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[Visceir]

Never have and never would outright pay for an OS, but the new laptop I bought comes with Windows 8. Seems like most laptops come with windows 8 now and I imagine doing it like that will gradually increase Windows 8's marketshare.

I haven't checked it out before, mainly just hoping it will run faster...which it obviously will be as it will have an SSD system and all sorts of other jazz compared to my 6 year old laptop.

 

[Windu]

So im working on someones computer, and its a windows 8 machine. Its a disaster in my opinion. I shouldnt have to install something to get the start button back, and just the way you maneuver around is horrible. I cant find anything in the settings, I cant find the control panel unless I search.... Wont be buying it at all

searching has been the best way to launch stuff since vista.

 

[Peterthumpa]

Not really? You can't just boil everything down to subjectivity. A hybrid laptop being used as a tablet offers the worst of both worlds -- the limited precision of a touchscreen and the extra weight, extra heat, and lower battery life of a laptop.

Microsoft knows very well the lifespan of their products. I'll say it again: Windows 8 is a bet in the future. Give Intel 1 year, maximum, and you'll see that all of the bolded complaints are going to be a non-issue. They're already starting to be.

 

[Windu]

people complaing about the weight and battery life of windows tablets should look at the new clovertrail tablets. Thin and light as an ipad, 10+ hrs battery, compatable with x86 stuff.

 

[Divvy]

To avoid feature creep and be a product that is well designed.



Not really? You can't just boil everything down to subjectivity. A hybrid laptop being used as a tablet offers the worst of both worlds -- the limited precision of a touchscreen and the extra weight, extra heat, and lower battery life of a laptop.

It's not feature creep if it's actually useful for people. It's an absurd argument that anything that isn't 100% perfect shouldn't exist on any platform given the varying needs and relationships people have with their computers. There aren't really any features that are optimal for everyone.

It is entirely subjective because again, different people have different needs. Should screens with wacom tech not exist because hey, it adds weight to the machine? No ones forcing you to buy one if it does not suit your use case and they're not getting rid of standalone tablets in favour of them. Besides, laptops with touchscreens are actually useful since at times, it is much easier to touch a button or swipe something that use a mouse or touchpad. Just read this.

 

[Risette]

searching has been the best way to launch stuff since vista.

Taskbar for commonly used applications, though.

God, I love the Windows 7 taskbar.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Why? It's the same process, not sure why making it full screen is worse?

Probably due to the psychological effect of walking through a doorway. It can causes you to forget your task at hand (OMG I remember something from psychology!)

 

[Divvy]

Probably due to the psychological effect of walking through a doorway. It can causes you to forget your task at hand (OMG I remember something from psychology!)

Haha I remember that too, I guess that makes sense. Maybe I just haven't noticed.

 

[Business]

I put Windows 8 on my gaming PC and absolutely love it. The boot time with an SSD it's absolutely fantastic, it is visually very pleasing, metro apps are generally nice, for example the dedicated metro Kindle app I find it really useful. When I want the classic stuff I just go to the desktop... Honestly I can't understand all the hate Windows 8 gets. I also use a Mac and I now find myself looking for the hot corners as I do on Windows 8...

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I will be interested to see what the next major update will be like. I really like Windows 8 as it is, but I obviously will welcome improvements and tweaks.

 

[Jobiensis]

I don't think they have as bad of a perception problem with 8 that they did with Vista. They could fix a lot if they change their direction (unlikely under Ballmer).

The problem is Win8 is being met with indifference, and that is a big problem that MS needs to address. The whole point is to gain tablet marketshare and stay relevant. They need to attract people who are going to buy a Kindle, Nexus or iPad; not someone replacing their laptop. Just wait for .... is a horrible position to be in during the biggest consumer shopping season of the year. With corporations Win8 might have a very good future, but in order to get the growth, app market and profits MS wants, they need to make a presence in the consumer tablet market.

If WinRT ends up being stillborn, I don't see the Metro marketplace ever becoming as big as iOS marketplace, for the same reasons the Mac App store isn't as big as iOS. If companies can skip around it and not donate 20% of their revenue to some large company, they will.

 

[Kingbrave]

I put Windows 8 on my gaming PC and absolutely love it. The boot time with an SSD it's absolutely fantastic, it is visually very pleasing, metro apps are generally nice, for example the dedicated metro Kindle app I find it really useful. When I want the classic stuff I just go to the desktop... Honestly I can't understand all the hate Windows 8 gets. I also use a Mac and I now find myself looking for the hot corners as I do on Windows 8...

I am the same way. If people hate it, don't use it. We have a thread every single week saying it sucks. I have no problems with it at all. If you don't want to use Metro then don't. I just use the desktop.

 

[Xanonano]

Now you're getting me confused. I'm not familiar with Windows Phone, how is its home screen different from the Windows8 Start screen ?

There's a home screen which you can pin tiles to, and by swiping to the left you get a list of all the apps on the phone. There's actually a demo version you can try: http://wpdemo.cloudapp.net/

 

[Zaptruder]

Probably due to the psychological effect of walking through a doorway. It can causes you to forget your task at hand (OMG I remember something from psychology!)

Haha I remember that too, I guess that makes sense. Maybe I just haven't noticed.

It's not that mysterious... we have exceedingly terrible short term memory spans.

That 7+_2 figure that gets quoted for STM isn't accurate. It's more like a 300-400ms decay...

And when you change things in attention more, then the rate of that decay increases.

Transitioning from one room to another changes a whole bunch of things in your attention.

Having anchor points from the previous area helps preserve/reduce the rate of change in memory.


Design needs to account for human limitations, otherwise... it's not designed for people.

 

[Jzero]

Every time I see this "they haven't even tried it" condescending bullshit I want to reach through the internet and slap a fool upside the head.

Come at me bro, do you even lift?!

If people hate it, don't use it.

This. If people want Microsoft to fail that desperately then go ahead, but people need to stop making so many Windows 8 threads.

 

[LukasTaves]

Which is the problem with Windows 8. Nothing is intuitive in the metro interface for a user coming from an older windows version. Everything has to be found out by going online and getting answers from other people.

I though the concept of select multiple items and applying a single action to them very intuitive and in line as to how windows used to work since pretty much ever.

 

[Jado]

You're destroying your own argument. Windows 8 would have been a better product out of the box if Metro had been optional.

Far too many people who claim to love Windows 8 do so because they like the enhanced desktop experience, not because they like Metro apps, the new app store or the "enhanced" start menu. If Windows 8 fans feeld the need to remove or at least ignore the most important new features of Windows 8 in order to comfortably use it, then it simply means that Windows 8 is a design failure.

I use Start8 to have a Start menu and boot into Desktop, not to entirely ignore Metro screen and apps, so no, my argument holds for the many people like me who use it exactly like that.

I have a full Win8 tablet without any start menu app. I'm doing fine there as well.

Funny thing is that people install all sorts of 3rd party apps to enhance their experiences on iOS and Android. Apparently, this is inexcusable for Windows 8, which by default already runs as well as Windows 7 (barring a handful of obscure menu choices that need tweaking).

 

[Rayis]

get rid of it and keep updating Windows 7

 

[Jobiensis]

I though the concept of select multiple items and applying a single action to them very intuitive and in line as to how windows used to work since pretty much ever.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the way that works in Metro. Now, having to go to the bottom of the screen for right click options is a pain in the ass.

 

[Divvy]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the way that works in Metro. Now, having to go to the bottom of the screen for right click options is a pain in the ass.

Agreed. They need to put in that radial menu they have in the onenote app. That makes a lot more sense to me.

 

[Wiktor]

Doesn't need rescuing. It will propably be repeat of XP, ie: people will hate it at first, but they will get over it in a year and it will be huge success. Heck, the sales and adoption rates already are pretty damn good

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Funny thing is that people install all sorts of 3rd party apps to enhance their experiences on iOS and Android. Apparently, this is inexcusable for Windows 8, which by default already runs as well as Windows 7 (barring a handful of obscure menu choices that need tweaking).

Oh wow, iOS and Android are desktop OSs now?

You're bringing iOS and Android into it and then complaining about Windows 8 and 7. Two different arguments. I don't really think that many people have a problem with mobile Windows 8, it's the desktop people have problems with so bringing mobile focuses OSs into this is pointless.

Actually it hurts your argument because it just shows the awkwardness of trying to force the same OS to be used between multiple devices. Imagine having to move your mouse to the side of the screen to flip through everything you have installed. That would be iOS on a desktop. But wait, that'd be terrible. What could this possibly mean? That iOS was built specifically for one purpose and one system and wasn't shoehorned into situations it shouldn't be in for no real benefit to the average consumer?

Huh, who would have thought you'd make different OSs for different users and devices. The novelty of such a thing

Doesn't need rescuing. It will propably be repeat of XP, ie: people will hate it at first, but they will get over it in a year and it will be huge success. Heck, the sales and adoption rates already are pretty damn good

There's no way this happens. XP had no real competitors at the time (Linux and OSX are bigger now and actual competition), no steady decline in PC sales and was eventually adopted by businesses, which Metro's gimmicky interface is not going to be.

 

[JaggedSac]

There's no way this happens. XP had no real competitors at the time (Linux and OSX are bigger now and actual competition), no steady decline in PC sales and was eventually adopted by businesses, which Metro's gimmicky interface is not going to be.

Linux...actual competition...this year is the one.

 

[Jado]

Oh wow, iOS and Android are desktop OSs now?

Yes, Android and iOS are desktop OSes. Of course, that's exactly what I said.

 

[railGUN]

I like Windows 8, but I can totally understand why people have such strong opinions and reactions to it.

I had to Google how to change the weather app from fahrenheit to celsius... You'd think that setting would be in the "settings", or simply within the app's main screen, nope. You have to right-click (anywhere) when the app is running and look for the setting in the bottom right corner, which is the last place I'd think to look for that. The "settings" aren't even grouped, there's "settings" along the top, in the bottom left corner and the bottom right corner.

There's also no exit, or back button. I get that you don't have to quit Metro apps, and you can do a number of things to get out of it, but none of those things are intuitive at all. There is a "back arrow" in the top left corner of this app, which you would expect would take you back to the start screen - instead, it changes your weather location... yet in the "settings" menu, the arrow placed similarly, does in fact close the start menu.

These types of issues are not enough to sour me on Windows 8, but I can fully appreciate how frustrating this experience is for others.

 

[Hellcrow]

I'm not big on using desktop shortcuts. Either I use pinned stuff on taskbar or write the program in the search field in the start menu. Is this simple to do in windows 8?

 

[Wiktor]

There's no way this happens. XP had no real competitors at the time (Linux and OSX are bigger now and actual competition), no steady decline in PC sales and was eventually adopted by businesses, which Metro's gimmicky interface is not going to be.

Decline in PC sales isn't big and majority of PCs will be sold with Windows8. Which means in 2-3 years it will be on billion computers.
Also..OSX isn't real competition. There are propably already more Windows 8 users than Mac users or if not, there will be in few weeks.

 

[Jado]

I'm not big on using desktop shortcuts. Either I use pinned stuff on taskbar or write the program in the search field in the start menu. Is this simple to do in windows 8?

Yes. Win8 has global search that works even better than Win7's.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yes, Android and iOS are desktop OSes. Of course, that's exactly what I said.

hey, I'm not the one who compared experiences on iOS and Android in a discussion about desktop OSs and then later mentioned Windows 7 in my post

Decline in PC sales isn't big and majority of PCs will be sold with Windows8. Which means in 2-3 years it will be on billion computers.
Also..OSX isn't real competition. There are propably already more Windows 8 users than Mac users or if not, there will be in few weeks.

Deline in PC sales isn't big, then why is that one of the reasons parroted for the actual creation of Windows 8

OSX IS real competition. The market share of OSX has increased since 2001, meaning there's less of a share for Windows 8 to come in than XP had.

 

[JaggedSac]

I like Windows 8, but I can totally understand why people have such strong opinions and reactions to it.

I had to Google how to change the weather app from fahrenheit to celsius... You'd think that setting would be in the "settings", or simply within the app's main screen, nope. You have to right-click (anywhere) when the app is running and look for the setting in the bottom right corner, which is the last place I'd think to look for that. The "settings" aren't even grouped, there's "settings" along the top, in the bottom left corner and the bottom right corner.

There's also no exit, or back button. I get that you don't have to quit Metro apps, and you can do a number of things to get out of it, but none of those things are intuitive at all. There is a "back arrow" in the top left corner of this app, which you would expect would take you back to the start screen - instead, it changes your weather location... yet in the "settings" menu, the arrow placed similarly, does in fact close the start menu.

These types of issues are not enough to sour me on Windows 8, but I can fully appreciate how frustrating this experience is for others.

Those things are against the design guidelines. The top bar should not have settings, it should be for navigational items. Bottom bar should be contextually based on what is on screen or selected. Unless the Celsius or Fahrenheit can be set for each location separately, it should be in the settings menu accessed through the charms bar. There will never be a button on screen in an app to get back to the start menu, at least not in the current version of Windows. Once you know how to quit an app once, it is easy afterwards.

 

[Jado]

hey, I'm not the one who compared experiences on iOS and Android in a discussion about desktop OSs and then later mentioned Windows 7 in my post

I wasn't comparing full Windows 8 desktop user experience to mobile OSes. I was referring to the fact that IF one has an issue with Metro, then one can simply install a single app to minimize its use, not unlike how the average mobile OS user installs dozens of apps to alter the end-user experience. People have vocally complained that one shouldn't have to install any app at all, (even a single little app!), because apparently that's some kind of major deal-breaker.

 

[acksman]

If your looking to get your Start button back, take a look at Stardocks addon.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/features.asp

 

[Wiktor]

Deline in PC sales isn't big, then why is that one of the reasons parroted for the actual creation of Windows 8

Because people are dumb? Honestly. Last year the sales actually increased slightly. This year they might be down, but even if they do it will be by few percents. PCs are still selling insanely well.

OSX IS real competition. The market share of OSX has increased since 2001, meaning there's less of a share for Windows 8 to come in than XP had.

OSX is less of a competition to Windows then Windows Phone is to Android.
And sure, market share OSX might be slighly bigger than it was in 2001, but the whole market has also grown sigificantly. Even if the adoption rate is slower than XP, Windows 8 still won't have any problem with outselling the hell out of XP

 

[CharlieDigital]

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/features.asp

It is so lame that Microsoft could not just do this themselves and could have easily salvaged the desktop user experience for many of us.

I do development with VMs and work with our hosted servers via remote desktop and the new interface is virtually unusable. So fucking hard to hit the corners on a windowed instance of Server 8.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I still don't get why people hated Vista so much. I had it for a long time and it wasn't really so different than 7.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

OSX is less of a competition to Windows then Windows Phone is to Android.
And sure, market share OSX might be slighly bigger than it was in 2001, but the whole market has also grown sigificantly. Even if the adoption rate is slower than XP, Windows 8 still won't have any problem with outselling the hell out of XP

of course not, but that's not always the best indication of a healthy product or not, outselling a decade old OS in a larger market.

Akin to two video games selling 500,000 copies. One is a AAA game from 1985, the other came out last year. One of those would be a huge success, one of the best of its time, the other could bankrupt the company.

It's not quite worthwhile to argue based on raw sales figures, but moreso adoption rates, market shares, growth in stock price and profits when adjusted for inflation

 

[railGUN]

Those things are against the design guidelines. The top bar should not have settings, it should be for navigational items. Bottom bar should be contextually based on what is on screen or selected. Unless the Celsius or Fahrenheit can be set for each location separately, it should be in the settings menu accessed through the charms bar. There will never be a button on screen in an app to get back to the start menu, at least not in the current version of Windows. Once you know how to quit an app once, it is easy afterwards.

Well, the top bar is where you pick locations etc. so I'm not sure if you would consider that navigational - to me, it feels like a "setting".

The Celsius or Fahrenheit cannot be set for each location separately (I just tried it), so I guess MS broke their own design guidelines.

The only settings in the charm bar "settings" is to toggle Search History and to clear weather searches, which seems really odd (and leaves a huge column of wasted space)

And I know how to quit apps, but explaining to people that apps "suspend" and you don't need to quit them, or to quit them you need to use the contextual hand icon to throw them away or use a keyboard shortcut is unintuitive for no reason I can fathom.

These little things add up and frustrate people.

 

[Wiktor]

It's not quite worthwhile to argue based on raw sales figures, but moreso adoption rates, market shares, growth in stock price and profits when adjusted for inflation

Raw sales figures might not be end of all numbers, but they're not as worthless as market shares at least.

 

[ymmv]

Decline in PC sales isn't big and majority of PCs will be sold with Windows8. Which means in 2-3 years it will be on billion computers.
Also..OSX isn't real competition. There are propably already more Windows 8 users than Mac users or if not, there will be in few weeks.

Not really. Businesses will buy hundreds of millions of Windows 8 licenses, but the vast majority of these machines will run Windows 7 (or even XP). The majority of Windows 8 users will be consumers.

 

[Allard]

I still don't get why people hated Vista so much. I had it for a long time and it wasn't really so different than 7.

Poor optimization + too early for its time. Was a RAM hog and it got placed into new computers that should never have been forced to run it. If you had a computer that ran it without issues then it was a decent OS.

 

[Azih]

Poor optimization + too early for its time. Was a RAM hog and it got placed into new computers that should never have been forced to run it. If you had a computer that ran it without issues then it was a decent OS.

Also driver issues. It took a long while for that to be resolved by hardware vendors just in time for Windows 7 to benefit.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Raw sales figures might not be end of all numbers, but they're not as worthless as market shares at least.

when box office numbers for a hit movie come out and say "HIGHEST GROSSING FILM OF ALL TIME" do you believe it's unmatched by any other film in history?

I'd hope not, because chances are, when adjusted for inflation, and older movie sold way more.

You can't compare raw numbers across huge spaces of time, you need other metrics to look at that show trends and how successful a product is doing in its current space, versus the space of the previous product.

 

[Jobiensis]

Also driver issues. It took a long while for that to be resolved by hardware vendors just in time for Windows 7 to benefit.

Don't forget the hyperactive indexing service which ran too much of the time and didn't seem to stop in a timely manner when you started using the computer.

 

[dark10x]

I'm going to have to stand up in favor of Windows 8. I absolutely love the design of the OS and enjoy its great performance.

The new Metro environment is great for portables, no doubt, but it's also amazing for an HTPC user. When sitting at my desk, I typically spend more time at the desktop, but when I'm using my PC from the couch I stick to Metro. I've been using my desktop in this dual setup arrangement for quite a while now and Windows 8 is the first OS that finally fits both needs simultaneously.

 

[MCD]

I'm going to have to stand up in favor of Windows 8. I absolutely love the design of the OS and enjoy its great performance.

The new Metro environment is great for portables, no doubt, but it's also amazing for an HTPC user. When sitting at my desk, I typically spend more time at the desktop, but when I'm using my PC from the couch I stick to Metro. I've been using my desktop in this dual setup arrangement for quite a while now and Windows 8 is the first OS that finally fits both needs simultaneously.

There is an option to make tiles even bigger in Charms Bar --> Change PC Settings --> Ease of Access.

Might be worth a look if you love couch mode.

 

[rohlfinator]

And I know how to quit apps, but explaining to people that apps "suspend" and you don't need to quit them, or to quit them you need to use the contextual hand icon to throw them away or use a keyboard shortcut is unintuitive for no reason I can fathom.

That's largely because people aren't used to the "suspend" paradigm on a desktop, there's not much Microsoft can do about that. It's like the people who insisted on running task killers all the time on Android because they were afraid of leaving anything running in the background. I think that's something that will go away in time. It took my dad a little while to figure out that apps are analogous to phone apps (and not just glorified shortcuts or widgets) but now he's sailing pretty smoothly with it.

(And FYI, you can also close apps by middle-clicking them in the top-left app list... thingy or right-click->Closing them. I generally find that easier than the hand drag or hotkey method.)

I agree with you that many apps are confusing and unwieldy. That's one of my biggest gripes with the OS so far. In my experience, apps have been nicely streamlined as long as you stick to a pretty typical use case, but customization tends to be a pain.

 

[Jobiensis]

It's like the people who insisted on running task killers all the time on Android because they were afraid of leaving anything running in the background.

To be fair, with early versions (Donut?) of Android you had to kill apps if you wanted your battery to last.

 

[railGUN]

To be fair, with early versions (Donut?) of Android you had to kill apps if you wanted your battery to last.

And unless I'm mistaken, the "suspended" apps are only for Metro. You still have to close down any programs running on the desktop to prevent them from eating up all your memory. So the conversation with know-nothing-Bob is "Hey Bob, don't worry about quitting your apps running in the modern UI, they intelligently suspend and conserve memory... but you DO have to close programs running on your desktop if you don't want them eating up memory."

It is disjointed and confusing.

 

[JaggedSac]

The Celsius or Fahrenheit cannot be set for each location separately (I just tried it), so I guess MS broke their own design guidelines.

Not surprised, several of the MS apps are absolute dog shite. XBox Music and XBox Video, at least in terms of browsing your own content, are the most egregious offenders.

 

[dark10x]

There is an option to make tiles even bigger in Charms Bar --> Change PC Settings --> Ease of Access.

Might be worth a look if you love couch mode.

I already use it.

It's great as it doesn't increase the font size of the desktop making dual usage scenarios even better.