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Capcom employee talks about RE4 -> PS2 on GameFAQs

DrGAKMAN

Banned
Mr_Furious said:
How the hell do you know this? Do you know how much it cost them to develop the games they did on the GC or how much Nintendo's charging them for licensing fees or manufacturing goods, not to mention the heavy cost of marketing?

Such a statement is beyond ignorant. Capcom's always been vocal about their disappointments in the sales of majority of their efforts on the GC. The RE series, PN03 and even VJ under performed and the ones that did meet sales goals took a hell of a long time and more than one price drop to get there.

Read what I wrote...not just one sentence.

And your "reasons" for why my thoughts are ignorant are lame. I dunno how much it cost to make RE remake & Zero, but I imagine that since they're alot alike, GAMECUBE is easier to make games for and the games came out relativly quickly that it didn't cost much. The cost of thier *direct ports* of RE 2, 3 & CVX couldn't have cost them much. P.N.03, VJ and thier other games for GAMECUBE...they couldn't have "broke the bank" I'm sure. RE 4 may have cost more since it's a complete overhaul, all done in real-time, looks amazing and is taking longer than thier other games so maybe that cost them, but guess what...all games on ALL platforms of this value cost alot of money to make so your point is a lil' moot there. Then you say licencing fee's? Maybe Nintendo's fee's were "higher" early on, but even when the budget GCN game structure went thru CAPCOM *still* released those cheapo direct ports at FULL PRICE, and last time I checked they're still all around that same price. CAPCOM said it was 'cos Nintendo's fee's were "too high", yet plenty of NEW budget titles were & are still being released for the platform for $20 even. And I LAUGH at your "heavy marketting" claim. The only CAPCOM games I saw advertised on TV this generation were RE: Outbreak & VJ and neither game did well...so I'd say that's CAPCOM's fault...not GAMECUBE's!
 

Insertia

Member
DrGAKMAN said:
And your "reasons" for why my thoughts are ignorant are lame.

Your thoughts are extremely ignorant. The way you attempt to rationalize the development cost borders on many levels of ignorance . :/
 
Sho Nuff said:
You know I gotta bring it

gcowned.gif

Awesome! I really wish that Sega would've used Segata Sanshiro for their American ads when they were still in the role of console maker...
 
DrGAKMAN,

I read your whole ignorant post and your even more ignorant reply. You still don't know how much time and money went into any of Capcom's efforts. REmake was completely done from scratch with a whole new engine running on new technology, it took Capcom research time to get used to developing for. Even then, RE0 was still a whole new game with differing mechanics and all new content. Sure the ports might not've been as much effort but they still cost money. BTW, I remember seeing a lot of commercial airtime for REmake and RE0 so both titles got a heavy marketing push. I don't recall him blaming Capcom's financial whoas solely on GC. Just because Capcom might also be hurting on other platforms doesn't mean it's wrong to mention they're hurting on the GC.

So, yes, it hurts Capcom to choose to support the Gamecube when the same efforts could be focused on a platform with a much larger userbase, helping to ensure more sales. RE0 and REmake would've done better on PS2 had that been their target platform from the start, just by default.

Nothing you've stated has proven to me that my reasons are "lame", even with all of your ridiculous assumptions.

BTW, you're "assuming" this PR guy is some ass from Capcom USA when someone else in this same thread mentioned he works at the Osaka office. But you go right on ahead with all of you dumbfounded assumptions. It's quite entertaining.
 
jenov4 said:
Yeah I doubt the whole age demographic of the Gamefaq forum members would understand the concept. ;)

Well, you said it, not me. :D

Anyways, Jonnyram is right. I've said it about a thousand times here, and will continue to drone on about how there is such a misconception that designers make games for the love of games and their fans. It's all about sales, or else people lose their jobs.
 

ohamsie

Member
The word exclusive is usually never defined as more than 6 months. Sony sees it this way. Microsoft sees it this way. And so does Nintendo. Having a PS2 verison out 1 year later is more than enough time to give all those Game cube owners a chance to play it long before any other hardware owner. I am a hardcore gamer and I personally can't wait 2 weeks for a gamer to go to a lower price structure (I have to have it on the day it is released) so I couldn't wait a month much less a year.


No one cares about exclusivity after six months? Well than how about throwing a few Gamecube ports our way? Devil May Cry 1-3 plz. Fuckers.
 
The only thing that comes to mind with Ben Judd trying to save company face breaks down to him and possibly his work entourage thinking "Aww Naww, The internet hates us now...but it's not OUR fault, we must explain...on GAMEFAQS!"
 

ourumov

Member
Sorry but I understand the guy. And if I have to choose between the financial illness of CAPCOM and the pleasure of a few Ninbots/Psbots/Xbots/whatever...I prefer Capcom to stay in the industry for long. I think they have been taken huge risks since the Dreamcast. Nobody can blame them.
 

AniHawk

Member
ourumov said:
Sorry but I understand the guy. And if I have to choose between the financial illness of CAPCOM and the pleasure of a few Ninbots/Psbots/Xbots/whatever...I prefer Capcom to stay in the industry for long. I think they have been taken huge risks since the Dreamcast. Nobody can blame them.

Since the Dreamcast? What about the Saturn? They were one of the last supporters for that system too.

I haven't read the post since, I don't really care to. My main question isn't screwing over userbase or anything, it's why the hell they announced it two months before the GC's release when it was a year away on the PS2. Unless I'm missing something here (and I probably am), the could have maximized their profits had they held off on announcing the PS2 version until mid-February or March or E3.
 

Jonnyram

Member
They did the exact same thing as they did with Killer 7 and Viewtiful Joe 2... you can't be surprised at the timing, no matter how baffling it may be.
 

Teddman

Member
Why did Capcom say it was NEVER coming to the PS2 a BILLION times (ahh, I love how badly people spaz out and exaggerate) and then in the end move over to PS2?

Back then no one thought it would. That was the game plan. Somewhere along the line, the production values may have slipped? Delays may have plagued the product. Maybe someone said, you can release the game as it and have it only be 80 percent done, or you can bring out a PS2 version and finish the game 100% the way you think it needs to be.
...
 

Deg

Banned
john tv said:
So sick of all the whiny crybabies upset over this announcement... get over it already!

Its true. 80% of the sales would prbably be done by the time it launches on PS2. Which will be worse technically. SC style ;)
 
Teddman said:
GameCube is getting a rushed, incomplete version of RE4? Some exclusive...

It will get a pallete swap model, maybe a short underwhelming FMV-based extra, or new weapon. Something a lot of people won't give a shit about, but everyone on the IGN GCN GB will. Why anyone cares is fuckin beyond me. This guy is totally right. The game was made on Gamecube, it will be best on Gamecube, a whole 8 months earlier on Gamecube. More possibly.

I think I remember Capcom initially saying RE and VJ exceeded expectations. Wasn't it the ports of RE2 and 3 that underperformed? Possibly RE0 too?

RE has done over a million worldwide I know that. And that was true about a year ago.
 
Capcom's paying the price for supporting GC so heavily. I still don't think RE4 PS2 will sell more than RE4 GC (that brand has been tarnished now since it's run on GC, the PS casuals have forgotten about it IMHO). I could be wrong and RE4 could be a bigger seller on PS2, but nearly a year between releases, with the latter release being slightly graphically inferior? *boggle* I could more understand a 6-month exlusivity, but 10-11? Oh well, hopefully Capcom has seen the light and will put more R&D into new SF/MM games for XBX/PS2/PSP.
 
Didn't the guy capitalize perception people. That says it all right there. They have to appease the stockholders about their future as it pertains to profitabilty. Their a public company people!

I believe the release of this info now just happens to coincidence with the fact that it will be release shortly. Capcom probably had to release this information now because, you know, the have to answer to stockholders. GET OVER IT!

Some of you people are just so fucking ignorant it's incredible. Capcom should just ignore all the people they employ and their families just to suit a bunch of fucking Nintendo crybabies. STFU already. It's called business people! The real world! Not your fantasy Zelda world.
 

Link316

Banned
AniHawk said:
My main question isn't screwing over userbase or anything, it's why the hell they announced it two months before the GC's release when it was a year away on the PS2.

alot of GCs are sold around this time of the year and some of those could've been PS2 RE fans buying it for RE4, if Capcom had kept their mouth shut all they would've done is piss off those fans when they find out that they could've saved $100+

AniHawk said:
Unless I'm missing something here (and I probably am), the could have maximized their profits had they held off on announcing the PS2 version until mid-February or March or E3.

they get just some of the money later instead of most of it now, the end result is the same cause I doubt many people would've bought both versions, it might also be more profitable for Capcom to sell more of the PS2 version cause of the higher margins
 
RE4 is gonna be on two disc, so I doubt its gonna be half assed. If with the being two disc, I doubt the PS2 version will make it out this next year.

Now that I think about it, it depends on when development started.
 
DJ Demon J said:
Capcom's paying the price for supporting GC so heavily. I still don't think RE4 PS2 will sell more than RE4 GC (that brand has been tarnished now since it's run on GC, the PS casuals have forgotten about it IMHO). I could be wrong and RE4 could be a bigger seller on PS2, but nearly a year between releases, with the latter release being slightly graphically inferior? *boggle* I could more understand a 6-month exlusivity, but 10-11? Oh well, hopefully Capcom has seen the light and will put more R&D into new SF/MM games for XBX/PS2/PSP.

Compared to the Xbox, they have supported the GC heavily. You compare the amount of titles released for PS2 and GC, RE4 is the only truely ambitious title they have developed for the console. Your just upset Capcom hasn't announced the title for the Xbox.
 

ge-man

Member
DJ Demon J said:
Capcom's paying the price for supporting GC so heavily. I still don't think RE4 PS2 will sell more than RE4 GC (that brand has been tarnished now since it's run on GC, the PS casuals have forgotten about it IMHO). I could be wrong and RE4 could be a bigger seller on PS2, but nearly a year between releases, with the latter release being slightly graphically inferior? *boggle* I could more understand a 6-month exlusivity, but 10-11? Oh well, hopefully Capcom has seen the light and will put more R&D into new SF/MM games for XBX/PS2/PSP.

The GC has hardly gotten heavy support, and the little bit it has gotten met expectations. What's killed Capcom in recent times is over enthusiastic expectations for key franchises, regardless of platform. I don't have the numbers (I'm sure jarrod or someone else does), but the last time I looked their was surprising gap between what Capcom was predicting and what they actually sold,and that includes the PS2.
 

Baron Aloha

A Shining Example
DJ Demon J said:
Capcom's paying the price for supporting GC so heavily. I still don't think RE4 PS2 will sell more than RE4 GC (that brand has been tarnished now since it's run on GC, the PS casuals have forgotten about it IMHO). I could be wrong and RE4 could be a bigger seller on PS2, but nearly a year between releases, with the latter release being slightly graphically inferior? *boggle* I could more understand a 6-month exlusivity, but 10-11? Oh well, hopefully Capcom has seen the light and will put more R&D into new SF/MM games for XBX/PS2/PSP.

Ah, DJ, so quick to point the finger at a Nintendo system. The fact is the sales of Capcom's Gamecube games have exceeded their own expectations. Meanwhile it was the sales of their PS2 and Xbox games that fell short (in some cases way short). I fail to see how their Gamecube support is much of an issue or how its caused them to "pay a price". They had certain goals in mind when they decided to support the platform and those goals were exceeded. The port to PS2 has nothing to do with Gamecube games not selling. It has everything to do with Capcom needing the money because of some non-game related issues that they have been dealing with for the past few years (realestate and whatnot). As for the RE brand, sales for the games in the series peaked with RE2 and they have been downhill ever since. That has more to do with Capcom milking the franchise with sequels and lame spinoffs (all the while not really advancing the story) than it does with moving the series to Gamecube.
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
You guys seem to think that I'm pissed about the initial announcement. I still sorta am, but I'm over the fact that it's coming to PS2...big deal, it hurts GAMECUBE, it hurts Nintendo, but oh well, Nintendo still get's the game first.

What I am way more pissed about is how this guy (wether he works in Osaka or not, he's still JUST a voice actor/PR guy) comes out at a sensitive time to quell us "GAMECUBE crybabies" with dribble. His definition of exclussive "not really being" exclussive is rediculous! Him ignoring the fact that CAPCOM (on every platform) has underperformed this generation and that they lost money due to reality problems in Japan and instead blaming it on GAMECUBE is what pisses me off. Using the "appeasing shareholders" reason is lame 'cos they could've easily appeased them by announcing this AFTER Christmas and AFTER the GAMECUBE launch...but they didn't...why...to spite Nintendo and make nice with the market leader (don't deny it). It's obvious to me that CAPCOM (the company) never wanted the games on GAMECUBE to begin with, this guy just confirms it. Him flat out saying that "supporting GAMECUBE has hurt us" is just...sick...if "support" means promiced exclussives that inevitably get ported then I say screw that. I mean, even X-BOX got a truly exclussive game (Dino Crisis) as well as equal to PS2 support with SF:AC and Genma Onimusha...come on! I mean if this "porting games will make us more money" works with PS2 and X-BOX...why not GAMECUBE? Why not give us a SF:AC, or a DMC...oh no, that doesn't work 'cos they're exclussive to everything but Nintendo systems.

You know why CAPCOM fans never migrated to GAMECUBE, 'cos they all knew that CAPCOM would come right back to thier precious PS2 in the end! If it was a truly devastating "shift in support" as they made it out to be, then thier fans would've realized that "hey, they really are on GAMECUBE" then they woulda migrated, but that never happened 'cos no one ever believed that anyone could ever give Nintendo support like that.

If I were a guy from CAPCOM I would say this:
It was upper management's decision to announce this game on PS2. Sorry, they saw money there and they went for it. I deeply appologize to GAMECUBE fans for this, but please realize that you'll get the game first, way ahead of the PS2 version and it'll likely look better on GAMECUBE 'cos it was built specifically for the platform. Again, we appologize, but we see money in a PS2 version and right now, we need that money to stay in business.

But then again, if I were CAPCOM, I woulda waited until I maximized sales of the GAMECUBE version before I talked about any ports. I would've also had Mr. Mikami appologize himself for this sudden change in plans after him being so adament of no change for so long. Problem is they probably already put a muzzle on him.

Maybe they shoulda, I dunno, decided wether it was a truly good idea to give GAMECUBE exclussives before they did. Maybe they should have, as a company, made this decision before they let some rogue producer within the company make promices they couldn't keep? But no...that makes too much sense...that would require the management to be in touch with thier employee's.
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
CJ10001, ge-man & Link316...thanks for you're REALISTIC and true posts...instead of believing in this notion that CAPCOM's suppossed "support" of the GAMECUBE is killing them. It's also a good point that the franchise (as a whole) peaked at RE2, so I doubt if the series (or should I say a promiced N64 exclussive prequel, a remake and some shitty full priced dirrect ports) would've helped CAPCOM so much if it had stayed in the PlayStation empire.
 
OG_Original Gamer said:
Your just upset Capcom hasn't announced the title for the Xbox.

:lol you wish....I haven't played an RE since RE:CV for Dreamcast, and I'm not jonesin' for a new RE anytime soon.

Also, I really love how fanboys like DrGAKMAN say "'CAPCOM's supposed support' of the GAMECUBE" now, after Capcom announces this, but months/years earlier we'd never hear the end of "The Capcom Five!" MEGATON!!!

Not that Bush needed it in this election it seems, but you guys should definitely consider careers in politics or as celebrity agents.
 
JC10001 said:
Ah, DJ, so quick to point the finger at a Nintendo system. The fact is the sales of Capcom's Gamecube games have exceeded their own expectations. Meanwhile it was the sales of their PS2 and Xbox games that fell short (in some cases way short). I fail to see how their Gamecube support is much of an issue or how its caused them to "pay a price". They had certain goals in mind when they decided to support the platform and those goals were exceeded. The port to PS2 has nothing to do with Gamecube games not selling. It has everything to do with Capcom needing the money because of some non-game related issues that they have been dealing with for the past few years (realestate and whatnot). As for the RE brand, sales for the games in the series peaked with RE2 and they have been downhill ever since. That has more to do with Capcom milking the franchise with sequels and lame spinoffs (all the while not really advancing the story) than it does with moving the series to Gamecube.

My point is, had the series never left PS2 (aside from CV on DC), and Capcom continued to build on new REs (and not remakes--and I agree that even before Code Veronica the series was starting to get whored out--RE3 should not have been made in the PS1's lifetime, IMHO), the brand value and selling power of RE would still be high and sales of PS2 RE0 and RE4 (let's pretend for a moment that neither would ever come to GC and RE stayed on PS2) would have garnered enough sales to meet whatever sales they made on GC as well as cover for the "non-game related issues that they have been dealing with for the past few years."
 

Ranger X

Member
Gakman explain to me why you care actually? Buy the fucking games you like on the console you like and that's all!! Who gives a shit about anything else really? Why would you be sensitive for Nintendo (an entity existing to make money and not cheer and please you) or anyone else?

Man this whole RE4 story is fucking lame and some gamers really need to get a life or get educated. Why do you gamers would need to actually work at a game company to actually understand who this industry works?
I was understanding all that way before i worked for Ubi Soft!
Stuff is happening all the time with making games and market them. And what's more, the RE4 situation doesn't give ANY disadvantage. You will be able to play it on your Gamecube soon. The PS2 owner will lay it later. You also have the option to wait and buy your fav version between the two, etc etc etc etc
Why complain? You gamers have even more options now and your gameplay or price or anything else that would really concern YOU will not be hurt!!!
 
First off, I really have to question anyone who claims to represent a major studio like Capcom and chooses to use the GameFAQs boards at all places to clarify a touchy subject. That's like Spielberg saying "Hey, in Jurassic Park 4, we're gonna have Jessica Alba, and she's gonna do full frontal! I'll dicuss more at the McDonald's at 6th & 15th..." But I digress....

But anyhow, I'm constantly amazed by folks who, just by virtue of following a game company's portfolio is all a sudden aware of all the intricacies when it comes to running things. Hey, I've been involved in the industry for years now, and I still know jack shit about all the financial aspects.
 
FortNinety said:
First off, I really have to question anyone who claims to represent a major studio like Capcom and chooses to use the GameFAQs boards at all places to clarify a touchy subject. That's like Spielberg saying "Hey, in Jurassic Park 4, we're gonna have Jessica Alba, and she's gonna do full frontal! I'll dicuss more at the McDonald's at 6th & 15th..." But I digress....


LOL!
 

Tellaerin

Member
DrGAKMAN said:
You guys seem to think that I'm pissed about the initial announcement. I still sorta am, but I'm over the fact that it's coming to PS2...big deal, it hurts GAMECUBE, it hurts Nintendo, but oh well, Nintendo still get's the game first.

What I am way more pissed about is how this guy (wether he works in Osaka or not, he's still JUST a voice actor/PR guy) comes out at a sensitive time to quell us "GAMECUBE crybabies" with dribble. His definition of exclussive "not really being" exclussive is rediculous! Him ignoring the fact that CAPCOM (on every platform) has underperformed this generation and that they lost money due to reality problems in Japan and instead blaming it on GAMECUBE is what pisses me off. Using the "appeasing shareholders" reason is lame 'cos they could've easily appeased them by announcing this AFTER Christmas and AFTER the GAMECUBE launch...but they didn't...why...to spite Nintendo and make nice with the market leader (don't deny it). It's obvious to me that CAPCOM (the company) never wanted the games on GAMECUBE to begin with, this guy just confirms it. Him flat out saying that "supporting GAMECUBE has hurt us" is just...sick...if "support" means promiced exclussives that inevitably get ported then I say screw that. I mean, even X-BOX got a truly exclussive game (Dino Crisis) as well as equal to PS2 support with SF:AC and Genma Onimusha...come on! I mean if this "porting games will make us more money" works with PS2 and X-BOX...why not GAMECUBE? Why not give us a SF:AC, or a DMC...oh no, that doesn't work 'cos they're exclussive to everything but Nintendo systems.

You know why CAPCOM fans never migrated to GAMECUBE, 'cos they all knew that CAPCOM would come right back to thier precious PS2 in the end! If it was a truly devastating "shift in support" as they made it out to be, then thier fans would've realized that "hey, they really are on GAMECUBE" then they woulda migrated, but that never happened 'cos no one ever believed that anyone could ever give Nintendo support like that.

If I were a guy from CAPCOM I would say this:
It was upper management's decision to announce this game on PS2. Sorry, they saw money there and they went for it. I deeply appologize to GAMECUBE fans for this, but please realize that you'll get the game first, way ahead of the PS2 version and it'll likely look better on GAMECUBE 'cos it was built specifically for the platform. Again, we appologize, but we see money in a PS2 version and right now, we need that money to stay in business.

But then again, if I were CAPCOM, I woulda waited until I maximized sales of the GAMECUBE version before I talked about any ports. I would've also had Mr. Mikami appologize himself for this sudden change in plans after him being so adament of no change for so long. Problem is they probably already put a muzzle on him.

Maybe they shoulda, I dunno, decided wether it was a truly good idea to give GAMECUBE exclussives before they did. Maybe they should have, as a company, made this decision before they let some rogue producer within the company make promices they couldn't keep? But no...that makes too much sense...that would require the management to be in touch with thier employee's.


You really need to stop for a minute and think about the things you're saying.

First off, as 'sick' as you may find it, the simple fact is that Capcom's earning less on GC-exclusive titles than they would be if the same titles were released across multiple platforms (or as PS2 exclusives, for that matter.) You see, with the exception of hardcore fans of a particular series (which are vocal but relatively small groups), most people purchase hardware based on the overall lineup of games available for that system. Despite Nintendo's efforts this generation, the Gamecube is not synonymous with 'mature-themed' games in anyone's mind, and the majority of people who purchase one do so in order to play Nintendo's own (family-oriented) titles. Meanwhile, the gamers who are interested in those more mature-themed games have purchased PS2's (and to a lesser degree, Xboxes.) While those gamers would definitely buy RE titles if they were available for the systems they own, the RE series (and a slim handful of other 'mature exclusives' like Eternal Darkness) just isn't sufficient incentive for them to go out and buy a Cube. So why should Capcom restrict development to a platform with a smaller installed userbase, thereby guaranteeing themselves a lower return per yen spent on development? That does hurt them. There's nothing 'sick' about it. Capcom's a business--they have a responsibility to turn a profit so they can keep the shareholders happy and pay their employees' salaries. They're not a non-profit charity dedicated to saving Gamecube.

Second of all, trust me when I say that the Cube's better off without 'exclusives' like Dino Crisis 3 for Xbox. :p

Third, where did you get the idea that Mikami ever had the authority to dictate which platforms Capcom would (and wouldn't) support? Regardless of anything he may have said in press conferences, you should've realized that since the man works for Capcom (as opposed to running it), he's still bound by the decisions of upper management. His position never guaranteed him any sort of final say. Sorry to disillusion you like that, but hopefully the next time someone makes a similar announcement, you'll take it with the appropriate degree of salt.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Since the PS2 version is coming out so much later if is also common sense that additional content must be added or sales will suffer for sure.

Precisely why I won't be buying RE4 on PS2 or GC. I don't want to own an incomplete game (well it'll feel incomplete to me with the PS2 extras)
 
I think Capcom will maximize the profits of Resident Evil 4 on the Gamecube, even with the annouced PS3 version. If a person has a Gamecube and they like Resident Evil, they will buy the game. Yes, this annoucement does shot down Nintendo getting extra sales based on Resident Evil 4 being exclusive, but thoer is nothing that cna Help the Gamecube at this time. Just enjoy the game, that you are getting a year earlier.
I have a feeling all the Nintendo fans ae crying becuase this annoucement hurts the Gamecube sales more then it going Multi-platform. sorry to tell you Nintendo fans but Sony has won the war, and we are about to go to next generation. Nothing will help the Gamecube sells at this time.
 

WarPig

Member
Everything in this thread is complete shit, except for Segata Sanshiro, whose supreme bad-asstitude immediately makes it the best thread of all time.

DFS.
 
Why are people so pissed off about this? It's not like Capcom is taking the game away from Gamecube owners.

And that .gif is awesome! :lol
 

ypo

Member
"Maybe someone said, you can release the game as it and have it only be 80 percent done, or you can bring out a PS2 version and finish the game 100% the way you think it needs to be."

Hahah, ooh shit. There you have it the GC version is incomplete.
 
GSG Flash said:
Precisely why I won't be buying RE4 on PS2 or GC. I don't want to own an incomplete game (well it'll feel incomplete to me with the PS2 extras)
Let me get this straight. You were going to by the GC version but because the PS2 version will have more content a year later, you're now going to buy neither? I'm going to go out on a limb and call bullshit here. Either you really don't care much about RE4 to begin with, in which case no one cares about your point, or you're going to end up buying RE4 eventually anyways. "Fans" aren't going to be able to refrain from wanting this game, regardless of the platform. Notice I said "Fans". If you aren't one then your point has always been moot.
 
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