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Canadian General Election (OT) - #elxn42: October 19, 2015

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T

Tiktaalik

Member
Folks should watch CPAC sometime and see just how important MPs actually are. They're pawns of the leadership that read pre-written speeches made for them by the leadership and vote exactly along party lines how they're told.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
Fuzzy said:
Unless you know their history in lower forms of government.
Click to expand...

Unless you've personally had interactions with them in that lower form of government, this is a particularly difficult kind of research to carry out. Like, it's nice to imagine a world where everyone can do that, and that this doesn't *still* unfairly handicap people new to electoral politics, but it's not really practical.

The reality is that how they vote *is* more important to most people than the idea that they might someday need to call on their MP/MLA for something. Most people don't ever do that. Hell, if most people did, the MP/MLA wouldn't ever be able to handle the load.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Alavard said:
That's a very simplistic view. MPs do more than just vote in the House of Commons. Many do valuable work outside of parliament for their constituents.
Click to expand...

Canadian MPs are not representatives, they are lackeys that toe the party line, any MP who decides to buck their party due to an issue that their constituents do not agree with, that MP is subject to punishment by the party leadership, either by being tossed to the rear as a backbencher or ever get kicked out of the party caucus or worse, kicked out of the party

Our MPs are not true representatives, they are party partisan mouthpieces.


Maria Mourani of the Bloc was kicked out of the Caucus when she voiced opposition to her party's support for the Provincial counterpart's minority PQ government's Charter of Values legislation.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maria-mourani-expelled-bloc-mp-quits-the-party-1.1828707


Bill Casey a Conservative MP voted NAY against his party's budget. Got kicked out of the caucus.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/tory-mp-ejected-from-caucus-after-budget-vote-1.644248
 
T

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
Fuzzy said:
Stop worrying about the leaders and look at your local candidates.
Click to expand...

matthewwhatever said:
So much this. You're voting for your MP, not your PM. No matter how centralized power may get, an MP's main responsibility is to help constituents, so you need to look at who you think will do the best job of that.
Click to expand...

This has not been true for a long long time.


Edit: I see others have gone into detail as to why such is the case, good.
 
A

Alavard

Member
gutter_trash said:
Canadian MPs are not representatives, they are lackeys that toe the party line, any MP who decides to buck their party due to an issue that their constituents do not agree with, that MP is subject to punishment by the party leadership, either by being tossed to the rear as a backbencher or ever get kicked out of the party caucus or worse, kicked out of the party

Our MPs are not true representatives, they are party partisan mouthpieces.


Maria Mourani of the Bloc was kicked out of the Caucus when she voiced opposition to her party's support for the Provincial counterpart's minority PQ government's Charter of Values legislation.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maria-mourani-expelled-bloc-mp-quits-the-party-1.1828707


Bill Casey a Conservative MP voted NAY against his party's budget. Got kicked out of the caucus.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/tory-mp-ejected-from-caucus-after-budget-vote-1.644248
Click to expand...

That's not really refuting my point of the work they do outside of parliament.
 
A

Alavard

Member
Terra Firma said:
But how would you decide who is the best from the 5-6 different candidates if you've only been exposed to the incumbent?
Click to expand...

Usually the other candidates would have other experience working with the community, in other elected or volunteer capacities. Often times they'll also be pledging to do certain things for the community if elected as the local MP.

Edit - To be clear, I'm not saying that this is my most important deciding factor of who I vote for, but it can certainly be something that sways me between candidates if I'm on the edge.
 
T

Tiktaalik

Member
winjet81 said:
Where's a good, impartial place to read up on each of the major partys and their election platforms/policies/promises?
Click to expand...

It sounds at first like a good idea to find something that summarizes everything and saves you time, but those sort of articles will usually be pretty vapid and without real depth. If you really want to really understand a party platform and understand whether a promise is good for Canadians you'll have to put in the time to research things yourself.

The best thing to do is go to all the parties' websites, and read their platform. After this, google parts of the platform to find commentary about it and read multiple articles. Try to find multiple differing viewpoints and then make your own decision about what sounds most reasonable to you.
 
R

ryan-ts

Member
If anyone wants to see the mindset of a Conservative supporter, go visit the Stephen Harper Facebook page and read the comments for the post about "religious minorities under threat."
 
W

Walpurgis

Banned
MPs are useless. I was angry about C-51 so I stupidly emailed my MP in hopes of introducing doubt into his mind. One week later, I received this in the mail.
image.jpg
Click to expand...
Damn useless.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
6.8 said:
This thread is as good as it gets.
Click to expand...

Tiktaalik said:
It sounds at first like a good idea to find something that summarizes everything and saves you time, but those sort of articles will usually be pretty vapid and without real depth. If you really want to really understand a party platform and understand whether a promise is good for Canadians you'll have to put in the time to research things yourself.

The best thing to do is go to all the parties' websites, and read their platform. After this, google parts of the platform to find commentary about it and read multiple articles. Try to find multiple differing viewpoints and then make your own decision about what sounds most reasonable to you.
Click to expand...

These posts captured it pretty well. I think only the Greens have fully unveiled their platform (see the first post -- I added it to their info), but all of them have unveiled bits and pieces -- i.e. the Liberals have promised a massive investment in infrastructure, the NDP is saying they'll take Quebec-style childcare nationwide, the Conservatives are...uh...promising very niche tax credits. (I honestly have no idea what the CPC is promising, but in their defense it's harder to promise much when you've been in power nine years.) Read up on what they're saying, then look at commentary, and if you still have questions, bring them here -- there are some pretty smart posters in Canadian PoliGAF, and I always find I learn stuff, even if I may not agree with where people are coming from.

gutter_trash said:
Bill Casey a Conservative MP voted NAY against his party's budget. Got kicked out of the caucus.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/tory-mp-ejected-from-caucus-after-budget-vote-1.644248
Click to expand...

Bill Casey is a terrible example of what you're trying to show, because he's pretty widely recognized as someone who does outstanding constituency work. He was a very good PC MP, and then a strong Conservative MP, and then a strong independent MP. The Greens openly campaigned for him to be an independent -- they wouldn't run a candidate against him, because they felt he belonged in Parliament -- and now he's probably going to be elected as a Liberal MP. He keeps winning by huge margins because people in his riding know they're getting solid representation in Ottawa when they vote for him.

More broadly: I know I'm pretty idealistic when it comes to what an MP should do, but I think you guys are too cynical. Like the Senate, there are certainly flaws now -- and Harper's definitely accelerated and accentuated the problems -- but I don't think it's irreparably damaged. In fact, the fixes are pretty easy: substantially increase the number of MPs, so they're not representing as many people. (Seriously, I'd like it if we had a few hundred more MPs.) Remove the party leaders' signing authority for nominations, so that riding associations can pick whoever they want. Stop Harper's practice of making everything a confidence vote, so that there doesn't need to be party-line whipping on every vote.

There are a few other things, but as I said, I don't think the system is as broken as a lot of you do.
 
A

Apathy

Member
Walpurgis said:
MPs are useless. I was angry about C-51 so I stupidly emailed my MP in hopes of introducing doubt into his mind. One week later, I received this in the mail.

Damn useless.
Click to expand...

Wow, I can't believe the cons need to sink to that level. Yeah I must be a terrorist if i disagree with c-51. fucking useless
 
T

Tiktaalik

Member
If I see a good article that lines up the platforms I'll post it. We might see some appear closer to the actual election date (remember folks we're still quite a ways out).

As matthewwhatever states the parties haven't even officially put out their full, costed out platforms yet but they should be very soon.
 
W

Walpurgis

Banned
Alavard said:
Yeah, not much of a whiz, is he? And not very good at looking out for number one. Honestly, though, I'm just glad this information leaked out.
Click to expand...

gabbo said:
I guess no one in the CPC actually does watch the CBC... Stick to their guns on that one.
If Harper gets back in, the CBC's budget will be $0 after this.
Click to expand...

Simon Belmont said:
Just another Conservative that thinks urination unto yourself.
Click to expand...
LMAO

There was one CPC candidate in the Yukon that had some weirdo tearing down his political ads. And what did he do? He ratcheted the weirdness to a whole new level and hid in the forest wearing full camo with another guy and jumped the lady tearing down his signs. He then handcuffed her and called the RCMP.
 
G

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
M

matthewwhatever

Member
The Conservatives have probably flushed any chance they had of taking Scarborough Rouge River down the toilet.

Walpurgis said:
There was one CPC candidate in the Yukon that had some weirdo tearing down his political ads. And what did he do? He ratcheted the weirdness to a whole new level and hid in the forest wearing full camo with another guy and jumped the lady tearing down his signs. He then handcuffed her and called the RCMP.
Click to expand...

This story didn't get nearly enough attention. And he's already an MP! I love the mental image of this guy:

LeefRyan_CPC.jpg
Click to expand...

Sitting in the Yukon wilderness in full camouflage, hoping he's picked the vandal's next target.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
GSG Flash said:
He just pulled out of the election: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/elec...-no-longer-a-conservative-candidate-1.2551211
Click to expand...

During a campaign stop in Toronto on Monday, NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair used the incident to mock the Conservatives with a stream of puns. Mulcair said Canadians weren't expecting to see this particular "mug shot" from the Conservatives, and suggested Bance "must be someone who's adept at Stephen Harper's trickle-down theory of economics."
Click to expand...

Wow.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Too Close to Call is slower to update than 308

308 is periodically recalculating all polls of the week and comparing it with the weeks prior like Week 1, Week 2, Week 3, Week 4 Week 5
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
For anyone interested, Peter Mansbridge is doing his one-on-one interviews with the four main leaders this week:
- Harper tonight
- Trudeau Tuesday
- Mulcair Wednesday
- May Friday

Last time out, I remember him being criticized for going hard after Layton and Ignatieff, but lobbing softballs at Harper. It'll be interesting to see if he's any tougher this time around.

GSG Flash said:
What's more reliable for riding to riding polls, 308 or Too Close to Call?

On 308, the Liberals have a decent lead right now in my riding. On Too Close to Call, the Conservatives have a comfortable lead in my riding.
Click to expand...

Which riding are you in? Something Ottawa, right?
 
I

Iph

Banned
Tom Mulclairity win for Game of All Time. He'd make an amazing buffer period to throw all the long term corruption from both the Conservatives and Liberal party under the bus. Who wants to watch some big name politicians and government employees stand trial or end up in the brig? ^_^

Let daddy deal with the problem children first, Trudeau. You need more time.
 
E

etta

my hard graphic balls
dluu13 said:
Similar to the US, there is a Canadian isidewith page that you can use to find your political affiliation.

I did it earlier this year, and I'm split down the middle between Conservatives and Liberals. My family has typically voted Conservative, even though they never won in our riding.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, I tried it out and I am at 84% Liberal, 51% Conservative. Makes sense when I reflect back on it.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
GSG Flash said:
Nepean

Seeing a bunch of signs from both the Liberals and Cons, NDP are nowhere in sight.
Click to expand...

Hmm...if you're Ottawa West-Nepean, that's probably leaning Liberal, since Anita Vandenbeld has been campaigning hard since she lost to Baird last time, and I don't know how much help Abdi is getting from Baird's old campaign team. I've seen a lot of his signs, though, and presumably his riding association still has enough money to be competitive. Like I said, probably Liberal-leaning, but if the Conservatives hold it, it wouldn't come out of nowhere.

Just Nepean, though? That one's going to be close. A few months ago, before the Conservatives had their nomination meeting, I'd have said probable Conservative. Then one of Poilievre's old assistants, Andy Wang, went and blindsided the establishment's preferred candidate by flooding the nomination meeting with members of his Chinese megachurch, and now it's a lot less certain. I don't know anything about the Liberal candidate there, so I don't know if she has much in the way of a team (and the riding is rural enough that the NDP has no chance, which explains why they don't have an official candidate yet), but she has more of a chance against Wang than she would've against Bob Plamondon. I think Wang still wins, but it'll be a lot closer than anyone would've predicted a few months ago.
 
B

Buba Big Guns

Banned
matthewwhatever said:
Hmm...if you're Ottawa West-Nepean, that's probably leaning Liberal, since Anita Vandenbeld has been campaigning hard since she lost to Baird last time, and I don't know how much help Abdi is getting from Baird's old campaign team. I've seen a lot of his signs, though, and presumably his riding association still has enough money to be competitive. Like I said, probably Liberal-leaning, but if the Conservatives hold it, it wouldn't come out of nowhere.

Just Nepean, though? That one's going to be close. A few months ago, before the Conservatives had their nomination meeting, I'd have said probable Conservative. Then one of Poilievre's old assistants, Andy Wang, went and blindsided the establishment's preferred candidate by flooding the nomination meeting with members of his Chinese megachurch, and now it's a lot less certain. I don't know anything about the Liberal candidate there, so I don't know if she has much in the way of a team (and the riding is rural enough that the NDP has no chance, which explains why they don't have an official candidate yet), but she has more of a chance against Wang than she would've against Bob Plamondon. I think Wang still wins, but it'll be a lot closer than anyone would've predicted a few months ago.
Click to expand...

Chandra Arya is a dude btw :p

It's definitely gonna be a close race and Im trying to get everyone possible to vote. So many people here want Harper out but dont vote.

Thankfully Nepean-Carleton got split, hated being in that little twat Poilievre's riding.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Heh, like I said, I know *nothing* about Arya. My mom is in the riding too, so she's relieved to be rid of "Skippy", as she always called Poilievre. In any case, I think it's still rural and Barrhaven-y enough that the Conservatives have the advantage, but there might be enough anger there -- both from disaffected civil servants and from Conservatives who don't like how Wang won the nomination -- that it's a little less certain than it should be.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
down 2 orth said:
Be careful with polls guys, they have a funny way of pivoting in a different direction on election day. Case in point:

-The recent Greek referendum
-The recent British election
-The recent Israeli election

If you want Harper out, NDP clearly has momentum on their backs, voting for the Liberals will more than likely benefit the Conservatives.
Click to expand...

So in a riding that last election went 50% Conservative, 45% Liberal, 5% NDP, your sense is that people who want Harper out should vote NDP because strategically that's the most likely way to beat the Conservative in their riding?
 
D

diaspora

Member
down 2 orth said:
Be careful with polls guys, they have a funny way of pivoting in a different direction on election day. Case in point:

-The recent Greek referendum
-The recent British election
-The recent Israeli election

If you want Harper out, NDP clearly has momentum on their backs, voting for the Liberals will more than likely benefit the Conservatives.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I should vote for a no-name NDP candidate over McCallum. OK
 
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