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[dcmk7]

The guy said “same experience at lower resolution” in the hype video and you tried to interpret it differently

Exactly this.

We are seeing more and more games released with missing modes and next gen features and that trend looks set to continue.

Not sure why stating that the marketing for the console doesn't match up with reality should be so contentious. Certainly shouldn't mean that should be dogpiled.

Seems a mistake for Jason Ronald to make such a claim.

 

[Schmick]

The desperation in these words is incredible. That article proves it. Yet, you’re still typing things you don’t understand or can’t comprehend.
The guy said “same experience at lower resolution” in the hype video and you tried to interpret it differently. Now you’re shown this article that literally interprets and goes into great detail that 120 FPS and Ray tracing are FEATURES and quotes Ronald saying it. He was interviewed for this. Do you think it goes to print without Microsoft PR team approving it? If a mistake was made it would have been amended by now.
Now these features are being omitted despite the lowered resolutions. Time is being wasted on a system when the lead consoles could be further optimized. There’s no scaling or flip switching. It’s hard to develop for. Period. Otherwise, developers would not need to REMOVE features the lead consoles have on the same games. Including halo which received an extra YEAR and a ton of extra funding.

This sounds to me like a good thing.

More time a developer spends on optimisation the less likely we will receive broken and badly optimised games.

So as they are optimising for the XSS they are doing so for the XSX too.

 

[adamsapple]

This sounds to me like a good thing.

More time a developer spends on optimisation the less likely we will receive broken and badly optimised games.

So as they are optimising for the XSS they are doing so for the XSX too.

Honestly, look at it this way.

If the Series S is the base line of the current gen console games, PS5 and Series X are almost always guaranteed to have a better version.

Keep in mind a lot of games on PC still ship with 970 or 1050~1060 as the minimum requirements, so if anything, that's where the development-level compromises actually are, to target all the millions of PC's that are still running 10 series cards.

 

[twilo99]

Isn't it funny how there's tons of Playstation gamers complaining about XSS holding the gen back but at the same time mutligeneration games like Horizon, God of War and Gran turismo look like the best ever, according to them.

Applying logic here is strictly prohibited.

 

[dcmk7]

This sounds to me like a good thing.

More time a developer spends on optimisation the less likely we will receive broken and badly optimised games.

So as they are optimising for the XSS they are doing so for the XSX too.

Just have to read the 4A Games experience with the Series S to realise that this sadly isn't true.

And they also have concerns about the GPU performance for future titles.

 

[Riky]

Honestly, look at it this way.

If the Series S is the base line of the current gen console games, PS5 and Series X are almost always guaranteed to have a better version.

Keep in mind a lot of games on PC still ship with 970 or 1050~1060 as the minimum requirements, so if anything, that's where the development-level compromises actually are, to target all the millions of PC's that are still running 10 series cards.

It also seems Microsoft are the ones raising the bar, I don't know of any first party games for next year that are still coming to last gen consoles, unless they haven't announced it.
Maybe because of their investment in Cloud Gaming for last gen and Gamepass they feel they can go forward without leaving last gen owners with nothing.
Seems like they have timed and planned it all quite well.

 

[mckmas8808]

Honestly, look at it this way.

If the Series S is the base line of the current gen console games, PS5 and Series X are almost always guaranteed to have a better version.

Keep in mind a lot of games on PC still ship with 970 or 1050~1060 as the minimum requirements, so if anything, that's where the development-level compromises actually are, to target all the millions of PC's that are still running 10 series cards.

 

[Schmick]

Just have to read the 4A Games experience with the Series S to realise that this sadly isn't true.

And they also have concerns about the GPU performance for future titles.

That's fine. Let's be more concerned when we hear 5 or more developers voicing the same concerns.

Not to mention that we are still in cross gen territory and we seem to forget that the are plenty of the new features that have not been utilised either by the PS5 or XSeries consoles that will improve performance.

 

[tommib]

Sony fans complaining about Series S are embarrassing. Just stop guys. And this is coming from someone who does prefer to play on my PS5 above other systems. The S is not holding anything back. Last year Cyberpunk RTX was considered by many to be the peak of graphics for the year. It wasn’t compromised by Xbox One or PS4. It’s illogical thinking.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Sony fans complaining about Series S are embarrassing. Just stop guys. And this is coming from someone who does prefer to play on my PS5 above other systems. The S is not holding anything back. Last year Cyberpunk RTX was considered by many to be the peak of graphics for the year. It wasn’t compromised by Xbox One or PS4. It’s illogical thinking.

I have said it before maybe even in this thread but prior to launch I was dead against the idea of the Series S but have since seen it running even on a 4k TV and honestly I was quite impressed by the machine

Besides with how Forza Horizon looks especially the jungle areas if the Series S is holding that back on the XSX I am okay with that

 

[Schmick]

I have said it before maybe even in this thread but prior to launch I was dead against the idea of the Series S but have since seen it running even on a 4k TV and honestly I was quite impressed by the machine

Besides with how Forza Horizon looks especially the jungle areas if the Series S is holding that back on the XSX I am okay with that

Would any gamer actually know if the XSX was held back if it were actually... held back?

 

[adamsapple]

It also seems Microsoft are the ones raising the bar, I don't know of any first party games for next year that are still coming to last gen consoles, unless they haven't announced it.
Maybe because of their investment in Cloud Gaming for last gen and Gamepass they feel they can go forward without leaving last gen owners with nothing.
Seems like they have timed and planned it all quite well.

No, to my recollection none of the first party games are coming to base XBO.

Starfield, Redfall, Hellblade 2 and even the next Forza Motorsport are supposed to be Series exclusives only.

Other third party (timed) exclusives like STALKER 2, Scorn, Warhammer 40K Darktide are also dropping last-gen support. So that's a positive sign.

 

[tommib]

I have said it before maybe even in this thread but prior to launch I was dead against the idea of the Series S but have since seen it running even on a 4k TV and honestly I was quite impressed by the machine

Besides with how Forza Horizon looks especially the jungle areas if the Series S is holding that back on the XSX I am okay with that

It does! The S on a 4K TV looks tremendous. Play Gears 5 on that boy or Horizon and everything looks great and crisp. People are talking about it like it’s like a Switch or something.

 

[Mobilemofo]

No issues finding a series X in recent days. My grandson wanted one two days ago, and after 2 minutes, found a few options. Curry's being one of em.

 

[THEAP99]

Last night I scrolled through both systems trying to find something compelling to play that I haven't already.. and went to netflix.

The only losers this holiday are the gamers.

 

[FrankWza]

Just have to read the 4A Games experience with the Series S to realise that this sadly isn't true.

And they also have concerns about the GPU performance for future titles.

Incredible how the shift happens isn’t it? Right before our eyes. Good lord these comments….

 

[Schmick]

Incredible how the shift happens isn’t it? Right before our eyes. Good lord these comments….

I guess you are disgruntled XSS owner then.

 

[FrankWza]

Would any gamer actually know if the XSX was held back if it were actually... held back?

Do you think that giant arms come out of the series s or that it turns into molasses and encompasses the other systems?
When a system promised something, and FIRST party has to remove that feature you know there’s work being put into it that wouldn’t be necessary once cross gen ends.
When coalition call the effort to get the s version running “gargantuan” you know there’s a lot of work that needs done.
That’s how the other systems are held back. The PS5 has 2 identical skus besides the disc drive. The series doesn’t. It was supposed to just scale. Already that is not the case. Going forward, with UE5, it will take a lot of effort. See?

I guess you are disgruntled XSS owner then.

I own a PS5 and I buy 3rd party games. If that’s what you are relegated to using as an excuse…..

 

[Warnen]

I own a PS5 and I buy 3rd party games. If that’s what you are relegated to using as an excuse…..

might want to get a series x if u want to make the most of them 3rd party games

 

[Schmick]

Do you think that giant arms come out of the series s or that it turns into molasses and encompasses the other systems?
When a system promised something, and FIRST party has to remove that feature you know there’s work being put into it that wouldn’t be necessary once cross gen ends.
When coalition call the effort to get the s version running “gargantuan” you know there’s a lot of work that needs done.
That’s how the other systems are held back. The PS5 has 2 identical skus besides the disc drive. The series doesn’t. It was supposed to just scale. Already that is not the case. Going forward, with UE5, it will take a lot of effort. See?

I own a PS5 and I buy 3rd party games. If that’s what you are relegated to using as an excuse…..

Your arguments are getting tiresome. I don't think anyone has any interest in hearing them.

And as per adamsapple post above the 'gargantuan effort' you are describing isn't purely talking about the XSS. You are twisting the words.

 

[adamsapple]

No issues finding a series X in recent days. My grandson wanted one two days ago, and after 2 minutes, found a few options. Curry's being one of em.

mmmm curry flavored Xbox.

 

[SportsFan581]

No, to my recollection none of the first party games are coming to base XBO.

Starfield, Redfall, Hellblade 2 and even the next Forza Motorsport are supposed to be Series exclusives only.

Other third party (timed) exclusives like STALKER 2, Scorn, Warhammer 40K Darktide are also dropping last-gen support. So that's a positive sign.

Good to see the progression towards current-gen only. Exciting times ahead.

It does! The S on a 4K TV looks tremendous. Play Gears 5 on that boy or Horizon and everything looks great and crisp. People are talking about it like it’s like a Switch or something.

Just started GoTG on XSS and it's a stunner, as long as I'm seeing results like this, I'm a happy customer.

 

[NickFire]

After having spent time in a couple gamestops post X-Mas, my anecdotal experience is that PS5 is in much greater demand than any other console. I saw many people go to the registers asking for PS5, and literally walk away when told no but that they could buy Series X as one store had at least 1. Another store was telling people they has Series S without anyone taking the bait, though in fairness one guy did pick up a Series S that the store had set aside from him.

 

[FrankWza]

might want to get a series x if u want to make the most of them 3rd party games

I guess you haven’t been paying attention.
I could always just get an s and get the same experience at 1080p? Oh wait…

Your arguments are getting tiresome. I don't think anyone has any interest in hearing them.

Of course not. That’s why they call it the hard truth.

And as per @adamsapple post above the 'gargantuan effort' you are describing isn't purely talking about the XSS. You are twisting the words.

I was? Hmmm. How’s this one?

So what exactly did the team at The Coalition do? A primary focus for them was on memory and performance optimizations to fully take advantage of both Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Because the experience features an incredibly large and dense world with a staggering amount of content, the first step was working on memory optimization. In that area, they worked with Epic to ensure the assets in the demo were set up to fully leverage virtual texture streaming and nanite wherever possible and tuned internal memory systems, ESPECIALLY on Xbox Series S, to ensure it all fit in the memory.

With this FOCUS, the Xbox Series S version shipped with all the same UE5 features enabled as Xbox Series X (albeit with different quality) including but not limited to raytraced reflections and raytraced shadows. Regardless of which platform you experience it on, you’re in for a visual treat.

How The Coalition Worked with Epic to Bring The Matrix Awakens to Life on Xbox Series X|S - Xbox Wire

Yesterday, in a surprise announcement at The Game Awards, Epic Games revealed that The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience, a new playable Unreal Engine 5 technical demo, was available for everyone on Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Created by members of the original “The Matrix”movie...

news.xbox.com

 

[Riky]

I guess you haven’t been paying attention.
I could always just get an s and get the same experience at 1080p? Oh wait…

Of course not. That’s why they call it the hard truth.

I was? Hmmm. How’s this one?

So what exactly did the team at The Coalition do? A primary focus for them was on memory and performance optimizations to fully take advantage of both Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Because the experience features an incredibly large and dense world with a staggering amount of content, the first step was working on memory optimization. In that area, they worked with Epic to ensure the assets in the demo were set up to fully leverage virtual texture streaming and nanite wherever possible and tuned internal memory systems, ESPECIALLY on Xbox Series S, to ensure it all fit in the memory.

With this FOCUS, the Xbox Series S version shipped with all the same UE5 features enabled as Xbox Series X (albeit with different quality) including but not limited to raytraced reflections and raytraced shadows. Regardless of which platform you experience it on, you’re in for a visual treat.

How The Coalition Worked with Epic to Bring The Matrix Awakens to Life on Xbox Series X|S - Xbox Wire

Yesterday, in a surprise announcement at The Game Awards, Epic Games revealed that The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience, a new playable Unreal Engine 5 technical demo, was available for everyone on Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Created by members of the original “The Matrix”movie...

news.xbox.com

The Series S version turned out great like they said, bodes well for future UE5 games now The Coalition are getting their optimisations into the base engine.
Good that they said they think they will have Tier 2 VRS in the engine by launch for machines that support it which include Series S, so we can already see performance increases on the horizon.

 

[Schmick]

I guess you haven’t been paying attention.
I could always just get an s and get the same experience at 1080p? Oh wait…

Of course not. That’s why they call it the hard truth.

I was? Hmmm. How’s this one?

So what exactly did the team at The Coalition do? A primary focus for them was on memory and performance optimizations to fully take advantage of both Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Because the experience features an incredibly large and dense world with a staggering amount of content, the first step was working on memory optimization. In that area, they worked with Epic to ensure the assets in the demo were set up to fully leverage virtual texture streaming and nanite wherever possible and tuned internal memory systems, ESPECIALLY on Xbox Series S, to ensure it all fit in the memory.

With this FOCUS, the Xbox Series S version shipped with all the same UE5 features enabled as Xbox Series X (albeit with different quality) including but not limited to raytraced reflections and raytraced shadows. Regardless of which platform you experience it on, you’re in for a visual treat.

How The Coalition Worked with Epic to Bring The Matrix Awakens to Life on Xbox Series X|S - Xbox Wire

Yesterday, in a surprise announcement at The Game Awards, Epic Games revealed that The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience, a new playable Unreal Engine 5 technical demo, was available for everyone on Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Created by members of the original “The Matrix”movie...

news.xbox.com

Yep sounds like a gargantuan effort working on both consoles. And all that knowledge learnt can be passed onto developers. Sounds very exciting to me.

 

[FrankWza]

The Series S version turned out great like they said, bodes well for future UE5 games now The Coalition are getting their optimisations into the base engine.
Good that they said they think they will have Tier 2 VRS in the engine by launch for machines that support it which include Series S, so we can already see performance increases on the horizon.

Thats not the point and you know it. I’ve said many times you can probably get any game running on any recent hardware IF you spend enough time and resources. It’s the time and resources that’s the issue. It’s not an easy task. All so a few people could save $100 and so that Microsoft could allocate their chips to their servers.

Yep sounds like a gargantuan effort working on both consoles.

It does. That’s from xbox.c0m and it has quotes. A minute ago I was lying or twisting words.

 

[Warnen]

I guess you haven’t been paying attention.
I could always just get an s and get the same experience at 1080p? Oh wait…

Soray assumed you had a 4K tv when you said u had a ps5. If rocking a 1080p go for it.

 

[Schmick]

Thats not the point and you know it. I’ve said many times you can probably get any game running on any recent hardware IF you spend enough time and resources. It’s the time and resources that’s the issue. It’s not an easy task. All so a few people could save $100 and so that Microsoft could allocate their chips to their servers.

It does. That’s from xbox.c0m and it has quotes. A minute ago I was lying or twisting words.

That was about you stating the XSS needed a gargantuan effort alone. But now we seem to be in agreement. Its was a gargantuan effort for both consoles.

 

[Riky]

Thats not the point and you know it. I’ve said many times you can probably get any game running on any recent hardware IF you spend enough time and resources. It’s the time and resources that’s the issue. It’s not an easy task. All so a few people could save $100 and so that Microsoft could allocate their chips to their servers.

It's totally the point, The Coalition have optimisations going to the engine, this was confirmed, even ones that helped all platforms. We should all be very grateful for that.
Once they are in the engine they are there, the knowledge is there so going forward we are in great shape.
Also the difference in price between Series consoles is actually £200, if you want to play big UE5 games like Hellblade 2 and Gears Next Gen then you can save £200 and still get a great next gen UE5 experience thanks to this sort of groundwork.
It's a great time to jump in.

 

[FrankWza]

That was about you stating the XSS needed a gargantuan effort alone. But now we seem to be in agreement. Its was a gargantuan effort for both consoles.

I guess those bolded words, especially and focus, are meaningless.

It's totally the point, The Coalition have optimisations going to the engine, this was confirmed, even ones that helped all platforms. We should all be very grateful for that.
Once they are in the engine they are there, the knowledge is there so going forward we are in great shape.
Also the difference in price between Series consoles is actually £200, if you want to play big UE5 games like Hellblade 2 and Gears Next Gen then you can save £200 and still get a great next gen UE5 experience thanks to this sort of groundwork.
It's a great time to jump in.

It would be $400 if they made an identical digital sku. No more extra effort or focus needed. quite a shift for you in this post though. I thought all they had to do was scale and press a button or 2? Now we’re on the experience and knowledge phase…

Soray assumed you had a 4K tv when you said u had a ps5. If rocking a 1080p go for it.

#Blackandwhitetube4life

 

[Riky]

I guess those bolded words, especially and focus, are meaningless.

It would be $400 if they made an identical digital sku. No more extra effort or focus needed. quite a shift for you in this post though. I thought all they had to do was scale and press a button or 2? Now we’re on the experience and knowledge phase…

The digital Series X doesn't exist, best to deal with realities. All platform holders have different visions, that's best for everyone rather than all three following the same path.
I never said anything about "pressing a button or 2" I think you've made that up.
Microsoft had the vision to move Xbox to a joint GDK with Windows PC, this means the consoles slot into that scale that already exists where there is both low and high end targets
It's a great strategy, very forward thinking.

 

[DarkMage619]

The desperation in these words is incredible. That article proves it. Yet, you’re still typing things you don’t understand or can’t comprehend.
The guy said “same experience at lower resolution” in the hype video and you tried to interpret it differently. Now you’re shown this article that literally interprets and goes into great detail that 120 FPS and Ray tracing are FEATURES and quotes Ronald saying it. He was interviewed for this. Do you think it goes to print without Microsoft PR team approving it? If a mistake was made it would have been amended by now.
Now these features are being omitted despite the lowered resolutions. Time is being wasted on a system when the lead consoles could be further optimized. There’s no scaling or flip switching. It’s hard to develop for. Period. Otherwise, developers would not need to REMOVE features the lead consoles have on the same games. Including halo which received an extra YEAR and a ton of extra funding.

Oh Frank you spend time arguing about a system you don't own and say I'M desperate? You in here defending Jim Ryan's 'belief in generations' and accuse me of being on the MS PR team? It's like you are telling a horrible joke. Try looking in the mirror sir as you DEFEND digital store monopolies and lack of 3rd party controller choice just because you love Sony. I HOPE they are paying you bro cause there is no reason to support that anti-consumer madness. NONE.

Yes 120fps and raytracing are GRAPHICAL features. I clearly stated in my last post that as the resolution increases the framerate decreases. If you are starting at an already lower resolution it isn't shocking or surprising that the 120fps mode wouldn't be used. 60fps is way more practical. People with common sense understand that simple point. I suppose to be fair no one accused you of having any.

Metro Exodus was attacked because it had all the graphical bells and whistles with raytracing and 60fps but it was sub 720p resolution at many times. That game proves its possible to lower the resolution you keep harping on but it can make it harder to see the details of the game. The development team can make the choice to simply not use certain effects to focus on other parts of the visual presentation. Still there was no missing CONTENT, the actual experience of the game.

What point are you even making? That XSS should have 120fps in all games? Nonsense, no system uses all its features in every game. That the XSS lacks core features the XSX has? Nonsense the XSS has every feature the XSX has minus a blu-ray drive. Jason Ronald is responsible for the graphical choices game developers use? Pure and utter nonsense. Mark Cerny couldn't convince Housemarque to enable raytracing mode on Returnal.

Why don't you contact Sony to discuss the next ridiculous point you want to make in another Xbox thread. You have clearly lost any semblance of a reasonable argument here. It's pretty clear you never had one in the first place.

I own a PS5 and I buy 3rd party games. If that’s what you are relegated to using as an excuse…..

Thanks for confirming what we all knew. You don't own the XSS yet spend an inordinate amount of time posting nonsense about a platform that doesn't affect you in the least. That is quite sad.

 

[Schmick]

I guess those bolded words, especially and focus, are meaningless.

Wasn't meaningless. Its appears our interpretation of the article is different.

You seem to be concerned over the effort Coalition has to put in to get the Matrix Demo working on the XSS. Which you have already stated you don't own.

Me on the other hand have read the article and taken a huge positive from it. The lessons learnt and the end product. What was learnt can be passed onto other developers.

 

[Lognor]

Thanks for confirming what we all knew. You don't own the XSS yet spend an inordinate amount of time posting nonsense about a platform that doesn't affect you in the least. That is quite sad.

Yeah, I don't get this guy. He is a PS5 fanboy but he is SO triggered by the XSS. Like, why? Maybe the fact that it is selling decently is triggering him? It's a mystery!

 

[dcmk7]

So what exactly did the team at The Coalition do? A primary focus for them was on memory and performance optimizations to fully take advantage of both Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Because the experience features an incredibly large and dense world with a staggering amount of content, the first step was working on memory optimization. In that area, they worked with Epic to ensure the assets in the demo were set up to fully leverage virtual texture streaming and nanite wherever possible and tuned internal memory systems, ESPECIALLY on Xbox Series S, to ensure it all fit in the memory.

Sounds like a thankless and tedious task.

 

[Schmick]

Sounds like a thankless and tedious task.

I'm not a developer but I bet there are always tedious tasks in game development.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

It also seems Microsoft are the ones raising the bar, I don't know of any first party games for next year that are still coming to last gen consoles, unless they haven't announced it.
Maybe because of their investment in Cloud Gaming for last gen and Gamepass they feel they can go forward without leaving last gen owners with nothing.
Seems like they have timed and planned it all quite well.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/we-b...s-gen-games-risk-stifling-innovation.1556307/

This thread aged worse than milk

 

[DeepEnigma]

Last night I scrolled through both systems trying to find something compelling to play that I haven't already.. and went to netflix.

The only losers this holiday are me, myself, and I.

FTFY

 

[ReBurn]

It's more likely that the XSS will be the baseline in a year or so. If you know you have lower spec hardware that your game has to run on then you don't push the stronger box as much as you would if you only had to design around the PS5 and XSX

Not everything scales linearly

I don't think it will become the baseline for everything, not across the board. Not if developers want people to buy games. I think the most likely scenario is most games are gimped for the XSS and push the more powerful hardware harder. i think the annual sports franchises are probably the only ones where this is going to be an issue because those are already low effort reposts.

 

[FrankWza]

Oh Frank you spend time arguing about a system you don't own and say I'M desperate?

Not nearly as much time as you do defending it. When your series x came back from warranty did you sell it and get a series s? Is that why you are always defending it?

Try looking in the mirror sir as you DEFEND digital store monopolies and lack of 3rd party controller choice just because you love Sony.

My god. This is embarrassing. Keep reaching…

I HOPE they are paying you bro cause there is no reason to support that anti-consumer madness. NONE.

and we’re supposed to believe you own a PS5?

Yes 120fps and raytracing are GRAPHICAL features. I clearly stated in my last post that as the resolution increases the framerate decreases. If you are starting at an already lower resolution it isn't shocking or surprising that the 120fps mode wouldn't be used. 60fps is way more practical. People with common sense understand that simple point. I suppose to be fair no one accused you of having any.

But…they REMOVED it. It had it and the needed to take it out.

What point are you even making? That XSS should have 120fps in all games?

Not once. If I did you can quote me.

Nonsense the XSS has every feature the XSX has minus a blu-ray drive.

not on GotG and not on Halo.

Why don't you contact Sony to discuss the next ridiculous point you want to make in another Xbox thread. You have clearly lost any semblance of a reasonable argument here. It's pretty clear you never had one in the first place.

I mean…come on now. You see yourself fading here. Right?

And now, just to prove you’ll go round and round in circles and don’t even know what you’re typing half the time…where have we seen this post before?

Thanks for confirming what we all knew. You don't own the XSS yet spend an inordinate amount of time posting nonsense about a platform that doesn't affect you in the least. That is quite sad.

Oh yes…it was how you started the same post.

Oh Frank you spend time arguing about a system you don't own

no wonder you’re dizzy.