PS2

Fun. I've picked up a few ps1 and 2 games over the last year and have of course been meaning to try them out. But I only have one old console in rotation at a time or they would take over my entertainment center. And a saturn has been residing there for quite some time, with even more games being collected over the last year.
 
I've always had a love/hate relationship with PS2. Back in the day, it was definitely more hate.

Reasons? Well:
- I had a PAL console. Sony was the last to try and offer PAL conversions with 60Hz options. For most of the PS2's lifespan, we Euro people had to suffer from slower games. As PS2 had a lot of great action games, this was bad.
- the boot sound and screen were such a disappointment after the legendary, truly iconic PS1 boot sequence. It's a small thing, yeah. But it's the first thing that greeted you when turning on the system for the first time, and for the hundreds of times after the first.
- jaggies. God, those jaggies.
- the early games offered very little in terms of evolution. Resident Evil was same ol', same ol'. Onimusha was a reskinned Resident Evil, etc.
- PS2 is the gen when gaming steered heavily towards bloat and cinematics. Devs had DVDs now, and oh, did they try and fill those as much as they could. FFX alone felt bigger than all three PS1 FFs combined.
- it was also the gen when the production value gap between AA and AAA widened massively. Everything not AAA suddenly looked very clearly cheaper and way less attractive than AAA. It was all too easy to snub very good games because they didn't look good enough. Rediscovering the PS2's library today may scratch your gaming itch for the rest of your life.
- there was simply too much to play. I wonder how many people can say they really explored the PS2's library when it was current. For a late teen like me, choice paralysis was at the highest during that gen. In retrospective, I always felt like I had not got my time's and money's worth with the PS2 - because I missed too many good games to play those everyone else was playing, and most of those were too long.
 
Do you have proof of any of these claims? The stock situation was really more due to unprecedented demand; no matter how many units they made early on they couldn't have made enough to satisfy demand. Nintendo's gonna run into a similar problem with Switch 2 starting next week.

As for them convincing retailers to stop showing off Dreamcast....you sure that wasn't simply retailers seeing that Dreamcast sales were slowing heavily in 2000 against even PS1 & N64, so them deciding to give less retail presence to Dreamcast in response to that? I don't think Sony could have literally gone to retailers and told them "Hey! Stop trying to sell our competitor's product that you purchased inventory of and need to sell to get your retail cuts!", because that would have just alienated their retail partners.

I'm a big SEGA console fan too (tho I like Saturn more than Dreamcast, FWIW), but it's time to get over blaming Sony for SEGA's demise as a console maker. That was more or less SEGA's own doing, harsh as it sounds.
Sony's launch strategy has always been the same. Artificial scarcity, observable from the PS2 onward. It gets more obvious with every successive launch. They get in the news, there are huge lines, local man punches shopper who stole his place in line, yada yada.

And no, I did not pull the Dreamcast thing out of my ass. This was reported on back in the day: yes, Sony straight up asked retailers like EB, Babbages, and others to pull Dreamcast-centric advertising with the PS2's upcoming launch (signage, placards, space in brochures, etc). Maybe the asking's not such a problem (unless there were bribes involved - and who knows) compared to the doing, but they did and that was shady and unnecessary (stop kicking him, he's already dead!).

I don't really have a hate boner for Sony. I'm playing it up a little, because I loved the Dreamcast. You're absolutely right when you say it wasn't Sony's fault. It's just a thing that happened, and there were good reasons for it.

Still, I feel like when we lost the Dreamcast, we lost something special, weird, and unique. The OG Xbox really was sort of like it, in a certain sense, and in a way it helped carry the torch. But it wasn't the same, really. Back then, I was definitely for the underdog, and favored the Xbox over Sony. Of course, there was still some bitterness there, but that didn't stop me from buying and enjoying the PS2 eventually.
 
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The PS2 was great, but...
... I still have a grudge with Sony for its underhanded marketing tactics. Intentional stock shortfalls (they still do that crap today). Also, convincing retailers to just... stop showcasing the Dreamcast...

Basically it killed the Dreamcast so we've got problems.
Sega with Dreamcast:
Throw The Towel GIF

Sony with PS2:
If He Dies Ivan Drago GIF
 
When u got ur ps2 back in 2000 and saw power on/disc tray open u fellt like u just got a piece of alien spaceship technology into ur living room :)
 
- it was also the gen when the production value gap between AA and AAA widened massively. Everything not AAA suddenly looked very clearly cheaper and way less attractive than AAA. It was all too easy to snub very good games because they didn't look good enough.
Part of this is due to an engineering defect in the PS2, I mean, only AAA productions could achieve good visuals, while on other consoles (including the PSP) mid-level games could look beautiful on the screen. To make matters worse, the generation ended and only 6 games made worthy use of the hardware, on the PS1 there was no such underutilization, on the contrary, launch games like Motor Toon Grand Prix were already making excellent use of the hardware.
 
The PS2 was great, but...
... I still have a grudge with Sony for its underhanded marketing tactics. Intentional stock shortfalls (they still do that crap today). Also, convincing retailers to just... stop showcasing the Dreamcast...

Basically it killed the Dreamcast so we've got problems.

I wouldn't even be that mad it killed Dreamcast if it didn't have such trash image quality.
 
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I love the PS2 and it's still my favorite console. I still have it hooked up through Retrotink 5 to a TV, even though I mostly play through PC emulation now days.

Got 3 different PS2s with one OG one with HD input that I use to run games (SATA adapter for a SDD) and two slims.

The sheer variety and number of games, especially if you include JP only ones, is astounding. Now days I have a soft spot for a Saturn, Dreamcast, OG Xbox and even GameCube, but PS2 comes out on top by far simply due to its amazing library.
 
To whoever is reading this: go play Digital Devil Saga.
Have it, got it brand new in shrink wrap a few months back as I already had nocturne, persona 3/4 and devil summoner 2 on that system. Well its cool premise but the damn random encounters are shit. Its more constant than any other game I have played. Its more excessive than strange journey (which i loved) or smt.

Maybe if it was on a handheld I wouldn't mind it as much. I had to put it down, shame, as I own both games now. Maybe i will go back to it eventually.
 
No doubt the games on it were glorious, though. I had a soft spot for the Dreamcast. It was just such a sunny and cheerful and weird little console. SEGA blue skies in almost every game, bright guitar riffs, generally fast frame-rates (60 fps was very unusual back then. All I knew as a kid was that Sonic Adventure seemed so fast),
Dude Dreamcast has less games at 60fps than the ps1, Sonic was 30fps
 
I would say SNES-PS1-PS2 was a divine 3 generation combo.

We are humanity's most blessed gen to have experienced this.

It is mostly downhill since then.
 
Dude Dreamcast has less games at 60fps than the ps1, Sonic was 30fps
Well, to my credit that was like more than 20 years ago. And I'm still not fool enough to believe the DC was strong enough to push 60 fps in the vast majority of games. I could have sworn Sonic Adventure was a 60 fps game, though. Not that I even know what that meant back then. Like I said, it simply looked fast. My adult mind looking back assumed that meant it must've run at 60 fps.

EDIT: Yep, must of the time Sonic Adventure ran at 30 fps, except for the menus and some exceptions here and there. I stand corrected.

It's not like I'm going to lie to you and tell you that a small-profile console running a PowerPC GPU was some sort of graphical powerhouse. But it did a lot with what it had. I will tell you that though the PS2 had sheer muscle over the DC, it took quite a while for the PS2 to match the console it had defeated. But I chalk that up to artstyle. DC games tended to favor bright, happy colors, which had to me a much greater appeal than the muted greens and browns that defined most of the PS2 library.
 
Still finding hidden gems decades after release. Very few consoles are able to do this just due to the sheer depth of the PS2's library. Just the other year we finally got an English fan translation of Boku no Natsuyasumi 2:

 
I personally like the SNES more..but yeah, the PS2 was pretty sweet..
 
Sony's launch strategy has always been the same. Artificial scarcity, observable from the PS2 onward. It gets more obvious with every successive launch. They get in the news, there are huge lines, local man punches shopper who stole his place in line, yada yada.

It's still hard to claim that's "artificial" when console supply at launch is always on the lower end, because manufacturing processes aren't mature, and there could be chip shortages. Dreamcast had supply shortages too when it launched, due to NEC primarily.

And no, I did not pull the Dreamcast thing out of my ass. This was reported on back in the day: yes, Sony straight up asked retailers like EB, Babbages, and others to pull Dreamcast-centric advertising with the PS2's upcoming launch (signage, placards, space in brochures, etc). Maybe the asking's not such a problem (unless there were bribes involved - and who knows) compared to the doing, but they did and that was shady and unnecessary (stop kicking him, he's already dead!).

At the same time though, by the time PS2 marketing was kicking up, Dreamcast was basically on its death bed in the West. Sales slowed down a lot in 2000 in spite of the software that was coming out, so even if Sony asked retailers to make room for PS2 adverts instead, it's not like retailers needed much convincing. DC wasn't moving a lot of hardware for them by late 2000, and those retailers wanted to make room for a system they knew was going to sell a lot.

The tactics you're ascribing to Sony (if they in fact did them), aren't any different from some of the things SEGA and Nintendo did prior, and they're nowhere on the level of scummy that Microsoft's tactics during the Wintel era were like. I think people are just generally describing what was viewed as corporate competition back then as "scummy behavior" based on modern perceptions.

I don't really have a hate boner for Sony. I'm playing it up a little, because I loved the Dreamcast. You're absolutely right when you say it wasn't Sony's fault. It's just a thing that happened, and there were good reasons for it.

Still, I feel like when we lost the Dreamcast, we lost something special, weird, and unique. The OG Xbox really was sort of like it, in a certain sense, and in a way it helped carry the torch. But it wasn't the same, really. Back then, I was definitely for the underdog, and favored the Xbox over Sony. Of course, there was still some bitterness there, but that didn't stop me from buying and enjoying the PS2 eventually.

Can agree with that. When SEGA folded Dreamcast, it was shocking to me at the time. Almost life-altering in a way, at least in terms of gaming. You're right there's been nothing really like SEGA since, and IMO the industry's been somewhat worst off since they stopped making consoles & arcade gaming hardware (that wasn't just PCs slapped into a cabinet).

OG Xbox is the closest thing to old-school SEGA hardware spiritually speaking, and I'd say early 360 channeled that spirit too, but after Kinect game out that type of energy was fading away from Xbox fast. Having guys like Seamus Blackley, J Allard and Peter Moore leave the division didn't help, either.

Modern Xbox is NOTHING like old-school SEGA and the way they've been phasing into being a 3P has none of the confidence, finality or clarity that SEGA did. Not to mention, SEGA gave it everything they had to save Dreamcast, whereas MS have basically abandoned Xbox Series (in terms of it being their main push) since early 2024.
 
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Well, to my credit that was like more than 20 years ago. And I'm still not fool enough to believe the DC was strong enough to push 60 fps in the vast majority of games. I could have sworn Sonic Adventure was a 60 fps game, though. Not that I even know what that meant back then. Like I said, it simply looked fast. My adult mind looking back assumed that meant it must've run at 60 fps.

EDIT: Yep, must of the time Sonic Adventure ran at 30 fps, except for the menus and some exceptions here and there. I stand corrected.

It's not like I'm going to lie to you and tell you that a small-profile console running a PowerPC GPU was some sort of graphical powerhouse. But it did a lot with what it had. I will tell you that though the PS2 had sheer muscle over the DC, it took quite a while for the PS2 to match the console it had defeated. But I chalk that up to artstyle. DC games tended to favor bright, happy colors, which had to me a much greater appeal than the muted greens and browns that defined most of the PS2 library.

I think you mean PowerVR GPU.
 
The OG fat PS2 it the greatest looking console of all time. I remember when I was in high school and Sony 1st unveiled it in 1999 in Tokyo and all the magazines reported on it. I had an issue of PSM and my buddy at the time who was a Nintendo fanboy said it was ugly and looked like a VCR, I couldn't disagree more then and now. It's timeless, it looks like a cyberpunk-anime computer from the future, still, like something out of Ghost in the Shell or Akira. Just beautiful. I wish I still had mine :messenger_loudly_crying:
 
I love the PS2 for none of the games in the pic outside of Ico and Gran Turismo 3. I still find PS2 discussion to be obnoxious to this day, do we really need to talk about GTA and Silent Hill 2 over and over again?
Stay mad.

Best console of all time in the best generation of all time.

Persona 3/4, SMT3, MGS 2/3, GT 3/4, GTA 3/VC, SA, SH 2/3, RE4, Fatal Frame 1-3, R&C, NFSU/2, Ace Combat 4/5, FFX, Katamari Damacy, God of War 1/2, Ico, SOTC, THUG, and so many more.
 
Just started playing BLACK last night, running on PCSX2 with native graphics with widescreen and 60 FPS patch. Can't believe how good it looks even at native res.
The 6th gen is the perfect balance between graphics and production cost/times imo. Games look good enough and you could get full trilogies in 6 years. Also golden age of arcade racers.
 
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Do you have proof of any of these claims? The stock situation was really more due to unprecedented demand; no matter how many units they made early on they couldn't have made enough to satisfy demand. Nintendo's gonna run into a similar problem with Switch 2 starting next week.

As for them convincing retailers to stop showing off Dreamcast....you sure that wasn't simply retailers seeing that Dreamcast sales were slowing heavily in 2000 against even PS1 & N64, so them deciding to give less retail presence to Dreamcast in response to that? I don't think Sony could have literally gone to retailers and told them "Hey! Stop trying to sell our competitor's product that you purchased inventory of and need to sell to get your retail cuts!", because that would have just alienated their retail partners.

I'm a big SEGA console fan too (tho I like Saturn more than Dreamcast, FWIW), but it's time to get over blaming Sony for SEGA's demise as a console maker. That was more or less SEGA's own doing, harsh as it sounds.

They were at it with the original Playstation certainly. There were interviews with the Digital Foundry guys when some of them were on Sega Saturn Magazine and they had devs and retailers confirm Sony execs were swanning into retailers and offering discounts on wholesale prices for preferential displays in stores. Same for publishing houses, Sony were flying journalists all over the world to trade shows, putting them up in hotels, etc. I'm sure that didn't contribute to the frankly unbelievable level of bias towards the Playstation in print and online publications though. And of course we all know how they went about securing exclusivity deal after exclusivity deal back in the day. That $ony chequebook took one hell of a pounding.

Basically I fucking loathe Sony, the Playstation brand and especially the warrior aspect of its fanbase. And yes, I'm am rather bitter!
 
something i love about PS2 is the fact they finally could make PS1 CGi in real time, and they did !

the problem about PS2 is always resolution... something they solved in PS360 generation...

take a look at how amazing and pretty, PS2 games looks running on Emulators...
That generation was miles ahead we could even imagine at time...
 
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I remember hating the PS2 at first because it got associated for causing the death of the Dreamcast, and I loved the Dreamcast's quirky library + it ushering in the next generation that felt like such a big jump.

Over time though, the PS2 library truly did situate it as still the best single console I've ever seen. Even with all the ports and remasters, the PS2 still has so many more unique titles on it that you can't find on any other device unless you emulate/recompile it.
 
Fantastic console to get into today, all you need is a component cable, a network adaptor with an HDD or SSD and FreeMcBoot. There are also wireless controllers from RetroFighters that feature analogue face buttons, allowing you to correctly play Metal Gear Solid 2 as Kojima intended. With OpenPS2Loader you can digitise your physical PS2 collection and brings much needed QOL features like ingame reset and forced progressive scan for supported games.
I still have my SCPH39000 from 2002 and whilst its a bit loud, it's still going strong.
 
Still, among a lot of other things, the best looking console to date.
I'm using it's 'theme' with my PS5... love those 'mnmnm' sounds....
 
Stay mad.

Best console of all time in the best generation of all time.

Persona 3/4, SMT3, MGS 2/3, GT 3/4, GTA 3/VC, SA, SH 2/3, RE4, Fatal Frame 1-3, R&C, NFSU/2, Ace Combat 4/5, FFX, Katamari Damacy, God of War 1/2, Ico, SOTC, THUG, and so many more.
I'm a Sonybro, I'm not getting mad over that statement.
 
Good memories

Had a phat and then a slim

My recollection of PS2 journey:
Street fighter EX3
GT3
Dark cloud
Timesplitters
Midnight club
Red faction
FFX
MGS2
GTA3
Devil may cry
GTA Vice city
Socom 2
MGS3
GTA SA
God of War
DMC 3
Shadow of the colossus
Soul caliber 3
Okami
Bully
Yakuza
God of war 2
Oh and of course - Sly Cooper 1-3

A lot of other classic games like burnout or tony hawks 3 or timesplitters 2 or splinter cell I played elsewhere that gen, others like manhunt 2 played on Wii
I never played some games like kingdom hearts or jak series or ratchet & clank that gen, took until ps3/4 for me to try.
 
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Playstation peaked with PS2. It's easily Sony's best console ever. That being said, the PS2 Slim is a fucking gimmick: You can't play FF11 on it, so it's a useless piece of shit. Fat PS2 is where it's at.
 
That era was the last time consoles had a truly unique identity.
PS2, GC and the first Xbox felt really different from each other, and all had some awesome features.
 
The OG fat PS2 it the greatest looking console of all time. I remember when I was in high school and Sony 1st unveiled it in 1999 in Tokyo and all the magazines reported on it. I had an issue of PSM and my buddy at the time who was a Nintendo fanboy said it was ugly and looked like a VCR, I couldn't disagree more then and now. It's timeless, it looks like a cyberpunk-anime computer from the future, still, like something out of Ghost in the Shell or Akira. Just beautiful. I wish I still had mine :messenger_loudly_crying:
The launch PS2 is the ideal design for a full-size game console that plays discs.
Sony hasn't been able to top it with newer consoles because it's not possible.
Instead of changing the design the best move would be to just keep it more or less the same.
 
Dreamcast had supply shortages too when it launched, due to NEC primarily.
This is the PR version of events imo.

Sega probably only ordered 150,000 units out of fear of lack of demand. They chose this conservative number because the Saturn was selling so few units each month that it was dead. When Sega realized they had sold out so quickly, they regretted not risking a larger quantity, so they used this narrative of blaming NEC, while ordering more units (which they failed to sell in a timely manner).

The goal you know was to sell over 1 million units in 90 days, but they sold less than 900,000 to make matters worse, people were asking for refunds.
at launch Dreamcast was priced at just ¥29,000 and the PS1 ¥15,000 six months after its launch, the Dreamcast would cost ¥19,900 and after March sales simply drop to almost zero. The Japanese really hated Sega back then only hatred can explain that.
units sold 2.42M from November 27, 1998 to some date of 2002.

Something profound happened to Sega at some point in 1997 I don't have the answer this requires a more scientific approach, as Sega went from being viewed fondly between 1993 and 1997 to being hated from 1997 onwards, evidently this mind change was built from the outside in.
 
Well, to my credit that was like more than 20 years ago. And I'm still not fool enough to believe the DC was strong enough to push 60 fps in the vast majority of games. I could have sworn Sonic Adventure was a 60 fps game, though. Not that I even know what that meant back then. Like I said, it simply looked fast. My adult mind looking back assumed that meant it must've run at 60 fps.

EDIT: Yep, must of the time Sonic Adventure ran at 30 fps, except for the menus and some exceptions here and there. I stand corrected.

It's not like I'm going to lie to you and tell you that a small-profile console running a PowerPC GPU was some sort of graphical powerhouse. But it did a lot with what it had. I will tell you that though the PS2 had sheer muscle over the DC, it took quite a while for the PS2 to match the console it had defeated. But I chalk that up to artstyle. DC games tended to favor bright, happy colors, which had to me a much greater appeal than the muted greens and browns that defined most of the PS2 library.

Hmmm...I'd say PS2 started matching DC's quality both in terms of visuals and game quality by mid 2001. In fact, games like GT3 were just plain ahead of any equivalent sim racer on Dreamcast by that point. Now going by the Japanese launch that'd of been well over a year 'till, but that's still early/mid '01 for a gen that lasted until at least 2005.

So I'd say PS2 managed to catch up to/exceed Dreamcast in visuals quite early. But that's just my personal opinion perhaps, and I'm only speaking in terms of technical visual features. I can see why maybe for someone who preferred the art style of a game like Sonic Adventure 2, why it maybe took a little longer to feel PS2 offered anything on that level such as when Jak & Daxtar released in late '01.

Still finding hidden gems decades after release. Very few consoles are able to do this just due to the sheer depth of the PS2's library. Just the other year we finally got an English fan translation of Boku no Natsuyasumi 2:



I should pick this game back up sometime. It's a nice little experience to chill out with.

They were at it with the original Playstation certainly. There were interviews with the Digital Foundry guys when some of them were on Sega Saturn Magazine and they had devs and retailers confirm Sony execs were swanning into retailers and offering discounts on wholesale prices for preferential displays in stores. Same for publishing houses, Sony were flying journalists all over the world to trade shows, putting them up in hotels, etc. I'm sure that didn't contribute to the frankly unbelievable level of bias towards the Playstation in print and online publications though. And of course we all know how they went about securing exclusivity deal after exclusivity deal back in the day. That $ony chequebook took one hell of a pounding.

Uh...Digital Foundry? Richard? Yes, I know Richard was a writer & editor on SSM back in the day, but in case the name wasn't obvious, the mag was very SEGA-biased and because of that (plus the Saturn's market position in general that gen), had a fanboyish slant. Nothing wrong with that: Nintendo and PS-exclusive magazines at the time also had fanboyish biases to their platforms of choice. I'm just saying using SSM interviews (that you haven't even posted images from...that would be nice to back up these claims) as a gold standard to prove underhanded Sony tactics during 5th gen isn't a strong position to stand on.

Also insofar as Sony flying out journalists...uh, SEGA and Nintendo did that as well. Maybe not to the same degree, but they provided accommodations for journalists at times so that the journalists could do interviews with staff and cover the things they wanted to show off. They'd have lounges for media at toy show and CES events prior to E3 being a thing. All big companies in gaming at the time did this to some extent, it's just the nature of doing business. Trying to call that out as the reason PS got favorable coverage over the Saturn instead of, well, the PS1 just being a better product for the market and Sony having a much better advertising & marketing team, is a reach.

Is it Sony's fault SEGA retired the SEGA Scream & Pirate TV ads in favor of klansmen parodies and bald-headed chicks voguing in front of the camera? Is it Sony's fault that SEGA rushed Saturn to America so fast they alienated KB Toys who in turn refused to carry or advertise any Saturn stock for the entirety of that generation? You have to stop blaming Sony for SEGA's mistakes with the Saturn. Things you can try accusing Sony of doing as being "unfair", like acquiring companies (SEGA acquired a SDK company prior to Sony acquiring Psygnosis for (in part) SN Systems. Also acquired Visual Concepts) or exclusivity deals (SEGA got a timed six-month exclusivity deal on Tomb Raider 1, and Nintendo did a 1-year timed exclusivity deal for SF2 back in the day), you can find examples of SEGA having done them too.

"We all know" is really more like "I want to pretend thinking", or exaggerate how much Sony did this or that vs. ignoring how SEGA and Nintendo did this and that as well.

Basically I fucking loathe Sony, the Playstation brand and especially the warrior aspect of its fanbase. And yes, I'm am rather bitter!

Well that's obvious 🤣

This is the PR version of events imo.

Sega probably only ordered 150,000 units out of fear of lack of demand. They chose this conservative number because the Saturn was selling so few units each month that it was dead. When Sega realized they had sold out so quickly, they regretted not risking a larger quantity, so they used this narrative of blaming NEC, while ordering more units (which they failed to sell in a timely manner).

Uh, well that is certainly a version of the events, for sure. Can't say I've heard it anywhere else; maybe there is some truth to it or maybe there isn't. I know the Saturn itself was quite successful in Japan (vs other parts of the world), but looking up its Japanese sales, it definitely did seem to sell the vast majority of its units between '95 and '97, as the '98 amounts were paltry.

Coincidentally, that's right after PS1 got FF VII and now looking at the '97 sales, those had a massive drop-off in Japan compared to '96, so there could be some credibility in what you're claiming. '97's also the year SEGA decided to shift hardware development over to the Dreamcast, so maybe there's credence in the idea them pushing Dreamcast in Japan for '98 was less cutting Saturn off at the legs vs. hoping to revitalize the dramatic slowdown of their console sales after 1997 because, again, the Saturn Japanese sales in ''98 are very paltry (only 150K sold the whole year), whereas '97 was 800K, and '96 was 2.3 million.

Still tho, a bit odd they'd take them undershooting demand as a means of blaming NEC for GPU shortages, because I'm sure there were at least a couple trades back in the day which corroborated the supply issues. Maybe NEC just took the PR hit? It's not like things were going perfectly fine for them by then, either (and their own console platform ventures died with the PC-FX).

The goal you know was to sell over 1 million units in 90 days, but they sold less than 900,000 to make matters worse, people were asking for refunds.
at launch Dreamcast was priced at just ¥29,000 and the PS1 ¥15,000 six months after its launch, the Dreamcast would cost ¥19,900 and after March sales simply drop to almost zero. The Japanese really hated Sega back then only hatred can explain that.
units sold 2.42M from November 27, 1998 to some date of 2002.

Well TBH, the games rollout for Dreamcast in Japan was pretty bad the first few months, and it never got "substantively" better in time before PS2 hype kicked off. VF3 had a gimped port (no 2-player option), Sonic Adventure was delayed like a month and was buggy, games like Blue Stinger just weren't impressive, and in the face of PS1 & N64 hits that came out in '99 it was just tough for Dreamcast to get a foothold.

Once Sony started publicly talking about the PS2 and showing demos off, Dreamcast's fate in Japan was already sealed, and that was months before the American launch happened.

Something profound happened to Sega at some point in 1997 I don't have the answer this requires a more scientific approach, as Sega went from being viewed fondly between 1993 and 1997 to being hated from 1997 onwards, evidently this mind change was built from the outside in.

Also TBF, SEGA hardware in general (console-wise) was never too popular in Japan outside of the Saturn, so if we're talking just that region, '94-'96 would be better time periods to say they were viewed fondly. Of course arcade-wise they've always been popular in Japan and that reached its peak with Virtua Fighter, that thing just dominated Japanese arcades for a long while.

Now that I've looked at those sales numbers, I think it's probably the same thing which happened with PC-Engine in Japan. New system from a well-known player that had a big hit(s) in a booming genre at the time (shmups for PC-Engine, 3D fighters for Saturn), that cashed in well during a transitionary period between Nintendo generations (Famicom > Super Famicom for PC-Engine, Super Famicom > N64 for Saturn). And in both cases, launched slightly earlier than their direct other rivals (MegaDrive for PC-Engine, PlayStation for Saturn), by like a week or two.

However, in both cases, they simply failed to build up a strong enough library ahead of the next Nintendo system and, in Saturn's case, against the PS1 since that would also go on to dethrone Nintendo's console in Japan (something that hadn't happened up to that point). PC-Engine sales actually fell off pretty hard once the Super Famicom came out, so it sold the bulk of its 8 million before it launched. PC-Engine also benefited from the booming '80s Japanese economy of that time.

Conversely, Saturn sales likely took a big hit in Japan in '96 due to N64 (SEGA shipped the most units that year but the huge drop-off in '97 suggests they likely overshipped vs. demand), and a massive one in '97 due both to N64 but also PS1 seeing big growth thanks to games like FFVII (though I'd argue, for sold-through it's very likely PS1 outsold the Saturn in Japan in 1996 as well). By then I'd say the honeymoon of Saturn benefiting from being the first "real" next-gen system to launch, early 3D novelty at home & VF1/VF2 home port fever, had more or less worn off. After VF2, SEGA didn't have any big games for Japan that'd appeal the same way, and that's right before Super Mario 64 and, later, FF VII came out.

As to why I'd speculate PS1 outsold Saturn in Japan in '96, well it's not like FF VII was the first big hit on PS1. In '96 they got Resident Evil and smaller-but-successful games like Parappa, and Tekken 2 also came out that year. I could argue Saturn owners who wanted another big 3D home fighter to play after VF2, took to Tekken 2 and probably bought PS1s for it (and smaller 3D fighters like Toshinden and Tobal). Also while the King's Field games probably weren't mega-sellers, they had been building up a sizable audience in Japan even by '96. The combination of all those and other games, combined with the ridiculously low Saturn numbers sold in Japan in '97, just lead me to think PS1 very likely outsold it in sold-through, even if Saturn probably had a slight sold-in lead due to the amounts shipped in '94 and '95.
 
I love the PS2 for none of the games in the pic outside of Ico and Gran Turismo 3. I still find PS2 discussion to be obnoxious to this day, do we really need to talk about GTA and Silent Hill 2 over and over again?
Until they beat it, yes.
Looks like it'll never happen.
This console was and is the GOAT. Peak Sony.
 
Uh, well that is certainly a version of the events, for sure. Can't say I've heard it anywhere else;
Few people have taken the time to analyze the Dreamcast's situation in the Japanese market in depth. Sega Lord, for example, when analyzing the launch of the Dreamcast in Japan, said, "It was a mistake to launch the Dreamcast first in the East, this killed the Saturn in its best market." He did not know that most of the Saturn's sales occurred in 1996.
Conversely, Saturn sales likely took a big hit in Japan in '96 due to N64 (SEGA shipped the most units that year but the huge drop-off in '97 suggests they likely overshipped vs. demand), and a massive one in '97 due both to N64 but also PS1 seeing big growth thanks to games like FFVII (though I'd argue, for sold-through it's very likely PS1 outsold the Saturn in Japan in 1996 as well). By then I'd say the honeymoon of Saturn benefiting from being the first "real" next-gen system to launch, early 3D novelty at home & VF1/VF2 home port fever, had more or less worn off. After VF2, SEGA didn't have any big games for Japan that'd appeal the same way, and that's right before Super Mario 64 and, later, FF VII came out.

As to why I'd speculate PS1 outsold Saturn in Japan in '96, well it's not like FF VII was the first big hit on PS1. In '96 they got Resident Evil and smaller-but-successful games like Parappa, and Tekken 2 also came out that year. I could argue Saturn owners who wanted another big 3D home fighter to play after VF2, took to Tekken 2 and probably bought PS1s for it (and smaller 3D fighters like Toshinden and Tobal). Also while the King's Field games probably weren't mega-sellers, they had been building up a sizable audience in Japan even by '96. The combination of all those and other games, combined with the ridiculously low Saturn numbers sold in Japan in '97, just lead me to think PS1 very likely outsold it in sold-through, even if Saturn probably had a slight sold-in lead due to the amounts shipped in '94 and '95.
The Sega Saturn only beat the PS1 in 1994 and 1995 (this feat is still being studied by Sega in recent times) the advantage of the PS1 over Sega Saturn was that its games sold almost a million units in Japan, games like Arc the Lad 1995, Resident Evil, Arc the Lad 2 and Tekken 2 1996. So when FF7 was released, both the N64 and Sega Saturn died. N64 never influenced the fate of Saturn or Dreamcast in Japan.

Saturn was a victim of its architecture, in March 1997 the N64 had its price cut to ¥16,800 (it was 25,000), the Playstation had been priced at ¥19,800 since June 1996 (it was ¥24,800 in March, Saturn sales boost forced it drops) while Saturn had been priced at ¥20,000 since March 1996 (its lowest price ever).

The Dreamcast may have died at birth, because of Panzer Dragoon Saga, in short Skies of Arcadia should have been a launch game on the Dreamcast, not having decided this at the conceptual stage was a fatal mistake, if you will allow me to say Sega never prioritized Japan, it always relied on selling 'technology' their idea was simple, young Japanese people will buy the Dreamcast because it's a new technology, so in 1999 or 2000 we will make the games, a big mistake mainly because 1998 was the best year for the ps1, n64 in terms of game releases.
 
I still remember bringing home that blue box and then being absolutely blown away by Final Fantasy X that following Christmas.
 
Here is my launch day PS2. As I received day one.

Got SSX, Ridge Racer V and Smugglers Run as my launch games.

R2JPd1o.jpeg
QIOTa2W.jpeg
 
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