Support NeoGAF

[Omegasquash]

Uh...the kids were warned, and the one suspended pulled an execution move on another student. I don't see a problem with it.

Kids are going to be kids, and probably pretend to shoot lasers and guns and whatnot, but this was a bit over the top. I feel like having a conference with the parents would have been a better first step, but I assume that the parents have been notified of the behavior prior to the suspension anyway.

 

[RoadDogg]

My 2 year old pretends that nearly everything is a gun and says hes shooting me all the time. The weird thing about it is that he has only ever played with a single bright green water gun once when he was 1, and we never said "shoot" when he did. We always said "squirt" or "get". And he only watches little kid stuff on TV like Mickey Mouse Club House so he didn't get it from there. I think its just a natural thing all kids (especially boys) end up doing and if his schools are as up tight pricks about it as this one, we are going to have some issues. My only concern about him and pretend guns at the moment is if he comes across a real one he is going to shoot someone with it.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

“level 2 lookalike firearm”? wtf
Wow. I'm so damn glad I'm not in school anymore.
I guess bringing in a hand grenade for show-and-tell wouldn't go over well now either?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I mean kids goof off. It's actually REALLY healthy and really required for emotional growth. Kids aren't adults and it sucks that schools want to treat them as such and reject children that are doing what children do: make mistakes. It's such a minor, petty, and arbitrary thing. Kids need to vent and running around is a way for them to do it.

I hear you, brother. Being a kid should run till your thirties and we should all live till 150. I was a whirlwind of a child myself. Again, I find it laughable. The laughable rule IS there though. One can change their child's school to a private one if they don't dig how shit is being run in the one they're in. America..the land of options.

I never understood the concept of suspension. Not having to go to school for few days seems like a reward, not punishment.

I'll take suspension for the win.

 

[Omegasquash]

“level 2 lookalike firearm”? wtf
Wow. I'm so damn glad I'm not in school anymore.
I guess bringing in a hand grenade for show-and-tell wouldn't go over well now either?

5/10. Too obvious.

My 2 year old pretends that nearly everything is a gun and says hes shooting me all the time. The weird thing about it is that he has only ever played with a single bright green water gun once when he was 1, and we never said "shoot" when he did. We always said "squirt" or "get". And he only watches little kid stuff on TV like Mickey Mouse Club House so he didn't get it from there. I think its just a natural thing all kids (especially boys) end up doing and if his schools are as up tight pricks about it as this one, we are going to have some issues. My only concern about him and pretend guns at the moment is if he comes across a real one he is going to shoot someone with it.

My son got lots of it from Transformers Prime (he's 4 and I let him see the whole bloody series, and the movie), but the teachers at his school straight up say that yeah, every boy does it, and they all feed off each other. You just have to keep reminding them that it's not OK, emphasize with a time out here and there, and they quickly learn situational appropriateness.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Because the entire post sounds like "I bend over to authority despite how silly it is" kind of sheltered living that Home schooling I feel like tends to lead to.

That's how you wanna take it, have at it. Spent most my teen years living in the streets, going to school to mainly eat breakfast lunch..but yeah..I hear ya.

 

[pants]

lmao, oh man

 

[jett]

Guns don't kill people, fingers kill people.

 

[Zeppu]

They should ban level 2 lookalike cars. Cars kill more people than guns you know.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Bullshit rule, but really depends on the escalation of the event. If the kid was a trouble student anyway this could have been a tipping point.

But, it seems it was mentioned multiple times. This would be the same as talking in class, if you aren't supposed to talk in class, don't. He's 10, they have pretty great cognitive skills by then (mines 8 and skyrocketing past what I 'think' they know).

I don't really agree with the rule of 'no play guns', but it sounds like there was a bit more to the story. I was sent home for 'playing with paperclips'. That is, bending them and shooting them at other students. Sometimes the defining offense isn't the actual straw, it's one of many.

This is a tough call. It's not the typical "zero tolerance" because there were newsletters, warnings, etc ... so depending on 'how it played out' really is the only proof and that proof was only seen by one teacher, who may or may not have a problem with the student in the first place.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

5/10. Too obvious.
.

Hey, I actually did that in 5th grade. A mortar shell also.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Hey, I actually did that in 5th grade. A mortar shell also.

Did the same in the Homestead Florida..different times indeed.

Bullshit rule, but really depends on the escalation of the event. If the kid was a trouble student anyway this could have been a tipping point.

But, it seems it was mentioned multiple times. This would be the same as talking in class, if you aren't supposed to talk in class, don't. He's 10, they have pretty great cognitive skills by then (mines 8 and skyrocketing past what I 'think' they know).

I don't really agree with the rule of 'no play guns', but it sounds like there was a bit more to the story. I was sent home for 'playing with paperclips'. That is, bending them and shooting them at other students. Sometimes the defining offense isn't the actual straw, it's one of many.

I'm in agreement with you..less homeschool sounding.....

 

[Diablos]

This is what happens in a country that has a local/state/federal Government which is either too powerless or ignorant to pass sensible gun control legislation and also ignore the implications of an ongoing mental health crisis that is spreading like a virus at this point. A lot of people, particularly educators, parents, and students are incredibly terrified (and rightfully so) yet have not seen any real course of action to respond to the epidemic of gun violence/mass shootings. You will never be able to stop it, but the lack of regard for this troubling issue is really unacceptable, especially from Washington.

Like just about everything else in this country today, when there's an urgent sense or outright need for action but still nothing ever gets done, people start to get hung up on the petty shit as means to vent their frustration because they are utterly powerless to enact real and meaningful solutions to problems. So you see people starting to beat their chests over their ideals and stupid stuff like this happens. Outside of that you'll always have people who demonstrate kneejerk reactions to harmless behavior, but I'd guarantee you this kind of hysteria would not be as profound if our society started to take care of itself again by having a Government that cares more about the safety of its citizens and not appeasing the NRA and gun loons across the nation [or insert lobby/interest here].

When I was a kid I can't even tell you how many other kids I saw running around making pretend guns, knives, etc. No one worried about anything. They probably don't have to in this case, either. But when society constantly feels less confident about the safety of their school, campus, workplace, neighborhood in an era where there's a perverse amount of violence and people are constantly losing their minds, and it appears as though no one is listening to them, it is inevitable that even goofing off will not be tolerated. People are scared. When people are scared they take drastic measures.

 

[Rushersauce]

Hey, I actually did that in 5th grade. A mortar shell also.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

By the logic that the kids where warned, so the punishment is justified, then I can justify capital punishment?

 

[Zoe]

Doing it execution style takes this from "this is kinda stupid" to "well..."

I noticed that too.

Did you guys who played cops & robbers really "shoot" at point blank like that?

 

[EdibleKnife]

"We told the kids not to goof around and look what happens. They still goof around. Why can't these ten year-olds follow every petty rule we make to the T? It's like the rules we make only cause them to do the thing we don't want them to do. Strange."

I noticed that too.

Did you guys who played cops & robbers really "shoot" at point blank like that?

Probably. If you pretended to shoot another kid and they wouldn't go down you'd probably walk up and shoot them point blank so they can see that you were already killing them.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Bullshit rule, but really depends on the escalation of the event. If the kid was a trouble student anyway this could have been a tipping point.

But, it seems it was mentioned multiple times. This would be the same as talking in class, if you aren't supposed to talk in class, don't. He's 10, they have pretty great cognitive skills by then (mines 8 and skyrocketing past what I 'think' they know).

I don't really agree with the rule of 'no play guns', but it sounds like there was a bit more to the story. I was sent home for 'playing with paperclips'. That is, bending them and shooting them at other students. Sometimes the defining offense isn't the actual straw, it's one of many.

This is a tough call. It's not the typical "zero tolerance" because there were newsletters, warnings, etc ... so depending on 'how it played out' really is the only proof and that proof was only seen by one teacher, who may or may not have a problem with the student in the first place.

I don't think 3 days of suspension is warranted. How about a letter to the parents? Detention? Miss a day of recess?

If school is important, shouldn't we withhold school only for the most serious of cases? Fighting, terroristic threats, weapons, drugs. Things that actually cause harm. Making a finger gesture doesn't measure up.

And they can't just hide behind the warnings and apply an inappropriate punishment. My experience is that some school administrators are lazy. This is a lazy punishment. Similar to banning people for a year for posting a meme. It's not warranted.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Why has our first response to just about everything in this country is to simply harshly punish? Do something wrong in school? Get suspended. Do something wrong as an adult? Get ridiculous amounts of jail time. It's like we're purposefully shooting ourselves in the feet to try to look tough.

Setting aside that the first response here was a letter to the parents, almost all adults that pick up a first offense other than something resulting in a death or is sexual o r child related are probably only going to get a day or two in jail and then get probation. Are you just trying to get worked up or something?

 

[massoluk]

Something is wrong when a kid could be punished for pointing fingers as a gun at school, but adults could throw tantrum when asked not to carry real gun into a cafe.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I hear you, brother. Being a kid should run till your thirties and we should all live till 150. I was a whirlwind of a child myself. Again, I find it laughable. The laughable rule IS there though. One can change their child's school to a private one if they don't dig how shit is being run in the one they're in. America..the land of options.

Or our educators should focus on educating and not fucking over Littly Johnny's education because he acted like the child he is for 0.29 seconds. Children aren't little adults.

Those options only apply to the affluent. The notion that those that can't afford private schools or move to another district should just sit down, shut up cause "rules are rules" is borderline insane.

 

[Ithil]

School confirmed for not being reeeeeal.

 

[GravityMan]

The punishment is justified (but too harsh IMO) in the sense that it was an established rule, students and parents have been made well aware of it, and the kid broke it. I think a lesser punishment would've been more appropriate. Like detention or something.

That said, I think the rule is stupid and unnecessary in the first place. The pussification of America continues to grow. Whatever happened to common sense? Let the teacher use his or her own discretion on how to handle it...any teacher with sense would either let it go or tell the kid to stop and pay attention in class.

 

[DedValve]

Finger weapons are a level 3 weapon not level 2. How is this kid not expelled?

 

[Surface of Me]

Man it seems like I'm gonna be so angry at the same schools if I ever have kids.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Or our educators should focus on educating and not fucking over Littly Johnny's education because he acted like the child he is for 0.29 seconds. Children aren't little adults.

Those options only apply to the affluent. The notion that those that can't afford private schools or move to another district should just sit down, shut up cause "rules are rules" is borderline insane.

Was being cheeky with that private school shit, honest. You say focus on educating..completely agree. If the kid keeps being disruptive, let it go? What if the rest of the little munchkins follow suit? It sucks, because I THINK ITS DUMB, but I ain't make them fucking rules. Some folks can homeschool because "America's going to hell." Some can afford private school.

I ain't got those options. I also give teachers plenty of lip when I feel they're off base on shit concerning my kids. But, my kid is being disruptive and told to ease up multiple times plus I get a letter? As clown shoes as it all is, he was warned. Obviously, we don't have to see eye to eye..just saying.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Man it seems like I'm gonna be so angry at the same schools if I ever have kids.

Oh, you will be. Believe me.
My boy got sent home one time for reaching down and touching snow after the first snowfall.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Oh, you will be. Believe me.
My boy got sent home one time for reaching down and touching snow after the first snowfall.

Now THAT is insanity..

 

[flyinpiranha]

I don't think 3 days of suspension is warranted. How about a letter to the parents? Detention? Miss a day of recess?

If school is important, shouldn't we withhold school only for the most serious of cases? Fighting, terroristic threats, weapons, drugs. Things that actually cause harm. Making a finger gesture doesn't measure up.

And they can't just hide behind the warnings and apply an inappropriate punishment. My experience is that some school administrators are lazy. This is a lazy punishment. Similar to banning people for a year for posting a meme. It's not warranted.

Like I said, I don't know the whole story, relationship of the kid to the other student or if the kid himself was known for causing problems. As a stand-alone incident, it's still a tough call. Yes, school is important but even more important is following rules.

I just don't know enough to make a true judgment call. I don't think they are 'hiding' behind the warnings. Warnings are exactly that, letting you know that a punishment IS coming if certain behavior continues.

I'm usually the first one to yell "zero tolerance sucks!" but this doesn't strike me as a typical case. There was way above 'zero' tolerance for the behavior and every other student seemed to comply, this one didn't.

Oh, you will be. Believe me.
My boy got sent home one time for reaching down and touching snow after the first snowfall.

Context? I mean, I can't imagine a teacher doing that unless he was told repeatedly to stop doing something. Our kid got a reprimand for "not standing in line properly". Come to find out he was moving around, moving others, and trying to stand next to his friend when there was a set order (for something, don't remember). But I could easily phrase it to "Our child was standing in line next to his friend and got a reprimand".

Also, some teachers will just not like your kid. So things they do will annoy them more. Is it right? Nope. But it will happen. Our's second grade teacher did not like him at all. Letters home all the time, we felt like we had 'that kid'. Come 3rd grade his piano teacher loves him, he does great with his teacher, and his after school care thinks highly of him ... so YMMV when it comes to teachers ... just like ANYTHING in life where it's left up to a personal judgment.

 

[ZealousD]

It doesnt sound like kids were playing cops and robbers with finger guns. The facts sound more like bullying to me. Suspending a kid for bullying seems justified to me.

 

[JustAnotherMike]

Oh, you will be. Believe me.
My boy got sent home one time for reaching down and touching snow after the first snowfall.

The teacher was obviously watching out for a "Level 3: Snorted like cocaine"

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Context? I mean, I can't imagine a teacher doing that unless he was told repeatedly to stop doing something. Our kid got a reprimand for "not standing in line properly". Come to find out he was moving around, moving others, and trying to stand next to his friend when there was a set order (for something, don't remember). But I could easily phrase it to "Our child was standing in line next to his friend and got a reprimand".

Also, some teachers will just not like your kid. So things they do will annoy them more. Is it right? Nope. But it will happen. Our's second grade teacher did not like him at all. Letters home all the time, we felt like we had 'that kid'. Come 3rd grade his piano teacher loves him, he does great with his teacher, and his after school care thinks highly of him ... so YMMV when it comes to teachers ... just like ANYTHING in life where it's left up to a personal judgment.

It was the first snowfall, so naturally kids are excited. They were told they could go outside for recess but couldn't touch the snow. I guess it was an attempt to preempt any snowball fight. The little fucker didn't listen, but I told him right there and then that there are some rules that are made to be broken and that if he wants to see an end to shit like that to always vote Republican.

The teacher was obviously watching out for a "Level 3: Snorted like cocaine"

Perfect : )

 

[Stumpokapow]

3 days off work for one of the parents, let's assume middle class jobs, is about $450-500.

What kinds of crimes would an adult have to commit to get a $500 fine?

 

[gblues]

It's a good thing them fingers ain't loaded!

 

[thelatestmodel]

I'm going to have to agree. Normally I would be all " it's just his fingers this is stupid!", but the school warned the students not to do it and they made an example. Kids need to follow rules especially in school. It's a suspension, it the kid was expelled I'd feel differently.

Sorry but this is utter, utter bollocks. The school is at fault for having such a ludicrous rule in the first place.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Was being cheeky with that private school shit, honest. You say focus on educating..completely agree. If the kid keeps being disruptive, let it go? What if the rest of the little munchkins follow suit? It sucks, because I THINK ITS DUMB, but I ain't make them fucking rules. Some folks can homeschool because "America's going to hell." Some can afford private school.

I ain't got those options. I also give teachers plenty of lip when I feel they're off base on shit concerning my kids. But, my kid is being disruptive and told to ease up multiple times plus I get a letter? As clown shoes as it all is, he was warned. Obviously, we don't have to see eye to eye..just saying.

Gun shaped finger isn't disruptive, lol. There's no epidemic of kids throwing their books at teachers and raising their gun shaped hands in the air bucking imaginary fire. C'mon son...

 

[Damaniel]

Ah, mixed messages -- we load TV shows and games with depictions of violence to such a degree that pretty much nobody over the age of 5 or so is able to go an entire day without seeing some type of fictional gun violence, and then use zero tolerance to punish students who emulate what they see, even in a purely (and obviously playful) manner.

I'm so glad I went to school back in the 80s/90s, where playing with 'fake' guns made from your finger wouldn't even get you a second glance, let alone suspension. I'm as liberal as pretty much anyone, but I'm strongly in the 'zero tolerance = zero intelligence' camp. The world is full of gray areas, and schools have much bigger fish to fry (tackling bullying, for instance) than tossing kids out of school for creating finger puppets in undesirable shapes.

 

[ZealousD]

Ah, mixed messages -- we load TV shows and games with depictions of violence to such a degree that pretty much nobody over the age of 5 or so is able to go an entire day without seeing some type of fictional gun violence, and then use zero tolerance to punish students who emulate what they see, even in a purely (and obviously playful) manner.

I'm so glad I went to school back in the 80s/90s, where playing with 'fake' guns made from your finger wouldn't even get you a second glance, let alone suspension. I'm as liberal as pretty much anyone, but I'm strongly in the 'zero tolerance = zero intelligence' camp. The world is full of gray areas, and schools have much bigger fish to fry (tackling bullying, for instance) than tossing kids out of school for creating finger puppets in undesirable shapes.

Except it wasn't zero tolerance.

And it was probably bullying.

 

[Damaniel]

Except it wasn't zero tolerance.

And it was probably bullying.

And it was a pointed finger. What was he going to do - tap the other kid's head a little?

 

[Broder Salsa]

Except it wasn't zero tolerance.

And it was probably bullying.

Bullying which the other kid that got shot with his dangerous finger gun didn't even see.

 

[flyinpiranha]

It was the first snowfall, so naturally kids are excited. They were told they could go outside for recess but couldn't touch the snow. I guess it was an attempt to preempt any snowball fight. The little fucker didn't listen, but I told him right there and then that there are some rules that are made to be broken and that if he wants to see an end to shit like that to always vote Republican.


Perfect : )

Ah, zero snow tolerance. Republicans will fix everything.

Bullying which the other kid that got shot with his dangerous finger gun didn't even see.

Who cares, he was told not to numerous times.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Gun shaped finger isn't disruptive, lol. There's no epidemic of kids throwing their books at teachers and raising their gun shaped hands in the air bucking imaginary fire. C'mon son...

Shiiiiit..we called that Tuesday! We weren't there, man. Kid could be going off the handle with it. He's 10, after all. Not sure which words to use which won't earn me the stink eye..my point remains. Silly rules, silly times, warnings sent home, shit happens. Let's just be glad he wasn't black and ZimDawg wasn't his teacher..

 

[Broder Salsa]

Who cares, he was told not to numerous times.

Eh, clearly from this thread quite a few people do? Cause I've seen the bullying thing brought up a few times now. But since you bring something else up, which I wasn't responding to : kids being told stuff numerous times and them doing it anyway happens, especially when you're trying to restrict them playing basic role playing games. It's what kids does and it's pretty central part of their development.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Like I said, I don't know the whole story, relationship of the kid to the other student or if the kid himself was known for causing problems. As a stand-alone incident, it's still a tough call. Yes, school is important but even more important is following rules.

I just don't know enough to make a true judgment call. I don't think they are 'hiding' behind the warnings. Warnings are exactly that, letting you know that a punishment IS coming if certain behavior continues.

I'm usually the first one to yell "zero tolerance sucks!" but this doesn't strike me as a typical case. There was way above 'zero' tolerance for the behavior and every other student seemed to comply, this one didn't.



Context? I mean, I can't imagine a teacher doing that unless he was told repeatedly to stop doing something. Our kid got a reprimand for "not standing in line properly". Come to find out he was moving around, moving others, and trying to stand next to his friend when there was a set order (for something, don't remember). But I could easily phrase it to "Our child was standing in line next to his friend and got a reprimand".

Also, some teachers will just not like your kid. So things they do will annoy them more. Is it right? Nope. But it will happen. Our's second grade teacher did not like him at all. Letters home all the time, we felt like we had 'that kid'. Come 3rd grade his piano teacher loves him, he does great with his teacher, and his after school care thinks highly of him ... so YMMV when it comes to teachers ... just like ANYTHING in life where it's left up to a personal judgment.

I agree. Rules are important. Say, like a rule on no talking. Would you say violating that rule would warrant a 3 day suspension?

The recent momentum in schools here in America has been zero tolerance and zero thought for discipline. Mimicking a gun with your hands by a 10 year old seems excessive and reactionary. It directly hurts his education. It may put the parents in a hurtful situation, if they have to miss work and a paycheck. And it pisses me off that these things are not considered by the administration. It's been my experience that a child would interpret more schooling as punishment.

3 days off work for one of the parents, let's assume middle class jobs, is about $450-500.

What kinds of crimes would an adult have to commit to get a $500 fine?

They want to pawn off the responsibility to the parents. If the kid mimics a bomb with his hands will he get jail? Please don't make nuke noises with his mouth and that dehumanizing stare. That's a ticket to hell.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Came for the Ocelot gifs, left satisfied.

Seriously, this is pretty absurd. I question the intelligence of the school officials.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Suspension is stupid, because the rule is fucking stupid. Therefore the rule makers are fucking stupid.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Suspension is stupid, because the rule is fucking stupid. Therefore the rule makers are fucking stupid.

Then the question is: Why would you let your kids learn from these dolts?

 

[Hari Seldon]

Then the question is: Why would you let your kids learn from these dolts?

People in the US don't pay attention to local elections and therefore don't hold the school boards accountable for the administrators they hire.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Came for the Ocelot gifs, left satisfied.

Seriously, this is pretty absurd. I question the intelligence of the school officials.

Not to insult teachers but they aren't rocket scientists

 

[flyinpiranha]

Eh, clearly from this thread quite a few people do? Cause I've seen the bullying thing brought up a few times now. But since you bring something else up, which I wasn't responding to : kids being told stuff numerous times and them doing it anyway happens, especially when you're trying to restrict them playing basic role playing games. It's what kids does and it's pretty central part of their development.

Yes, I know, I have an 8 year old. It doesn't mean that some kids aren't little fuckwads and need to be suspended for repeated behavior. As I've mentioned I don't know the whole story here, there is most likely more to it if this is the ONLY child that has had a suspension due to this rule.

I agree. Rules are important. Say, like a rule on no talking. Would you say violating that rule would warrant a 3 day suspension?

The recent momentum in schools here in America has been zero tolerance and zero thought for discipline. Mimicking a gun with your hands by a 10 year old seems excessive and reactionary. It directly hurts his education. It may put the parents in a hurtful situation, if they have to miss work and a paycheck. And it pisses me off that these things are not considered by the administration. It's been my experience that a child would interpret more schooling as punishment.

They want to pawn off the responsibility to the parents. If the kid mimics a bomb with his hands will he get jail? Please don't make nuke noises with his mouth and that dehumanizing stare. That's a ticket to hell.

Eh, same kind of response to the other quote. I totally agree that the 'zero tolerance' policy has done nothing but ruin the actual minds of students AND teachers because neither can act autonomously anymore. With that said, when I see that 'zero tolerance' isn't at play here, it leads me to believe these students (except him) and teachers actually were reasonable in their warnings and such.

I just think there is more to it. I don't think that during recess he pointed and went bang and was kicked out of school for 3 days. Same with some of the others ... every time I go pick up our kid there are kids running around with sticks, chasing, whatever ... but this is just my experience. And ours goes to a pretty 'liberal' school here. Very soft spoken teachers, a lot of nurturing and caring ... so I would expect something like this to happen but the students that get punished usually ARE causing more trouble or continuing to.

Without a suspension there isn't any consequence to the parents who may need to change their role to improve his behavior. Maybe they do miss work, maybe that should be an indicator that something else may be at play and step their game up.

Teachers are there to further encourage and promote life principles that the parents should be teaching them such as "following directions".

Again, I'm against zero tolerance, but from the VERY LITTLE info we have, it wasn't that situation and I could go either way with the punishment. Maybe he did deserve it, maybe he didn't. Too little info to really make a call outside of speculation. I'm just expressing my opinion.