Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Dragona Akehi said:
Google Adsense wins again :lol
Cat-GAF: The fuck is wrong with my cat?
- Thread starter victreeb3l
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Google Adsense wins again :lol
Jugendstil
Member
Dragona Akehi said:
This. I adopted an FIV positive stray from a shelter and he's perfectly healthy. The key is that he is inside permanently, and I try and feed him a healthy diet. My vet had an FIV+ cat that lived to be 17. It's just a matter of being an attentive owner.
Just get her spayed. Why subject yourself to the alternative?
At this point she might need a spay/abortion combo. I don't think that is a big/expensive deal, since they "are in there anyway".
And it would be better if she became an indoor only cat, going forward. None of the 10+ cats we've had over the years ever really begged to go out. It's interesting that your cat was so insistent. I wonder if she had already gone into heat? I know we tend to fix our cats at about the 4-month mark, but I'm not sure how long it's safe to wait.
I think if you get her spayed, and give her some time for her hormones to settle back down, she will become cool with the idea of staying inside. None of our female cats are interested in going out, even if invited.
At this point she might need a spay/abortion combo. I don't think that is a big/expensive deal, since they "are in there anyway".
And it would be better if she became an indoor only cat, going forward. None of the 10+ cats we've had over the years ever really begged to go out. It's interesting that your cat was so insistent. I wonder if she had already gone into heat? I know we tend to fix our cats at about the 4-month mark, but I'm not sure how long it's safe to wait.
I think if you get her spayed, and give her some time for her hormones to settle back down, she will become cool with the idea of staying inside. None of our female cats are interested in going out, even if invited.
victreeb3l
Member
Angry Grimace said:Google Adsense wins again :lol
:lol
Yeah.. never let your cat out if they aren't fixed.Honestly, I can't look bad on people for letting their cats become outside cats. My one cat Tamtu, there was just no way I could ever keep him inside. He'd constantly dart out the door, claw out windows, etc.. I think it was just in his blood to be an outside cat because he dad was this big bad ass black cat that roamed the streets. Our other cats are inside but there was just no keeping him inside. Though now he annoys me and always wants in and out.. spoiled cat. =p
Same here. She constantly meows, darts past doors, anything to get her out. Summer time was fine because she'd just hang out in the backyard chasing bugs and I could be there to make sure she didn't go out.
Fuck, the thought of my little kitty not a virgin kitty anymore is T_T
Koshiba said:Yeah.. never let your cat out if they aren't fixed.
WHY DOES IT MATTER IF HE WAS BLACK OR NOT?!
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't judge people that do let their cats out, but the fact that my cats WANT to go out doesn't mean I'm going to let them. They'd also rip up my couch, eat until they were little meatballs with legs and knock over all my vases and such if I let them.Alucrid said:
That's mighty nice of you. I believe it's usually recommended that a FIV cat be an only-cat? (So they don't infect another cat.) Or maybe I'm thinking of feline leukemia...Jugendstil said:
My wife works at an animal shelter. Some of the cat foster "parents" she works with have nothing but FIV cats, since they don't pose a risk to each other.
victreeb3l
Member
J-Rod said:
Yeah my moms like that. She treats her like a little human kid. "Awww you poor thing, here you go."
Neuromancer
Member
It's not a matter of being nice to your cat or not. Domestic cats are really not meant to be left outdoors and are not a natural part of the ecosystem.The Humane Society said:
Source: http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/facts/wildlife_cats.html
:lolKinitari said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't feel bad for them. They are loved and healthy and live on average significantly longer lives than outdoor cats. There's really no evidence to suggest that cats that don't get to go outside are anything you could call unhappy. If an animal not getting what it wants classifies as being "unhappy," then I guess my dog is "unhappy" too because it wants to eat until it barfs but I don't let it.J-Rod said:
The fact is, most cats appear perfectly content to stare at the wall for hours at a time.
J-Rod said:
Yes, I feel bad for my cat, who has a warm, safe place to live, guaranteed food every day, people who care about its safety, and who doesn't have to worry about threats like animal-abusing assholes, cars, other animals, and whatever else.
Over the years I've had to deal with multiple cats who either disappeared or who I saw dead in the middle of the road. I don't at all feel guilty at this point for keeping any of my cats to being indoor-only.
If you don't let them be aware of the outside, except for looking through windows, etc. most cats could really give a shit about the outdoors.J-Rod said:
We used to let my 2 year old cat go out on the porch, but he started pawing at the door and trying to get out when we came home. After a couple weeks of not letting him out, he pretty much forgot about it. I think as long as a cat is loved, paid attention to, and played with (also, I think having more than one cat is a good idea, too), then their safety is more important than their supposed "need" to go outdoors.
J-Rod said:
We only let ours on the screened-in patio and keep the door open in case she wants to come back in. It's still outdoors, and we give her a box of leaves and outside things to play with, but it's for her own protection and I think it's a good compromise.
We specifically got a breed which isn't as outdoorsy (Himalayan) because we never intended on letting her outdoors besides on the patio. She doesn't seem all that interested in going out most of the time, so she seems pretty content. Plus we play with her a lot which I think has much to do with keeping an indoors cat happy.
IDK, we live in the midwest so I have always let my cats outdoors. I don't have one at the moment, due to a dog that likes to dine on feline, but I would definitely have an indoor/outdoor cat. OTOH, if I lived in an urban jungle like Los Angeles, where I used to live, there is NO WAY I would let the cat outside.
Jugendstil
Member
Ding said:
It depends on the cat's personality, I think. The issue is you don't want them to get into fights with each other. Rough housing is fine, but if they start drawing blood you've got problems. My cat is so laid back that I think he'd be fine with a non-FIV cat as long as the other cat had an equally relaxed personality, or at least wasn't overly aggressive or territorial. At the shelter I adopted him from he had free run of several rooms with other FIV cats, and having observed him there as well as talking with the people working there, he didn't seem to have a problem with other cats. I actually saw two other cats get into a huge fight right next to him and he ignored them completely. I have friends with FIV and non-FIV cats living together and they haven't had problems.
I think you just have to have common sense when introducing them to each other and select a cat with a personality that fits with the rest of the household. Regardless of the FIV status, I would never adopt a cat (or any animal) on a whim. I waited a long time till I got the cat I have now, and I adopted him because he has an amazing disposition and I knew we would get along. I would do the same thing if and when I get a second one.
Yeah, I have a hard time getting all high and mighty, too. Mostly because when I was a kid, our cat was indoor/outdoor. I thought it was cool, and the cat seemed very happy. Litter boxes are for losers! Three things happened that changed my thinking:Angry Grimace said:
1) When my first cat (Fluffy) was 8, I discovered him, dead, on the neighbor's lawn. There was some blood. Did he fall? Did somebody shoot him with a pellet gun? Did a dog get him? Was he hit by a car and then drag himself there to die? I didn't know, but I was pretty sad and upset. None of those things could have happened if he had stayed indoors.
2) I met my wife, who is a cat person, works in the biz, and is pretty militant about the whole indoor-only concept. She explained the whole laundry list of bad things that can and do happen outdoors, and I found it pretty easy to agree.
3) I had a chance conversation with a friend of mine. He happened to mention how he hated his neighbor's cat when he was growing up. "They constantly let the damn thing outside." I didn't understand why he cared, so he explained that the cat crapped/dug everywhere in his back yard. (My friend's back yard, not the cat's back yard.) That was a light bulb moment for me. Fluffy never crapped in my back yard when I was growing up. Heck, I never saw him crap anywhere. Why? Because he'd jump the fence and (presumably) do it at the neighbor's. When you put you cat out, you are essentially encouraging it to go shit in the neighbor kid's sandbox. Not cool.
Ding said:
Same here. All our cats were outdoor mutt types growing up, and all of them had relatively short life spans because of it. I don't remember one ever dying from natural causes. They always came up missing, dead in the road or killed by another animal (and once by a person, shot it).
It's perfectly acceptable to keep a cat indoors, it doesn't make them unhappy whatsoever unless they have a lazy, inattentive owner or one who is always gone and they have no companion. Spending plenty of time playing with them and/or getting them a friend keeps them happy. Having an enclosed outdoor space they can play in is a bonus if you're able, and then of course there are breeds which are even more laid back and suited to staying indoors, like Persians.
I'm hoping our cats from now on will die of natural causes/old age instead of the traumatic things I (and they) had to experience when I was a kid. Outdoors on average they do have a shorter life span and a more grotesque/traumatic death.
Nose Master
Member
"My cat runs away and barely comes back every time we let it outside. WHAT SHOULD I DO?"
Stop letting it outside, maybe?
Stop letting it outside, maybe?
My family has had multiple cats (probably around 10 in total, more if you count the kittens we kept until we found them a home) over the past 25 years and every single one of them was an outdoor cat. None of them ever ended up in trouble beyond a few fights with other cats.
Both of the cats I personally owned were also outdoor cats and beyond one running away for a week, they never had any trouble either.
Keeping a cat indoors is not for the cat's benefit, it's for the human's.
Both of the cats I personally owned were also outdoor cats and beyond one running away for a week, they never had any trouble either.
Keeping a cat indoors is not for the cat's benefit, it's for the human's.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
xelios said:
Yeah, my wife and I adopted our cat when she was about a year from the Humane Society in NYC, she was born there and was always indoor. I've never noticed her seem unhappy about it or any desire to go outside. I just want her to have more room to go around (we have to keep her in the bedroom when we're out), but not that I would ever want her roaming around. Us staying at my in-laws for the holidays will be good enough since it's a big (but safe house), it's like a resort vacation for here. :lol The worst thing you have to do is make sure is the cat gets exercise.
My parents have a neighbor who has two very sweet outdoor/indoor cats, but I hate how they wander around in crap weather. My parents (and me when I'm there with my wife) are always letting them in (regardless of the weather). I always feel if something bad is going to happen eventually, though I will admit seeing them pop up at the front door to play is always fun.
But what if the cat was never an outdoor cat in anyway?missbreedsiddx said:
Houston3000
Member
I like indoor/outdoor cats. I've had 4 different cats since growing up (only one at a time) and three of them were outdoor cats. The one that wasn't was a stray a found a few miles away, we didn't let her out because our yard - in the house we just recently moved to - was already taken over by neighborhood cats and she would try to fight them all the time. Luckily the next cat we got, that we have now, was adopted from my neighbor who was moving and he had already been living around the block for a year or two.
It's nice because they don't need a litter box, they stay in shape, you don't need to buy them a bunch of toys, you don't need to trim their nails (assuming you don't remove them), and you don't ever have to worry about them sneaking out the door. Unfortunately you have to deal with fleas and the fact that your cat could get hit by a car or something... luckily they're pretty smart about being safe outdoors.
It's nice because they don't need a litter box, they stay in shape, you don't need to buy them a bunch of toys, you don't need to trim their nails (assuming you don't remove them), and you don't ever have to worry about them sneaking out the door. Unfortunately you have to deal with fleas and the fact that your cat could get hit by a car or something... luckily they're pretty smart about being safe outdoors.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Your personal experience is not instructive of anything other than either your luck or at best, the relative danger of your area.missbreedsiddx said:
Your conclusion, "Keeping a cat indoors is not for the cat's benefit, it's for the human's," lacks logic and I fail to see how your argument about how your cats lived supports such a conclusion. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's way off base. On what grounds would I or anyone NOT let the cat out if it was no more dangerous for the cat than otherwise? The only way I could even remotely logically support that would be to say it would be because I would be sad if my cat got eaten for a coyote's breakfast. Which I would have to say is probably more to the cat's benefit to avoid.
Angry Grimace said:
Everything you are saying is from your perspective as a human, based on your emotional attachment to your cat and your desire to not see harm come to it. You are assuming you know that a cat would rather sit inside a living room than be outside. I am also assuming that a cat would much rather be outdoors regardless of the danger, but I have the benefit of nature to back me up.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Except that cats aren't wild animals. They have been selectively bred literally thousands of years.missbreedsiddx said:
You could make the argument that humans should eat raw meat, or not wear clothes because they are animals using the same logic. There's really no context to that argument.
If you want to let your cat out, that's fine, but it's a distorted point-of-view to argue that people that don't let their cats out don't let them out as some kind of self-gratification to feed their own egos, as opposed to not wanting their cat to be turned into roadkill. Really, I just don't want my cat to get eaten or hit by a car.
You're assuming to have any clue what determines what makes a cat "happy." Actually, nature tells us that animal's number one priority is to not be dead. Hell, I'm sure my cat would "rather" I didn't spay it and let it fuck every neighborhood cat and have 9000 kittens. The fact is, I know a lot better what's good for my cat than my cat does. My cat also loses it's mind when I dangle a string in front its face.missbreedsiddx said:
You're making some ridiculous "by nature" argument, despite the fact that, by nature, "wild" animals don't live in houses and get food poured out of a bag. They are domestic animals, not wild creatures that flit in an out of my house.
Really, it's beyond ludicrious to suggest that I should just give the cat what it wants. Your idea of what makes a cat "happy" is just based on your personal beliefs, as opposed to the reality that most consciously thinking creatures don't want to be dead. You're acting like cats have the ability to reason as to what would make their lives more fulfilling. It's a cat.
Argh! Your post reminded me of something....xelios said:
Fluffy wasn't my only childhood cat. When I was in kindergarten, my teacher brought in a box 'o kittens. I was allowed to bring home two: Fluffy, and his sister Kathy.
When they were maybe 9 months old, the family jumped in the station wagon to go somewhere. We were starting to back out of the driveway when I heard a screech, and saw Kathy zip around the side of the house.
My father jumped out of the car, yelled "Stay here!", and went around the corner to check it out. He came back grim. We had run over Kathy's back, and she had pulled herself that far using only her front legs. My dad went and got a hammer from the garage, and that was the end of Kathy. He told me later she had been purring right up until the end. I don't think I could have done what he did.
Jeez, I haven't thought about that day in a long while. Shit.
Anyway, like you, I can say that none of my outdoor cats died of natural causes, either.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Ding said:
God this is horrible. Screw studying for my final anymore. I'm going home to play with my cat and make sure she is okay.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
No, what you said was, "Keeping a cat indoors is not for the cat's benefit, it's for the human's." The problem here is that your interpretation of the motives involved is beyond distorted.missbreedsiddx said:
It boils down to either this is either some kind of Jedi-Logic, or you actually believe that it's more to the human's benefit than the cat's that the cat be alive. Neither of which have merit.
I don't let my cat outside because she is EXTREMEMLY content with just roaming around indoors jumping on shit,listening to my music,playing with her scratch post or jumping on my old electronic keyboard having a fucking blast.:lol Plus a warm bed and all the good cat food and wheat grass she can eat.
My cat also likes watching Tarantino Flicks and Saturday Night Live. She loves the famous people. o_o
As for socializing, my neighbor has a bunch of kittens and a gentle bulldog and they love playing together.
My cat also likes watching Tarantino Flicks and Saturday Night Live. She loves the famous people. o_o
As for socializing, my neighbor has a bunch of kittens and a gentle bulldog and they love playing together.
My cat was born a wild cat (we found her as a kitten in our backyard). We understand that her lifespan is probably going to be less, but that's her environment. We have 2.5 acres of backyard with plenty of shelter and protection, as well as a cat door so that she can come in whenever she wants. We've given her all of her vaccines, gotten her spayed, etc. She has an RFID tag implanted in her. We also check her regularly for wounds.
My point is, I think there are a number of precautions that you can take so that having an outdoor cat isn't irresponsible, especially if your cat is more comfortable in that environment.
My point is, I think there are a number of precautions that you can take so that having an outdoor cat isn't irresponsible, especially if your cat is more comfortable in that environment.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I will listen to the argument that cats enjoy a better quality of life living outdoors. I don't necessarily agree, but it's no more my call than how people raise their children and I'll at least listen to the argument. My problem with what that poster was saying was they are using backwards logic to imply some kind of wholly selfish, borderline malevolent intent.ianp622 said:
There's nothing "wrong" or right about it either way as long as the person making the choice understands the difference.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't see how it would be a "bad" idea. 11 years old is not really geriatric in cat terms.DrFunk said:
I'm sure a cat that age is getting a little creaky, but I think a younger cat might give it a bit more energy. It's possible your 11 year old won't like the newcomer, but that's a possibility with any pairing of cats, which retain a lot of loner characteristics from wildcats.
Angry Grimace said:
I don't know about specifically cats, but I adopted an 8-month old high energy mutt to spice up my 10 year old beagle labs life. He was just lazy as fuck all the damn time, at least now he gets up to growl at the little dog sometimes. LOL. Keeps him younger it seems.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't think the argument is that you're a horrible monster if you choose to have an outdoor or indoor/outdoor cat. I think the general wisdom is that it's better for everyone involved (save the cat's curiosity) to err on the side of never letting a cat roam around outside. This is especially true in urban and suburban environments. They're prey to larger animals, they could be run over, and they can easily be a nuisance to a neighbor's property, as they are practically impossible to contain by physical barriers (I suppose you could try the shock collars, but those almost always seem to be exclusively used for dogs). They aren't dogs: if they want to get away they will, and this can be very dangerous.ianp622 said:
One could also argue that they let their dog roam free unsupervised, and that he never gets into any trouble. Fantastic! However, this isn't a good rule of thumb for a prospective dog owner to live by.
missbreedsiddx said:
Oh please, let's clear a few things up here. Keeping a cat outdoors is a perfectly acceptable choice, but your claim that not doing it is for human benefit is ludicrous. Regardless of anecdotes, outdoor cats on average have much shorter lifespans and more traumatic deaths/injuries. Protecting them from that is fully for their benefit. It's not because we will be sad, but that like most animals one of their top instincts and priorities is self-preservation. Their odds of surviving are much better indoors than out.
Also an indoor cat requires more attention (playing with them etc.) to keep them occupied and to give them exercise, so it takes more work for the human. I'm not sure how that benefits us vs. letting them outdoors, which keeps them occupied with minimal effort from you. If you don't have an indoor cat then I understand why you think they're not as happy. I've had both, both were happy. The only way an indoor cat is unhappy is if you're a workaholic and they have no companion, or you're the type of parent who sends their kid to their room because they're bothering you and you want to watch the game.
By ignoring the dangers they face outside, the evidence they have shorter lifespans on average because of them, the fact they can also be happy indoors, and the fact they're not wild animals -- they are domesticated and have not been brought up learning how to hunt for themselves or defend themselves -- you are ignoring that their desire and instinct for self-preservation is just as important, if not more, than their desire for happiness.
BattlestarDT
Banned
shidoshi said:
This is true.
Although I can't know for sure whether my cat would be just as happy being an inside after adjusting, I guess I just take the fact that she wants to go outside even when it's freezing out (we don't let her go out at night if it's too cold) or raining as evidence that she would rather have the freedom to go outside than to stay in the house her entire life.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Ultimately, the point is that I strongly doubt that cats have the mental capacity to ponder what alternative choices they could make that would make their lives more meaningful. :lolxelios said:
A cat might want to chase down birds and eat them, but can you really say it's any less exciting for them than chasing down a cricket? Are we really to believe that a cat is going to sit back at age 15 and think back on their Halcyon days? No, because they are cats. Their primary motivations are staring at things, knocking shit over and shitting.
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