, still wouldn't be shocked if that was all fixed, but at least he hit him.

Isn't his next fight against the winner of Stiverne/Arreola? I doubt they're gonna give him a serious test before that one. That said, a first round knockout against Scott is still respectable.
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I don't buy that it was a legit KO. I usually ignore the conspiracy theories that pop up around the sport but I just don't buy that he was physically hurt and rendered unable to continue by those punches.

Yes, both punches impacted to some degree but there was no significant sound when they landed and Scott's head did not seem to be shaken by the punches. Also, the replays show that Scott eyes seem to be completely clear/focused as he went down.

I don't know if it was a fix, if it had to do with the two fighters' friendship, or if Scott simply retired on his own out of fear, but I do not buy that the KO was legit.

x Power Pad Death Stomp x said:
Still no questions answered about Wilder. That looked kinda shady too
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I was really looking forward to this fight. It's a shame that Wilder remains untested. I know it's unlikely, but I would love to see him take an interim fight before he faces the Arreola-Stiverne winner. I want to see him go on ESPN and just dance around the ring for 12 rounds. It is so maddening that he's never been past 4. We know so little about him and yet he is getting a title shot.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
Syphon Filter said:
Dam they kinda robbed mauricio. Should be tie at best.
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perineumlick said:
Garcia lost that fight. I was surprised at how good Herrera was; never saw him fight before. Not an exciting fighter, but he's well skilled with a great jab and solid chin. Sadly he had to knock Danny out to win, and he doesn't have much pop.
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I thought Garcia won but I can understand why there are dissenting opinions. Herrera made the fight ugly. His entire "offense" was focused on disrupting Garcia's offense and not on trying to do damage. Garcia consistently landed harder (albeit clubbing) shots while Herrera consistently landed more jabs with the occasional "power shot" peppered in. I could see this being scored 8-4 either way; different judges look for different things.

BadAss2961 said:
Power punches or not, Garcia clearly took more damage in addition to being outlanded.

Garcia and his camp know they escaped.
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I disagree. Herrera's jabs marked up Garcia's face but IMO Garcia landed much harder shots over the course of the fight.

illmatic22 said:
I had Danny by a round. Herrera really impressed, but he landed a bit more, but Danny had him beat in power punches, by a big margin. Did not enjoy the cheerleading by Showtime's commentators for Herrera, volume isn't everything. The most effective shots were landed by Garcia, so I don't feel like this is a robbery, though I certainly understand the frustration fans may have,

My reasoning for Garcia's win:

Herrera landed only 17 punches more than Garcia.

Danny landed 150 power punches to Herrera's 82.

I don't see how you score jabs higher than power punches.
Click to expand...
I agree with this completely. Herrera largely succeeded at disrupting Garcia's offense but he never seemed to try or succeed to land anything with weight behind it.

I thought it was fitting that Malignaggi was so strongly supportive of Herrera as there are a lot of similarities in the way that they fight. Malignaggi isn't likely to score knockdowns in what remains of his career, let alone KOs. His viewpoint on the sport is inherently biased in that regard. He thought Herrera won for the same exact reasons that he still argues that he beat Broner.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
UrbanDandy said:
What's the difference between power punches and regular punches?
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I believe what you are asking about is the difference between power punches and jabs. In terms of technique, a jab is punch thrown by flicking out your lead hand. Most of the motion comes from the shoulder and arm so the strength in your legs doesn't play a role and your body's weight is not behind the impact of the punch. Basically the jab is a tool used to disrupt your opponents flow and to enable you to land heavier shots.

The most common power shots are the straight right and left hook (the hands are reversed in the case of left handed fighters). The root of their motion is in your legs so you can get a lot more of your body into the punches. Here's one way of thinking about this: a power punch can be like getting hit by a car, where as a jab can be like getting hit by someone opening a car door into you,

As far as punch stats are concerned a "power punch" is any punch that isn't a jab, which is one of the key reasons that punch stats are so flawed. A jab essentially can't be used to hurt an opponent where as a power punch can be used to hurt an opponent. Though that doesn't mean that every power punch has actual power behind it or that every power punch lands cleanly.

Garcia-Herrera is a clear example of this. Garcia had a clear advantage in 'power shots' but very few of them landed cleanly. I still think he deserved to win but the limited quality of those shots is the reason that the decision is somewhat controversial.
 
O

OriginalThinking

Member
Tom_Cody said:
A jab essentially can't be used to hurt an opponent where as a power punch can be used to hurt an opponent.
Click to expand...

One jab on its own probably won't hurt an opponent, but repeated jabs accurately delivered can, and absolutely do cause real damage.

Though I'm sure you know this, it just doesn't come across that clearly in your post.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
OriginalThinking said:
One jab on its own probably won't hurt an opponent, but repeated jabs accurately delivered can, and absolutely do cause real damage.

Though I'm sure you know this, it just doesn't come across that clearly in your post.
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Getting hit with jabs obviously isn't fun but I was trying to explain the context for the distinction between jabs and power shots. To be more clear, by hurt I meant the potential to concuss/knocked-down/knocked-out.

There are a lot of exceptions to this but that kind of distracts from the main point. Yes, if a fighter gets hit by a few hundred jabs this can lead to an accumulation of damage (especially in the heavyweight division). Yes, jab knock downs do happen but this almost always relates to the falling fighter being off balance. Yes, jabs can land like power shots if fighter put their entire body into it but a punch like this is less a true jab and more a power punch utilizing the lead hand.

Boxing is complicated. I was just trying to explain the distinction.
 
U

UrbanDandy

Member
Tom_Cody said:
I believe what you are asking about is the difference between power punches and jabs. In terms of technique, a jab is punch thrown by flicking out your lead hand. Most of the motion comes from the shoulder and arm so the strength in your legs doesn't play a role and your body's weight is not behind the impact of the punch. Basically the jab is a tool used to disrupt your opponents flow and to enable you to land heavier shots.

The most common power shots are the straight right and left hook (the hands are reversed in the case of left handed fighters). The root of their motion is in your legs so you can get a lot more of your body into the punches. Here's one way of thinking about this: a power punch can be like getting hit by a car, where as a jab can be like getting hit by someone opening a car door into you,

As far as punch stats are concerned a "power punch" is any punch that isn't a jab, which is one of the key reasons that punch stats are so flawed. A jab essentially can't be used to hurt an opponent where as a power punch can be used to hurt an opponent. Though that doesn't mean that every power punch has actual power behind it or that every power punch lands cleanly.

Garcia-Herrera is a clear example of this. Garcia had a clear advantage in 'power shots' but very few of them landed cleanly. I still think he deserved to win but the limited quality of those shots is the reason that the decision is somewhat controversial.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It makes sense now.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
Syphon Filter said:
Undercard is set for May 3rd:

Amir Khan vs Luis Collazo
Adrien Broner vs Carlos Molina
jleonlove vs Marco Antonio Periban


Will be good!
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I'm not complaining.

The Khan-Collazo fight is a pretty decent cross roads fight.

I'm happy that Broner's people showed some sanity in the wake of the Maida loss. He's young, let him rebuild and recover.

J'Leon Love looked decent in his last two fights but I don't think he has a super amount of potential. And he doesn't really have anyone to fight on Showtime.
 
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