Most definitely. I remember hearing a 17 million number a few enrollment periods ago.
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CBO score on Senate GOP health bill released, 22M more uninsured relative to ACA
- Thread starter Tovarisc
- Start date
Most definitely. I remember hearing a 17 million number a few enrollment periods ago.
I know I don't even know how I'll spend it all maybe a new car or I mean why stop there I'll just be pumping that $280 back into the economy.
This was about my cable, electric bill. And at the same time the top make what I get paid in a year
You bootstrapped the hell out of that math.
https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/879411199934443520
If they were off by 100% wouldn't it be 0? Not 10.3M, or what ever is real non-alt-fact number.
I honestly don't understand this, are they saying that Obamacare failed cause it covered to few, or that cbo is always wrong so we may not lose 22 million but it's okay if less people have heath insurance.
SchrodingerC
Member
As they always do, unfortunately.
Yes, but don't believe any of the hardcore conservative Senators on this. They will have no problem flipping to a Yes if need be. Heller and Collins seem like solid Nos right now and if Murkowski follows then we've got a good chance.
GOP voters don't care about policy, to them their party is a religion, they won't deviate from it and they'll defend it to their dying breath.
https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/879411199934443520
If they were off by 100% wouldn't it be 0? Not 10.3M, or what ever is real non-alt-fact number.
KernelPanic
Member
This is policy by ideology. They don't want their rich donors paying 1 cent toward other people's healthcare, social security education etc. Don't matter who dies.
Think of all the extra yachts they could buy.
They've done studies. 70% of the time, it works every time.
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
So if the CBO is 100% off again, we can expect anywhere from 11-44 million to lose insurance? I'm not sure what point's being made.
TheLaughingStock
Member
https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/879411199934443520
If they were off by 100% wouldn't it be 0? Not 10.3M, or what ever is real non-alt-fact number.
Yeah it's strange they used 23M as the new number vs. original.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/879411199934443520
If they were off by 100% wouldn't it be 0? Not 10.3M, or what ever is real non-alt-fact number.
How can the white house - and this is the official twitter - say this shit?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
The bill will pass when they vote, 100% certain.
"Is this better than keeping Obamacare? After all these years, we can repeal and replace it with something better, or keep Obamacare. You are either voting to replace Obamacare, or voting to keep Obamacare."
Done, all Republicans will vote for it, especially Cruz and Paul, otherwise Trump will harass them for being the ones that kept Obamacare in place.
"Is this better than keeping Obamacare? After all these years, we can repeal and replace it with something better, or keep Obamacare. You are either voting to replace Obamacare, or voting to keep Obamacare."
Done, all Republicans will vote for it, especially Cruz and Paul, otherwise Trump will harass them for being the ones that kept Obamacare in place.
TestOfTide
Banned
Except that's not what some key Senators are thinking.
Murkowski, Collins, and Heller, are all explicitly saying that voting for this bill is political suicide because of medicaid beneficiaries in their states.
Rand, Lee, and Cruz are trying to have their cake and eat it too because they also know that this bill is so bad that each of them would suddenly become vulnerable in the general election or even the primaries if they voted for this bill, but rather than admit to why its bad they are claiming it doesn't go far enough so that they can claim they voted against it from the right.
Johnson sees it as political suicide too, even though he wouldn't even face reelection until 2022. This bill is so fucking toxic that Johnson has come up with bullshit excuse about how he won't vote to allow debate because the process is happening too fast.
Like this isn't some disconnected shit like voting for Trump cabinet members which will indirectly do shit. This is voting for a bill that will DIRECTLY fuck with million's of people's healthcare negatively.
In fact I'm pretty sure that the only reason McCain is still gonna vote for it is because after this term he is retiring from politics so he doesn't give a shit about anything to do with winning any elections ever again.
This. Just like the House bill when we thought it was dead they brought it back and made it worse and THEN it passed. Republicans are going to fall in line. Their logic to their base will be "Dying is a good thing and this bill will allow you to die and see God even faster!" and they will eat that shit up and vote these same people in again.
Laevateinn
Member
I'm not defending this but what I'm guessing what they are doing is saying that 23m is more than 100 % away from the 10.3m people they are citing, which is probably just people on the Medicaid expansion -- a fucking huge number alone. This completely disregards how successful the marketplace and incentives are to get the rest of the people who are aided by the ACA.
Anyway, this is uncharacteristically bad messaging. It's pretty surprising.
neurosisxeno
Member
Actually it's pretty spot on for the Trump Administration...
It's intentional. The goal is to devalue the view of the CBO score and saying it's 100% off is one of things that people can technically justify like you did. It's one of those contextless points that will be parroted around anytime someone brings up the CBO score even and then the conversation will turn to if the CBO score is worthwhile instead of the actual criticism.
Scarecrow
Member
"RNC wants to create 22mil job openings!"
David H Wong
Banned
What in the hell have you been reading that suggests 22 million people will die? Are you assuming that not having health insurance is instant death for a human being?
This is a terrible bill (it offers no reforms, all of the savings go to unrelated tax cuts) but ridiculous misinformation makes us look uninformed, like we're angry based on fake news. The reality is we actually have no clue how many people die from lack of health insurance, since a lack of insurance doesn't necessarily mean lack of care (you can't be turned away from emergency care, for example):
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/03/myth-diagnosis/307905/
And studies can't find that providing people with Medicaid actually gives them better health outcomes at all:
http://theweek.com/articles/678815/medicaid-terrible-republicans-fix
Insurance is great and lack of coverage is terrifying (medical bankruptcy = bad) but aren't we supposed to be the side that believes in science, data and education, instead of superstition and bullshit? Then let's hold ourselves to that higher standard.
balladofwindfishes
Member
They couldn't hold a vote before it came out
IggyChooChoo
Member
In case anyone wants to read a response to that Oregon Medicaid study that purportedly shows no benefits from the program: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-05-17/oregon-s-radical-health-overhaul-blazes-new-trail
I love watching the news and them asterisking that the dems have a bunch of healthcare bills out in such a minor manor that you almost forget that they're doing anything. Dems really need to advertise their fucking plans even if there's no chance they'll make it out of committee.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Orbis Tabula
Member
Lol, the second article reads so ridiculous.
KarneeKarnay
Member
I don't understand their criticism of the CBO.
They were off by 18 million.
So wouldn't you design the new Health Care Act to cover them? Nope. You make it even worse.
Can't we just arrest these pricks?
They were off by 18 million.
So wouldn't you design the new Health Care Act to cover them? Nope. You make it even worse.
Can't we just arrest these pricks?
We SHOULD be human beings and show human compassion to one another. Trying to crunch numbers if having health insurance actually keeps people healthy or not (give me a freaking break with that nonsense) shouldn't be a thought process of a human with a smidge of empathy and compassion. Helping sick humans, getting meds to those who desperately need them, these things shouldn't be walled behind discussions of tax cuts or disingenuous arguments of "well maybe all 22 million won't die from not having insurance". What's an acceptable number exactly?
Grizzle_Dat
Banned
So I'm a bit confused.
The 22M more people uninsured with the GOP plan are people that are choosing not to have healthcare after the mandate to have insurance is removed right ?
The 22M more people uninsured with the GOP plan are people that are choosing not to have healthcare after the mandate to have insurance is removed right ?
I imagine a lot of them are people who lose coverage as medicare gets shredded.
Not all. It's a combination of young people who will think they're invincible and don't need to pay health insurance, 4 million are going to be losses to employment plans, and the rest will be people who will no longer to be able to afford health insurance, either because they won't be receiving enough in subsidies anymore or they're over 60 and their premiums have gone from an average of 6k a year to 20k a year.
I think I can make the bold claim that the GOP's "healthcare" plan will kill far more Americans than ISIS could ever dream of doing.
Greigor The Fellhand
Member
Call your senators tell them to VOTE NO on the BRCA
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Tried calling my senator Rob Portman today to tell him to vote NO on the BRCA.
his DC line is full
His Cbus line is either busy or off the hook
his Cincinnati line is either busy or off the hook
His cleveland line is full
his toledo line is full
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Tried calling my senator Rob Portman today to tell him to vote NO on the BRCA.
his DC line is full
His Cbus line is either busy or off the hook
his Cincinnati line is either busy or off the hook
His cleveland line is full
his toledo line is full
Im sorry but the first article is absurd. They literally say that uninsured people get treated better because doctors can charge market prices (and proceed to not get paid at all?????). That is a fucking crazy theory that has no backing. It does find a massive drop in depression and coverage for catastrophic events. Long term blood pressure, sugar and cholesterol I think is debatable.
https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/879411199934443520
If they were off by 100% wouldn't it be 0? Not 10.3M, or what ever is real non-alt-fact number.
So even going by their probably underrepresented number, this plan will at its "best" only kill 10.3 million people?
What a bargain!
Thank you!
If even 1% of that 22 million dies as a result of having no insurance, that alone is almost 10 times the death toll of 9/11.
Mind-boggling.
No. Not kill. There's plenty to legitimately complain about with this bill. Let's not pretend that every single person who loses insurance will die as a direct result.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Oh okay, only a couple million will die, pfft, big deal
Dreams-Visions
Member
https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/879411199934443520
If they were off by 100% wouldn't it be 0? Not 10.3M, or what ever is real non-alt-fact number.
I would assume the CBO's estimate included states in which GOP Governors eventually refused to participate in the program.
It is a big deal. But that doesn't mean we can just round up to make it sound even scarier. Facts matter and it's important to get them right.
No one thinks 22 million American's are going to drop dead the moment they lose insurance and that's not the fucking point. The point is GOP hubris, greed and disdain are going to hurt and kill a lot of fucking people just to save some fucking money. They are quite literally trying to see just how far they can screw America and get away with it.
HarryHengst
Member
That second article, hahahaha.
Apparently, what is needed is for people to shop prudently for healthcare! Oh my, im having a hearth attack! Let me google what the cheapest hospital is in a 50 mile region and call them!
Another brilliant plan: let people set up a savings account for emergency costs, tax free because the government is nice! Oh no, i broke my leg and had to spend a hundred million billion dollars to get it fixed because i am poor and lack insurance, i guess i better not have something for the next 40 years so i have time to save some money!
Amazing. Im glad you posted that article because it was hilarious (and sad).
The only fact that matters is that the GOP is just plain evil. At least 18th century French people knew how to deal with such villains, but i guess its lost on current Americans.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Unfortunately, it's more complex than that.
It's important to remember what one of the goals of the ACA was.
10.3 million people will pay out of pocket, go into debt, potentially raising poverty levels, or only go to doctors when things escalate to the point of needing to go to the emergency room, rather than receiving preventative care. A portion of the population will be sicker, and medical care will become more expensive for everyone due to those who cannot pay needing expensive procedures rather than cheaper preventative care.
That was 8 years ago though. You have to look at information from sources such as the CBO or Kaiser to see how things will change today and what's at risk.
The only hope in all of this is that many of the healthcare systems in the country are moving to programs like population-based healthcare regardless of government regulation. Very similar to the market-based forces that are pushing us toward renewable energy, the governmental investment and incentive programs from the last 8 years have kickstarted such movements, and the momentum is already heading in that direction. It might just be much slower and not work as well with less insured in the population.
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