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[Beautifully Shaped Monsters]

If ms gave the end user what they think they wanted we would load dos up and then load windows 95 in dos when gou want to use it and then from windows 95 you couod load up 7 and then only use metro when you feel like it.

The only windows os that didnt have a huge amount of complaing about was 7. Every os before it was met by pitch forks and. Torches.

And after a few Service packs, where MS implemented a lot of the functionality users where missing or improved the stability, people started to like those OS'es.

It's not that users suddenly realised "Win XP - it's not that bad", it's that after 2 service packs it finally was no longer a complete mess from a stability and security point of view.

 

[SuicideUZI]

Unless this has seen a lot of patches since I last used it, I find both Classic Shell and Start8 rubbish attempts at mimicking the Windows 7 start menu.

Startisback is cheaper and better. It has a few nice customization options, but essentially it is a 100% replication of the Windows 7 start menu. Recently used files / programs, search, drag and drop, etc all work exactly as they do in Windows 7, which Start8 and Classic Shell don't do.

their "movie" is funny

 

[ymmv]

It's interesting watching people come in here exasperated by the dislike of Windows 8 as they post about things that have nothing to do or sidestep the legitimate complaints people have.

I particularly like posters who claim to love Windows 8 and then comment that it's so easy to ignore the new Metro start menu because you hardly spend any time in it any way - or you can install something like ClassicShell if you want to get rid of it for the most part. Classic example of damning with faint praise.

I'm one of those too. The only reason I keep Windows 8 is because I never have to see the new UI thanks to ClassicShell. Windows 8 is almost exactly like WIndows 7 and I like it now - but it doesn't make the idea behind Windows 8 (merging two disparate user experiences on the desktop) less off a clusterfuck.

 

[Burai]

I particularly like posters who claim to love Windows 8 and then comment that it's so easy to ignore the new Metro start menu because you hardly spend any time in it any way - or you can install something like ClassicShell if you want to get rid of it for the most part. Classic example of damning with faint praise.

I'm one of those too. The only reason I keep Windows 8 is because I never have to see the new UI thanks to ClassicShell. Windows 8 is almost exactly like WIndows 7 and I like it now - but it doesn't make the idea behind Windows 8 (merging two disparate user experiences on the desktop) less off a clusterfuck.

Yeah, this whole idea that people should go out and spend money on a new OS and then either hack it or try to find keyboard shortcut workarounds to restore it back to the functionality they already have for free boggles my mind.

 

[BocoDragon]

I think you should upgrade to Windows 8 and not hack a thing away. The start screen is a better launcher for all variety of programs (including all desktop apps) and the start button is some archaic 1995 shit.

 

[linkboy]

I think you should upgrade to Windows 8 and not hack a thing away. The start screen is a better launcher for all variety of programs (including all desktop apps) and the start button is some archaic 1995 shit.

What ever happened to letting people setup Windows how they want it setup. That's one of the things that made Windows so great.

It's like bitching about someone patching uxtheme.dll and using a custom theme in Windows 7.

 

[commissar]

Bought W8 Pro today, turns out they don't say anywhere on the box that it's a fucking upgrade version.

Gonna return it tomorrow.


Might lay a complaint with our Commerce Commission too, see how +/- effort I am after Christmas :|

 

[BocoDragon]

What ever happened to letting people setup Windows how they want it setup. That's one of the things that made Windows so great.

It's like bitching about someone patching uxtheme.dll and using a custom theme in Windows 7.

Well they can do that. Clearly I was combatting the silly back and forth between "don't worry you can hack the start button back in and it's the same as Win7!" and "but if I need to hack it back to being like Win7 then why upgrade?".

My perspective is that the metro start screen is better, modern, you can arrange it how you want. It is infinitely more modern than nested lists of folders in drop down menus.

You don't need to hack it back to 1995.... this is better:

 

[Steelrain]

Well they can do that. Clearly I was combatting the silly back and forth between "don't worry you can hack the start button back in and it's the same as Win7!" and "but if I need to hack it back to being like Win7 then why upgrade?".

My perspective is that the metro start screen is better, modern, you can arrange it how you want. It is infinitely more modern than nested lists of folders in drop down menus.

You don't need to hack it back to 1995.... this is better:

Ehhh.....to each their own but I think that looks like shit.

 

[linkboy]

Well they can do that. Clearly I was combatting the silly back and forth between "don't worry you can hack the start button back in and it's the same as Win7!" and "but if I need to hack it back to being like Win7 then why upgrade?".

My perspective is that the metro start screen is better, modern, you can arrange it how you want. It is infinitely more modern than nested lists of folders in drop down menus.

You don't need to hack it back to 1995.... this is better:

To be honest, installing a 3rd party start menu isn't really hacking. Patching uxtheme.dll is more hacking then a 3rd party start menu.

For me, the biggest reason why I upgraded was for the faster boot times and the other improvements MS made to the desktop.

Me personally, I use Start8 because I'm more comformtable with the classic Start menu. I've been running Windows 8 since the consumer preview and I've tried to give the new start screen a chance and I just can't get used to it.

 

[BocoDragon]

Ehhh.....to each their own but I think that looks like shit.

You can tweak it to your liking, the layout and color scheme was entirely my choice (and the desire to separate games by publisher).. but the main point is that this is more usable. Having a 90s era drop down menu (or drop up in the case of Win 7 Start) is nearly DOS-like in its archaic function at this point... and you can do something kinda similar with a grid of shortcuts on desktop or in folders but it's not nearly as easy to navigate, or bring up with the push of a button and hide away just the same.

It makes sense to me that my most used apps are in some sort of visual, rearrangeable modern iOS/Android/Wii-like menu rather than hidden away in very old "folder and drop down menu" UIs. You are free to disagree, but for me this is a no brainer. And it's the point that very few are making in the "this is meant for touchscreens" dialogue. I would say this is better even in the absence of the mobile/tablet/touchscreen revolution.

 

[MrHicks]

i agree with boco
metro start > old start

and i don't even use metro apps
all desktop software

 

[BocoDragon]

Oh and Steam Launcher? Total marriage between Steam and Win8. Automatically grabs Steam's art for each game and makes icons for you that launch the game. I'm actually more likely to play my Steam games now, because they are there at the touch of a button. Sorry Gabe.

 

[Slavik81]

Well they can do that. Clearly I was combatting the silly back and forth between "don't worry you can hack the start button back in and it's the same as Win7!" and "but if I need to hack it back to being like Win7 then why upgrade?".

My perspective is that the metro start screen is better, modern, you can arrange it how you want. It is infinitely more modern than nested lists of folders in drop down menus.

You don't need to hack it back to 1995.... this is better:

I still can't believe people are touting full screen modal dialogs as being the sensible option on 24" monitors in 2012.

It's understandable on tablets and phones where screen space is limited and inputs are imprecise. New input technologies and new displays have resulted in new UIs. It is a horrific mistake to see modern touch interfaces and think that such interfaces are ideal for every display and every input method.

The same design principles apply to all platforms, but that does not mean the optimal interfaces for each platform will look much alike.

I'd rather just glance over at the start menu and open a program that without ever losing sight of what I was doing.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Well they can do that. Clearly I was combatting the silly back and forth between "don't worry you can hack the start button back in and it's the same as Win7!" and "but if I need to hack it back to being like Win7 then why upgrade?".

My perspective is that the metro start screen is better, modern, you can arrange it how you want. It is infinitely more modern than nested lists of folders in drop down menus.

You don't need to hack it back to 1995.... this is better:

Not trying to be an asshole but that looks horrid dude. It's like a clash of different styles. You've got the flat metro look, and then you've got a bunch of different art styles mixed in with older looking icons for some programs versus newer looking icons for other programs versus Metro styled icons.

 

[BocoDragon]

I still can't believe people are touting full screen modal dialogs as being the sensible option on 24" monitors in 2012.

It's understandable on tablets and phones where screen space is limited and inputs are imprecise. New input technologies and new displays have resulted in new UIs. It is a horrific mistake to see modern touch interfaces and think that such interfaces are ideal for every display and every input method.

The same design principles apply to all platforms, but that does not mean the optimal interfaces for each platform will look much alike.

I'd rather just glance over at the start menu and open a program that without ever losing sight of what I was doing.

I don't understand what screen size has to do with it. I understand that these ideas might have come into vogue through the development of mobile UIs, but the inception is irrelevant to me. I would think this was a better UI even without the example of mobile touchscreens.

When I want to launch a program, or I'm just thinking about what to launch, I want to see a big interface that shows me all of my programs at once. And I like the feeling of "ownership" that I have in rearranging them how I want.

I'm probably a visual person. I know not everyone is like this (particularly not the average left-brained geek), but I like having a clean, visual representation of options. Having things hidden away: in fractions of my screen, in nested folders, etc, actually interferes with my workflow! I don't know what my programs are, I can't really see them, I forget they're even there... I spend a lot of time trying to imagine what apps I have when I really just want to SEE them.

Being able to call up a visual representation of my app options actually speeds up my workflow.

Not trying to be an asshole but that looks horrid dude. It's like a clash of different styles. You've got the flat metro look, and then you've got a bunch of different art styles mixed in with older looking icons for some programs versus newer looking icons for other programs versus Metro styled icons.

As opposed to the start menu where everything is permantly hidden... No "clashing" to speak of because you never even have visual elements in the first place! It's all just lists of text with microscopic icons.

You can call these differing styles a clash if you want. If they really bother you, there are ways to skin old icons with new design. But personally I don't care. The old icon serves as a reminder that it's going to open in a desktop window anyway.

The point is that this is better to use. I push a button on my keyboard and I have everything I actually use on my PC grouped how I want it, in a visual manner. Nested folders/drop down menus are bad for launching programs.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Why is this so hard to grasp?

w8 on an ssd is marvelous. It's a FUCKTON easier to see a list of my fav apps than going through that arduous start menu from older windows. I'm honestly baffled at the tech blogs who dislike 8, the resistance to change is odd.

How does windows work in Windows 8?
Like, can I have multiple windows open at the same time?

 

[freddy]

I was thinking of dipping, not so much anymore. If Android went desktop however...

I've had android running in VM on desktop. Not sure if that project is still running though. I think it was Google that released it.

 

[xenist]

As I said before, I like the Metro design language for individual applications but I haven't seen a start screen yet that I didn't find an eyesore. Just give me flat shading and good typography and stop trying to shove a UI designed to work with fat fucking fingers into a device that operates with almost a pixel level precision. So obnoxious.

And I still fail to see the point of upgrading to a new OS when the first thing you do is discarding its UI.

 

[linkboy]

How does windows work in Windows 8?
Like, can I have multiple windows open at the same time?

Desktop, yes
Metro, no

 

[Bornstellar]

As I said before, I like the Metro design language for individual applications but I haven't seen a start screen yet that I didn't find an eyesore. Just give me flat shading and good typography and stop trying to shove a UI designed to work with fat ****ing fingers into a device that operates with almost a pixel level precision. So obnoxious.

And I still fail to see the point of upgrading to a new OS when the first thing you do is discarding its UI.

Here's mine.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I don't understand what screen size has to do with it. I understand that these ideas might have come into vogue through the development of mobile UIs, but the inception is irrelevant to me. I would think this was a better UI even without the example of mobile touchscreens.

When I want to launch a program, or I'm just thinking about what to launch, I want to see a big interface that shows me all of my programs at once. And I like the feeling of "ownership" that I have in rearranging them how I want.

I'm probably a visual person. I know not everyone is like this (particularly not the average left-brained geek), but I like having a clean, visual representation of options. Having things hidden away: in fractions of my screen, in nested folders, etc, actually interferes with my workflow! I don't know what my programs are, I can't really see them, I forget they're even there... I spend a lot of time trying to imagine what apps I have when I really just want to SEE them.

Being able to call up a visual representation of my app options actually speeds up my workflow.



As opposed to the start menu where everything is permantly hidden... No "clashing" to speak of because you never even have visual elements in the first place! It's all just lists of text with microscopic icons.

You can call these differing styles a clash if you want. If they really bother you, there are ways to skin old icons with new design. But personally I don't care. The old icon serves as a reminder that it's going to open in a desktop window anyway.

The point is that this is better to use. I push a button on my keyboard and I have everything I actually use on my PC grouped how I want it, in a visual manner. Nested folders/drop down menus are bad for launching programs.

I guess, I have no issues with the screen just how clashy your screen looks, as compared to say Convenientbox's screen.

 

[Bornstellar]

Desktop, yes
Metro, no

Metro, yes, but only 2 with sizes being predefined.

 

[BocoDragon]

I guess, I have no issues with the screen just how clashy your screen looks, as compared to say Convenientbox's screen.

The only difference is our apps :/ seems like a silly concern.

The whole point of my post was showing how all the legacy apps live in harmony, in a more navigable form than they have ever been before. Oh, the colors clash.. :/ well who cares? Leave them out then?

 

[Hammer24]

Installed 8 on my new laptop. Took about a week to really get comfy, and actually get the new usability logic; and put the metro to my liking.
Can´t look back. My work pc with 7 now feels cluttered and outdated. And slow.

 

[Angelus Errare]

The only difference is our apps :/ seems like a silly concern.

The loud blue versus his subdued blacks are the main culprit...and that pattern for the wallpaper.

 

[BocoDragon]

The loud blue versus his subdued blacks are the main culprit...and that pattern for the wallpaper.

You should see it on my plasma TV... looks amazing and it's so nice to use. (that background is actually on a parallax scroll... the apps are floating over top of it.) Maybe it doesn't screenshot well.

You can set it however you want, though.

The point in the context of this thread though is "go back to start button? It's better? HA!" I would never want to go back. That's why it's funny to see all these people make the argument about being "forced" to this, and all the talk of hacking back the start button... This start screen is just a better way to compute (at least with my brain!).

EDIT: Here's the top of the screen... just to better get an idea/mock my aesthetic tastes.

 

[Zizbuka]

Oh and Steam Launcher? Total marriage between Steam and Win8. Automatically grabs Steam's art for each game and makes icons for you that launch the game. I'm actually more likely to play my Steam games now, because they are there at the touch of a button. Sorry Gabe.

I assume that's a paid app? And how is grid view in Steam not the same? It's actually a nice launcher.

My only real complaint with Win8 is the lack of customizations in Metro. I would love more control over the tiles, and if they want people to leave desktop give me a toolbar like alternative. Metro is just a wall of icons, some of which give info.

 

[jimi_dini]

Metro, no

Shouldn't they call it Microsoft Window 8 then?

 

[BocoDragon]

I assume that's a paid app?

It's free.

And how is grid view in Steam not the same? It's actually a nice launcher.

Steam grid view is good.

But it's not integrated with the rest of my apps and games. I really like the idea that I can group my Steam games with games from other services, or legacy games from CD, etc. ie. Put Monkey Island Special Edition with my ripped copies of Escape from Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, ScummVM, etc.... And I can group them how I want.

Plus I can call/send away the start screen with the click of a windows key, or a mouse click in the corner. I can bring it up at any time and peruse my games. And actually, as someone with a PC hooked up to a plasma, this is a better "big picture" mode, and one that is not limited to Steam titles....

Steam client is always there so it's not really an either/or situation anyway. Want to go into Steam? You still can. But with this launcher, I can skip that if I like, right into a game, with nice visual icons to do so.

 

[Spunky Monkey]

What a mess. I bought a new laptop that came with windows 8. As its a laptop i wanted to install Truecrypt so if its ever lost/stolen no one can access my data. Turns out its been made a GPT hard drive which means no encryption software will currently work.

You can't make it an MBR drive without losing all your data. This wouldn't be an issue except the recovery software always makes the drive GPT. So i thought well ive got a valid windows 8 serial, i'll just download and reinstall windows except i can't find a single download link for Windows 8. Lots of ways to buy it or upgrade but no way for me to even get it. Even torrents are turning up empty results.

So im screwed. Well there is a way around it, install windows 7, PAY to upgrade to windows 8 and hope it works. FFS why can't this be easy!

 

[Zizbuka]

I get what you're saying Boco, but Metro just leaves me wanting more. I'd love to use it like you do, but having to scroll way to the right to get to my game launchers bugs me.

I want more control. I want to do more than group icons in a bunch. A bunch that for some reason does everything 2 columns at a time, no matter the number of columns in that group.

I want customizations like Android. I want to have options.

 

[BocoDragon]

I get what you're saying Boco, but Metro just leaves me wanting more. I'd love to use it like you do, but having to scroll way to the right to get to my game launchers bugs me.

I want more control. I want to do more than group icons in a bunch. A bunch that for some reason does everything 2 columns at a time, no matter the number of columns in that group.

I want customizations like Android. I want to have options.

It's not a bad point. I'd like more customization too. (though why not put the game launchers at the beginning?)

I'm not saying Win 8 is perfect... but the "visual launcher" is a step into a world I want to live in. I never liked applications being buried in nest menus (and with all the "readmes" and all the "uninstaller" crap along for the ride)... and I never liked littering my desktop with ugly shortcuts. Having a visual launcher that I can bring up and hide away quickly is a revelation.

 

[Nemo]

I still can't believe people are touting full screen modal dialogs as being the sensible option on 24" monitors in 2012.

It's understandable on tablets and phones where screen space is limited and inputs are imprecise. New input technologies and new displays have resulted in new UIs. It is a horrific mistake to see modern touch interfaces and think that such interfaces are ideal for every display and every input method.

The same design principles apply to all platforms, but that does not mean the optimal interfaces for each platform will look much alike.

I'd rather just glance over at the start menu and open a program that without ever losing sight of what I was doing.

It works a lot better on laptops, I have a 13" version and I agree with it being a lot nicer to start a program via the metro interface

 

[BocoDragon]

i agree with boco
metro start > old start

and i don't even use metro apps
all desktop software

It works a lot better on laptops, I have a 13" version and I agree with it being a lot nicer to start a program via the metro interface

I'm happy that at least some people know what I am getting at Call my start screen ugly if you want, but I'm delighted to have a "world" to arrange and launch all my applications from. Nested folders and shortcuts were not the same.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I'm more of a function over form kinda guy.
Boco, you'd absolutely hate my desktop, but it has shortcuts to pretty much everything I need.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Yawn! Another stupid win8 bashing thread. Works great for me. Would never want to go back to an OS that doesn't sync my settings wherever I go and is inherently insecure like windows 7. No security issues whatsoever with my surface and once the app store fully develops the choice will be obvious.

</change sucks, end thread>

please explain this? I love windows 8, but what you say about 7 needs to be qualified. Windows 7 is not 'inherently insecure'

 

[Zizbuka]

I have customized toolbars next to the tray. I created folders for my games by genre, each a toolbar. That's kinda what Metro does with the groups, but I don't need to always see them. Maybe of groups were collapsible in some way? Don't know, let the smart people at Microsoft figure it out.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm more of a function over form kinda guy.
Boco, you'd absolutely hate my desktop, but it has shortcuts to pretty much everything I need.

Ah... that's totally fair enough .... probably, we do have differing styles of computing! If anything I'm form over function (although I hesitate to say that without qualification, because a more clean and appealing form means better function, for my mind anyway).

I have customized toolbars next to the tray. I created folders for my games by genre, each a toolbar. That's kinda what Metro does with the groups, but I don't need to always see them. Maybe of groups were collapsible in some way? Don't know, let the smart people at Microsoft figure it out.

Yeah iterations on metro will be more promising. I'm kind of glad for the backlash because it means they're gonna bust their asses on improving it.

I think I like all the apps being uncollapsed... but options are always nice. And I think once I get all my legacy games ripped to the PC there will be so many icons that folders will probably be smart...

 

[KingFire]

A tablet interface does not work for desktops. Period.

A decision to make the main interface is perhaps the worst business decision I have ever seen. If it were optional, and the user were encouraged to use it, then sure include it as an extra feature. Forcing a counter-intuitive feature down our throats generate nothing but complaints.

That is why Apple is keeping Mac UI and Iphone/Tablet UI separate. They would love to merge them together I am sure, but that will generate nothing but trouble.

 

[BocoDragon]

It's too bad there wasn't a Windows 7.5 that introduced the Metro screen as an optional launcher... not replacing anything. So much perception out there that this is to force touchscreens and closed apps on us (which is true), but aside from that, as I've said much on this page, I got a huge usability boost from the start screen on my desktop.

 

[kitch9]

Desktop, yes
Metro, no

You couldn't have multiple windows open in the old Start though, Start just opened a window on the desktop.

 

[StudioTan]

A tablet interface does not work for desktops. Period.

A decision to make the main interface is perhaps the worst business decision I have ever seen. If it were optional, and the user were encouraged to use it, then sure include it as an extra feature. Forcing a counter-intuitive feature down our throats generate nothing but complaints.

That is why Apple is keeping Mac UI and Iphone/Tablet UI separate. They would love to merge them together I am sure, but that will generate nothing but trouble.

Works just fine, use it 12-16 hours a day.

 

[dragonelite]

I'm more of a function over form kinda guy.
Boco, you'd absolutely hate my desktop, but it has shortcuts to pretty much everything I need.

Command line/terminal all the way

 

[Azih]

Everything is going the live tile like route now though guys.

Look at the steam store RIGHT now

store.steampowered.com

Or Steam big picture mode as compared to standard Steam UI or the 'Frequently visited sites' tab in pretty much every browser.

It all looks like Metro frankly. Would all of these be better as a list of sale titles/games/sites? I don't really think so.

Every interface out there now has it's place. I'm going to install Cygwin on my Win8 box and then I'll have the best of all three worlds. Tablet style apps for consumption. Desktop for productivity, and command line for the occasional plunge into hardcore nerd work (no desktop or tablet substitute for grep yo).

 

[CharlieDigital]

Works just fine, use it 12-16 hours a day.

Have you tried using it in windowed mode like Remote Desktop or virtual machine?

It's fucking nigh unusable.

I do enterprise software development so I am working with VMs and interacting with our hosted servers and VMs all day.

Server 8 is a clusterfuck from that perspective.

 

[StudioTan]

Have you tried using it in windowed mode like Remote Desktop or virtual machine?

It's fucking nigh unusable.

I do enterprise software development so I am working with VMs and interacting with our hosted servers and VMs all day.

Server 8 is a clusterfuck from that perspective.

No I haven't, seems like they need to do a lot of work in that area, I hope it's addressed soon. That wasn't really the point I was addressing though.

 

[CharlieDigital]

No I haven't, seems like they need to do a lot of work in that area, I hope it's addressed soon. That wasn't really the point I was addressing though.

It blows my mind why they even put it INTO A SERVER OS?!?!

WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY THINKING?!

 

[PaulLFC]

Windows 8's handling of multiple displays is garbage. It refuses to take any notice of the "make this my main display" setting for my monitor (DVI), instead deciding it knows my setup better than me, and defaults the TV (HDMI, used mainly for Netflix) as the main display.

This causes no end of problems that would be avoided if it actually bothered taking any notice of the settings I've told it to use. I don't particularly need the TV if I'm not using the second screen, so the sensible thing would be to turn it off - except, I can't do that, because Windows 8 gets confused at the mess it's created for itself, turns off my monitor for a few seconds while it figures itself out, then continues to treat the TV as if it's still in use even though it's turned off. It will still open some windows, and, most annoyingly, UAC prompts, on the now-switched-off screen, meaning I have to switch it on to do anything.

Just today, I turned on the PC and monitor, and the BIOS screen and Windows 8 loading screens appeared fine on the monitor - then, it presented me with a blank screen and no logon prompt. So I restarted a few times, same outcome. Time to boot into safe mode to see what's going on, I thought. Restart, hit F8, nothing happens. Read on phone that it's changed to Shift+F8 for no apparent reason. Restart, shift+F8, nothing.

Start to contemplate that I might have to reinstall when I turn on the TV - initially to go on the PS3, only to see the welcome screen pop up - the TV being off had prevented the logon screen from showing on my monitor, all because of Windows 8's stupid implementation of multiple monitors.

 

[killer rin]

It doesn't need rescuing, it's doing fine. Just remember that it has only been out for a month now and not many people have used or even seen Windows 8 yet. Give it a few more months for the mind share to increase.