Buying a new car - advice for negotiating with a dealer

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n64coder

n64coder

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EDIT: FYI - I'm a cash buyer, no trade-in

I'm in the market to buy a new car and was wondering if anyone had advice on dealer negotiation? I want to get the best deal with the minimum amount of time/work on my part if possible.

The last time I bought a new car was in 2008 and I used edmunds.com to find out the dealer cost and negotiated to pay something like $500 over invoice.

It seems that edmunds/consume reports redirect you to truecar and it doesn't look like there's any way to get the dealer cost.

I'm interested in the 2016 Nissan Altima SL with the technology package (premium stereo/navigation/etc) and the moonroof. I have gone to three different dealers and got their prices. The only issue I see is that the car at each dealer is different.

One dealer has exactly what I want. The second dealer added some of their own stuff (pinstripes - yuck, it can be removed, interior/exterior protection, door guards, splash guargs). The third dealer has some extra stuff that are factory installed (lighted kick plate, bumper guards, splash guards, etc). So I have to compare the quotes and see which one is the best deal.

The next step would be to get the price lower. This is where I'm looking for advice.

I would rather do it over email/phone without having to go back to the dealer again except to put the deposit down, sign paper work. So how do I figure out the lowest that a dealer will go?
 
Always negotiate in person if possible.

If you can't get the price you want, try and get value added items, like free servicing, mats, full fuel tank etc etc.
 
do you have a realistic price in your mind of what you want your monthly payments to be?

you need to be aggressive with them and not give in to their little acts, (i had a salesman tell me he had to make this sale otherwise he couldnt feed his family that night, lol)

chances are you wont agree to terms the first day at the dealership, its always best to go at the end of the month when the are looking to make sales for that month.

Also ask to see the invoice, it gives you an idea of what they paid for the car and could help you coming up with a number. also if you are financing make sure to secure your own rate ahead of time, this lets them know that you are serious about buying.
 
Never negotiate in person. Car salesmen are the most economically useless and dishonest people on the planet. -Get it in writing.

All you need to do is FAX (email will result in you being on their spam list, so second option) the exact model and features you want to three different dealers and then run a reverse auction..

Treat them like the shit piles they are and have no sympathy or humanity towards them.
 
Gallbaro said:
Never negotiate in person. Car salesmen are the most economically useless and dishonest people on the planet. -Get it in writing.

All you need to do is FAX (email will result in you being on their spam list, so second option) the exact model and features you want to three different dealers and then run a reverse auction..

Treat them like the shit piles they are and have no sympathy or humanity towards them.
Click to expand...

hahahaha holy shit
 
Months ago I was at a VW dealership(their brand and reputation took a big hit a while back with that whole diesel gas or what not)..they were trying to sell me the Jetta S for around $24,000 and after 30 minutes, they dropped down to $16,800 as I mentioned their reputation and PR in trouble.

So if anyone is really looking for a Jetta, mention it and do some research..can def get a good deal.
 
Gallbaro said:
Never negotiate in person. Car salesmen are the most economically useless and dishonest people on the planet. -Get it in writing.

All you need to do is FAX (email will result in you being on their spam list, so second option) the exact model and features you want to three different dealers and then run a reverse auction..

Treat them like the shit piles they are and have no sympathy or humanity towards them.
Click to expand...

While agree wih this methodology, you are wrong about car sales people. Sadly the bad ones ruin it for the rest.

My dad sold cars for decades, pretty sure from all the letters and recommendations from customers that he wasnt a shit bag, and many of the guys who worked with him were indeed not shit bags.

Just like any other job though they get their hands tied by management or have to ask certain things.

Sadly too many dealerships have moved to the shitty method of selling, oddly no one ever created a site for rating dealerships for these kinds of things because in all honesty finding a car is easy, finding a dealership that is on the level is so much harder. They do still exist.

As for my Dad he left when the dealer he had worked at for nearly 30 years when they started pushing more towards the shitty pressure selling methods. He didn't want to be one of those kinds of guys. Being upfront, honest and polite sold a lot more cars for him than being the guy who always pushed hard.

I do agree though that trying to keep it as impersonable as possible is smart. Use email, set up on just for buying the car. Set a price you want to pay, not a monthly payment. Email/fax three or four deaerships and see who wins.

Especially roght now at the end of the month, you will get a lot of offers. Going through the sales manager dorectly will tend to get you a better deal too.

Bet of luck, hopefully you won't have to deal with a shitty dealership.
 
Start by plugging in everything you can about the car into Truecar. Make sure you have screenshots of that, as well as the listings of the other cars you were looking at (to show you did research and you can just go to another dealer if you don't get what you want). Then when the time comes to discuss price, stay tight-lipped and let them make the first offer. Counter it with something lower than the Truecar estimate, and they'll probably come back with a compromise price in the middle.

If you can get to Truecar or below, you're doing pretty good; just keep in mind that dealers have to make money too and they can't go so low that they erode their entire margin. Also keep in mind that there are freight fees, title fees, and taxes that are added to the car's selling price that the dealer doesn't really have any control over. Truecar sometimes, but doesn't always, take those into account.
 
danowat said:
Always negotiate in person if possible.

If you can't get the price you want, try and get value added items, like free servicing, mats, full fuel tank etc etc.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I like the idea of getting some free servicing. Any tips on what to ask for?
The cars I buy are loaded so they come with the mats, and they always wash/prep the car and fill it with gas when you pick it up.

Friggz said:
do you have a realistic price in your mind of what you want your monthly payments to be?
Click to expand...

I'm a cash buyer. I already got my settlement from the insurance company and also got a loan from lightstream for the rest.

Friggz said:
chances are you wont agree to terms the first day at the dealership, its always best to go at the end of the month when the are looking to make sales for that month.
Click to expand...

I wasn't sure how true this was anymore about going at the end of the month. The problem I have is that the car I'm choosing is the more premium model and there tend to be fewer of them on the lot. If I went with a more vanilla model where the dealer has a bunch on the lot, I think they're more flexible on the pricing.

Friggz said:
Also ask to see the invoice, it gives you an idea of what they paid for the car and could help you coming up with a number.
Click to expand...

Ok, good advice. The only caveat with dealer invoice is that sometimes there are incentives/promotions from the factory that can help the dealer's margin that you don't know about. That's why sometimes you just have to push multiple dealers and ask them to give their best price.

Gallbaro said:
Never negotiate in person. Car salesmen are the most economically useless and dishonest people on the planet. -Get it in writing.

All you need to do is FAX (email will result in you being on their spam list, so second option) the exact model and features you want to three different dealers and then run a reverse auction..

Treat them like the shit piles they are and have no sympathy or humanity towards them.
Click to expand...

I haven't had any luck trying to negotiate over email. It seems that an in-person visit is required to show that you are serious.

One nice thing about TrueCar or Nissan's website is that you can see which models are on the dealer's lot and their colors/features. It helps you to figure out if there's a good deal. The problem I found with TrueCar is that sometimes they don't spell out the options out and you have to read the details/prints to figure it out. For instance, one dealer TrueCar page shows [06] Technology Package, [05] Moonroof. The other dealer doesn't show this but it's included if you look at the fine print.
 
Through my work I can get preferred pricing on any Chrysler or Ford vehicle (something like 500 off invoice) plus any manufacturer incentives. All you need is proof of your eligibility and he dealership has to show/give you that price. Worth looking into if you work somewhere that has corporate discounts for employees
 
There's probably a Nissan Altima owners forum out there with a thread on prices paid so you might want to use that for reference as well
 
Internet quotes are usually pretty aggressive so that you will come to the dealership in person. I would get an Internet quote (which they will honor) then try to work them down from there in person. Most of all, remember they do not give a fuck about you and want nothing more than to fuck you as hard as they possibly can although they will pretend to be your best friend.
 
Also is there any reason you are dead set on new?

Its such a bad dea as the car loses all monetary value immediately.

You alsonhave much less negotiating power as well. Buying used can save you tons and you can often work out more perks.


Of and one last piece of advice get some kind of pre-approval letter from a bank or credit union. Know where you Beacon score is and be on top of it as the finance guys are usually the worst.
 
n64coder said:
I'm a cash buyer. I already got my settlement from the insurance company and also got a loan from lightstream for the rest.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what APR did you get from Lightstream? They were one of the three places I went to try to secure financing but they only offered me 2.24% on a 60 month loan; PenFed ended up beating them for me, at 1.99%. (The dealer had offered 2.7%, lol)

Also had an insurance settlement check in hand. Bad month for cars I guess.

tebunker said:
Also is there any reason you are dead set on new?

Its such a bad dea as the car loses all monetary value immediately.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for OP but for me I was after collision prevention features (lane departure warnings, automatic braking, etc.) that are too new to be prevalent in the used market.
 
I second the never negotiate in person mentality. Gallbaro's strategy is very popular nowadays with online chat reps/autotrader/etc. Treat your car deal like a RFP and blitz every dealer around you with the specs you're looking for and CC every other car dealer so they know they're competing. Put pressure on your local dealer. They don't like to lose sales to out of town dealerships. Also find the contact information for the regional sales manager, his manager, and the CEO and CC them as well.
 
Thaedolus said:
Through my work I can get preferred pricing on any Chrysler or Ford vehicle (something like 500 off invoice) plus any manufacturer incentives. All you need is proof of your eligibility and he dealership has to show/give you that price. Worth looking into if you work somewhere that has corporate discounts for employees
Click to expand...

Is this different than Ford's X-Plan? I used that through my work to purchase my Mustang GT Premium. I don't know how it compares to what invoice is, but my final price (before trade) was ~$35,000 which was a pretty good discount from the sticker price of $38,500.
 
Whichever strategy you use to negotiate, keep in mind that you will not be driving a car off the lot unless the dealer is making money. The trick is to make you feel like you are ripping them off, when in turn the opposite is happening.

I would also suggest to not take just the bottom line price into consideration when purchasing. Take into consideration the reputation of the dealer and what kind of service you will be getting after the fact. I'll gladly pay a little more for a car knowing I'm purchasing it from a dealer with an outstanding service department rather than pay a little less and then have the dealer act like they never knew me once I'm out of sight.
 
Just for reference I had a friend buy his Toyota online from Colorado and even after taxes and shipping it was still cheaper than any other dealership within 50 miles of Cleveland.

So don't limit yourself.

I know in Virginia people would routinely go to DC to get a car because they thought it was more competitive, but in reality they should have been setting DC against Richmond and the Tidewater area. DC caught on and started playing games and a lot of tim you could get a car cheaper, but once you had all three areas in competition all bets were off.
 
tebunker said:
Also is there any reason you are dead set on new?

Its such a bad dea as the car loses all monetary value immediately.

You alsonhave much less negotiating power as well. Buying used can save you tons and you can often work out more perks.


Of and one last piece of advice get some kind of pre-approval letter from a bank or credit union. Know where you Beacon score is and be on top of it as the finance guys are usually the worst.
Click to expand...

Agree on the new car thing. Best to go with used in most cases.

Also highlighting this because preapproval helps with keeping them from financing your car which is usually a big no-no.
 
Gallbaro said:
Never negotiate in person. Car salesmen are the most economically useless and dishonest people on the planet. -Get it in writing.

All you need to do is FAX (email will result in you being on their spam list, so second option) the exact model and features you want to three different dealers and then run a reverse auction..

Treat them like the shit piles they are and have no sympathy or humanity towards them.
Click to expand...

That's bullshit - I've been going to the same dealership for years and they treat me very well. It all depends on the people. Grouping everyone into a bracket is just dumb.
 
I emailed and asked every dealer within 100 miles of what I wanted then took the lowest emailed offer to my closest dealer and handed it to them after the initially proposed a price $4k higher. They accepted it with a little fussing (had to pay $150 for the splash guards they installed, and I made them peel off the pin stripe which was hideous anyway).

I was surprised that the lowest offer from that one dealer was actually below what I was prepared to pay for the car. And he was only 50 miles away, so I could have easily gone up there.
 
I always just get them to come to what I want, don't even need a print out or anything. They are the desperate ones, you have control.

Also, always keep in mind what the APR is. They will mask the price per month with an APR that can always be brought down. They will come down 1000 but then give you a APR a few % points over it to make it seem good.

Finally, dont say anything about a trade in or down payment until you get the price down to what you want.
 
Never make the sale the first time you are there. Do whatever negotiation tricks you want, and after you get the best price you can get, walk out on whatever they have to offer.

This gives you the option to sleep on it, or go to another dealer and compare. The sales person will be desperate to close the deal the first time, don't give in.
 
I used true car (and another site I forget) for our last 3 car purchases. Never set a foot inside a dealership for any of them other then to pick up the cars. You get the local dealers to call you with their "best" price and then you play the top 2-3 off each other until no one is willing to move any further and pick the cheapest one. It can get a little time consuming when they start moving $100 at a time and you have to call them back and forth 3-4 times a day, but it is much less of a hassle then trying to do it in person. You normally end up working directly with the sales manager since the floor guys are too busy with people on site to be bothered to waste time on the phone. You then get pawned off to the worst sales guy they have when you go to sign the paper work. Don't expect any customer service at that point, the sales guy will be pissed that you are getting a deal without ever working with him but he will still beg for the best rating on the post sale surveys (if your manufacturer of choice does those). For added fun be sure to tell the finance guy up front you aren't using them and don't want their warranty trash. He still has to go through the whole speech for each of them and you get to see the suffering in his eyes knowing how much of a scam they are.

Oh, you can't do a trade in either this way since it gives them leverage you don't want them to have. If you are selling a current vehicle, do it privately to get more for it and avoid them tricking you into paying more then you realize on the new car.
 
Email/fax all the dealers around you. Just ask for a quote and none of that how much can you afford a month bs. Get a loan from your local credit union unless said brand is doing 0% financing.
 
Invoice price doesn't mean anything. If you want the least hassle and you have a costco membership, you can go to the costco auto site and go with the pre-negotiated no haggle price which is about $800 under invoice. Dealerships make most of their money on new cars through factory bonuses for selling a certain quota and through the interest on loans but you can get a loan from your own bank or pay in cash.

Truecar is a great site to see what other people actually paid in your area. Assuming you know what car you want, just negotiate online bidding dealers against each other and be polite yet firm about your offer. If you don't care about a certain option, then it shouldn't be something that has value for you. It's worth it to drive an extra 30 minutes to find more dealerships with the exact car you want.

Trade ins are up to you. You'll get maybe %30 less for the car you have but it saves the time and hassle of selling unless you have a pretty desirable car with a reasonable asking price around what kbb estimates. In which case you could sell it within a week.
 
I just bought a car for an excellent price well under MSRP by doing nothing other than emailing all of the dealers in the area (except for the closest dealer I was hoping to buy from). Get the contact for the internet sales manager and ask for their best and final price. Tell them you're shopping around. Once you get their prices just work them against each other. I had that specific dealer in mind that I mentioned for no other reason than convenience, so I took the best offer I got somewhere else and told them if they met it I'd give them a deposit immediately to secure the car. They accepted it and I bought the car within a week.
 
tebunker said:
Also is there any reason you are dead set on new?

Its such a bad dea as the car loses all monetary value immediately.
Click to expand...

I always buy new and then drive my car into the ground. Before my car was totaled, it was 8 years old with 125K miles. I could have driven it for another 5 years at least since it was well maintained. My previous new car was a 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee that I sold after 14 years and 230K miles.

StarCreator said:
Out of curiosity, what APR did you get from Lightstream? They were one of the three places I went to try to secure financing but they only offered me 2.24% on a 60 month loan; PenFed ended up beating them for me, at 1.99%. (The dealer had offered 2.7%, lol)

Also had an insurance settlement check in hand. Bad month for cars I guess.
Click to expand...

I got 1.74% from Lightstream. PenFed was second with the 1.99% rate that you got. The rest were around 3%+.

In my situation, I was rear-ended while waiting for someone to use the crosswalk. The driver was 20 and said he took his eyes momentarily to look at his girlfriend. LOL. Fortunately, no one was hurt but my trunk was really smashed in. The guy's car looked ok ( 04 Dodge Stratus) but enough internal damage was done such that it wouldn't start/move.

StarCreator said:
I can't speak for OP but for me I was after collision prevention features (lane departure warnings, automatic braking, etc.) that are too new to be prevalent in the used market.
Click to expand...

Yes, those are cool features. Plus, I was looking forward to having bluetooth audio (my old car only had bluetooth phone).
 
rokkerkory said:
truecar.com

no need for negotiating
Click to expand...

One thing about TrueCar is that it might not be their best price. I got a much better offer in person. Plus, when you look at TrueCar, you can see the range (high/low/average) for that car. I guess I could try TrueCar again but put my range as 500 miles or something like that.
 
Decide on your walk-away price ceiling and stick to it. Go at the end of the month (quarter even better) when the salespeople are trying to hit quota.
 
Use truecar to get a price range, but don't use it to get quotes right away. If you strike out on the email effort and the truecar price is decent, you can do that. They will usually still negotiate down a bit from there too since they know you get a quote from multiple dealers usually.

Also with financing, go in with it secured but for convenience I'd be willing to get the dealer to match or better it. The buying process is easier if they do it honestly and chances are high they'll try to beat it.
 
Don't be tricked into that how much you can afford a month paymentwise b/s. Sure those payments sound great, but how long will you be paying for the car? Get the best price for the car and the decent payments will follow.

Don't be afraid to walk. If they can meet what you're looking for you'll hear back from them.
 
About buying new and driving the car into the ground, why not do the same with a certified used with low mileage for a potentially better overall value?
 
Al-ibn Kermit said:
Invoice price doesn't mean anything. If you want the least hassle and you have a costco membership, you can go to the costco auto site and go with the pre-negotiated no haggle price which is about $800 under invoice. Dealerships make most of their money on new cars through factory bonuses for selling a certain quota and through the interest on loans but you can get a loan from your own bank or pay in cash.

Truecar is a great site to see what other people actually paid in your area. Assuming you know what car you want, just negotiate online bidding dealers against each other and be polite yet firm about your offer. If you don't care about a certain option, then it shouldn't be something that has value for you. It's worth it to drive an extra 30 minutes to find more dealerships with the exact car you want.

Trade ins are up to you. You'll get maybe %30 less for the car you have but it saves the time and hassle of selling unless you have a pretty desirable car with a reasonable asking price around what kbb estimates. In which case you could sell it within a week.
Click to expand...

Is costco auto any good? I'd love to hear from anyone with experience using that service.

I see people recommending truecar, but I'm not sure they are the resource they used to be, because they partnered with the dealerships.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Maybe he's willing to pay for a new car with the features he wants?
Click to expand...

I see now where in the post he mentioned about the features, and of course if those are important to him he should go for it, I just wasn't sure how important they were to him vs. the value proposition of a new car; he seemed potentially more keen on Bluetooth which many used cars may now have. But, as you suggest, there's nothing wrong with shelling out for a new car if the features it has are important to you, and I wouldn't want to dissuade the OP from that, only to make sure the extra cost and value proposition is worth it to him.
 
I can't believe that in this information age people still try buying cars the old fashion way. There are tools like truecar and online car brokers that will tell you what the dealer paid for the car and what people are paying for the car. Yet I still see people on social media posting about their 8 hour nightmare experience at the dealership, etc. The last 2 cars I've purchased i spent no longer than 1 hour filling out the paperwork and getting the keys. All because I did my homework, researched, and negotiated beforehand.
 
camajise said:
I can't believe that in this information age people still try buying cars the old fashion way. There are tools like truecar and online car brokers that will tell you what the dealer paid for the car and what people are paying for the car. Yet I still see people on social media posting about their 8 hour nightmare experience at the dealership, etc. The last 2 cars I've purchased i spent no longer than 1 hour filling out the paperwork and getting the keys. All because I did my homework, researched, and negotiated beforehand.
Click to expand...

In part because car dealer networks lobby congress and state government to continue to have a pointless middle man monopoly that ultimately harms consumers and makes car buying the most stressful retail experience in America.
 
camajise said:
I can't believe that in this information age people still try buying cars the old fashion way. There are tools like truecar and online car brokers that will tell you what the dealer paid for the car and what people are paying for the car. Yet I still see people on social media posting about their 8 hour nightmare experience at the dealership, etc. The last 2 cars I've purchased i spent no longer than 1 hour filling out the paperwork and getting the keys. All because I did my homework, researched, and negotiated beforehand.
Click to expand...

I've purchased a few new cars and never came close to getting it in an hour. Even when paying cash which drastically reduces the paper work involved, it took a few hours before I was out the door.
 
Gallbaro said:
Never negotiate in person. Car salesmen are the most economically useless and dishonest people on the planet. -Get it in writing.

All you need to do is FAX (email will result in you being on their spam list, so second option) the exact model and features you want to three different dealers and then run a reverse auction..

Treat them like the shit piles they are and have no sympathy or humanity towards them.
Click to expand...

I think its more dealer to dealer. As an example my last car purchase was flawless and the sale person did not fuck around with me. None "let me talk to the manager", "let me see what the best price is", "what would you like your monthly payment to be?" bullshit. I was in and out with my car the same day for the price I wanted to pay.

Now compare that to the utter and total shitbags that work the sales floor at Minuetman Volkswagen, in Bedford MA. I believe that the managers there just want the sale to happen, and refuse to act like humans.
My favorite tactic these shitbags still do today (no matter how many times I tell them to add me to the do not call list) is the "we have a customer who totaled their car, and it just so happens that your model year is the only one the insurance company will replace it with, how about you come on down and...."

TL;DR: Its the dealership that controls the experience, and Fuck Minuetman Volkswagen, in Bedford MA.
 
Lombax said:
None "let me talk to the manager", "let me see what the best price is", "what would you like your monthly payment to be?" bullshit.
Click to expand...

Why is "let me talk to the manager" bullshit? I suppose it depends on the dealer but it's reasonable to expect the sales manager to have the final say on pricing below a certain threshold.
 
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