Can we please discuss this

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Orayn said:
Dunk, you're actually pretty good about this. My comment was more directed at people who do attempt to use the phrase as a get out of awkward situations free card.

That said, you're still dead wring about lots of other stuff, but that's not what this particular post is about.
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That's cool. We can agree to disagree.

I have to stand by my views. Can't help it
 
I bet that is the first carhartt jacket that dude has worn in his entire life. And he didn't even pay for it himself.
 
Dunk#7 said:
The burden of proof is currently with the scientific community on that one
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haha oh boy

Anyway, I'll just leave this piece here:

So let’s look at the state of true scientific inquiry into how homosexuality presents itself in human beings.

First, twin studies. Recent studies have found that when one identical twin is gay, there is a 52 percent chance the other is also gay; if one fraternal twin is gay, the probability the other twin is gay drops to 22 percent; and if one separate-birth sibling is gay, there is only a 6 percent to 10 percent chance another sibling will be gay. This indicates both heritability and that something environmental (probably hormone levels in utero) is at play. This is reinforced by the fact that more recent studies have indicated that when identical twins share an amniotic sack, they nearly always have the same orientation, gay or straight.

Look also at studies on fraternal birth order. Ray Blanchard and colleagues discovered accidentally that each time a woman gives birth to a son, the chance that the boy will be gay increases by about 30 percent. Older sisters do not affect the probability, only older brothers. Blanchard argues that this indicates an immunoresponse by the mother to the presence of a male child.

There are also studies that have shown differences in finger length between heterosexuals and homosexuals. The results of these studies have been verified and reproduced.

Sexuality is about as much a “choice” as handedness is.

As recently as the last century, teachers would tie a child’s left hand in a vain attempt to make them right-handed. While a left-handed person can force himself to write right-handed, just as a gay person can force himself to live a heterosexual lifestyle, that doesn’t make the leftie a rightie or the gay man straight. Some people (the ambidextrous or the bisexual) would find it relatively easy to move from one behavior to the other, but for most of us, changing our sexuality would be as impossible as learning to write as precisely or throw a ball as accurately with our non-dominant hand as with our dominant hand.

Science doesn’t have “proof” as to what causes left-handedness, either. Like sexuality, it is probably a combination of genetics and in utero environmental factors, reinforced in early childhood by societal norms. But it’s clear that both are most likely fixed at birth.

Busey has done the readers of the Redding Record Searchlight a great disservice by presenting his misguided opinions as being representative of the scientific community at large.

Sexuality is not strictly a genetic trait, like skin color or eye color, but it is certainly not a conscious choice people make. Even if it were, that’s still no reason to deny marriage equality to the more than 1 million gay people living in California. Religion is a choice, and laws prevent discrimination on that basis.
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The problem is actually worse for people like Dunk. Because they claim to be "tolerant" while being openly hostile to the very idea of how people cannot choose their sexuality. In this way, it's an even more stubborn and immovable idea than anything since they believe it's ok to be complacent about the subject as long as they are pretending to be nice to homosexuals to their face.

What kind of disgusting, fake human being acts that way?

That's the thing with Christians: they LOVE to use Christ as a shield for everything, but when it comes right down to it the Bible is just an elaborate justification for their ignorant, bigoted belief systems.

Dunk#7 said:
I have to stand by my views. Can't help it
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HAHAHA. Holy shit, do you not see the irony here?

You actually CAN CHOOSE to believe in something that is wrong or not, quite UNLIKE how people choose their sexual orientation. If you ever sat around and made a determinate choice to be 'straight', I'd like to know when I missed that decision day. I was always straight; gays are always gay.
 
Joe Shlabotnik said:
He was the frontrunner for the Republican nomination a month or two ago until we learned he had issues thinking in public. (He had embarrassing debate performances.)

As you can see, he's kind of grasping at straws right now.
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I see. Well, I'm not massively into politics. People should be able to do what they want in my opinion, regardless of race, gender or creed.

Lets hope this guy just goes away quickly.
 
Dunk#7 said:
That's cool. We can agree to disagree.

I have to stand by my views. Can't help it
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Well, you can, but in the interest of not turning this thread into a shitstorm I won't press the issue. ;)

EDIT: I may have to reconsider this if shit gets a-stormin' anyway.
 
wolfmat said:
I'm with you on that one; I'm not gay and did not choose it. Women are insane most of the time, but I fall in love with them still.
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You don't have to make a choice to do the default.

You only have to make a choice to act outside of the norm.

That is like referring to somebody that walks with a "gangsta limp" and telling them I didn't chose to walk normal so you must not have chosen to walk that way either.
 
krypt0nian said:
And people do not choose to be gay. Stop saying it.
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I don't believe that to be true for everyone.

That is a blanket statement and those are never true. But even so, why do gay people insist on this as if they need an uncontrollable excuse to be gay. "oops it's ok for me to be gay because I was born this way, can't help it, but if I wasn't I'd rather be straight because it's better".
 
Never mind the fact that people choose to subscribe to whatever religious babble they like, but that's protected at a base level.

But they love to call gays "abominations" and use their bible to openly discriminate against us. And these are the followers of Christ.

Perfect.


Dark Octave said:
I don't believe that to be true for everyone.

That is a blanket statement and those are never true. But even so, why do gay people insist on this as if they need an uncontrollable excuse to be gay. "oops it's ok for me to be gay because I was born this way, can't help it, but if I wasn't I'd rather be straight because it's better".
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I don't say it like that. I was correcting an incorrect statement.

I don't need anyone's approval, and I sure as fuck don't want to be straight.

People can choose to have gay sex but that doesn't make them gay. It's far deeper than just acting on a sexual urge.
 
Dark Octave said:
I don't believebthat to be true for everyone.

That is a blanket statement and those are never true. But even so, why do gay people insist on this as if they need an uncontrollable excuse to be gay. "oops it's ok for me to be gay because I was born this way, can't help it, but if I wasn't I'd rather be straight because it's better".
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holy.


fucking.



shit.
 
Some real awful people getting exposed in this thread.
 
Dark Octave said:
I don't believe that to be true for everyone.

That is a blanket statement and those are never true. But even so, why do gay people insist on this as if they need an uncontrollable excuse to be gay. "oops it's ok for me to be gay because I was born this way, can't help it, but if I wasn't I'd rather be straight because it's better".
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This is a real post on the internet. Wow.
 
Dunk#7 said:
You don't have to make a choice to do the default.

You only have to make a choice to act outside of the norm.

That is like referring to somebody that walks with a "gangsta limp" and telling them I didn't chose to walk normal so you must not have chosen to walk that way either.
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Hey, if I could choose, I'd probably be gay. Why not? I don't give a shit about gender preference per se, it's just that I can't choose this at all.
 
Dark Octave said:
I don't believe that to be true for everyone.

That is a blanket statement and those are never true. But even so, why do gay people insist on this as if they need an uncontrollable excuse to be gay. "oops it's ok for me to be gay because I was born this way, can't help it, but if I wasn't I'd rather be straight because it's better".
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If you had to venture a guess, approximately what percentage of gay people are just doing it to be trendy?
 
Amir0x said:
holy.


fucking.



shit.
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I had to read it three times. Fucking insanity.

Dunk#7 said:
You don't have to make a choice to do the default.

You only have to make a choice to act outside of the norm.

That is like referring to somebody that walks with a "gangsta limp" and telling them I didn't chose to walk normal so you must not have chosen to walk that way either.
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You are so ignorant.
 
Dark Octave said:
Omg calm down.
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sorry, statements of such profound ignorance and stupidity require responses of similarly appropriate shock.

Only a fucking enlarged foreheaded cave dweller would say that shit in the 21st century. But I forgot that's essentially what 90% of religious folk are.
 
Orayn said:
If you had to venture a guess, approximately what percentage of gay people are just doing it to be trendy?
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Who said anything about being trendy. I have friends who were married in straight relationships, got diverced and married gay. Are they not gay?

I really hate when you guys get all bent up like this. Listen to what I'm saying, not what you want to hear.
 
wolfmat said:
Hey, if I could choose, I'd probably be gay. Why not? I don't give a shit about gender preference per se, it's just that I can't choose this at all.
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I would have to say it is a choice combined with life experiences (memes)

Some are pushed towards that choice by their childhood or other events IMO
 
and another thing. And this is REALLY important.

Let's say tomorrow we found out definitively that being gay WAS a choice. That every red blooded homosexual just decided one day to drop his pants and submit to the dildo test, and decided "hey, I like this." Let's just say that's the case. It's factually not, but let's go with that.




Where the fuck in this process does this then become wrong? It's that individuals CHOICE to do something with an equally consented adult. If they both agree they want to shove metal rods up each others ass, why the fuck do you care? How is this morally corrupting children what these two do in the privacy of their bedroom? How is this emasculating and endangering their fellow soldiers on the battlefield? How is this even a fucking part of the equation if these same people decide they love each other and want a formal marriage contract?


ANSWER: IT DOESN'T. You're ascribing a moral value to the proposition merely because you were raised on a holy book written by people who believed the Earth was the center of the universe, who believed that sacrificing animals would please a evil and restless God and which got virtually every fact of science and history wrong in the process. We should take their moral propositions at face value why exactly?
 
Dark Octave said:
I don't believe that to be true for everyone.

That is a blanket statement and those are never true. But even so, why do gay people insist on this as if they need an uncontrollable excuse to be gay. "oops it's ok for me to be gay because I was born this way, can't help it, but if I wasn't I'd rather be straight because it's better".
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What the fuck are you even saying!?
 
Dunk#7 said:
You don't have to make a choice to do the default.

You only have to make a choice to act outside of the norm.

That is like referring to somebody that walks with a "gangsta limp" and telling them I didn't chose to walk normal so you must not have chosen to walk that way either.
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Time out: Did you just compare attraction (which we don't have any control over) with a "gangsta limp?" Bravo sir. You actually had me going there. You are the master.

Rockclap.gif
 
Dark Octave said:
Who said anything about being trendy. I have friends who were married in straight relationships, got diverced and married gay. Are they not gay?

I really hate when you guys get all bent up like this. Listen to what I'm saying, not what you want to hear.
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The could be gay or bi. I know people who dated girls and then eventually came to the realization that they were gay or bi.
 
Dark Octave said:
Who said anything about being trendy. I have friends who were married in straight relationships, got diverced and married gay. Are they not gay?

I really hate when you guys get all bent up like this. Listen to what I'm saying, not what you want to hear.
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I cannot believe you are using this as an example.

People enter into straight relationships due to societal pressures. Then some cannot take it anymore due to withholding their true selves for years and end it. Many many others just fuck around on their wives because they were never straight and were "forced" into straight marriages by bigoted society.

They were always gay. They didn't choose to be so.

I dated girls all through high school because that's how I fit in. I was never straight.

That I had to explain that to you should suggest you gain more knowledge before ever posting on this topic again. There are many books out there so as not to look so misinformed.
 
I always see comments about how absurd it is that people have certain views in "2011" or in the "21st century", but the idea that bigotry diminishes in an evolutionary progression is misguided. If anything, it goes up and down in waves and the bigotry just moves and gets focused on different things.
 
Dunk#7 said:
I would have to say it is a choice combined with life experiences (memes)

Some are pushed towards that choice by their childhood or other events IMO
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So what you're telling me is that I'm not capable of choice, but others are? But the others also report that they had no choice in this.

Who are these elusive dudes that can pick at will who they want to make out with? Noone's ever met 'em. What are you, Ancient Aliens guy?
 
It's okay guys, I came prepared.

FImwp.jpg


teruterubozu said:
I always see comments about how absurd it is that people have certain views in "2011" or in the "21st century", but the idea that bigotry diminishes in an evolutionary progression is misguided. If anything, it goes up and down in waves and the bigotry just moves and gets focused on different things.
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That's why we must drive it onto the most precarious, indefensible positions and wait for it to do itself in.
 
wolfmat said:
So what you're telling me is that I'm not capable of choice, but others are? But the others also report that they had no choice in this.

Who are these elusive dudes that can pick at will who they want to make out with? Noone's ever met 'em. What are you, Ancient Aliens guy?
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Really not being flippant here....isn't this what bisexuals do, as people attracted to both sexes?
 
Amir0x said:
and another thing. And this is REALLY important.

Let's say tomorrow we found out definitively that being gay WAS a choice. That every red blooded homosexual just decided one day to drop his pants and submit to the dildo test, and decided "hey, I like this." Let's just say that's the case. It's factually not, but let's go with that.




Where the fuck in this process does this then become wrong? It's that individuals CHOICE to do something with an equally consented adult. If they both agree they want to shove metal rods up each others ass, why the fuck do you care? How is this morally corrupting children what these two do in the privacy of their bedroom? How is this emasculating and endangering their fellow soldiers on the battlefield? How is this even a fucking part of the equation if these same people decide they love each other and want a formal marriage contract?


ANSWER: IT DOESN'T. You're ascribing a moral value to the proposition merely because you were raised on a holy book written by people who believed the Earth was the center of the universe, who believed that sacrificing animals would please a evil and restless God and which got virtually every fact of science and history wrong in the process. We should take their moral propositions at face value why exactly?
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You just captured my thoughts from my first post.

Notice I was not agreeing with Perry.


Dunk#7 said:
It is possible as a Christian to love and tolerate everybody without claiming homosexuality is ok. The Bible teaches you should love everybody and not judge others.

If I feel homosexuality is a sin as it claims in the Bible then that is not in any way judging others or not tolerating them. That would be like saying because I feel like stealing is a sin then I am judging people who steal.

I feel that it is wrong just as many things everybody does are wrong (including me). Everybody sins on a daily basis and are not worthy of the grace we are offered.

For the record I am against what Perry said in this clip as we should not discriminate against those that choose a homosexual lifestyle. It does not harm society at large and they should have all of the same rights as others do.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
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wolfmat said:
So what you're telling me is that I'm not capable of choice, but others are? But the others also report that they had no choice in this.

Who are these elusive dudes that can pick at will who they want to make out with? Noone's ever met 'em. What are you, Ancient Aliens guy?
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He's either willfully ignorant or has been indoctrinated for so long it's the same result. No one is this boorish without either effort, or guidance.

elrechazao said:
Really not being flippant here....isn't this what bisexuals do, as people attracted to both sexes?
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That is their orientation. They are wired to be attracted to both sexes. They aren't choosing to be straight then choosing to be gay.

I'm certain you see the difference.
 
wolfmat said:
So what you're telling me is that I'm not capable of choice, but others are? But the others also report that they had no choice in this.

Who are these elusive dudes that can pick at will who they want to make out with? Noone's ever met 'em. What are you, Ancient Aliens guy?
Click to expand...

I am not saying some are incapable of making the choice.

I am simply saying some are more likely and some are less likely based on memes.
 
elrechazao said:
Really not being flippant here....isn't this what bisexuals do, as people attracted to both sexes?
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I don't pick one or the other (unless it's a monogamous relationship, of course). I'm just attracted to both. It sounds silly, but I think it's kind of an important distinction, at least for me. I know some people that feel like they tend to be more attracted to one or the other on any given day, and I personally lean more towards guys, but I'm never *not* attracted to either gender.
 
elrechazao said:
Really not being flippant here....isn't this what bisexuals do, as people attracted to both sexes?
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They're pretty rare though, aren't they? And my guess is that they also don't have a choice in this, they really ARE attracted to both sexes out of wiring as opposed to out of daily mood or something like that.
 
krypt0nian said:
He's either willfully ignorant or has been indoctrinated for so long it's the same result. No one is this boorish without either effort, or guidance.



That is there orientation. They are wired to be attracted to both sexes. They aren't choosing to be straight then choosing to be gay.

I'm certain you see the difference.
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I am certain I do as well, but that's not what I was replying to.
 
Dunk#7 said:
You just captured my thoughts from my first post.

Notice I was not agreeing with Perry.
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So, let me get this straight. Because based on your comments in this topic it seems you're basically trying to extremely stretch the definition of me 'capturing your thoughts.'

You agree that

1. Being gay is not immoral whatsoever
2. Being gay, whether a choice or not, is not in the realm of morality whatsoever.
3. That being gay is not a choice in any event, so it's moot.

Because based on all your comments so far, the only thing we'd probably agree on is that it's wrong to discriminate against any group of people. But you're doing it with gritted teeth and pretend respect, because it seems to me you do believe in a certain absurd dogma that demands you take this whole subject in another light
 
Amir0x said:
So, let me get this straight. Because based on your comments in this topic it seems you're basically trying to extremely stretch the definition of me 'capturing your thoughts.'

You agree that

1. Being gay is not immoral whatsoever
2. Being gay, whether a choice or not, is not in the realm of morality whatsoever.
3. That being gay is not a choice in any event, so it's moot.

Because based on all your comments so far, the only thing we'd probably agree on is that it's wrong to discriminate against any group of people. But you're doing it with gritted teeth and pretend respect, because it seems to me you do believe in a certain absurd dogma that demands you take this whole subject in another light
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Did you read your post and mine in succession? I was not saying you summed up all of my thoughts or that I have said everything you have said.

My point was that you said "If it were a choice" then why would you care? Those are my thoughts exactly except I really believe it is a choice.

I feel that homosexuals should not be looked at or treated any differently than anybody else because we are all equal and in the same position.
 
Amir0x said:
Only a fucking enlarged foreheaded cave dweller would say that shit in the 21st century. But I forgot that's essentially what 90% of religious folk are.
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This post... I am laughing so hard that I am fucking crying.

I'm convinced Dunk#7 is a joke poster.
 
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