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[Miles Quaritch]

so laws can be struck down by our MEP's

so whats the problem? jsut that they can't create them? Then why not lobby to get that changed instead of rage quitting the EU.

We have MEP's who don't vote and then kick upna fuss about how the system is broken...

 

[ClosingADoor]

We have MEP's who don't vote and then kick upna fuss about how the system is broken...

I'd also love to see those anti-EU parties in the EP complaining about the costs donating their higher salary to charity or something. But of course, once they are in, they are happy to cash in while screaming about it.

 

[Jasup]

How the EU works: who runs the EU? - Full Fact

This is also a good read from Full Fact
EU facts behind the claims: 'Brussels bureaucrats'

 

[hodgy100]

We have MEP's who don't vote and then kick upna fuss about how the system is broken...

ha i guess when we vote UKIP in to be our MEP they are just going to do things that make it look like the EU is broken

 

[Hasney]

ha i guess when we vote UKIP in to be our MEP they are just going to do things that make it look like the EU is broken

They literally do. Take the money and never show up to vote. Then once every so often, start yelling about how broken the system is to get re-elected.

 

[anonymous_abc]

They literally do. Take the money and never show up to vote. Then once every so often, start yelling about how broken the system is to get re-elected.

The worst part is they get applauded by their base to 'suck that gravy train dry'... oh the irony...

 

[Jackpot]

They literally do. Take the money and never show up to vote. Then once every so often, start yelling about how broken the system is to get re-elected.

And occasionally get arrested for embezzlement of EU funds.

 

[Hasney]

Farage is already talking about a second referendum, but "we'll still win this one!".

Sure buddy. Sure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.
Mr Farage said he believed the Leave campaign were on course for victory.

But he said there would be resentment, particularly in the Conservative Party, if not, with claims the referendum will not have been a fair contest.

Number 10 said Mr Farage's comments showed he was losing the argument and was no longer confident of winning.

And Prime Minister David Cameron said it was a "once in a generation, once in a lifetime" decision, saying the UK had "referendums not Neverendums".

 

[ClosingADoor]

Farage is already talking about a second referendum, but "we'll still win this one!".

Sure buddy. Sure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

So if the Leave side wins by a small margin will he do a new referendum also? What a bunch of nonsense.

 

[Arksy]

so laws can be struck down by our MEP's

so whats the problem? jsut that they can't create them? Then why not lobby to get that changed instead of rage quitting the EU.

Yes, they can't create laws. Where laws are created is quite important. There's a reason why the Australian Senate, the American Senate, the Canadian HoL and the British HoL can not raise taxes, nor initiate spending bills.

As for lobbying to get it changed, Britain has lobbied many times to get many things about the EU changed and has failed in almost every single instance.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So if the Leave side wins by a small margin will he do a new referendum also? What a bunch of nonsense.

I wish someone would have asked him this. Annoys me how reporters don't ask this kind of stuff anymore unless it's in a proper interview. Put these people on the spot when they say stupid shit for goodness sake...

 

[anonymous_abc]

As for lobbying to get it changed, Britain has lobbied many times to get many things about the EU changed and has failed in almost every single instance.

Sure buddy.
And in order to insure their ever lasting influence in Europe the Conservatives left the EPP to join the likes of Law and Justice in the ECR.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Yes, they can't create laws. Where laws are created is quite important. There's a reason why the Australian Senate, the American Senate, the Canadian HoL and the British HoL can not raise taxes, nor initiate spending bills.

As for lobbying to get it changed, Britain has lobbied many times to get many things about the EU changed and has failed in almost every single instance.

I did not know I was being taxed by the EU?

And while the system is far from perfect, it is this way because otherwise countries would need to give up even more rights, which they also don't want.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

So if the Leave side wins by a small margin will he do a new referendum also? What a bunch of nonsense.

There will be another referendum if leave wins by a few percent, guaranteed.

Farage will have no say in it. In fact I think leave will need nearer 60% of the vote before its put to bed.

 

[Jasup]

Yes, they can't create laws. Where laws are created is quite important. There's a reason why the Australian Senate, the American Senate, the Canadian HoL and the British HoL can not raise taxes, nor initiate spending bills.

As for lobbying to get it changed, Britain has lobbied many times to get many things about the EU changed and has failed in almost every single instance.

Yes, European Parliament can't create laws, that's true. But they have a power to initiate laws. I know there is a small difference there, the law initiative goes to the Commission where it enters the standard decision making procedure. And even if the Parliament's initiative hasn't changed at all in the Commission, it'd still be labeled as commission's proposal.

 

[Nicktendo86]

New IPSOS-MORI phone poll out today, 55% remain - 37% leave.

It's not going to be anywhere near close, at least a double digit win for remain. Project fear but, mainly, the absolute shocking campaign from leave will be the deciding factors. I mean, they look like a ragtag bunch of loonies for fuck's sake, I wish someone would get them all together and sort them out. Crosby is right, they need to find simple, easy messages to bang on and stop distracting over process stories like the ITV debate thing.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

New IPSOS-MORI phone poll out today, 55% remain - 37% leave.

It's not going to be anywhere near close, at least a double digit win for remain. Project fear but, mainly, the absolute shocking campaign from leave will be the deciding factors. I mean, they look like a ragtag bunch of loonies for fuck's sake, I wish someone would get them all together and sort them out. Crosby is right, they need to find simple, easy messages to bang on and stop distracting over process stories like the ITV debate thing.

Hey.

Nigel Farage who the leave campaign don't want anything to do with despite being responsible for popularising the mpvement.

Boris Johnson, who is Boris Johnson.

And whoever was the UKIP candidate for London mayor who literally couldn't answer any question without "controlling our borders" being the final answer...,.

How could you ask for a better team of representatives?

 

[Dougald]

If we're going by amount of Brexit junk mail I've been getting through my door, Stay are outspending Leave at least 3 to 1

 

[Hasney]

Hey.

Nigel Farage who the leave campaign don't want anything to do with despite being responsible for popularising the mpvement.

Boris Johnson, who is Boris Johnson.

And whoever was the UKIP candidate for London mayor who literally couldn't answer any question without "controlling our borders" being the final answer...,.

How could you ask for a better team of representatives?

Even without those, uh, handicaps, it would have been a tough sell anyway with almost every study saying it's better for the economy if we stay. Even if they are biased, that's the message. It leaves you with only a few options.

1. Refute the studies offering no counterpoints, just call it fearmongering
2. Talk about independence for Britain, which is probably the best thing they've got
3. Talking about closing the borders without sounding racist or xenophobic as that would put off a lot of people
4. Talk about loony EU laws, but try to make them ones that actually exist and not ones people seem to have made up, ones that have not been passed or ones the UK ourselves brought to the table
5. Shout about Switzerland doing so well, ignoring that they have to follow a lot of the EU rules anyway
6. Talk about the cost of the EU without the benefit of being able to promise tax cuts or that that money would go to better public services (they won't)

I personally believe it's such a hard sell because it's the wrong move to leave, but for those who do want to leave, I'm sure it would be an uphill struggle to try and get a talking point out there.

 

[DrFurbs]

They literally do. Take the money and never show up to vote. Then once every so often, start yelling about how broken the system is to get re-elected.

I've watched Nigel Ferage loads on YouTube recently in EU parliamentary debates. Honestly he really gives those EU MPs a kicking. Calls them manics etc to their faces lol.

 

[Hasney]

I've watched Nigel Ferage loads on YouTube recently in EU parliamentary debates. Honestly he really gives those EU MPs a kicking. Calls them manics etc to their faces lol.

Yeah, he's got to make a show as he's the public face. I get the feeling he enjoys going there and just kicking off too.

Our sole UKIP representitive in my area is one of the ones to never show up.

 

[Phantast2k]

Juncker says on Brexit: British 'deserters' to get no EU favor | Reuters

Britain can expect no favors from its neighbors if it votes to "desert" and leave the European Union next month, the EU's chief executive Jean-Claude Juncker said on Friday.

"I'm sure the deserters will not be welcomed with open arms," the European Commission president told French newspaper Le Monde in an interview after being asked about the day after a vote for Brexit in the June 23 EU membership referendum.

"If the British should say No - which I hope they don't - then life in the EU will not go on as before," Juncker added.

"The United Kingdom will have to accept being regarded as a third country, which won't be handled with kid gloves.

"If the British leave Europe, people will have to face the consequences -- we will have to, just as they will. It's not a threat but our relations will no longer be what they are today."

Juncker was underlining a view widely held by EU officials that if Prime Minister David Cameron loses his referendum campaign and comes to a June 28 summit to tell other leaders Britain is leaving, then they and EU institutions may quickly close ranks and make little effort to smoothe its departure.

The EU treaty sets a two-year limit for negotiating terms on which a member state leaves. Without unanimous agreement, or all 28 states agreeing to extend talks, the departing state is then excluded from the bloc.

Many Brexit campaigners say they want to negotiate a free trade deal and other terms to continue links to the EU but many diplomats doubt that can be achieved in two years.

Senior EU officials say they see no appetite among member states for lengthy and distracting negotiations with London or for helping Britain avoid disruption after severing its EU ties -- not least to discourage Eurosceptics elsewhere.

(...)

As expected.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Britain can expect no favors from its neighbors if it votes to "desert" and leave the European Union next month, the EU's chief executive Jean-Claude Juncker said on Friday.

Or to put it another way according to the British Press :-

British 'deserters' will face the consequences, warns EU's Juncker

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...will-face-the-consequences-warns-eus-juncker/

Yeah that is gonna play well in the sticks, rofl. I mean I get what he is saying but seriously he needs to be a bit more "diplomatic" in his tone. I am actually surprised the British Press didn't use the word "threat" instead of "warns".

He also moaned about the fact none of us are talking about that wonderful deal that Brussels spents months negotiating to help Cammy boy save face. Yeah Juncker the reason why no one is talking about it, is because it was an embarrassing waste of space and it isn't worth discussing.

On another note a bunch of tax dodging actors that don't even live in the UK have signed a letter going "pretty please vote to stay in"

Britain is not just stronger in Europe, it is more imaginative and more creative, and our global creative success would be severely weakened by walking away.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...backing-eu-benedict-cumberbatch-paloma-faith-

 

[KingSnake]

Why should he be more diplomatic?

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Why should he be more diplomatic?

Well I was under the impression that the head of the EU would perhaps WANT to keep the UK in the EU. Releasing a statement that borders on a threat like Juncker has done is perhaps not the best way to facilitate us voting to stay in.

The statement he made can so easily be twisted into a win for Brexit especially when you consider how "creative" the UK press can be with stuff from Europe. I get what he is trying to say but there are better ways he could've said it and ultimately I believe it will be a damaging statement for the remain side.

 

[KingSnake]

Well I was under the impression that the head of the EU would perhaps WANT to keep the UK in the EU. Releasing a statement that borders on a threat like Juncker has done is perhaps not the best way to facilitate us voting to stay in.

The statement he made can so easily be twisted into a win for Brexit especially when you consider how "creative" the UK press can be with stuff from Europe. I get what he is trying to say but there are better ways he could've said it and ultimately I believe it will be a damaging statement for the remain side.

Any "soft" statement would be even more damaging as it would be interpreted as "look, they are willing to negotiate". Like this the position is very clear. You might not like it, but at least you know where you stand when you vote. Reality, not fantasy.

 

[Uzzy]

Nice to hear Juncker, the man who created the magical fairyland known as the Luxembourg Tax Haven, speak up. Makes me want to ram a leave vote down his toxic throat.

 

[pigeon]

Well I was under the impression that the head of the EU would perhaps WANT to keep the UK in the EU. Releasing a statement that borders on a threat like Juncker has done is perhaps not the best way to facilitate us voting to stay in.

Juncker also has to send a clear message to all the other countries in the EU. Kind of the point of all the Brexit discussion is that the United Kingdom is just one country and in today's globalized world it's hard to justify special relationships.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Juncker says on Brexit: British 'deserters' to get no EU favor | Reuters



As expected.

"But guys, remember if we vote leave they will give us a second referendum and finally the proper deal we deserve" says no one who can be taken seriously...

 

[Mr. Sam]

Osborne's back on the "Brexit would lower house prices" bit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36344425

"People other than foreign billionaires would be able to afford the deposit on a one bedroom flat in Lewisham," sobbed the chancellor. "It might take a couple with a well paying job each and parents willing to gift them a sizeable amount of money only a decade to save up for somewhere to live. Such a calamity cannot come to pass."

But he's right that mortgage rates would go up because the market dictates that under no circumstances must ordinary people be able to buy a house.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

"The truth is that the greatest threat to the economy is the perilous state of the euro; staying in the EU means locking ourselves to a currency zone - which Mervyn King, ex-governor of the Bank of England, has rightly warned 'could explode'.

Huh?

...Huh?

And Osborne really needs to shut the hell up about the lowering house prices thing. I know of two people who are now voting to leave purely because they want to see houses become affordable again and finally get on the property ladder.

 

[Mr. Sam]

And Osborne really needs to shut the hell up about the lowering house prices thing. I know of two people who are now voting to leave purely because they want to see houses become affordable again and finally get on the property ladder.

"You know that thing that's totally fucked? Well, that'll all be over if we leave the EU!"

 

[Maledict]

Huh?

...Huh?

And Osborne really needs to shut the hell up about the lowering house prices thing. I know of two people who are now voting to leave purely because they want to see houses become affordable again and finally get on the property ladder.

The people who want their house price to go up vote.

The people stressing about getting onto the property ladder don't.

Sad but true unfortunately... :-(

 

[Mr. Sam]

The people who want their house price to go up vote.

The people stressing about getting onto the property ladder don't.

Sad but true unfortunately... :-(

Which is really to say old people vote in greater numbers than younger people.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Huh?

...Huh?

And Osborne really needs to shut the hell up about the lowering house prices thing. I know of two people who are now voting to leave purely because they want to see houses become affordable again and finally get on the property ladder.

Yeah, it's peculiar. I mean, I know that the Tories are very used to catering to their base for the elections but this is so wide that you need to think of the ramifications of this on the broader body politic.

Lead for bremain (had someone use that over the weekend, thought it was funny) is good though. My father has been spouting some stuff about 'well, students and hippies and young people want to stay and they wont vote on the day!' and further saying students 'wouldn't be awake to vote' then rambled something about Muslims and Christians being 50/50 now in terms of population. I did try to point out that most Muslims aren't EU migrants but he just sort of looked rattled. It's weird, he's usually quite strongly Conservative/UKIP but he's always had his head screwed on straight but everything he has said in the lead-up to this referendum is just weird. He flat-out denied that Muslims were around 5% and non-religious people were 25% and kept insisting things about our 'Christian country'.

I wouldn't like the paint the Leave campaign with this brush but seeing my Father get so peculiar in his views to the point of not even really knowing what he was voting for or against just knowing that, for some not given reason, he doesn't like immigration and will vote to stay out of the EU despite him quite liking Polish immigrants but not liking Muslims. Oh, to be fair actually he did talk about Turkey joining the EU and how he somehow thinks this would be apocalyptic (I assume because of Muslims) and how there'll be a flood of Albanians because 'they'll get in too'.

It actually worried me quite a lot, it's as though he's losing his mind and I know that people often say it happens when you get older. I do hope whatever is the zeitgeist at the time doesn't incense me with fear quite as much as it has done my aging father. Sorry if this has seemed like an ill-defined rant but it's really made me think and it helps to write it all down. I used to argue with them a lot when I was younger but I really can't be bothered these days.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

lol at the ivory tower crowd suddenly shitting on Paxman.

What a fucking boondoggle.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Yeah, it's peculiar. I mean, I know that the Tories are very used to catering to their base for the elections but this is so wide that you need to think of the ramifications of this on the broader body politic.

Lead for bremain (had someone use that over the weekend, thought it was funny) is good though. My father has been spouting some stuff about 'well, students and hippies and young people want to stay and they wont vote on the day!' and further saying students 'wouldn't be awake to vote' then rambled something about Muslims and Christians being 50/50 now in terms of population. I did try to point out that most Muslims aren't EU migrants but he just sort of looked rattled. It's weird, he's usually quite strongly Conservative/UKIP but he's always had his head screwed on straight but everything he has said in the lead-up to this referendum is just weird. He flat-out denied that Muslims were around 5% and non-religious people were 25% and kept insisting things about our 'Christian country'.

I wouldn't like the paint the Leave campaign with this brush but seeing my Father get so peculiar in his views to the point of not even really knowing what he was voting for or against just knowing that, for some not given reason, he doesn't like immigration and will vote to stay out of the EU despite him quite liking Polish immigrants but not liking Muslims. Oh, to be fair actually he did talk about Turkey joining the EU and how he somehow thinks this would be apocalyptic (I assume because of Muslims) and how there'll be a flood of Albanians because 'they'll get in too'.

It actually worried me quite a lot, it's as though he's losing his mind and I know that people often say it happens when you get older. I do hope whatever is the zeitgeist at the time doesn't incense me with fear quite as much as it has done my aging father. Sorry if this has seemed like an ill-defined rant but it's really made me think and it helps to write it all down. I used to argue with them a lot when I was younger but I really can't be bothered these days.

Muslim hate is pretty strong in a lot of quarters right now and it has only increased because of the rhetoric used by the Leave campaign as well the as the problems with migration in the EU.

Saying that, what were the specific reasons your dad gave for hating hating Muslims? Or maybe hate isn't the right word. Living in fear of Muslims maybe?

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Muslim hate is pretty strong in a lot of quarters right now and it has only increased because of the rhetoric used by the Leave campaign as well the as the problems with migration in the EU.

Saying that, what were the specific reasons your dad gave for hating hating Muslims? Or maybe hate isn't the right word. Living in fear of Muslims maybe?

Terrorism, really. He's bought into being petrified of the issue and he blames Muslims, I guess. I wouldn't use 'hate' though but there's the same cognitive dissonance that a lot of people have where he knows and likes a lot of immigrants but still believes the lies and defamation of certain papers. Almost like a 'yeah, but they're the good ones' mentality. It's just like in any incident where a plane goes missing or a bomb is found he'll just go 'bet it was Muslims'. Was vehement about that at Old Trafford last week.

 

[Phantast2k]

Fear intensifies.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7166325/EU-is-terrorist-magnet.html

@LeaveEUOfficial

The controversial Vote Leave campaign poster. Photograph: Vote Leave

Vote Leave embroiled in race row over Turkey security threat claims | Politics | The Guardian

On Johnson's Turkey rhetoric:
Boris Johnson Used To Campaign For Turkey To Join The European Union - BuzzFeed News (video)

“I believe our generation has a historic chance … to build a bridge between the Islamic and the Christian worlds,” the politician said when he called for EU expansion in 2006. He’s now campaigning for Britain to leave the EU.

On his Hitler comparisons:
Who do you think you are kidding, Mr Johnson? | Reuters

...

As the author of a biography of Churchill, as well as a book on the Roman Empire, Johnson must know that his favorite statesman passionately advocated a united Europe after World War Two to prevent any return to nationalism and warmongering.

In his celebrated 1946 Zurich speech, Churchill said the remedy was "to re-create the European family, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe."

...

Even more striking is the contrast between Johnson's view of the lessons of European history and Thatcher's.

In a speech launching the Conservative "Yes" campaign in Britain's 1975 referendum on whether to stay in the European Economic Community - the forerunner of the EU - she drew a direct link between European integration and peace.

Thatcher expressed gratitude that her children had not been embroiled in a European conflict as were the children of the previous two generations. "The Community gives us peace and security in a free society, a peace and security denied to the past two generations," she said.

 

[Lucreto]

Lol at the fear mongering in those articles. They have been saying the same thing for years and it's all nonsense.

That leave campaign pamphlet saying Turkey is joining the EU is rubbish, they only agreed to recommence talks and that hasn't even started yet.

 

[Mr. Sam]

I think any chance of me voting leave has just been smashed now that the xenophobic right is in the driving seat.

 

[Hasney]

So World War 3 vs. The horrors of Turkish students coming here.

I want a 3rd option that says "I no longer give a fuck due to the ridiculous statements made by both sides and vote for the people behind them to leave the UK".

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Lol at the fear mongering in those articles. They have been saying the same thing for years and it's all nonsense.

That leave campaign pamphlet saying Turkey is joining the EU is rubbish, they only agreed to recommence talks and that hasn't even started yet.

They'll never join, but it's a convenient way to scare people about those Muslim hordes.

That's the only reason Turkey is getting such a prominent place in this campaign, it's the same tactics from the London Mayoral election but at a national level and I fear it might just work. The fear of Muslims is crazy high right now...

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Terrorism, really. He's bought into being petrified of the issue and he blames Muslims, I guess. I wouldn't use 'hate' though but there's the same cognitive dissonance that a lot of people have where he knows and likes a lot of immigrants but still believes the lies and defamation of certain papers. Almost like a 'yeah, but they're the good ones' mentality. It's just like in any incident where a plane goes missing or a bomb is found he'll just go 'bet it was Muslims'. Was vehement about that at Old Trafford last week.

Yeah, hate probably isn't the right word here but it's definitely one that could be applied.

Still, it must be sad to see this playing out in real time. To see a once rational person becoming this fear driven shell of a person who parrots right wing propaganda and isn't willing to listen to reason because they 'know better' and the media is biased anyway.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Not really defending anyone here, but the Turkey of 2006 was pretty different from the Turkey of 2016. It's not unreasonable to support their entry then and be worried about such a thing now.

 

[Hasney]

Not really defending anyone here, but the Turkey of 2006 was pretty different from the Turkey of 2016. It's not unreasonable to support their entry then and be worried about such a thing now.

From a political standpoint of what Turkey will bring to the EU, sure. For the "12 MILLION TURKS COMING TO THE UK OMFG SOME OF THEM ARE STUDENTS", then no, noone should be worried about that.

 

[Yen]

A new poll suggests 55% of people in Northern Ireland who intend to vote in the EU referendum will chose to stay.

The survey, carried out by market research agency, Millward Brown, showed 23% of those who intend to vote want to leave the EU, while 22% are still undecided.

NB: NI is left out of most UK polling on the EU vote.

DUP are the only NI party for Brexit, but I remember the two main tenets of their 2014 Euro Parliament campaign was 'the EU is bad and wasteful' and 'we'll milk the EU for all we can get in farming subsidies'.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Not really defending anyone here, but the Turkey of 2006 was pretty different from the Turkey of 2016. It's not unreasonable to support their entry then and be worried about such a thing now.

I think there are too many hurdles (political and otherwise) for them to ever join the EU. It's literally BS to stir up fear of the invading hordes of Muslims.

If they couldn't do it when they were trending much more liberally in 2006, it's going to a fart in the wind now...

 

[Roberto Larcos]

So World War 3 vs. The horrors of Turkish students coming here.

I want a 3rd option that says "I no longer give a fuck due to the ridiculous statements made by both sides and vote for the people behind them to leave the UK".

Option 3: Emigrate?

It's the option I'm planning on, and I know many others that have too.

 

[Chittagong]

Trying to sell our flat, market is totally fucking dead until Brexit. And after, if UK leaves.