gutter_trash
Banned
The BC Greens want to replace the BC NDP.
Just as the Federal NDP colluded with Stephen Harper to destroy the Federal Liberals
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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia
- Thread starter matthewwhatever
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Just as the Federal NDP colluded with Stephen Harper to destroy the Federal Liberals
Sakura
Member
If they prop the NDP up, then all it's going to do is help the NDP in further elections. Greens want to be a viable option for government.
I'd imagine the risk in either scenario is that the Green would pose a risk of alienating their many purists, which may be a bigger problem if they prop up the BC Libs. This may come back to bite them in the ass somewhere down the road sooner or later.
I don't understand how it hasn't been pushed through yet. Shit is fucked.
matthewwhatever
Member
Seriously. No party is owed anyone's vote, and saying you can just combine Party X and Party Y's votes to get a desired result ignores that it doesn't work that way. Case in point: the Conservatives didn't instantly get all the PC votes plus all the Reform votes when they merged in the 2004 election. Presumably, Green voters in BC voted Green because they, you know, wanted to support the Green Party, not because they were deluded NDP voters who didn't know what they were doing.
Yeah so they want to do whatever it takes to hurt the NDP to make themselves more viable, okay.
But the price for that is being huge hypocrits as they'd have to go against their ideology and arguably, constituents, which makes them look way more selfish than actually concerned with their ideals.
Sakura
Member
I don't think not propping up the NDP is doing whatever it takes to hurt the NDP.
gutter_trash
Banned
After reading Conservative comments on CBC.ca,
I believe 70%
I actually only learned this recently so I also believe it has to be a large number. It's not obvious at ALL. Esp if you didnt learn Canadian political history anytime...
I agree because it makes them look like huge hypcrits.
Because the federal government has no jurisdiction to pass such a law.
The other consideration in what the Greens do is their desire for PR. While allying with the NDP would carry risks of having their vote absorbed in the next election, that would not be the case if they succeed in enacting electoral reform before the next election.
killer rin
Member
Shits fucked. The only way you can notice the difference is if you pay extra attention to the last or first word of the name. Of course though in the colloquial-shortened form that everyone uses they are the exact same as the federal party equivalent.
Eg. BC Liberal Party, Ontario Liberal Party, Liberal Party of Canada
All three shortened to "Liberals"
gutter_trash
Banned
Conservative posters where complaining on CBC.ca that BC only has "leftist" parties,
Ignoring the fact that the BC Liberals are a re-branded Social Credit rural right-wing party
Could also be that they don't think the Liberals are far enough right. Anyone who uses the word "leftist" non-ironically probably holds some extreme views.
bonesmccoy
Banned
I don't think a significant number of people are actually confused by the names of provincial and federal parties.
Think of how dumb the average person is. Now realize that 50% of people are even more dumb than that
I've lived here for 8 years and only found out a few weeks ago... it's not exactly obvious
gutter_trash
Banned
This SJW girl from Nova Scotia at work didn't know the difference, didn't know that Provincial had different elections.
I've lived here for 8 years and only found out a few weeks ago... it's not exactly obvious
I knew they were separate from the start, but it really only occurred to me how different they were during the ranting in the 2015 Federal Election thread.
Not since the Social credit party anyway.
The Greens draw support from both NDP and the left leaning part of the BC Liberal coalition. This is apparent if you look at the results of Saanich North where the Green candidate took support from both other parties.
The Green policy platform shares of ideas with the NDP, but if the BC Liberals pivot left in order to work with the Greens, Weaver wouldn't really be betraying all his supporters, as it seems like a good portion are centre left supporters that were previously comfortable with a BC Liberal government.
I have to imagine Clark, who is a Federal Liberal herself, will pivot left to stay in power. I mean why wouldn't she? I wonder what the limits to her flexibility will be. At some point surely the conservative elements of this coalition will start to become unruly.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Those people don't vote
gutter_trash
Banned
LOL! I just saw Gilles Duceppe on the corner of University and Maissonneuve waiting to cross the street.
He was well dressed with sunglasses and had a condescending snobbish snooty look on his face
He was well dressed with sunglasses and had a condescending snobbish snooty look on his face
Well, my prediction was right:
Yeah because uninformed and stupid people voting would get a Clown like Trump elected, which would surely never happen
So typical Giles then.
killer rin
Member
Eh, its not over yet. Don't we still have to wait for mail-in and absentee ballots to be counted? If thats the case, its still a tight race since they have ridings like these
matthewwhatever
Member
If any federal party was really deadset on removing confusion, they could theoretically take the provincial parties to court on some kind of copyright infringement/brand confusion grounds, but there's really not much benefit to that. Canadians generally seem to be able to differentiate between federal and provincial parties, and there's not much to be gained over attacking a party in a separate jurisdiction. You'd be alienating a chunk of your party's base in the province -- and in the case of the NDP, you'd be actively going against your party's longstanding tradition of linking the federal and provincial parties.
But where are they going to go? It's not like there's a viable alternative for them to jump ship to. Maybe they convince James Moore to jump back from the private sector to turn the BC Conservatives into an electoral force, but I doubt that happens between now and the next election.
...which is kind of ironic when you think about it, since the BC interior is arguably the most fertile ground in Canada for Conservatives. Maybe they're worried that splitting away would lead to an Alberta-like situation, where going off and doing their own thing, Wildrose-style, would just lead to an NDP government?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I understand regionalism, because the lack of a property Quebec NDP base basically ruined the Federal party last time, and I also get that the Alberta NDP must be desperately trying to do everything they can to avoid being trounced in the next election when people get over the wacky experiment of voting in a "socialist" government (Ontario NDP says hi), but I wonder how an NDP voter in either province is suppose to feel about this tenuous relationship between the two provincial parties and the Federal NDP. lol
(Easy solution would be to create green jobs that are unionized!)
As much as Question Period is a circus, what's going on in the US has made me appreciate it. Trump can just hide in his office for days and give interviews to handpicked outlets like Fox News. If he was in Canada, he'd have to face a very hostile crowd grilling him day after day after day. Well, Trump would probably not attend, but you get the drift.
So you're saying he still has his face attached to his skull reasonably well.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Something something bitch eating crackers
The fundamental problem with the NDP is that their 'big tent' encompasses rural populists, labour groups, environmentalists, left-wing social justice groups, and so on. There are so many interests within the federal party and their provincial counterparts that it has become this unwieldy behemoth.
At this rate, they're better off to fracture themselves into separate federal and provincial entities...
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, but I understand sharing resources, particularly if Clark is getting support from Liberals and former Harperites based on all the campaign interviews I watched yesterday.
In federal political news Bernier still has a solid lead according to the latest poll: http://ipolitics.ca/2017/05/10/bernier-maintaining-solid-lead-in-cpc-race/
Way too many!
gutter_trash
Banned
Radio-Poubelle darling and Rebel Media colaberator, Eric Duhaime tied to translating MacronLeaks from French to English for the Alt-Right
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/2...e-puis-disculpe-par-un-militant-americain.php
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/2...e-puis-disculpe-par-un-militant-americain.php
On this last point this is the entire raison d'etre of the BC Liberal party. It's the free market coalition designed to keep democratic socialists out of government. They're very public and clear about this point. Right before the CBC election special started one of their surrogates basically said what I just stated. The only times the NDP has been elected in BC is when the right is split, so BC Conservative and Liberal supporters know that they have to have incredible discipline to stay together to keep the NDP out of government and stay in power.
I am thinking less that the Conservative wing leaves for a new party and more that unruly backbenchers could cause leadership troubles for Clark or, faced with too many unappetizing left wing policies they'd have to pass to gain Green support, they somehow encourage her to risk another quick election. It already seems like there could be a perception that Clark's ethic issues were a problem that lead to their decrease in support.
From the results it's hard to see signs of a left wing NDP/Green split, and it is easier to draw a relationship that Green support could have come from disaffected left of centre BC Liberal supporters that will never vote for the NDP for idiological/tribal reasons.
A hilarious outcome of this election and future ones could be a trend whereby the BC Greens rise up the centre, largely taking Federal Liberal support from the BC Liberals and leaving the BC political landscape with three parties like Ontario, though with the Greens occupying the Liberals spot and the BC Liberals being entirely Federal Conservatives. They'd probably change the name at that point haha.
KernelPanic
Member
Yeah we have douches like that in Canada too. Ezra Lavant is another one, also from Rebel IIRC
I have to give it to Ezra, he's realized that there were a lot more clicks and views to be had by catering to the alt-right wordwide than talking about how Rachel Notley is destroying Alberta's family farms. He's really upped the ante in terms of videos and correspondents, recruiting some of the worst people in the US, the UK and Australia to be his "bureau chiefs" (LOL). Almost all the videos are now about feminism, Islam, "free speech", (((globalism))), Antifa and Trump and they're getting a lot more views. They're well on their way to become the Breitbart of YouTube. A true canadian success story!
I wonder who's bankrolling this expansion...
Weaver has named his terms for the Greens' support (assuming the current seat totals stand):
1) Campaign finance reform banning corporate and union donations.
2) A commitment to a proportional representation electoral system (I'm not clear if this means another referendum or to just ram it through the legislature, but seeing as BC has already had two referenda on this point, I don't think they could get away with changing the process there).
3) Official party status for the Greens.
1) Campaign finance reform banning corporate and union donations.
2) A commitment to a proportional representation electoral system (I'm not clear if this means another referendum or to just ram it through the legislature, but seeing as BC has already had two referenda on this point, I don't think they could get away with changing the process there).
3) Official party status for the Greens.
Heh, I eagerly await to see how pissed Clark's corporate business base gets at the no corporate donations thing, I think she'll agree to all of these terms anyways. Assuming the seats all stay the same.
If we finally get proportional voting in BC I will probably lean being a Green voter.
He's the founder of that foul
And here's the fucked up thing... they'll both agree to it... NDP have already said they as well want these things, but Weaver will go with the Liberals cause he doesn't like Horgan ad is too pig headed to put election behind. Then Ol' Crusty will play along not actually doing anything towards the major two terms and hold off until she thinks she can win a majority.
I believe Weaver has said in respect of campaign finance that he wants it to be the first thing the legislature takes up.
It's not like it would be a complicated bill, either, so there'd be little cover to delay it (which, since the Greens and NDP have a majority, Clark wouldn't be able to do much about anyway).
The writing seems on the wall for corporate and union donations so I can see Christy Clark and the BC Liberals easily accepting this condition. Of course the NDP would be on board. Despite BC Green claims that only they can clean up BC politics the NDP have put forward a bill six times to ban corporate and union donations.
The official positions on electoral reform is that the NDP would have a referendum and campaign on the Yes side, and the Greens want to implement PR immediately, but then have a referendum after, similar to what New Zealand did. Surely the NDP has to be willing to get on board with the BC Green plan here. In the past when BC was a two party system the NDP was ambivalent toward electoral reform and PR, but now that BC is clearly moving toward having three parties, they have got to see the need for change. Honestly I think the BC Liberals would be able to do quite well under a PR system in BC but fear of the unknown is likely to make them weary of this idea.
Ultimately in the next few weeks we're going to see what the BC Greens are more interested in doing: Replacing the NDP as primary opposition to the BC Liberals, or implementing their favoured policies. If it's the former then we may see them prop up the Liberals.
I thought this article about the nature of BC Green support was very interesting. The Greens do clearly have a voter base that draws from disaffected left of centre voters that are not NDP supporters, but there is a substantial amount of supporters with a willingness to support the NDP as well.
The official positions on electoral reform is that the NDP would have a referendum and campaign on the Yes side, and the Greens want to implement PR immediately, but then have a referendum after, similar to what New Zealand did. Surely the NDP has to be willing to get on board with the BC Green plan here. In the past when BC was a two party system the NDP was ambivalent toward electoral reform and PR, but now that BC is clearly moving toward having three parties, they have got to see the need for change. Honestly I think the BC Liberals would be able to do quite well under a PR system in BC but fear of the unknown is likely to make them weary of this idea.
Ultimately in the next few weeks we're going to see what the BC Greens are more interested in doing: Replacing the NDP as primary opposition to the BC Liberals, or implementing their favoured policies. If it's the former then we may see them prop up the Liberals.
I thought this article about the nature of BC Green support was very interesting. The Greens do clearly have a voter base that draws from disaffected left of centre voters that are not NDP supporters, but there is a substantial amount of supporters with a willingness to support the NDP as well.
If Weaver's not an idiot, his main priority will be procuring electoral reform. Andrew Coyne wrote about this in the National Post recently, and it more or less mirrors my view of the matter. Displacing an established party within an FPTP system is hard, and the BC NDP isn't anywhere close to that weak right now. It's far more likely to happen that PR would allow the Greens to become the largest partner in a coalition, by removing obstacles to people contemplating voting for them.
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