Tams
Member
That depends on what the platform holder wants. You can use decreases in resistor size to increase clock speeds etc. for an increase in performance, or use it to increase power draw. Or any mix in-between.
Can people please understand that Switch 2 COULD be more powerful than Steam Deck?!
That depends on what the platform holder wants. You can use decreases in resistor size to increase clock speeds etc. for an increase in performance, or use it to increase power draw. Or any mix in-between.
Resenge
Member
So, just like the Steam Deck? Got ya.
Tams
Member
The Steam Deck is also a computer, yes.
DetectiveBananas
Member
If it comes with the Power Glove 2 than I'm all in!
Resenge
Member
Thanks for the confirmation.
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Bruno_Arrais85
Member
I would be really surprise if the switch 2 ends up being equal or better than the Deck.
anothertech
Member
It will be powerful as PS4pro... almost.
Exede
Member
We.... simply don't know. Nintendo has a new CEO maybe things change and we have Game Cube era Nintendo back where they had the most powerful console of the gen. I mean i have absolutly no doubt that the Switch successor has at least double the power of the Switch. They learned their lesson with Wii U!
Funny that ms forgoing cutting edge with the s also seems a winning strategy, and chasing power required bank rolling losses no matter what
Though really Nintendo didn't abandon power Sony just went off the rails with power usage before with the ps3 and ms didn't understand consoles ever original xbox included, no console hit near 100 watts until those 2 blew past it
Really the switch just uses historic console power levels
I Master l
Banned
Its technically impossible to have the series s power level in a portable, Not even the Xbox One power is possible with the Switch from factor
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genesisblock
Member
This is a ridiculous claim. Unlike Nintendo, Valve isn't restricted to Generational designs. If there is demand for it, they can always opt for the latest in-spec. Steam deck is obviously a trojan for Linux gaming. And I am all for it.
Zannegan
Member
I'm not saying Nintendo WILL put out something more powerful than an Xbox One, but it should certainly be technically possible. The Switch itself is something like 1/3 Xbox One levels while docked, and the original launched almost six years ago.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Completely unrealistic. What's realistic is (best case) ~Base PS4 in docked mode and Steam Deck like performance in handheld mode. This is assuming it is some custom version of the Tegra Orin.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Techpowerup says Steam Deck is rated at 1.6 TF while Xbox One is 1.3 TF. Why is XSS power level "impossible" in a handheld?
asdasdasdbb
Member
Series S is 4 TF, so it's several times the One. The full Tegra Orin btw is 5+ TF albeit at 60 W.
Topher
Identifies as young
I looked up Xbox One because the post I replied to said Xbox One power level was not possible in a handheld.
So Tegra Odin suggests XSS is already possible in handheld, but the battery life would suck, correct?
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asdasdasdbb
Member
60 W is far too much for a handheld. The deck is like 15-20.
Topher
Identifies as young
Makes sense. So one of the less powerful varieties of Orin would be more likely. Orin NX is 3.76 TF and power draw of 10-25. Orin Nano would be more likely for Nintendo though. 2.56 TF and 7-15 pd which would allow for a smaller form factor I would think.
Woopah
Member
Base PS4 power + DLSS would take it above PS4 Pro in terms of actual output right?
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Disagree. We can put a 3070 in a laptop and the Steam Deck already isn't that far away from the Series S.
If Nintendo wanted to, they could make the Switch 2 more powerful than the Steam Deck and very, very close to the Series S.
The chip doesn't need to be run at 60W. As the power usage increases, you get very large diminishing returns on performance. People are undervolting RX 4090 cards and a 1-3% performance drop, results in a 25-30% power usage drop. People have also found limiting the Steam Deck's power draw can give you better performance since there is less heat generated so the clocks stay higher longer rather than boosting high, heating up, and then throttling back down to maintain temperature.
The Steam Deck is also already somewhere between the Xbox One S and base Playstation 4 when gaming at 800p. That means while it doesn't have the same raw power, if you run console-equivalent graphics settings at 800p, the frame rate will match what the Xbox One S hits.
The Steam Deck also uses Zen 2 CPU cores and RDNA 2 GPU cores. This is the same configuration as the PS5/Xbox Series, though the Deck has few cores at lower speeds. There are already other handhelds getting Zen 3 with RDNA 2. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Zen 3 with RDNA 3 if not Zen 4 with RDNA 3 in a year or so.
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01011001
Banned
a portable Series S is absolutely possible, but it won't be financially viable until like 3 years down the line I think.
the Steam Deck itself is a better indicator tho than the Tegra chipsets by Nvidia.
the Deck is already 1.6TF peak and uses the exact same architecture as the Series S.
if we assume a steady increase in performance with the same power draw as the Deck then 3 years should be when a mobile RDNA and Ryzen SoC as powerful as the Series S should be possible.
the real question is if Microsoft wants to do that, but I think they absolutely could.
I think if Nintendo uses the SoC that has been leaked a few months backl, the system in Handheld mode will be more like 2TF, which is absolutely enough for a handheld. i just hope that they don't underclock the Docked mode again like they did with the Switch 1... because that was entirely unnecessary as we now due to modded systems playing games just fine at max clock speeds of the original X1 (the Mariko revision could run even faster tho)
BootsLoader
Banned
Nintendo SwitchDS.
I Master l
Banned
I said "Switch form factor" do you think the Switch and the Deck have the same dimensions?
asdasdasdbb
Member
The 3.76 number is for FP16 and not FP32. FP32 is half that, so 1.88 TF FP32, which is comparable to the Base PS4. Bandwidth is likely going to be worse tho.
Topher
Identifies as young
You also said "in a portable". The dimensions are not exactly the same but they both have portable form factors. And since we are talking about the next Switch, the dimensions are not necessarily going to be the same in any case. Either way, you are not explaining why any of this is "impossible".
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I Master l
Banned
Series S is performance is not possible in portable even in a Deck sized one, Xbox 1 performance is not possible in
Switch sized portable, and i dont think Nintendo is stupid enough to make Switch 2 as big as the the Deck, its a
portable but doesn't provide pleasant portable experience
Topher
Identifies as young
So there will never ever be a handheld with the power of the Series S? That's what it seems that you are implying by saying it is "impossible". Or do you mean not possible with today's tech?
Edit: And what about the Avaneo Air Pro? Has a Vega 8 GPU which is more powerful than Xbox One. CPU is much more powerful.
Ayaneo shows off Air Pro console small PCB design with AMD Barcelo APU - VideoCardz.com
AyaNeo Air is 22.4cm console with OLED screen and AMD Barcelo APU The Air Pro is the upcoming lightweight gaming console featuring AMD ‘new’ APU. Air Pro vs Steam Deck & Nintendo Switch OLED, Source: AYANEO AMD Barcelo is a refresh of Cezanne based on Zen3 architecture, so not the latest...
videocardz.com
AMD Radeon Graphics 512SP Specs
AMD Cezanne, 2000 MHz, 512 Cores, 32 TMUs, 8 ROPs
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I Master l
Banned
DF says Steam deck is about 50-70% faster than the Air Pro and the Steam Deck itself can barely keep up with the PS4 so its not as
fast as the Xbox 1 add to that Air Pro will have about an hour to 90min battery life when playing demanding games which is
abysmal number, but you do have a point 2 years from now it could be possible to have Xbox 1 performance in a Switch sized
portable with good battery life
marquimvfs
Member
I'm the only one that thinks that Nintendo will drop retrocompatibility with switch and will go full mobile arm? My bet is that they will made some Apple like custom solution, put on some foundry and it will be basically like any high end smartphone from today, with an hdmi output and detachable controllers. Even switching to AMD is more plausible than any future Nvidia solution.
I read docked switch uses just under 10w when playing games undocked and just over 10w when docked.
It is this figure that limits how powerful the next switch will be.
The series S uses 74 watts when playing games, and is built on TSMC's 7 nm process node, the current most efficient chips Apple M2 are made using TSMC's second-generation 5nm process (N5P).
Currently and I believe for the next couple of years it is unlikely that chip manufacturing will improve enough to produce a chip as powerful as Series S that runs in a 10watt envelope required for a mass consumer handheld of switch size.
Cutting edge chip manufacturing processes are currently turning out to be very expensive so it is also unlikely that price/profit conscious Nintendo would use a cutting edge design/manufacturing process.
So there you go that's why we can't have nice things.
It is this figure that limits how powerful the next switch will be.
The series S uses 74 watts when playing games, and is built on TSMC's 7 nm process node, the current most efficient chips Apple M2 are made using TSMC's second-generation 5nm process (N5P).
Currently and I believe for the next couple of years it is unlikely that chip manufacturing will improve enough to produce a chip as powerful as Series S that runs in a 10watt envelope required for a mass consumer handheld of switch size.
Cutting edge chip manufacturing processes are currently turning out to be very expensive so it is also unlikely that price/profit conscious Nintendo would use a cutting edge design/manufacturing process.
So there you go that's why we can't have nice things.
Topher
Identifies as young
Ah....ok. I was only going by teraflops, but not one to one obviously with different architectures.
Captain Toad
Banned
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Klosshufvud
Member
Good points. Nintendo opts for really low power draws. The Nvidia Shield SoC of Switch was also severely downclocked due to low power budget.
It's not in Nintendo's interest to beat Steam Deck on power. Their interest is to deliver just enough power to make the leap from Switch noticeable while also pushing for small form factor (Nintendo prioritizes kids/teens) and longer battery life. The things Nintendo users prioritize isn't just power. It's ease of use and novelty. Valve had to perform miracles to create a handheld with that performance for that price. Compromises had to be made on battery life but its more hardcore userbase can with ease adjust Deck performance to one's needs. Nintendo isn't gonna do that. They will absolutely dial back performance aggressively to hit their other goals mentioned already.
Woopah
Member
We already know that Nvidia is working on a new SoC for Nintendo. Their DLSS solution makes perfect sense for Nintendo to use.
UniformDeliverance
Member
I'm sure it will be more powerful. The difference though is Valve seems more willing to do incremental updates, so if a switch 2 does have a power advantage, I don't suspect that will last very long.. I mean look how long the Switch has been out currently? Essentially ancient in tech years.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
It will likely only be around the steamdeck in GPU performance, maybe slightly under or over.
People talking about Nintendo using 3nm are having a laugh.
Nintendo will use 6nm.
People talking about Nintendo using 3nm are having a laugh.
Nintendo will use 6nm.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Haha no.
That's the other thing. It's likely to use the same Samsung 8 nm that Ampere uses. That's what Orin uses too.
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Eddie-Griffin
Banned
No, Nintendo always likes to cut corners with otherwise straight hardware, and it may seem like potential on paper but it'll likely end up like the Switch 1 were you are limited to what you can do with it docked and then undocked will decline by default.
I don't see Nintendo putting in the expense to be notably better than the Steam Deck which would head toward the GPD/Aya territory when Nintendo wants to sell at a profit and has no interest in taking any loss. I don't think they will go higher than $299 again, at most they may do $399 if they are not able to drop the price of the current Switches but I think they will go for a $100 discount on current Switch and Oled and do $299 for the Switch 2 imo.
I don't see Nintendo putting in the expense to be notably better than the Steam Deck which would head toward the GPD/Aya territory when Nintendo wants to sell at a profit and has no interest in taking any loss. I don't think they will go higher than $299 again, at most they may do $399 if they are not able to drop the price of the current Switches but I think they will go for a $100 discount on current Switch and Oled and do $299 for the Switch 2 imo.
Secret of Evolution
Banned
If it has 4D I'd buy it.
That said if Nintendo could get NVidia to ensure it could do DLSS 2.0 it may run better, at least for the games that use the feature. I don't really care though as I don't bother playing Switch stuff on my Deck.
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Ol'Scratch
Member
*Peeks to see if they started counting flops yet...*
Woopah
Member
Given how Nintendo has done no price drops so far, I can't see them go to a $100 price drop with either models. Especially when they already gave the Lite as their entry model at $199.
OLED is selling very very well. The lowest the next Switch model will launch at is $349 (and it will probably be higher). I reck Switch 4k comes in at $399, while OLED drops to $299 and the regular model gets discontinued.
Topher
Identifies as young
asdasdasdbb
Member
2024 most likely.
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