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[Dead Man]

But in a civilised way without hypocrisy, salty biter tears or blatant trolling I would say.

All things far above Koreys peasant mind.

Which is true, but no reason not to take the serious discussion in the thread seriously.

Well, actually, even then a spokesman for the IOC disagrees.

I think there is something of a distinction to be drawn between what happened with the badminton and what happened in the cycling. The badminton players were chided because there is an (implicit) assumption that every athlete, whether playing individually or as part of a team, will work their sincere hardest to defeat the opposition, within the rules of the game. By losing on purpose, the badminton players worked against that ethos.

However, what the cyclist did was part of that spirit. He worked within the rules of the game to ensure that he could play at his very best.

Yeah, in that light cheating is always okay then. And the badminton players were (in a way) trying to do just that.

If breaking the spirit of the rules is grounds for disqualification (a silly precedent I don't agree with) then this is also a very unsportsmanlike situation.

 

[Kafel]

Britain doesn't seem to know what's fair-play.

They did the same in rawing.

 

[Oxirane]

You can have a restart for any mechanical issue within the first half lap, or for a false start. They asked for a restart within 8 seconds of the race starting.

How do they differentiate mechanical issues from rider caused problems or slow starts?
I don't follow the sport at all but it just looked like he was super eager to go and caused him self to start slower than the second rider(I'm not sure about this bit my memory may be faulty), then he wobbled and fell.

 

[travisbickle]

It's not even un-sportsman like!!

He had an issue with the bike, you can ask for one restart when you have an issue with your bike.

Did anyone even watch the race! or at least seen close-up footage of the start, the guy was fighting with his bike till he went down, the team is perfectly within their rights to ask for a restart.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

If people have taken an issue with the badminton drama then take it up with the appropriate officials. They are two different sports with two different sets of rules. The new setup of the matches likely forced the Chinese/Korean/Indonesian hands into match fixing which is a shared issue between them and the players.

The thread title is inaccurate because Hindes didn't crash to win a Gold medal. If he did it on purpose then all it achieved was a restart and not a guarantee that they would win the heat. After they won that race both of the teams went on to the final so there was no advantage gained.

 

[gerg]

Yeah, in that light cheating is always okay then.

Don't put the cart before the horse. We're trying to work out whether the actions of the cyclist are, in fact, cheating.

And the badminton players were (in a way) trying to do just that.

Perhaps overall, but not within the games in which they lost on purpose.

Personally I wouldn't consider what the badminton players did as cheating anyway. After all, they didn't break any of the rules of the game, but simply that implicit assumption that, well, you should want to win.

If breaking the spirit of the rules is grounds for disqualification (a silly precedent I don't agree with) then this is also a very unsportsmanlike situation.

Well, that would be a point to discuss: what are the spirit of these rules, and does this action break them?

That's not explaining "why it's different" that one case of unsportsmanlike conduct is punishable but not another, that's just stating one arbitrary point and using that as an excuse to sweep this under the rug.

Well, their argument would probably be that the one case is unsportsmanlike, whereas the other case isn't.

"Depriving paying fans of a competition" is the basis for which all sportsmanship cases will be handled now? So, as long as fans aren't "deprived" of money and "best efforts" to win are made, all unsportmanlike behavior is ok?

I do think that the metric of fans being deprived of competition is a bit much, but, yes, I'd say that in regards to the badminton and the cycling the deciding factor is pretty much whether the "best efforts" were made.

Also, I'm not sure how he can "clearly say" that best efforts were made by the British team when the actual team admitted they crashed on purpose.

The best efforts were made by the British team when they restarted the race and then went on to win it.

 

[Derrick01]

As much as I hate cheating or doing something dishonorable to win in sports, it was allowed.

Ask the guy who got 2nd place about how important honor is.

 

[Delusibeta]

ITT: NBC watching Americans completely unaware that the UK cycling team did lose a gold medal through disqualification.

 

[Korey]

It's not even un-sportsman like!!

He had an issue with the bike, you can ask for one restart when you have an issue with your bike.

Did anyone even watch the race! or at least seen close-up footage of the start, the guy was fighting with his bike till he went down, the team is perfectly within their rights to ask for a restart.

He didn't have an issue with the bike. They messed up their start, so he crashed it asap. He said this in his first interview. They planned this all in advance.

As much as I hate cheating or doing something dishonorable to win in sports, it was allowed.

Ask the guy who got 2nd place about how important honor is.

Or ask all the badminton teams that didn't get disqualified for throwing a match how important honor is? Pretty important I'm guessing. Well, important for some and less important for others, I guess is more accurate.

ITT: NBC watching Americans completely unaware that the UK cycling team did lose a gold medal through disqualification.

That seems like they just broke a basic rule of the sport and were DQ'd. This is a sportsmanship issue, not a rules one.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

nm

 

[Veezy]

It's called playing to win. The teams that played badminton wrong on purpose shouldn't have been disqualified and neither should this guy. The "spirit of the game" crap is just a catch all for bad rule writing.

You better bet that in an international tournament if there's a hole in the rules to exploit I'd exploit it.

 

[gerg]

Actually, re-reading what Hindes said, the situation does sound more dodgy than I'd first thought, and quite unsportsmanlike.

Edit: Hmmm... it really depends on how you read his comments.

 

[Korey]

It's called playing to win. The teams that played badminton wrong on purpose shouldn't have been disqualified and neither should this guy. The "spirit of the game" crap is just a catch all for bad rule writing.

You better bet that in an international tournament if there's a hole in the rules to exploit I'd exploit it.

Kind of.

The point people are missing here is that this isn't about the GB team, or the technicalities of bike crashing, or the badminton match fixing, or whatever.

It's about double standards.

When boiled down to the basics, there isn't a big difference between what went down in the bike and badminton events, and they chose to rule one way in one event and the other way in the other.

BUT WHY?

I've read theories that they did it because Jaques Rogue or whatever the commissioner guy was in attendance at the Badminton match and they didn't want to make him look bad. Another theory is of course that they don't want to embarrass the host nation.

And why are the reactions to it different? Why are the Chinese, South Korean and Indonesian players completely denounced (even by their own country in China's case), while people are vigilantly defending the British team?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

what a sad way to win a Gold, to forever be known as the guy who took a dive

 

[SteveWD40]

I've read theories that they did it because Jaques Rogue or whatever the commissioner guy was in attendance at the Badminton match and they didn't want to make him look bad. Another theory is of course that they don't want to embarrass the host nation.

Would bear some weight if they hadn't already DQ'd several members of the GB squad for other offences.

 

[travisbickle]

How do they differentiate mechanical issues from rider caused problems or slow starts?
I don't follow the sport at all but it just looked like he was super eager to go and caused him self to start slower than the second rider(I'm not sure about this bit my memory may be faulty), then he wobbled and fell.

It was a team pursuit so his position was at the back of the 3, it wasn't a slow start out of the block, if you watch the close-up footage he looks like he's never riden a bike before and he's all over the place, then within 8 seconds he goes down... but what's the difference? does the rider have to assess himself? if the bike wobbles and jerks does the rider have to think is that me? am I nervous? or is it my bike?

Every team has two tries to get a good start, and the British team used up one of them on a bad start.

 

[planar1280]

Cyclist fell on purpose to win gold
Badminton players tried to lose on purpose to win gold

One was called cheating, one was not

 

[D4Danger]

Would bear some weight if they hadn't already DQ'd several members of the GB squad for other offences.

but he read some theories... on the internet

don't tell me people who weren't there and don't know the rules and probably didn't watch the event are wrong.

 

[Korey]

It was a team pursuit so his position was at the back of the 3, it wasn't a slow start out of the block, if you watch the close-up footage he looks like he's never riden a bike before and he's all over the place, then within 8 seconds he goes down... but what's the difference? does the rider have to assess himself? if the bike wobbles and jerks does the rider have to think is that me? am I nervous? or is it my bike?

Every team has two tries to get a good start, and the British team used up one of them on a bad start.

It's obviously not that common, simple, or accepted, as everyone involved immediately jumped in to backtrack on his original comment that he crashed on purpose.

If it were normal to get a restart on demand, the British team wouldn't be jumping all over themselves to be blaming his original interview on poor English skills, and he wouldn't be retracting his original comment.

It's a completely shady move, and everyone knows it.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

In one of those events I saw a female rider wobbling as she left the starting block and then afterwards she asked for a restart. Was she nervous, have a bad start or was there a genuine mechanical problem? No one has any idea because she was allowed a restart as is typical in cycling and she took it.

Cyclist fell on purpose to win gold
Badminton players tried to lose on purpose to win gold

One was called cheating, one was not

Again, he didn't fall to win a gold. This happened during the heats and there is no guarantee that being awarded a restart would even guarantee winning the heats let alone a medal. The team they went up against in that exact race (France) is the same team they went up against in the final.

However, purposefully losing a badminton match would guarantee an easier match later on and a better route to a medal. That is likely the fault of badminton officials for messing up the setup of the matches so better teams eliminate each other first, so take up their decision to disqualify multiple teams with them.

 

[SteveWD40]

Cyclist fell on purpose to win gold
Badminton players tried to lose on purpose to win gold

One was called cheating, one was not

The Brits then went on to race their arses off, the volunteers were not crying and the crowed were not baying for their money back.

The badminton players were not cheating however, just trying to game the system but in a far more blatant way.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Badminton was far worse. In cycling he still had to start over AND win. Both situations are pretty low-class though.

It's the same thing, they faked a crash in order to get a do-over. In my opinion its very unsportsmanlike and they should be stripped of their medal, if it was the Chinese London and indeed the whole of Britain will be in an uproar.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

It's the same thing, they faked a crash in order to get a do-over. In my opinion its very unsportsmanlike and they should be stripped of their medal, if it was the Chinese London and indeed the whole of Britain will be in an uproar.

What about the Cycling officials stripping China of the gold medal? Are you outraged about that?

 

[travisbickle]

It's the same thing, they faked a crash in order to get a do-over. In my opinion its very unsportsmanlike and they should be stripped of their medal, if it was the Chinese London and indeed the whole of Britain will be in an uproar.

You do realise he doesn't need to "fake a crash" to get a restart?

That's the whole point of the 'lost in translation' comments.

 

[planar1280]

The Brits then went on to race their arses off, the volunteers were not crying and the crowed were not baying for their money back.

The badminton players were not cheating however, just trying to game the system but in a far more blatant way.

Bdminton players would have played their ass off in the next round

 

[Conciliator]

Why would you admit that? You got yr gold, take it and shut up.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Picture it like this: if both the biking and badminton teams had a do-over, would the outcomes be different or at least with more effort? In the cycling event, yes. In the badminton event, no.

 

[SteveWD40]

Bdminton players would have played their ass off in the next round

Irrelevant, also he didn't fall to win gold as you wrongly said, he could have just stopped and asked for a re-start and it wasn't "for the gold"

But please, continue:

 

[planar1280]

Picture it like this: if both the biking and badminton teams had a do-over, would the outcomes be different or at least with more effort? In the cycling event, yes. In the badminton event, no.

Thats not the point

 

[kylej]

He should be stripped of his medal.

 

[BigDug13]

I think only one team was chinese, there were two teams from S. Korea and the other from Indonesia.

The chinese team was the #1/World Champs though.

If they were truly the world champs then it was completely unnecessary for them to throw matches for specific matchups.

 

[Dead Man]

Seems Korey has had his slapping. I don't think either the badminton or the cyclists should be disqualified. What they did was withing the rules of the sport. If the IOC doesn't like it, they should change the rules to prevent it being a viable strategy. But there is no doubt in my mind that if the badminton players were disqualified for spirit of the game mmickey mouse shit, so should the cyclists.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

He should be stripped of his medal.

Fortunately no one who has any say on the matter including other cycling teams and coaches agrees with you.

Where are your tears for them stripping China of it's gold medal and the complete lack of an appeal process? I guess you only have a hard-on for GB.

 

[entremet]

Seems Korey has had his slapping. I don't think either the badminton or the cyclists should be disqualified. What they did was withing the rules of the sport. If the IOC doesn't like it, they should change the rules to prevent it being a viable strategy. But there is no doubt in my mind that if the badminton players were disqualified for spirit of the game mmickey mouse shit, so should the cyclists.

How did he get his slapping? I still agree with his point.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Both the cyclers and the badminton players played in an unsportsmanlike way but only because the rules encouraged those styles of play. But it does seem hypocritical that one got the chance to keep playing and the other did not.

 

[Dead Man]

How did he get his slapping? I still agree with his point.

Banned. Along with SteveWD40. I assume for this thread.

Both the cyclers and the badminton players played in an unsportsmanlike way but only because the rules encouraged those styles of play. But it does seem hypocritical that one got the chance to keep playing and the other did not.

Exactly.

 

[Salvadora]

Wonder how long Korey is out for

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Are the Olympics always filled with this many dumb asses or is this a special year with all the cheating and dumb twitter posts?

 

[Oxirane]

It was a team pursuit so his position was at the back of the 3, it wasn't a slow start out of the block, if you watch the close-up footage he looks like he's never riden a bike before and he's all over the place, then within 8 seconds he goes down... but what's the difference? does the rider have to assess himself? if the bike wobbles and jerks does the rider have to think is that me? am I nervous? or is it my bike?

Every team has two tries to get a good start, and the British team used up one of them on a bad start.

If every team gets two restarts they can use for any reason at all, then I think it's OK.
I assume using them tactically is a common thing, like false starts used to be in swimming and sprinting to make those who normally start really well a bit more conservative.

Also, my memory must be really off, I thought he was the lead out man in a really short race.

Edit - Just checked, he was the lead out man for the team sprint, a 50 second event.

 

[Wendel Clark]

Embarrassing, but what I want to know is how the women lost to Canada in soccer. Isn't soccer the top sport over there?

edit- the men don't do well in the World Cup either... I can't imagine Canada not doing well in international hockey tournaments.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

What about the Cycling officials stripping China of the gold medal? Are you outraged about that?

What kind of question is that, i have limited knowledge on what their infraction was but from what i know they broke the rules.

You do realise he doesn't need to "fake a crash" to get a restart?

That's the whole point of the 'lost in translation' comments.

Of course, but the point is that he did.

 

[Venfayth]

Wow, for the French coach to basically say:

"Yeah, they cheated, but they were still better than us."

What a fucking stand-up guy. That's the true spirit of competition right there.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

How did he get his slapping? I still agree with his point.

So what is your problem here, Hindes doing what he did which has been claimed over and over again as being within the rules (and something that occurred with at least one other team during that day - I guess you chose to ignore that, or... you didn't watch any of the races) or the badminton teams for being disqualified for vague notions of "unsportsmanlike behaviour"?

GB had already been disqualified that day so there was no favouritism.

Wow, for the French coach to basically say:

"Yeah, they cheated, but they were still better than us."

What a fucking stand-up guy. That's the true spirit of competition right there.

How does "There was no cheating. The British team was much stronger than the French team and I congratulate them on their success." then translate to "Yeah, they cheated"?

He then went on to say it doesn't look good for Cycling and called for a rule change, as in... the current rules allow for it but should be changed.

Let me spell that out for you again: The current rules allow for it and Hindes operated within them. Another non-British female team also used that rule to ask for a restart but no one questions that one.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Thats not the point

I suppose the committee sees it differently, like that an early fall in cycling would be so detrimental. I'm not sure what other sports have a restart period in the beginning which is part of the problem.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Are the Olympics always filled with this many dumb asses or is this a special year with all the cheating and dumb twitter posts?

08 had some but it was mainly about China faking the opening show or something and the girls on their gymnastics team.

 

[Gregorn]

Yeah, the rules should probably be changed but blaming the guy doesn't seem fair. It's not like he put rockets on his bike.

 

[Venfayth]

How does "There was no cheating. The British team was much stronger than the French team and I congratulate them on their success." then translate to "Yeah, they cheated"?

He then went on to say it doesn't look good for Cycling and called for a rule change, as in... the current rules allow for it but should be changed.

Let me spell that out for you again: The current rules allow for it and Hindes operated within them. Another non-British female team also used that rule to ask for a restart but no one questions that one.

Eh, I suppose you're right.

I guess I interpreted the
"There was no cheating."
More as a dismissive way of saying that he didn't really care because they outperformed them.

But now reading what you have to say, I think that makes more sense.

 

[SpaceBridge]

Ot: but wtf at that Badminton game.

 

[Oxirane]

08 had some but it was mainly about China faking the opening show or something and the girls on their gymnastics team.

On the gymnastics age subject. If there is a minimum age requirement, does that make the junior Olympics a better quality gymnastics tournament than the normal one?

 

[Wildesy]

This guy;

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40547659&postcount=7118

It was all Brits in the thread at the time though so the incident got brushed over.