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Boxing Discussion

Asking for Olympic testing doesn't automatically taint fighters; it's when they fail it, or make crazy excuses for not taking them, that the reps take a hit. Regardless of what happened between Floyd and Pac, more stringent testing is a good thing for the sport. If both fighters are clean, then how is one put at a disadvantage by being tested? Who cares if no one previously asked for Pac to take the tests? If he is clean, why should there be a problem if the top fighter in the sport asks him to take the tests?

The accusations of Pac being on PED's came before the negotiations started. I want to say they originated from Floyd Sr during the period when he wasn't actively working in Floyd Jr's camp. It was those comments that started the rumor mill which gave Floyd Jr the ability to ask for the blood tests without everyone thinking that it was a baseless reach.

The blood test then became another point of negotiation contention. How, when, who's doing the testing, how often all become factors. These details are leveraged against other negotiation points such as HBO vs. Showtime, purse percentages, PPV points, specific weight limits, etc... All of it a game to try to gain advantage whether it be monetarily or whether it be throwing your opponent off in his training by having him cut an extra pound or have to stop what he's doing immediately and randomly to show up to a facility to have blood taken. It's not just about physical advantages inside the ring, it's mental and financial too.

And sure, if everyone is tested more closely, then everyone (in theory) is clean. Which is great. But Lance Armstrong is proof enough that testing doesn't guarantee clean athletes if they put enough effort and money into beating a test. These athletes all know this already. It's a part of the sport to them. All the extra testing does is cost more money, interrupt their training more, and becomes another box to check during negotiations. Especially when we're talking setting up a match between rival promoters.
 
So testing is bad, is that what you are saying? It's like you're insinuating that boxers know how to pass the tests, so why bother?
Lamont Peterson
Andre Berto
Roy Jones jr
James Toney
Evander Holyfield
And the list goes on; these guys are all stars in the sport, and they all fucked up and got caught somehow. Pacquiao never lost his popularity, and the only money he lost out on was the Floyd fight, so it's not like the testing controversy had an adverse affect on his career. I don't see where Olympic testing is some weapon that can be used in negotiations, and I don't see where it can be disruptive to training; both fighters have to deal with the same conditions.
 
They're never fighting each other, this is all pointless.

Manny is fighting the Marquez/Alvarado winner and Jim Lampley was clearly trying to hype up a Pacquiao/Bradley 3 at the end of the PPV. I know nothing says a trilogy is needed like one fighter winning 21 of 24 rounds in the first two fights.

Floyd is going to fight Amir Khan next if Khan wins his next fight. All the twitter sparring and whatnot will be used as backstory for their "feud"
 

Tom_Cody

Member
So testing is bad, is that what you are saying? It's like you're insinuating that boxers know how to pass the tests, so why bother?
Lamont Peterson
Andre Berto
Roy Jones jr
James Toney
Evander Holyfield
And the list goes on; these guys are all stars in the sport, and they all fucked up and got caught somehow. Pacquiao never lost his popularity, and the only money he lost out on was the Floyd fight, so it's not like the testing controversy had an adverse affect on his career. I don't see where Olympic testing is some weapon that can be used in negotiations, and I don't see where it can be disruptive to training; both fighters have to deal with the same conditions.
I agree completely. It is an open secret that a large percentage of top boxers use PEDs. Testing is only a good thing if you want a level playing field. Kudos to fighters like Bradley.

They're never fighting each other, this is all pointless.

Manny is fighting the Marquez/Alvarado winner and Jim Lampley was clearly trying to hype up a Pacquiao/Bradley 3 at the end of the PPV. I know nothing says a trilogy is needed like one fighter winning 21 of 24 rounds in the first two fights.

Floyd is going to fight Amir Khan next if Khan wins his next fight. All the twitter sparring and whatnot will be used as backstory for their "feud"
I just want to chime in and say that I would be happy to see another Pacquiao-Bradley in 18 months or so. Bradley looked sensational in the rounds that he won on Saturday night. And, for what it's worth, I would personally put the score at more like 16 to 8 of 24 (still not close, but yeah).

Bradley and Pac both have ripe rematch options in the fall in Provodnikov and Marquez respectively. Let's see who wins those fights and who else is added to the mix in 2015. I'm guessing somewhere in there a 3rd fight with Bradley will make sense.
 

Heel

Member
Sat, Apr 19 at 9:30 PM on SHOWTIME

Bernard "The Alien" Hopkins vs. Beibut Shumenov
Shawn Porter vs. Paulie Malignaggi
Peter Quillin vs. Lukas Konecny

io7jen8c3Mdg7.gif
 
Sat, Apr 19 at 9:30 PM on SHOWTIME

Bernard "The Alien" Hopkins vs. Beibut Shumenov
Shawn Porter vs. Paulie Malignaggi
Peter Quillin vs. Lukas Konecny

io7jen8c3Mdg7.gif
Lol; Denzel is that dude.

That sounds like a good night of boxing. I don't know Konecny; gotta look him up.
 
So testing is bad, is that what you are saying? It's like you're insinuating that boxers know how to pass the tests, so why bother?
Lamont Peterson
Andre Berto
Roy Jones jr
James Toney
Evander Holyfield
And the list goes on; these guys are all stars in the sport, and they all fucked up and got caught somehow. Pacquiao never lost his popularity, and the only money he lost out on was the Floyd fight, so it's not like the testing controversy had an adverse affect on his career. I don't see where Olympic testing is some weapon that can be used in negotiations, and I don't see where it can be disruptive to training; both fighters have to deal with the same conditions.

What I'm saying is that more stringent testing does not guarantee clean fighters so to act like it would is disingenuous. It's not a solution and it would only make it marginally harder to pass tests for the very top fighters, which are the only guys who could afford to beat the current tests if they wanted to. The only way I could think of to get close to a guaranteed clean sport would be for year round random testing by a neutral party and that would be incredibly invasive and expensive.

And testing can easily be used as a negotiation point depending on the fighter. For a guy like Floyd, it wouldn't bother him much as he's acclimated to training and performing regardless of distractions. Not all fighters are capable of that. It's no different than negotiating a lbs or two lower than usual against a guy who already struggles to make weight. It's a factor that can be used in an attempt to gain an edge.

And accusations of PED usage can and does damage a fighters legacy and when we're talking about guys at the very top of the sport, a legacy is important. If it wasn't nobody would care about GOAT and P4P lists.
 

Tekniqs

Member
I'm not talking about the time off he took after he beat Hatton, I'm talking about the time he took off after the Mosley fight which was almost two years.

With the whole drug testing, yes, he does have a right to demand it, but for 30 plus fights he never had a problem with only being tested by the commission, why now all of a sudden? Floyd is not the first fighter to ask for random blood and urine, but back then demanding random drug testing wasn't as common as it is now, which is probably why it felt like such a crazy demand at the time.

k, it's the two years (really only 16 months) after Mosley but then your whole thing about "floyd only expressed interest after pac struggled with JMM" is bullshit because obviously Floyd wanted the fight with Pacquiao BEFORE he fought Mosley. so which is it? your whole premise of Floyd only expressing interest to fight Pacquiao after JMM got robbed in the third fight is falling apart.....

You know, I really don't know why he did ask for more stringent drug testing. Sr. was the first to publicly insinuate that Pac was dirty and he possibly influenced Floyd's decision to ask for better testing, but I don't see how increased testing is a bad thing. IF anything, it benefits the sport as a whole.
 
So now that we've seen Pacquiao learn from his KO defeat at the hands of JMM (as witnessed this past Saturday night against Bradley), do you think that JMM would be able to KO him again?, because other than that punch, Pac had all the rounds won. I think Pacquiao would win convincingly enough.

...But i'd much rather see Pac vs Mayweather, a man can dream right?
 
Sat, Apr 19 at 9:30 PM on SHOWTIME

Bernard "The Alien" Hopkins vs. Beibut Shumenov
Shawn Porter vs. Paulie Malignaggi
Peter Quillin vs. Lukas Konecny

io7jen8c3Mdg7.gif

Nice matches here. Going to be awesome next few months for boxing fans. May 3rd especially with 2 great undercards. June with Cotto vs Martinez and July canelo vs lara.
 
So now that we've seen Pacquiao learn from his KO defeat at the hands of JMM (as witnessed this past Saturday night against Bradley), do you think that JMM would be able to KO him again?, because other than that punch, Pac had all the rounds won. I think Pacquiao would win convincingly enough.

...But i'd much rather see Pac vs Mayweather, a man can dream right?

You do know that Pac was knocked down twice in that fight?

I had him losing the first 3 rounds, coming back in the fourth with a knockdown (I think it was the fourth), coming on strong in the fifth, and looking at the back of his eyelids in the 6th.
 

Tekniqs

Member
So now that we've seen Pacquiao learn from his KO defeat at the hands of JMM (as witnessed this past Saturday night against Bradley), do you think that JMM would be able to KO him again?, because other than that punch, Pac had all the rounds won. I think Pacquiao would win convincingly enough.

...But i'd much rather see Pac vs Mayweather, a man can dream right?

lol did you even watch the 4th fight between pac/jmm?
 

TuXx

Member
k, it's the two years (really only 16 months) after Mosley but then your whole thing about "floyd only expressed interest after pac struggled with JMM" is bullshit because obviously Floyd wanted the fight with Pacquiao BEFORE he fought Mosley. so which is it? your whole premise of Floyd only expressing interest to fight Pacquiao after JMM got robbed in the third fight is falling apart.....

You know, I really don't know why he did ask for more stringent drug testing. Sr. was the first to publicly insinuate that Pac was dirty and he possibly influenced Floyd's decision to ask for better testing, but I don't see how increased testing is a bad thing. IF anything, it benefits the sport as a whole.

I don't have a problem with increased drug testing. Boxing obviously needs it more than any other sport since human beings are being hit, but what I'm trying to say is that Floyd obviously had concerns moving forward with a Pacquiao fight since that was the first time out of 30 plus fights he asked for random blood. If he had zero concerns fighting Manny Pacquiao, he would have fought him with the same type of drug testing he had against all his other opponents.

And during that whole time period, Floyd was getting bombarded by the fans and media to fight Pacquiao to the point where he had to take time off. Even after team Pac said they would do random blood and urine, Floyd was still cautious about Pacquiao since the failed negotiations heightened his fears that he wasn't a clean fighter. It was only until after the third Marquez fight where Floyd made an aggressive push to make the fight happen. Calling Manny on his phone, challenging him on twitter, why didn't he do this during the 16 months he took off?
 

Tekniqs

Member
I don't have a problem with increased drug testing. Boxing obviously needs it more than any other sport since human beings are being hit, but what I'm trying to say is that Floyd obviously had concerns moving forward with a Pacquiao fight since that was the first time out of 30 plus fights he asked for random blood. If he had zero concerns fighting Manny Pacquiao, he would have fought him with the same type of drug testing he had against all his other opponents.

And during that whole time period, Floyd was getting bombarded by the fans and media to fight Pacquiao to the point where he had to take time off. Even after team Pac said they would do random blood and urine, Floyd was still cautious about Pacquiao since the failed negotiations heightened his fears that he wasn't a clean fighter. It was only until after the third Marquez fight where Floyd made an aggressive push to make the fight happen. Calling Manny on his phone, challenging him on twitter, why didn't he do this during the 16 months he took off?

Maybe Floyd really thought Pac was on something? it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Pac was dirty (I don't think he was). People die in the ring. He kept saying all he wanted was to be on even playing field.

Roach is on video stating it was their fault the first negotiations fell apart. After Floyd fought Shane, he made it clear that it was up to the fight testing or no fight at all. He took the 14days offer off of the table. Pac made it clear they weren't going to move from the 14 day cut off so there really was no need to negotiate again since he wasn't going to agree to up to the fight testing.

you keep harping on like FLoyd was scared prior to seeing JMM get robbed during the 3rd pac/jmm fight. Floyd was ready to fight Pac when he was at his most dominant. He had the his gear made for the fight already as well. The orange and black outfit he wore for Ortiz was what he had made for the Pacquiao fight.
 
These guys (Floyd and Pac) might as well be on completely different planets when you think about the camps they are in and the networks/promotions they are a part of. You might as well be asking WB and Marvel to agree to make a Batman/IronMan movie. For the record I don't think either guy was ever afraid of the other. These guys are professional fighters that's what they do. I think it's always been an issue of ego and money.
 

jimbor

Banned
Collazo is 3/1 to beat Khan with the bookies over here (UK). Think I'm going to put a large amount on that, kicking myself that I didnt bet when he was 5/1. Extremely generous odds and I can't see anything other than a Khan loss here.
 

jimbor

Banned
khan will destroy collazo.

Khan hasn't destroyed anyone for a long time and Collazo is the wrong opponent for his first Foray into Welter. There's an outside chance he could stop Collazo with a body shot but outside of that I find it hard to see a Khan win.

Khan looked like shite in his last outing and I don't think the year out of the ring will do him any favours.
 

jchap

Member
I think Khan beats him. Collazo's first show of power was against a bonehead quitter in Ortiz. Khan will stay on the outside and box him not try and slug inside.
 
Nearing the halfway point of the main event, Shumenov seems perfectly fine with fighting at the slow pace Hopkins wants, and so he is losing
 
What in the flying hell was that judge watching To give the fight to Shumenov?

Hopkins is legendary. Jesus Christ, unified champ at age 49, putting on a master class to win it. All you can do is watch in awe.
 
Good night of fights. Porter looked strong, Paulie looked shot, Hopkins looked older but great still. After watching Pacquiao/Bradley 2 again, I'm even more convinced that Floyd would spank both dudes on the same night, though the fight was entertaining.
 

Leunam

Member
Cross posting this from the martial arts thread.

Thought I'd share some mitt work I did recently. This is a pretty big improvement compared to how I was a few months ago. Now at six months I feel like I have a bit more stamina and strength, but I haven't lost a whole lot of weight, which was my main goal.

Either way, I recorded this so I could get some feedback and better understand where I need to improve. I'm pivoting on my heel rather than the ball of my foot I noticed, but I'm sure there are other places I could do better.
 
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