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[Draugoth]

Brazil is Banning Loot Boxes in Games, if the games are not PEGI/ESRB rated for adults:

• Loot Boxes are required to have at least one item
• Pay To Win in Games like Diablo Immortal are no longer allowed if they are not rated M
• Games with Loot Boxes, P2W mechanics will now have purchase limits

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

They also introduced a bunch of new tax requirements that go into effect at the end of September I believe. I don't know how enforceable they are but I do know that some smaller developers are just pulling their support of the market directly rather than jump through the hoops and pay the additional tax costs for selling in that country.

Maybe the consensus is that if players want their game they can access the relevant store in another territory to acquire it.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[Saber]

If this includes gatcha games as well, then Genshin Impact is screwed since its pretty popular around here.
Also pretty sure this was also influenced by the sport betting sites epidemic we have here. Hopefully this will damage companies for good.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Not sure if this includes gacha games, they have a more pay to speed up the time it takes to acquire characters and level them up and shit. Everything can be done for free usually, except for cosmetic items (like outfits in GoV Nikke). But if they banning that too, then I will pray for you Brazilian gacha fans. Taking away peoples waifus just ain't right.

 

[Paulistano]

I know politics are prohibited but this law is about censorship with some things mixed in, the leftist marxist socialist Lula government wants so HARD to ban everything they don't agree on the internet but it was hard to pass this law so a clown made a video about some people who where abusing minors and where not receiving punishment (they where being protect by some powerful people probably, and these abusers are of the leftist movement btw) so they used it to make a law (this law) to ban basically everyone whose opinion they don't like, for example they want to create a regulatory agency to the internet and if they say that they need to investigate your social media account you can be suspended for at least 30 days without any reason, so this law appears good but it isn't, but as they say: think of the children!

 

[poodaddy]

Taking away peoples waifus just ain't right.

Nah, this is needed. These types of games are addictive to sad losers, it's like incel exploitation. Gacha is the lamest form of gambling imaginable.

 

[Syphon Filter]

isnt loot boxes a dead concept? i dont think ive seen it in newer games.

 

[bighugeguns]

isnt loot boxes a dead concept? i dont think ive seen it in newer games.

Electronic Arts, Wizards of the Coast (Hasbro).

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

 

[lughnasadh123]

Gacha games getcho bans.

 

[March Climber]

Nah, this is needed. These types of games are addictive to sad losers, it's like incel exploitation. Gacha is the lamest form of gambling imaginable.

The funny (and sad) thing is that this is not even gambling, because you can't cash out.

This is something worse, but it technically has no good western term for it so people just say gacha.

 

[delishcaek]

isnt loot boxes a dead concept? i dont think ive seen it in newer games.

People don't use the term anymore, but technically a gacha pull is essentially a loot box... but instead of a literal box opening, you see a nice pull animation. This is pretty much in every F2P game coming from asia.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

The law is stupid, but these games are also stupid

 

[bighugeguns]

The law is stupid, but these games are also stupid

The duality of man...

 

[Leopold]

Brazil is turning into the UK but with Sub Saharian GDP, infrastructure and quality of life.

 

[Robb]

So what's the definition of a 'Loot box'?

I remember the issue being that pull-probabilities were not disclosed, but it seems most games have adapted to that? Or is it just the fact that the contents have varying probabilities?

 

[Pimpbaa]

Nah, this is needed. These types of games are addictive to sad losers, it's like incel exploitation. Gacha is the lamest form of gambling imaginable.

I haven't spent a spent a cent on any of them yet got hours of enjoyment. No gambling. If the whales wanna blow the money on it, let them do it. Helps fund the game. This is nanny state kinda shit, telling you what you can and can't do.

 

[Ozzie666]

I wonder IF DCUO will get put on this list, pretty big userbase from Brazil and the game has very predator micro transactions.

 

[bighugeguns]

I haven't spent a spent a cent on any of them yet got hours of enjoyment. No gambling. If the whales wanna blow the money on it, let them do it. Helps fund the game. This is nanny state kinda shit, telling you what you can and can't do.

A "whale" could be a man who is destroying his life and family because of psychological addiction which these companies specifically exploit and encourage. He might turn to crime to satiate his addiction, that crime might affect you and other innocent people directly.

Didn't you watch the original Spider Man? With great power comes great responsibility. Do you really believe consequences matter to these "surprise mechanics" developers when there's lots of money to be made?

They even lobby and bribe politicians all over the world to keep the money flowing despite the social destruction caused.

I'm surprised a leftist government anywhere is taking a stance against this, they're usually incredibly corrupt. Hope to see more countries follow them and Belgium's lead.

 

[ecosse_011172]

I know politics are prohibited but this law is about censorship with some things mixed in, the leftist marxist socialist Lula government wants so HARD to ban everything they don't agree on the internet but it was hard to pass this law so a clown made a video about some people who where abusing minors and where not receiving punishment (they where being protect by some powerful people probably, and these abusers are of the leftist movement btw) so they used it to make a law (this law) to ban basically everyone whose opinion they don't like, for example they want to create a regulatory agency to the internet and if they say that they need to investigate your social media account you can be suspended for at least 30 days without any reason, so this law appears good but it isn't, but as they say: think of the children!

It's always good to get a balanced view on things.

 

[Toots]

 

[Gp1]

So what's the definition of a 'Loot box'?

I remember the issue being that pull-probabilities were not disclosed, but it seems most games have adapted to that? Or is it just the fact that the contents have varying probabilities?

I'm not going to read the entirety of the project but according to it:

""Loot box"": functionality available in certain electronic games that allows the player to acquire, upon payment, consumable virtual items or random advantages, redeemable by the player or user, without prior knowledge of their content or guarantee of their effective usefulness;"

Guess what?
As a Brazilian, that spent a good portion of my career looking for loopholes in these kinds of things.

Developers/Publishers will dance around the bold definitions, and everything will be business as usual

 

[Pimpbaa]

A "whale" could be a man who is destroying his life and family because of psychological addiction which these companies specifically exploit and encourage. He might turn to crime to satiate his addiction, that crime might affect you and other innocent people directly.

Didn't you watch the original Spider Man? With great power comes great responsibility. Do you really believe consequences matter to these "surprise mechanics" developers when there's lots of money to be made?

They even lobby and bribe politicians all over the world to keep the money flowing despite the social destruction caused.

I'm surprised a leftist government anywhere is taking a stance against this, they're usually incredibly corrupt. Hope to see more countries follow them and Belgium's lead.

One could say the same about video game addiction as a whole. Why should you or anyone else have a say in what media they want to consume? F2P games saved me money. More time playing those for free than paying $70 US dollars for a new game for a few weeks of enjoyment. Also I don't know what game exactly you are referring to, but almost every free to play game I've tried you could get everything simply by just playing the game (except for certain cosmetics). Maybe there are far more predatory games out there, but genshin impact or Nikke goddess of victory? All money does is an allow you fast track you progression or get you a naughty outfit. This isn't gambling machines in bars we are talking about here. A blanket statement that all these f2p game should be banned is again total nanny state bullshit. Do not tell me what i can and cannot consume.

Edit:don't think I've played a game where I HAD to pay for a loot box or character pull, everything i played i could get with resources i earned while playing.

 

[bighugeguns]

One could say the same about video game addiction as a whole. Why should you or anyone else have a say in what media they want to consume? F2P games saved me money. More time playing those for free than paying $70 US dollars for a new game for a few weeks of enjoyment. Also I don't know what game exactly you are referring to, but almost every free to play game I've tried you could get everything simply by just playing the game (except for certain cosmetics). Maybe there are far more predatory games out there, but genshin impact or Nikke goddess of victory? All money does is an allow you fast track you progression or get you a naughty outfit. This isn't gambling machines in bars we are talking about here. A blanket statement that all these f2p game should be banned is again total nanny state bullshit. Do not tell me what i can and cannot consume.

me me me me me me me!

 

[Brakum]

Not sure if this includes gacha games, they have a more pay to speed up the time it takes to acquire characters and level them up and shit. Everything can be done for free usually, except for cosmetic items (like outfits in GoV Nikke). But if they banning that too, then I will pray for you Brazilian gacha fans. Taking away peoples waifus just ain't right.

The it's not pay 2 win it's pay to skip narrative is the dumbest argument ever and i can't believe people say that with a straight face. By that logic almost nothing is pay 2 win. Blizzard could release a wow expansion and sell the best gear and enchantments in the game and it wouldn't be pay 2 win because you can acquire them without buying, you're just skipping.

It's not hard to grasp the concept of pay 2 win. Can you pay for an advantage? Then it's pay 2 win. It's that simple, of course there are levels to it and selling a leveling skip isnt' as bad as selling the best items in the game, but both are pay 2 win.

 

[ecosse_011172]

I do love the "gambling can't be a big problem that destroys people's lives because I manage to not become an addict, I'm alright Jack" hot take.

 

[Robb]

I'm not going to read the entirety of the project but according to it:

""Loot box"": functionality available in certain electronic games that allows the player to acquire, upon payment, consumable virtual items or random advantages, redeemable by the player or user, without prior knowledge of their content or guarantee of their effective usefulness;"

Guess what?
As a Brazilian, that spent a good portion of my career looking for loopholes in these kinds of things.

Developers/Publishers will dance around the bold definitions, and everything will be business as usual

Thanks!

Yeah, sounds companies will be fine as long as they declare the contents, their respective probability, and/or functionality.

Which I assume a lot of them already do.

 

[bighugeguns]

Thanks!

Yeah, sounds companies will be fine as long as they declare the contents, their respective probability, and/or functionality.

Which I assume a lot of them already do.

Putting odds on a slot machine in a children's casino doesn't change the fact that it's still a children's casino.

 

[Robb]

Putting odds on a slot machine in a children's casino doesn't change the fact that it's still a children's casino.

In terms of how this specific regulation defines it, it sounds like it does change that fact.

I can only assume this ban won't change much.

 

[bighugeguns]

In terms of how this specific regulation defines it, it sounds like it does change that fact.

I can only assume this won't change much.

Yeah, it really doesn't, which is why the next step is to just burn the casino down. They can go make money in games based on creative merit instead of exploiting the vulnerable and the underaged like some fucking crime syndicate.

 

[Pimpbaa]

The it's not pay 2 win it's pay to skip narrative is the dumbest argument ever and i can't believe people say that with a straight face. By that logic almost nothing is pay 2 win. Blizzard could release a wow expansion and sell the best gear and enchantments in the game and it wouldn't be pay 2 win because you can acquire them without buying, you're just skipping.

It's not hard to grasp the concept of pay 2 win. Can you pay for an advantage? Then it's pay 2 win. It's that simple, of course there are levels to it and selling a leveling skip isnt' as bad as selling the best items in the game, but both are pay 2 win.

Pay 2 win is giving paying players an advantage over those that don't IMO, I know there are some that do that(maybe more) but I don't play those. I will never consider pay to skip (a reasonable) amount of gameplay pay 2 win. Some blanket ban on all f2p games is not the answer and benefits no one (except gettting rid of some of the more notorious games), especially not the devs that made a fair and well made f2p games that doesn't try to gouge it's players or the players that enjoy those games.

me me me me me me me!

Me and everyone else who like the freedom to chose what they want to play. Gaming is pretty addictive as a whole, maybe they should ban all of gaming while they are at it? Gotta protect the people from themselves!

 

[Hudo]

Basado

 

[Robb]

Gaming is pretty addictive as a whole, maybe they should ban all of gaming while they are at it?

I personally think there's a huge difference between a game being inherently addictive and being addictive by predatory design. Companies that make these "free-to-play" loot-box-driven games hire psychologists to make sure they are designed from the bottom up to be as addictive as possible and take full advantage of human behavior for monetary gain.

 

[hemo memo]

That's a big win. I hope the rest do as well. Ban them or put lootbox games default to AO.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I personally think there's a huge difference between a game being inherently addictive and being addictive by predatory design. Companies that make these "free-to-play" loot-box-driven games hire psychologists to make sure they are designed from the bottom up to be as addictive as possible and take full advantage of human behavior for monetary gain.

That isn't every free to play game. I mean I have heard of and possibly played games like that (the first descendant seemed excessively grindy so I dropped it), and I didn't even try Diablo Immortal because that isn't that game I wanted from blizzard (or diablo 4 for that matter) But shit like Nikke, genshin impact, and zenless zone zero I felt zero need to put money to those games. I'm not arguing that there isn't games like you described, but it isn't the mindset of all of them. I mean if they were, they are doing a shit job at making you wanna spend money (the games i mentioned, except for the first descendant). They are fair in the rewards you get from simply playing plus they have a steady stream of content.

 

[Robb]

I mean if they were, they are doing a shit job at making you wanna spend money

If that was true any free-to-play game would be wiped off the map. The only reason they keep going is because people spend a, frankly, absolutely insane amount of money on them.

You might feel that way personally, but it's obviously not the case.

 

[Generic]

This new law is as shitty as that UK law. Now brazilians will have to identify themselves to acess "mature content".

The use of VPNs will rise.

 

[Generic]

I know politics are prohibited but this law is about censorship with some things mixed in, the leftist marxist socialist Lula government wants so HARD to ban everything they don't agree on the internet but it was hard to pass this law so a clown made a video about some people who where abusing minors and where not receiving punishment (they where being protect by some powerful people probably, and these abusers are of the leftist movement btw) so they used it to make a law (this law) to ban basically everyone whose opinion they don't like, for example they want to create a regulatory agency to the internet and if they say that they need to investigate your social media account you can be suspended for at least 30 days without any reason, so this law appears good but it isn't, but as they say: think of the children!

The biggest conservative party also voted "yes" because they are ultrareligious who want to protect teenagers boys from the sins of porn and violent games.

 

[Brakum]

Pay 2 win is giving paying players an advantage over those that don't IMO, I know there are some that do that(maybe more) but I don't play those. I will never consider pay to skip (a reasonable) amount of gameplay pay 2 win. Some blanket ban on all f2p games is not the answer and benefits no one (except gettting rid of some of the more notorious games), especially not the devs that made a fair and well made f2p games that doesn't try to gouge it's players or the players that enjoy those games.



Me and everyone else who like the freedom to chose what they want to play. Gaming is pretty addictive as a whole, maybe they should ban all of gaming while they are at it? Gotta protect the people from themselves!

Yes pay2win is giving players who pay an advantage over those who dont. And paying to skip is definitelly that. And im not saying that i agree with this or that gacha games are heavily pay 2 win, but it is pay 2 win and from what you said you know it. it's just not above the threshold you would consider problematic, and im in the same boat, i think the things you can pay for in most gacha games are fine, but im not delusional as to saying it's not pay 2 win. It absolutely is.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

The it's not pay 2 win it's pay to skip narrative is the dumbest argument ever and i can't believe people say that with a straight face. By that logic almost nothing is pay 2 win. Blizzard could release a wow expansion and sell the best gear and enchantments in the game and it wouldn't be pay 2 win because you can acquire them without buying, you're just skipping.

It's not hard to grasp the concept of pay 2 win. Can you pay for an advantage? Then it's pay 2 win. It's that simple, of course there are levels to it and selling a leveling skip isnt' as bad as selling the best items in the game, but both are pay 2 win.

The dumb narrative is treating SINGLE PLAYER GAMES like MP, so there is NO ADVANTAGE TO WIN ANYTHING, for fucks sake.

And no, no politician should tell ME what I can or cannot play, goddamit.

 

[Felessan]

A "whale" could be a man who is destroying his life and family because of psychological addiction which these companies specifically exploit and encourage. He might turn to crime to satiate his addiction, that crime might affect you and other innocent people directly.

Ban action games with any shred of violence as some "could be a man" suspectible to it and turn to crime.

It's not hard to grasp the concept of pay 2 win. Can you pay for an advantage? Then it's pay 2 win. It's that simple, of course there are levels to it and selling a leveling skip isnt' as bad as selling the best items in the game, but both are pay 2 win.

So getting preorder or deluxe edition bonuses those give marginal and often temporal advantages is P2W too
Although I agree on definition, it's actual usage is murky.

 

[thefool]

Batshit insane law but expected when the country is ruled by a batshit insane government.

 

[Idleyes]

I've never understood why people want the government deciding what others can or can't enjoy. Whether something is good or bad for someone else isn't my business, it's theirs. My concern is only with what's good or bad for me. I don't like gacha games, so I avoid them. But that doesn't give me the right to stop other people, even if I think they're being foolish for enjoying them. Sure, there are harms, but not on a scale that justifies outright bans or heavy-handed government intrusion. We regulate enough already.

If anything, a smarter move would be treating gacha like the tobacco industry: tax the living daylights out of it. Funnel that revenue into programs that help people struggling with gambling harm. Considering gacha games rake in billions, that might actually do more good than bans ever could, and maybe even make a dent in gambling harm more broadly.

 

[ecosse_011172]

The biggest conservative party also voted "yes" because they are ultrareligious who want to protect teenagers boys from the sins of porn and violent games.

Not that I'm convinced about the privacy laws but kids should not have easy access to porn. All these young muppets who think a girl wants her first time to be getting choked and being slapped in the face with a dick isn't a good thing.

 

[Brakum]

Ban action games with any shred of violence as some "could be a man" suspectible to it and turn to crime.


So getting preorder or deluxe edition bonuses those give marginal and often temporal advantages is P2W too
Although I agree on definition, it's actual usage is murky.

is it for multiplayer? then yes.

 

[Lokaum D+]

I know politics are prohibited but this law is about censorship with some things mixed in, the leftist marxist socialist Lula government wants so HARD to ban everything they don't agree on the internet but it was hard to pass this law so a clown made a video about some people who where abusing minors and where not receiving punishment (they where being protect by some powerful people probably, and these abusers are of the leftist movement btw) so they used it to make a law (this law) to ban basically everyone whose opinion they don't like, for example they want to create a regulatory agency to the internet and if they say that they need to investigate your social media account you can be suspended for at least 30 days without any reason, so this law appears good but it isn't, but as they say: think of the children!

so, now exposing pedophiles is bad ? some of you guys really needs to get out the internet and give a break on politics, not everything has to be polarized ffs, when we are talking about children safety everyone should come together.

lots of these retorics i see from ppl been mad about laws to protect the safety of children are a bit sus, but hey, you do you.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Don't like the Brazilian government, but prohibiting companies from exploiting the weak among us is a good thing in my book. Sure you're responsible if you get addicted and destroy your life in the process. But I don't want to pay for your medical bills, and I also don't want to NOT pay to safe your life because I'm not an antisocial asshole. If you're in a team, play like you're in one.

 

[AJUMP23]

Change the way we make games and money, or do not sell in Brazil. What choice will developers choose?

 

[Spukc]

Purchase limit is funny as fuck.
Let them fight over scraps

Love it