Xbox keep following Nintendo. They switched to PPC because Nintendo was using PPC cores for two console generations. Now they are switching to ARM, which Nintendo have been using from the original Gameboy right up to the Switch 2.
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Qualcomm Unveils Snapdragon X Elite CPU PC Benchmarks: Oryon Core Faster & Efficient Than Intel 13th Gen & Apple M2 Max, GPU Faster Than AMD RDNA 3
- Thread starter tusharngf
- Start date
cartman414
Member
That wasn't my point.
My point was that ARM by itself has yet, demonstrably at least, to boast a performance ceiling rivaling that of x86.
cartman414
Member
GBA was the first to use an ARM chip.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
They've also released bench results for their new Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 SoC and it looks like it trumps the new A17 Pro from Apple in both GPU perf and multicore CPU tests. They're still behind in singlethreaded perf (for now) but that might change when they release the new Nuvia cores sometime next year.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Apple is doing some amazing work with their ARM cores and their GPU’s (I cannot wait to see how they implemented RT in detail on top of their PowerVR GPU based TBDR design… PowerVR/IMG Tech had some advanced RT tech that has not had time to shine yet, some features beyond what nVIDIA has at the moment too, but they had nobody big implementing it… until now I guess).
Still, their best designs are still nowhere near the best AMD or Intel can produce performance wise, even without going to crazy power consumption levels. We will see with the M3 and M3 Pro/Max/Ultra designs soon (they are in 3nm processes btw, so that should be taken in consideration vs competition on 5nm).
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
We will see outside of synthetic benchmarks (this is where Apple shines: their OS and frameworks are designed for their HW and the apps devs make leverage those frameworks) and even in those they do not outshine Apple, they are ahead in some a bit, match them in some, and lose to them in others. I think the big win is that they are on 4nm vs Apple on 3nm, but I might be wrong.
Brain drain at Apple is real though…
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Yk it's crazy to see ARM's evolution like that. From running what is essentially slower NES games to running Xbox 360 tier games at higher frames and res than the original consoles
So basically they’re following Apple’s lead in being selective with charts and benchmarks?
Hmm. If a SD chipset’s GPU could hit 1050Ti tier when clocked high and (I presume) actively cooled, it’s certainly worth getting some hopes high for an Nvidia designed GPU in the next Switch console.
Kazekage1981
Member
Is it confirmed that the latest chips from Qualcomm run on the latest Arm V9.2A microarchitecture? I dont know if Apple's A17 chip does?!
Kazekage1981
Member
Will x86 processors have a NPU with generative AI?
A good video that explains the new processor
A good video that explains the new processor
LordOfChaos
Member
Yes, the lastest AMD generation and Intel starting with Meteor Lake in December have NPUs
Kazekage1981
Member
If Wifi7 can go up to 46 Gigabits per second, does that mean your ISP is going to provide 46 Gigabits per second data speeds? What is the fastest ISP provider right now currently in United States?
LordOfChaos
Member
There's no real relation, wifi speed also gets quickly cut down with a number of factors like distance, devices, other interference etc. Most people aren't on connections faster than even 1gbps, most of the benefit is within the network and integrity and distance
Google Fiber will offer 20gbps
Google Fiber to offer residential 20 Gig with Wi-Fi 7 by end of 2023
Google Fiber previously said that it wanted to eventually offer 100 Gig internet, and it will soon have residential 20 Gig + Wi-Fi 7...
9to5google.com
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
He said console space.
LordOfChaos
Member
First benchmarks in the wild, quite good. MT is more like M2 Max than Pro, ST beats the line so far. I wonder if M3 launched today can consistently be a bit over 3000 single core. Let's see pricing and average power use during loads and idle.
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winjer
Gold Member
Some people don't know what real world performance means.
Geekbench is a synthetic benchmark, a good one, but not a real world program.
Let's wait and see how it performs in reality.
Papa_Wisdom
Member
I just want to know how this will improve my “e1ite HaX0r Sk1llz”
LordOfChaos
Member
Much more in depth here
So it seems like multicore is like the M2 Max, but the GPU is more like M2 base, a bit ahead of it so maybe more like M3 from today. Depending on average and idle power use that could well be a fine use of die size for most people.
So it seems like multicore is like the M2 Max, but the GPU is more like M2 base, a bit ahead of it so maybe more like M3 from today. Depending on average and idle power use that could well be a fine use of die size for most people.
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SportsFan581
Member
The quality of the X86 emulation is a major factor in whether or not ARM ever takes over the desktop space. Needs to be seamless and performative, to the point that the end-user doesn't even realize it is happening.
LordOfChaos
Member
Control has to be through x86 emulation right? Getting close to the 7840HS running it native is not a bad indication of emulation performance
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Solarstrike
Member
XBox 360/XB1SX Portable confirmed
LordOfChaos
Member
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/FP3BMIMPX5PUZBJ7RT7OWS4AJ4.jpg)
Exclusive: Nvidia to make Arm-based PC chips in major new challenge to Intel
Nvidia dominates the market for AI computing chips. Now it is coming after Intel’s longtime stronghold.
www.reuters.com
The 2025 party is going to be WILD. From the old duopoly to Nvidia, Qualcomm, AMD, and Apple all throwing down in the ARM space. Hopefully Intel has the memo too and is just downplaying ARM until theirs is ready like a company does.
GymWolf
Gold Member
My umm...arm right nowExclusive: Nvidia to make Arm-based PC chips in major new challenge to Intel
Nvidia dominates the market for AI computing chips. Now it is coming after Intel’s longtime stronghold.
The 2025 party is going to be WILD. From the old duopoly to Nvidia, Qualcomm, AMD, and Apple all throwing down in the ARM space. Hopefully Intel has the memo too and is just downplaying ARM until theirs is ready like a company does.
Kazekage1981
Member
Designing these processors to emulate x86 is not sustainable in the long run. Microsoft will most likely make an updated SDK (Project Voltera) using the snapdragon elite processor, but software developers can utilize the current Project Voltera SDK kit to get the groundwork started at least for apps. If they do that on an old Qualcomm processor, the elite will run it blazing fast.
With Build 2024, i hope MSFT will develop updated tools and API's-and even utilize generative AI to help coders make native and optimized code for both x86 and ARM in the easiest to way possible. They have already incorporated Xamarin into visual studio (one base code for windows, android, and iOS), so this shouldn't be that hard.
They also need to optimize pen support for stand alone windows tablets/laptops/all in one PC's utilizing GPU/NPU (since its getting beefier now instead of those shitty iGPU's from intel), with low latency/lag and close to 1:1 input/touch to response.
With Build 2024, i hope MSFT will develop updated tools and API's-and even utilize generative AI to help coders make native and optimized code for both x86 and ARM in the easiest to way possible. They have already incorporated Xamarin into visual studio (one base code for windows, android, and iOS), so this shouldn't be that hard.
They also need to optimize pen support for stand alone windows tablets/laptops/all in one PC's utilizing GPU/NPU (since its getting beefier now instead of those shitty iGPU's from intel), with low latency/lag and close to 1:1 input/touch to response.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
it is what is needed tho as many devs of older games cannot or will not port their games to ARM. we need emulation for those obscure titles
Kazekage1981
Member
i think you will run into a similar situation where Microsoft is having the hardest time persuading software developers who make apps for Android and iOS to make native apps to Windows store (that's where you run into shit like this):
The SDK with generative AI in assisting developers make Windows x86 to Windows ARM and Android+iOS to Windows x86 and Windows ARM is the key. I think MSFT will have to spoon feed developers
mitchman
Gold Member
Nvidia Shield (Pro) is already a console of sorts, and it's all Nvidia.
GymWolf
Gold Member
"Of sorts" it the key word here.
Not a fan of streaming gaming.
I was talking about a more traditional home console.
mitchman
Gold Member
You can play many games locally on it.
systemr123
Banned
Why they omit the M2 Pro? Would be really interesting to see where that ends up.Control has to be through x86 emulation right? Getting close to the 7840HS running it native is not a bad indication of emulation performance
Tams
Gold Member
You do know that Qualcomm are just as scummy a company, right?
Even other megacorporations don't like working with them. Why do you think Samsung keep plugging away at Exynos?
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LordOfChaos
Member
Nanoreview has some scores for the M3 family, not sure if they're real but they're not out of line
M3: 3027 and 11883
M3 Pro: 3087 and 14982
M3 Max: 3187 and 21890
That would make the M3 Pro already tie the mid next year X Elite on the CPU end and with a much better GPU, but the question is what priced laptops the X Elite end up in. Does it bring M3 Pro CPU perf to much cheaper systems? Average load power and idle power are still questions too
M3: 3027 and 11883
M3 Pro: 3087 and 14982
M3 Max: 3187 and 21890
That would make the M3 Pro already tie the mid next year X Elite on the CPU end and with a much better GPU, but the question is what priced laptops the X Elite end up in. Does it bring M3 Pro CPU perf to much cheaper systems? Average load power and idle power are still questions too
Neo_GAF
Banned
guess fucking why: there is no money to make on apple silicon. most of the games do not work, the rosetta emulation doesnt work and most people on a mac dont care about gaming.
i have three friends who code(on mac) and all of them play games on a beefy rig or consoles.
one person tried shadow pc on their mac, was satisfied and then the CS fucked them over which is why they stopped caring about it in the end.
would love to see progress here, but i dont see apple doing anything here. when was the last time apple did any shit for gaming on a mac?
90s?
Kazekage1981
Member
AMD, NVIDIA in particular are not going to let make ARM based CPU/NPU/GPU's to run a stuttery/janky windows 11/12 ARM OS along with x86 games to run slow/laggy/low res through emulation. MSFT along with CPU/GPU manufacturers will have to coordinate together to make it NATIVE and run it smooth as silk. Qualcomm will simply benefit off of this. If it were not for qualcomm i dont thik we would even have windows on arm (starting with windows RT).
Kazekage1981
Member
The future of chip making is pretty exciting:
1) Intel using glass substrate instead of organic substrate (possible for other chip manufacturers)
2) New semiconductor material Rhenium, Selenium, Chlorine speeds up the flow of electrons 100-1000x faster:
New Scientist Article on Semiconductors
3) Nanoimprint Lithography possible replacing EUV lithography
4) Further reduction and shrinkage on nodes (0.2nm etc):
5) GAAFET replacing FINFET (?!)
"With GAAFET transistors still in the testing phase, we cannot declare final performance or efficiency improvements. Samsung estimates that at the same lithographic process of 3nm, the figures are 50% power savings, 30% performance improvement, and 45% area reduction."
6) More efficient applied materials process
1) Intel using glass substrate instead of organic substrate (possible for other chip manufacturers)
2) New semiconductor material Rhenium, Selenium, Chlorine speeds up the flow of electrons 100-1000x faster:
New Scientist Article on Semiconductors
3) Nanoimprint Lithography possible replacing EUV lithography
4) Further reduction and shrinkage on nodes (0.2nm etc):
5) GAAFET replacing FINFET (?!)
"With GAAFET transistors still in the testing phase, we cannot declare final performance or efficiency improvements. Samsung estimates that at the same lithographic process of 3nm, the figures are 50% power savings, 30% performance improvement, and 45% area reduction."
6) More efficient applied materials process
Kazekage1981
Member
Will future all-in one PC's and tablet/laptop PC's finally improve Webcams? I am so sick of shitty webcams. Usually the built in cameras are NOT integrated with the motherboard (like how iphones and androids phones are), it connects via shitty old USB, but perhaps USB 4.0 (inside the laptop connected to the motherboard) you can finally get 4K DSLR type video and photos?
The current best webcam is Opal C1 but it connects externally not built in.
The current best webcam is Opal C1 but it connects externally not built in.
Kazekage1981
Member
tusharngf
Member
Snapdragon X Elite 12-Core CPU Benchmarks Leak Out: On Par With Current-Gen AMD & Intel Chips
The top Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite CPU will come in 12-core configurations with a total of 8 high-performance and 4 efficiency-optimized cores based on TSMC's 4nm process node. The clock speeds for the chip will be set at 4.3 GHz across 1-2 cores and 3.8 GHz for all-core while adopting a large 42 MB cache. The chip was leaked out earlier in Geekbench 6 where it showed competitive performance but the latest results give us a look at what we can expect from the final silicon that is heading out around the mid of 2024.
Snapdragon X Elite 12-Core CPU Benchmarks Leak Out: On Par With Current-Gen AMD & Intel Chips
Benchmarks of Qualcomm's Snapdragon X Elite CPU have leaked out in its 12-core variation which is on par with modern AMD & Intel chips.
wccftech.com
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Imtjnotu
Member
the wild thing about this is it runs mostly at 7w. with highs up to 15w.Snapdragon X Elite 12-Core CPU Benchmarks Leak Out: On Par With Current-Gen AMD & Intel Chips
The top Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite CPU will come in 12-core configurations with a total of 8 high-performance and 4 efficiency-optimized cores based on TSMC's 4nm process node. The clock speeds for the chip will be set at 4.3 GHz across 1-2 cores and 3.8 GHz for all-core while adopting a large 42 MB cache. The chip was leaked out earlier in Geekbench 6 where it showed competitive performance but the latest results give us a look at what we can expect from the final silicon that is heading out around the mid of 2024.
Snapdragon X Elite 12-Core CPU Benchmarks Leak Out: On Par With Current-Gen AMD & Intel Chips
Benchmarks of Qualcomm's Snapdragon X Elite CPU have leaked out in its 12-core variation which is on par with modern AMD & Intel chips.
QUALCOMM has always had amazing Tops also so ai accelerated tasks are going to fly in this machine with passive cooling.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Yeah, imagine such chips in handhelds. Really wish Windows had a proper ARM emulator later. Would be a huge boom for handhelds.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What does the current AMD chips run at?
Tams
Gold Member
15W to 35W or 45W depending on the bios settings.
Below 15W, they don't really any noticeable increase in efficiency (aka you get less performance for less power used).
The one in the Steam Deck is down around 10-12W, but it's also Zen 2, not Zen 3.
magnumpy
Member
man Intel has seriously fallen off. and with software emulation, x86 isn't really a reason to pick architectures. and without x86, Intel is less and less attractive. I hear their hardware foundry technology, specifically chip packaging is leading edge, but this looks very bad for them. even AMD CPUs are taking them to the cleaners, with Intel only winning due to clock speed, which has additional heat and power consumption downsides 
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's trash but slowly getting better I guess
Fake
Member
As garbage as UWP.
It’s actually quite good, just held back significantly by the underpowered 2019 era mobile phone Snapdragons they’ve been using in the past. This should see a major leap forward when the X elite chips land.