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Bush as seen by his Professor

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capslock

Is jealous of Matlock's emoticon
From Salon.com

The dunce
His former Harvard Business School professor recalls George W. Bush not just as a terrible student but as spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Mary Jacoby

printe-mail

Sept. 16, 2004 | For 25 years, Yoshi Tsurumi, one of George W. Bush's professors at Harvard Business School, was content with his green-card status as a permanent legal resident of the United States. But Bush's ascension to the presidency in 2001 prompted the Japanese native to secure his American citizenship. The reason: to be able to speak out with the full authority of citizenship about why he believes Bush lacks the character and intellect to lead the world's oldest and most powerful democracy.

"I don't remember all the students in detail unless I'm prompted by something," Tsurumi said in a telephone interview Wednesday. "But I always remember two types of students. One is the very excellent student, the type as a professor you feel honored to be working with. Someone with strong social values, compassion and intellect -- the very rare person you never forget. And then you remember students like George Bush, those who are totally the opposite."

The future president was one of 85 first-year MBA students in Tsurumi's macroeconomic policies and international business class in the fall of 1973 and spring of 1974. Tsurumi was a visiting associate professor at Harvard Business School from January 1972 to August 1976; today, he is a professor of international business at Baruch College in New York.

Trading as usual on his father's connections, Bush entered Harvard in 1973 for a two-year program. He'd just come off what George H.W. Bush had once called his eldest son's "nomadic years" -- partying, drifting from job to job, working on political campaigns in Florida and Alabama and, most famously, apparently not showing up for duty in the Alabama National Guard.

Harvard Business School's rigorous teaching methods, in which the professor interacts aggressively with students, and students are encouraged to challenge each other sharply, offered important insights into Bush, Tsurumi said. In observing students' in-class performances, "you develop pretty good ideas about what are their weaknesses and strengths in terms of thinking, analysis, their prejudices, their backgrounds and other things that students reveal," he said.

One of Tsurumi's standout students was Rep. Chris Cox, R-Calif., now the seventh-ranking member of the House Republican leadership. "I typed him as a conservative Republican with a conscience," Tsurumi said. "He never confused his own ideology with economics, and he didn't try to hide his ignorance of a subject in mumbo jumbo. He was what I call a principled conservative." (Though clearly a partisan one. On Wednesday, Cox called for a congressional investigation of the validity of documents that CBS News obtained for a story questioning Bush's attendance at Guard duty in Alabama.)

Bush, by contrast, "was totally the opposite of Chris Cox," Tsurumi said. "He showed pathological lying habits and was in denial when challenged on his prejudices and biases. He would even deny saying something he just said 30 seconds ago. He was famous for that. Students jumped on him; I challenged him." When asked to explain a particular comment, said Tsurumi, Bush would respond, "Oh, I never said that." A White House spokeswoman did not return a phone call seeking comment.

In 1973, as the oil and energy crisis raged, Tsurumi led a discussion on whether government should assist retirees and other people on fixed incomes with heating costs. Bush, he recalled, "made this ridiculous statement and when I asked him to explain, he said, 'The government doesn't have to help poor people -- because they are lazy.' I said, 'Well, could you explain that assumption?' Not only could he not explain it, he started backtracking on it, saying, 'No, I didn't say that.'"

If Cox had been in the same class, Tsurumi said, "I could have asked him to challenge that and he would have demolished it. Not personally or emotionally, but intellectually."

Bush once sneered at Tsurumi for showing the film "The Grapes of Wrath," based on John Steinbeck's novel of the Depression. "We were in a discussion of the New Deal, and he called Franklin Roosevelt's policies 'socialism.' He denounced labor unions, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Medicare, Social Security, you name it. He denounced the civil rights movement as socialism. To him, socialism and communism were the same thing. And when challenged to explain his prejudice, he could not defend his argument, either ideologically, polemically or academically."

Students who challenged and embarrassed Bush in class would then become the subject of a whispering campaign by him, Tsurumi said. "In class, he couldn't challenge them. But after class, he sometimes came up to me in the hallway and started bad-mouthing those students who had challenged him. He would complain that someone was drinking too much. It was innuendo and lies. So that's how I knew, behind his smile and his smirk, that he was a very insecure, cunning and vengeful guy."

Many of Tsurumi's students came from well-connected or wealthy families, but good manners prevented them from boasting about it, the professor said. But Bush seemed unabashed about the connections that had brought him to Harvard. "The other children of the rich and famous were at least well bred to the point of realizing universal values and standards of behavior," Tsurumi said. But Bush sometimes came late to class and often sat in the back row of the theater-like classroom, wearing a bomber jacket from the Texas Air National Guard and spitting chewing tobacco into a cup.

"At first, I wondered, 'Who is this George Bush?' It's a very common name and I didn't know his background. And he was such a bad student that I asked him once how he got in. He said, 'My dad has good friends.'" Bush scored in the lowest 10 percent of the class.

The Vietnam War was still roiling campuses and Harvard was no exception. Bush expressed strong support for the war but admitted to Tsurumi that he'd gotten a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard through his father's connections.

"I used to chat up a number of students when we were walking back to class," Tsurumi said. "Here was Bush, wearing a Texas Guard bomber jacket, and the draft was the No. 1 topic in those days. And I said, 'George, what did you do with the draft?' He said, 'Well, I got into the Texas Air National Guard.' And I said, 'Lucky you. I understand there is a long waiting list for it. How'd you get in?' When he told me, he didn't seem ashamed or embarrassed. He thought he was entitled to all kinds of privileges and special deals. He was not the only one trying to twist all their connections to avoid Vietnam. But then, he was fanatically for the war."

Tsurumi told Bush that someone who avoided a draft while supporting a war in which others were dying was a hypocrite. "He realized he was caught, showed his famous smirk and huffed off."

Tsurumi's conclusion: Bush is not as dumb as his detractors allege. "He was just badly brought up, with no discipline, and no compassion," he said.

In recent days, Tsurumi has told his story to various print and television outlets and appears in Kitty Kelley's exposé "The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty." He said other professors and students at the business school from that time share his recollections but are afraid to come forward, fearing ostracism or retribution. And why is Tsurumi speaking up now? Because with the ongoing bloodshed in Iraq and Osama bin Laden still on the loose -- not to mention a federal deficit ballooning out of control -- the stakes are too high to remain silent. "Obviously, I don't think he is the best person" to be running the country, he said. "I wanted to explain why."
 

ourumov

Member
In 1973, as the oil and energy crisis raged, Tsurumi led a discussion on whether government should assist retirees and other people on fixed incomes with heating costs. Bush, he recalled, "made this ridiculous statement and when I asked him to explain, he said, 'The government doesn't have to help poor people -- because they are lazy.' I said, 'Well, could you explain that assumption?' Not only could he not explain it, he started backtracking on it, saying, 'No, I didn't say that.'"

Wow...
 

Zaptruder

Banned
I'm sure the republicans will come in and find someway to spin this.

Chief among the tactics will be to say that this occured nearly over 30 years ago.

I'm of the opinion that if you can still vote for Bush after all that's happened now (i.e. you're totally brainwashed, or have some kinda deeprooted desire to see America push its 'military dominance'), then stuff like this just will *not* affect your vote.

If stuff like this had come out 4 years earlier... in say... florida... and had been some kinda focus... then it would've made a difference.
 

pestul

Member
Yeah, this kind of stuff is pretty useless now... there are much better angles of approach for attacking.

Four years as president has already been added to his resume, no point attacking his past now. Attack him for what he has done as president.
 

Deg

Banned
pestul said:
Yeah, this kind of stuff is pretty useless now... there are much better angles of approach for attacking.

Four years as president has already been added to his resume, no point attacking his past now. Attack him for what he has done as president.


Then later on dont mention his stuff in presidency... :rolleyes
 
But Bush sometimes came late to class and often sat in the back row of the theater-like classroom, wearing a bomber jacket from the Texas Air National Guard and spitting chewing tobacco into a cup.

Ha. and somebody said that John Edwards was a hick.
 
Bush, by contrast, "was totally the opposite of Chris Cox," Tsurumi said. "He showed pathological lying habits and was in denial when challenged on his prejudices and biases. He would even deny saying something he just said 30 seconds ago. He was famous for that. Students jumped on him; I challenged him." When asked to explain a particular comment, said Tsurumi, Bush would respond, "Oh, I never said that." A White House spokeswoman did not return a phone call seeking comment.

Osama who?
 

pestul

Member
Deg said:
Then later on dont mention his stuff in presidency... :rolleyes
I think it hurts the Democrats actually. He's been president for the past 4yrs. Why didn't this teacher speak up in 2000? If you're going to claim that a man is unfit to lead, there are more than enough examples from the past 4yrs when he was in the most important position in the world.. that's all I'm trying to say. There are much better things to harp on...
 
pestul said:
He's been president for the past 4yrs. Why didn't this teacher speak up in 2000?

Your question is answered in the first paragraph:

For 25 years, Yoshi Tsurumi, one of George W. Bush's professors at Harvard Business School, was content with his green-card status as a permanent legal resident of the United States. But Bush's ascension to the presidency in 2001 prompted the Japanese native to secure his American citizenship. The reason: to be able to speak out with the full authority of citizenship about why he believes Bush lacks the character and intellect to lead the world's oldest and most powerful democracy.
 
Why am I the only one who doesn't give a shit what someone did 20 or 30 years ago. That being said I wouldn't base my vote for him based on what he did then. I would base my vote for him for what he's doing now and where I think he would lead the country in the future. Isn't that what is most important?
 

Minotauro

Finds Purchase on Dog Nutz
Ya know, I'm far from a Bush supporter but this guy could be embellishing facts or telling outright lies. It just seems dangerous to take one, random person's word for something without any other support.
 
My favorite passage from the Kelly book was his lexical error in an essay about the death of his sister (borrowed liberally from slate)

Page 253: At Andover, George W. Bush writes a morose essay about his sister's death. Searching for a synonym for "tears," he consults a thesaurus and writes, "And the lacerates ran down my cheeks." A teacher labels the paper "disgraceful."
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Minotauro said:
Ya know, I'm far from a Bush supporter but this guy could be embellishing facts or telling outright lies. It just seems dangerous to take one, random person's word for something without any other support.
A Harvard Business professor is a "random guy"? No. Some swiftboat idiot whom no one has ever heard of is a "random guy". A professor from one of the most prestigious schools in the world who taught Bush has a bit more credibility.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
mrkapawutzis said:
My favorite passage from the Kelly book was his lexical error in an essay about the death of his sister (borrowed liberally from slate)

Page 253: At Andover, George W. Bush writes a morose essay about his sister's death. Searching for a synonym for "tears," he consults a thesaurus and writes, "And the lacerates ran down my cheeks." A teacher labels the paper "disgraceful."
Sweet Christ on a stick........ :lol :lol :lol
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
demon said:
A Harvard Business professor is a "random guy"? No. Some swiftboat idiot whom no one has ever heard of is a "random guy". A professor from one of the most prestigious schools in the world who taught Bush has a bit more credibility.

I like how Veterans of an obviously horrible war and have opinions of their own are now 'idiots'. I don't doubt that the professor is in a good position to speak on Bush's character (or lack thereof), but I fail to see how his attachment to a learning institution instantly makes his opinion more valid.
 

3phemeral

Member
This:
Page 253: At Andover, George W. Bush writes a morose essay about his sister's death. Searching for a synonym for "tears," he consults a thesaurus and writes, "And the lacerates ran down my cheeks." A teacher labels the paper "disgraceful."
should automatically negate this:
Tsurumi's conclusion: Bush is not as dumb as his detractors allege. "He was just badly brought up, with no discipline, and no compassion," he said.

:lol

But ah well :p
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
tedtropy said:
I like how Veterans of an obviously horrible war and have opinions of their own are now 'idiots'. I don't doubt that the professor is in a good position to speak on Bush's character (or lack thereof), but I fail to see how his attachment to a learning institution instantly makes his opinion more valid.
Oh, so their involvement in a war that was horrible makes their "account" of Kerry more valid? They're veterans, many of whom never even knew Kerry. Yes, they are "random". A professor from Harvard who taught Bush does indeed have a lot more credibility in his opinion of Bush than some random Nam veteran does of Kerry who never even fought beside him.
 
mrkapawutzis said:
My favorite passage from the Kelly book was his lexical error in an essay about the death of his sister (borrowed liberally from slate)

Page 253: At Andover, George W. Bush writes a morose essay about his sister's death. Searching for a synonym for "tears," he consults a thesaurus and writes, "And the lacerates ran down my cheeks." A teacher labels the paper "disgraceful."


:lol :lol :lol
 

Loki

Count of Concision
mrkapawutzis said:
My favorite passage from the Kelly book was his lexical error in an essay about the death of his sister (borrowed liberally from slate)

Page 253: At Andover, George W. Bush writes a morose essay about his sister's death. Searching for a synonym for "tears," he consults a thesaurus and writes, "And the lacerates ran down my cheeks." A teacher labels the paper "disgraceful."

LOL :lol
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
demon said:
Oh, so their involvement in a war that was horrible makes their "account" of Kerry more valid? They're veterans, many of whom never even knew Kerry. Yes, they are "random". A professor from Harvard who taught Bush does indeed have a lot more credibility in his opinion of Bush than some random Nam veteran does of Kerry who never even fought beside him.

I'm not denying the credibility of this professor. That said, nobody has a clear understanding of what happened with Kerry in Vietnam or what any of his opposing swiftboat peers did or did not see. There's so much spin on both sides, they'll never be a clear story. Not knowing the true story, I'm not prone to label people 'idiots'.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Bah I breezed through Junior High, High School and College and didn't study much, because I knew I'd be able to get passing grades without it... to me getting that A, A+ or whatever is the highest grade in your school had no appeal to me. As long as I was able to pass with B's without studying I was cool with that.

Many of my teachers back then did not appreciate that and more than a few told me I'd never amount to anything.

To all those teachers I say.... HOW YA LIKE ME KNOW BITCHES... I MAKE AT LEAST TWICE AS MUCH MONEY AS MOST OF J00!

All I'm saying is this proves squat IMO and I don't even like Bush.
 
Zaptruder said:
I'm sure the republicans will come in and find someway to spin this.

Chief among the tactics will be to say that this occured nearly over 30 years ago.
Actually, I'd guess it would be "Prove this is the truth."

tedtropy said:
I like how Veterans of an obviously horrible war and have opinions of their own are now 'idiots'.
Not so much idiots, as a group of people who can't even agree among themselves which events Kerry acted incorrectly on, led by people who've had it out for the man for 30 years.
 

Minotauro

Finds Purchase on Dog Nutz
demon said:
A Harvard Business professor is a "random guy"? A professor from one of the most prestigious schools in the world who taught Bush has a bit more credibility.

Yes, but, Bush went to Harvard so they're basically on equal footing as far as credibility goes. I mean, if Harvard's administration isn't thorough enough to deny admission to him, what's to say their hiring practices are any more stringent? I'm sure you're going to respond to this with something about how Bush only got into Harvard through his daddy's connections but that's really beside the point.

Regardless, his claims are still largely unsubstantiated by anyone else. It just seems odd to me that, of all the professors Bush must have had while in college, only one will come forward...four years after the fact no less. Like I said, it seems foolish to take the word of one man without knowledge of his motives or biases.

Ugh, I hate when I put myself in a position where I'm in any way defending Bush.
 
C'mon though DarienA, not studying/passing with B's is a long way from spitting in a cup like a tv cowboy during college courses at Harvard.
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
Minotauro said:
Yes, but, Bush went to Harvard so they're basically on equal footing as far as credibility goes. I mean, if Harvard's administration isn't thorough enough to deny admission to him, what's to say their hiring practices are any more stringent? I'm sure you're going to respond to this with something about how Bush only got into Harvard through his daddy's connections but that's really beside the point.

Regardless, his claims are still largely unsubstantiated by anyone else. It just seems odd to me that, of all the professors Bush must have had while in college, only one will come forward...four years after the fact no less. Like I said, it seems foolish to take the word of one man without knowledge of his motives or biases.

Ugh, I hate when I put myself in a position where I'm in any way defending Bush.

I don't know that you're defending him so much as just saying things as they are. Common sense transcends party alliance. Too many people seem to forget this and that's why I have such a beef with this very much split "us or them" two-party mentality.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Mermandala said:
C'mon though DarienA, not studying/passing with B's is a long way from spitting in a cup like a tv cowboy during college courses at Harvard.

Sorry I'm not the type to kiss and tell about my college years. ;) He chewed tobacco during class... OH MY GOD THAT MAKES HIM A BAD PERSON!

If he spit the tobacco on the floor I could see the problem...
 
This is just more anti-Bush nonsense.

The point that should be made is: GWB has gotten us into an unjustified war, with no clear plan for getting out, while proping up economic interests of associates (some conservative he is!), and driving up the national debt. As a bonus, is working on eroding our civil liberites (some conservative he is!). As more bonuses, working against Gay Rights (why should a true conservative care?), gutting the EPA (which is a conservative move-- just one I disagree with), and generally ignoring the state of the economy and its effects.

That's anti-Bush *sense*.
 

Meier

Member
I love how liberals will take this stuff all at face value. As if this one professor (who is assuredly a liberal himself) could remember all of these quotes 30 years down the line.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
"I love how liberals will take this stuff all at face value. As if this one professor (who is assuredly a liberal himself) could remember all of these quotes 30 years down the line."

Agreed. This isn't any different than that veterans against Kerry thing.
 
It would be god to not generalize. One could make the same statement the "conservatives" take all the anti-Kerry talk at face value.

It's not useful to generalize along political lines.
 

Drensch

Member
This stuff said by the professor already fits into an already existing picture that has bush as a liar and idiot-quite plausible. The swiftbaot stuff was contradictoray to the record, self contradictory, and full of holes that didn't fit into the John Kerry Story. For that reason alone, the Bush stuff is far more plausible.
 
Drensch said:
This stuff said by the professor already fits into an already existing picture that has bush as a liar and idiot-quite plausible. The swiftbaot stuff was contradictoray to the record, self contradictory, and full of holes that didn't fit into the John Kerry Story. For that reason alone, the Bush stuff is far more plausible.
To quote the Howler:
Did Bush make these statements? Maybe he did. But have you ever read an account of Young Bush in which he goes around making such “outrageous statements?” We’ve read a lot of bios of Bush, and frankly, we don’t recall such a pattern. Wasn’t the problem supposed to be that Bush didn’t give a goldang?
 
Like none of you have ever made enemies with a teacher/professor. Maybe the teacher was a jerk. Darien is right.

I don't care much for Bush, but this proves little.
 
mrkapawutzis said:
My favorite passage from the Kelly book was his lexical error in an essay about the death of his sister (borrowed liberally from slate)

Page 253: At Andover, George W. Bush writes a morose essay about his sister's death. Searching for a synonym for "tears," he consults a thesaurus and writes, "And the lacerates ran down my cheeks." A teacher labels the paper "disgraceful."

hilllllllarriouuusss.

:lol :lol :lol
 

Willco

Hollywood Square
I'm sure a lot of my teachers hated me, but - hey! - you guys know me. And if I was President, I think you'd all agree that my qualities of honesty, compassion and patience would surely shine through.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Ignatz Mouse said:
It would be god to not generalize. One could make the same statement the "conservatives" take all the anti-Kerry talk at face value.

It's not useful to generalize along political lines.
Both are rather true. The general masses are idiots that take everything they hear at face value. That's not rude or inaccurate, it's the politically incorrect truth. Sad, but true.
 
Minotauro said:
Ya know, I'm far from a Bush supporter but this guy could be embellishing facts or telling outright lies. It just seems dangerous to take one, random person's word for something without any other support.

You said in one of the threads where people declare who they are voting for that you are going to vote for Bush. I have no problems with your comments, but stop saying you are not a Bush supporter . By declaring that you will vote for him you are a Bush supporter .
 

Azih

Member
That said, nobody has a clear understanding of what happened with Kerry in Vietnam or what any of his opposing swiftboat peers did or did not see. There's so much spin on both sides, they'll never be a clear story. Not knowing the true story, I'm not prone to label people 'idiots'.
Dude, the people who WERE ON HIS BOAT like Kerry. And the people who are bashing him weren't. In fact very few of them were even on the damn river.
 

Alcibiades

Member
Sirpopopop said:
You said in one of the threads where people declare who they are voting for that you are going to vote for Bush. I have no problems with your comments, but stop saying you are not a Bush supporter . By declaring that you will vote for him you are a Bush supporter .
many Kerry voters don't support him, they just don't like Bush.

The situation can be reversed I'm sure, someone hates Kerry so they'll vote for Bush (Pat Buchannan comes to mind, who is constantly criticizing Bush, but is going to vote for his "lesser of two evils"
 
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