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[Vieo]

Can somebody explain to me why dial-up modems won't get any faster than 56K?

 

[Tainty]

no





www.google.com

 

[raYne]

It wouldn't make any difference because modem speed is limited by the audio resolution of the phone line. The analog nature of a phone line prevents it from going beyond 33.6 in reality, as a result you won't even get an actual "56k" connection with a 56k modem.

 

[xexex]

because telephone lines cannot handle anything beyond about 40~47k, unless I am mistaken.

whatever the actual amount is, anything beyond 56K would be utterly pointless.

 

[xsarien]

It wouldn't make any difference because modem speed is limited by the audio resolution of the phone line. The analog nature of a phone line prevents it from going beyond 33.6 in reality, as a result you won't even get an actual "56k" connection with a 56k modem.

The actual limit is just under 56k.

 

[raYne]

The actual limit is just under 56k.

Oh yeah? Well, I stand corrected. But uh... the rest is right though.

 

[Vieo]

First of all, if you're gonna give me a link to google, at least tell me what I should type in. Is there a special section of google where if I type in a question, it'll give me a answer like a magic 8 ball?

Secondly...

It wouldn't make any difference because modem speed is limited by the audio resolution of the phone line. The analog nature of a phone line prevents it from going beyond 33.6 in reality, as a result you won't even get an actual "56k" connection with a 56k modem.

So what your saying is, even if they made a dial-up modem that could go much higher than 56K in speeds, the phonelines are what prevents them from utilizing that speed? Sorta like... having a really nice car on the outside but a really weak/old engine on the inside?

 

[raYne]

Correct.

 

[Vieo]

Correct.

I should of said like having a really FAST car but having tires made out of concrete.

Anyway, that sucks.

What about wireless technology? Is that faster and more reliable than 56K modems yet?

 

[Claus]

FCC regulations limit it to 53Kbps but, as stated before, the lines can only go around 50Kbps.

 

[Dan]

What about wireless technology? Is that faster and more reliable than 56K modems yet?

In general I'd say yes, but that's because home wireless technology is primarily built on Ethernet connections. Again, it comes down to the core infrastructure.

Basically, you can make shit look pretty, but it's still shit. You can have fancy high tech devices on either end of the connection, but if the medium that carries the signal is poor, the whole thing will be poor.

 

[raYne]

I should of said like having a really FAST car but having tires made out of concrete.

Well then you wouldn't have a fast car at all...

What about wireless technology? Is that faster and more reliable than 56K modems yet?

Wa? Wireless is really just a form of connection, you can't really compare "wireless" and a type of modem.

*edit*
Plus what Dan said.... :lol

 

[xexex]

slightly ot:

I want BPL (broadband over power lines) to become more prevalent. plug a computer with a powerline modem into every outlet in your house. same upload speed as download.

http://www.current.net/
http://www.current.net/WatchTheVideo/

 

[DDayton]

Innocent question time...

I have DSL. As a consumer, all I see is that I plug the standard phone line into a special modem, and then plug the modem into my PC. The DSL signal is being sent through the "standard" phone company phone lines, as far as I can tell. True, DSL isn't available everywhere, as phone companies do have to upgrade... but DSL comes from a "standard" phone line, right? So, really, modems DO hit speeds far above 56K, but only if the city is prepped for DSL and you're paying the company for it... right?

 

[Vieo]

Wait a minute. So you mean to tell me you can just plug your computer into ANY outlet and access the internet with no extra lines? That's crazy!

That sure as hell would be twiddling your thumbs while verizon sits on it's ass for years saying it's going to bring DSL to your neighborhood.

 

[Bregor]

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/dsl.htm

 

[raYne]

DSL uses the extra wires (copper) already present in the normal phone line to send the DSL signal. Basically, the wiring enables it to send digital signals (your DSL connection) rather than analog (normal phone line).

 

[DDayton]

All I'm saying is that it seems like DSL modems could be seen as the next step in "standard dial up", could they not? Computer communications via standard phone lines... yes, the underlying technology is different from that in standard audio-based 56k communications, but the modem isn't being restricted by the phone lines.

I seem to remember something about a trial run of dirt-cheap wireless broadband.

 

[robochimp]

First of all, if you're gonna give me a link to google, at least tell me what I should type in. Is there a special section of google where if I type in a question, it'll give me a answer like a magic 8 ball?

Have you ever used google before?

 

[ced]

That sure as hell would be twiddling your thumbs while verizon sits on it's ass for years saying it's going to bring DSL to your neighborhood.

I feel your pain man. Sprint has done this with me for 3 years, Im still 1000 feet short they say. I can get idsl though, for 150$ a month, what a bunch of bullshit.

Oh this is the capitol city of florida too, and not in the boonies or anything.

 

[The Shadow]

Basically the limit is due to the modem having to make a voice telephone call and then communicating over the audible channel to another computer(the dial-up "hiss"), whereas a DSL line doesn't go through a vocal dial up. It's more of a direct digital line between two DSL modems without having to go through the traditional telephone service.

 

[Phoenix]

You have a lot of different 'bands' of frequencies inside of a pair that goes to your telco. Only part of this is set for voice traffic. Dial up modems communicate on these bands. DSL and some of their more 'interesting' technologies coming down the pipe use other bands on the copper pair to transmit more data. There is more bandwidth available in the phone line itself - there just isn't any more available in the voice frequency where dial-up modems operate. Most phone lines in modern homes are Cat5 or Cat5e (in some cases) and that has more bandwidth than anyone is using at this point (it supports gigabit ethernet for example).

So while yes your phone line/wiring is capable of more, the nature of 'dial up' itself prevents you from using it in any manner.

 

[Hitokage]

IIRC, Cat5 is 10mbps, Cat5e for 100mbps, and Cat6 for gigabit ethernet... and phone lines only have 2 copper wires(4 if you have two seperate phone lines), cat5 and such have 8.

 

[impirius]

You can only fit so many bits in your phone lines... they're really skinny

That's why modem speeds are measured in bits instead of bytes, bits are smaller and can fit in the wires more easily

That's what my sources at SEGA tell me

 

[Phoenix]

IIRC, Cat5 is 10mbps, Cat5e for 100mbps, and Cat6 for gigabit ethernet... and phone lines only have 2 copper wires(4 if you have two seperate phone lines), cat5 and such have 8.

Cat5e supports gigabit ethernet. If you have a modern build house with structured wiring everything is Cat5 (at least) coming to the same trunk in the basement, utility room, etc. I have both structured wiring and ethernet cabling in my house at the moment and when I build my next house it will have Cat6 in it.

Category 5 cable, commonly known as Cat 5, is an unshielded twisted pair type cable designed for high signal integrity. The actual standard defines specific electrical properties of the wire, but it is most commonly known as being rated for its Ethernet capability of 100 Mbit/s. Its specific standard designation is EIA/TIA-568. Cat 5 cable typically has three twists per inch of each twisted pair of 24 gauge copper wires within the cable. Another important characteristic is that the wires are insulated with a plastic (FEP) that has low dispersion, that is, the dielectric constant of the plastic does not depend greatly on frequency. Special attention also has to be paid to minimizing impedance mismatches at connection points.

It is often used in structured cabling for computer networks such as fast Ethernet, although it is often used to carry many other signals such as basic voice services, token ring, and ATM (at up to 155 Mbits/s, over short distances).

...

Cat 5e cable is an enhanced version of Cat 5 for use with 1000 Base-T networks, or for long-distance 100 Base-T links (350 m, compared with 100 m for Cat5). It must meet the EIA/TIA 568A-5 specification.

 

[Diablos]

slightly ot:

I want BPL (broadband over power lines) to become more prevalent. plug a computer with a powerline modem into every outlet in your house. same upload speed as download.

http://www.current.net/
http://www.current.net/WatchTheVideo/

Hope you like being spied on by the government, it's much easier for them to do so when you have BPL. Stop downloading those mp3's!

 

[luxsol]

Oh this is the capitol city of florida too, and not in the boonies or anything.

Pfft, like that matters. The capital of CA is the boonies. =P

 

[alejob]

Gigabit ethernet can use regular cat5 cable also. Edit:Checked that, its 5e.

I think 10BaseT can you use cat3 and up. Though you probably wont find cat3 cable anywhere.

 

[alejob]

10 Gigabit Ethernet uses fiberoptics.

40GBEthernet is the next step.

 

[Phoenix]

Hope you like being spied on by the government, it's much easier for them to do so when you have BPL. Stop downloading those mp3's!

If you don't think they can tap you over DSL or Cable modem you are dellusional.

 

[Ghost of Bill Gates]

Can somebody explain to me why dial-up modems won't get any faster than 56K?

Easily,

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) limits legal speed on the telephone network to 53Kbps, thus, you should not expect to achieve a faster connect rate than 53Kbps.

 

[Diablos]

If you don't think they can tap you over DSL or Cable modem you are dellusional.

I never said that, sir. I'm just saying that based on what I've read, it is much easier to do so with BPL.

 

[Catalyst]

Easily,

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) limits legal speed on the telephone network to 53Kbps, thus, you should not expect to achieve a faster connect rate than 53Kbps.

What I don't get is that they just don't raise the speed. Are there any particular reasons?

And that BPL thing says it's available in Cincinatti, Ohio, and is spreading. But it's only cheap as cable. I could probably get a 3Mbps line for $40 by itself here too. Then you have the packages with digital cable television with packages of HBO or whatnot for $75 or so. Cable's the better deal, especially with Charter Communications.

 

[Seth C]

What I don't get is that they just don't raise the speed. Are there any particular reasons?

And that BPL thing says it's available in Cincinatti, Ohio, and is spreading. But it's only cheap as cable. I could probably get a 3Mbps line for $40 by itself here too. Then you have the packages with digital cable television with packages of HBO or whatnot for $75 or so. Cable's the better deal, especially with Charter Communications.

As far as I know, pushing more than that could cause the lines to degrade.

DSL can run across the same phone lines because it is a digital signal (not analog) and at a much higher frequency, so it doesn't interfere with voice communications.

 

[Phoenix]

I never said that, sir. I'm just saying that based on what I've read, it is much easier to do so with BPL.

Its easier for a hacker to invade your home network that way, but its no easier or harder for the government to tap your lines regardless of what technology you use. All they need is a court order and they can monitor any communications leaving or entering your home with relative ease.

 

[gblues]

slightly ot:

I want BPL (broadband over power lines) to become more prevalent. plug a computer with a powerline modem into every outlet in your house. same upload speed as download.

http://www.current.net/
http://www.current.net/WatchTheVideo/

BPL is going to be stillborn because it screws up emergency communications.

Nathan

 

[Phoenix]

BPL is going to be stillborn because it screws up emergency communications.

Nathan

Strange that the FCC would approve a technology for use that would go against its number one rule which prohibits technologies from interfering with each other.