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[TyrantII]

I don't know either. I'm not an expert that can or will analyze the entirety of the economic impacts.

I just know that it's too expensive and getting worse by the year. I'm willing to give another strategy a go after seeing Obamacare's performance in this arena.

You want more cost controls and possibly universal care.

The GOPs plan had always been the opposite. Their plan is you are on your own.

Good luck.

 

[faisal233]

No, they won't. The state lines thing is such a bullshit argument. Those insurance companies have to negotiate with individual healthcare systems in each individual state. It's not as simple as opening an office in another state and saying "Hey, buy my healthcare!". Even the largest health insurance companies have a hard time dealing with this never mind the smaller ones.

But it will make him feel better buying cheap insurance that no one will accept in a 1000 mile radius.

 

[Branduil]

The ACA actually slowed them down faster than any other piece of legislation in history. This would increase them faster than any other piece of legislation in history.

But the important thing is it would be a change, and that's all that matters.

 

[diablos991]

Don't mean to argue as you are definitely in a different situation than I am (I'm single), but the quoted seems off to me. You save $350 a month if you do the wellness screening? My firm I believe it's $500 for the year. $4200 in saying for the wellness screening is crazy. My colleagues get a discount when their wives do the screening as well but total savings are at best $1000 annually. Interesting if true, in so far as I wouldn't mind such savings on my end.

We actually get the large discount because we are healthy. My wife says some don't get as large of a discount because they fail their 5 point safety inspection.

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20160516/NEWS/160519913

The new rules, which go into effect Jan. 1, allow companies to offer a maximum incentive of up to 30% of the total cost of self-only coverage. The limit applies individually to employees and their spouses, so a couple could receive 60% of the cost of self-only coverage if they both participate.

According to that article the discounts can be pretty huge.

You do know that insurance prices got worse by the year every year even before ACA right? This plan doesn't seem to do anything to actually lower the prices either.

We've been heading towards this train wreck for a while. I know Obamacare didn't derail us to safety. So why support it instead of trying something new?

I don't want the slow train wreck. I want to avoid the train wreck and I'm willing to take risks to get there.

 

[greepoman]

I don't know either. I'm not an expert that can or will analyze the entirety of the economic impacts.

I just know that it's too expensive and getting worse by the year. I'm willing to give another strategy a go after seeing Obamacare's performance in this arena.

That's not an unreasonable statement but you kind of took the long way to get there.

It's just that they admit there's going to be millions less people paying into the system, but you still can't deny coverage. A 30% penalty isn't going to make up gap. So I guess they're just hoping sick people opt out or are priced out or put in a different group? So best case your premiums are better when you're healthy but you're screwed if your sick.


As people stated across state lines has been tried, but maybe the government will provide some magic solution and are just keeping it secret?

 

[neurosisxeno]

As people stated across state lines has been tries, but maybe the government will provide some magic solution and are just keeping it secret?

It's been tried in the sense that 3 states currently allow it, but it has never been done because it's a logistical nightmare for Insurance Companies. They have to meet with thousands of doctors and setup a network and then employ hundreds or thousands of people in the state to handle the administrative work. It's also funny because it's literally advocating for monopolies. Saying you want large insurance companies to operate across multiple states means we'll end up with a divided nation where each region has only 1 major insurance provider.

 

[Socivol]

We actually get the large discount because we are healthy. My wife says some don't get as large of a discount because they fail their 5 point safety inspection.

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20160516/NEWS/160519913



According to that article the discounts can be pretty huge.



We've been heading towards this train wreck for a while. I know Obamacare didn't derail us to safety. So why support it instead of trying something new?

I don't want the slow train wreck. I want to avoid the train wreck and I'm willing to take risks to get there.

Something new does not = something better. This is arguably worse for almost everyone except the ultra rich and insurance companies. This isn't going to slow anything down and with 17 million people losing coverage in a year will most certainly RAISE prices in the short term.

 

[Black Mamba]

Said plan is $1,000ish per month before discounts from doing physicals and the like.

Corporate subsidized insurance isn't what it used to be.
If that cost goes down, or even goes up less drastically than it would have under Obamacare, then this plan will be a success in my book.

Uhhhh, Obamacare doesn't deal that much with your insurance.

And this new plan won't do much to it, either.


What you seem to be confused about is this. The ACA and now the AHCA mostly deal with nongroup insurance. Not employer insurance. When you hear about premiums, these aren't employer sponsored ones.

Now before you try to argue that if premiums go down for one, then so true the other. Wrong. Premiums for employer insurance and nongroup or individual insurance are not related to each other in any way. Insurance companies treat them separately.

I don't know either. I'm not an expert that can or will analyze the entirety of the economic impacts.

I just know that it's too expensive and getting worse by the year. I'm willing to give another strategy a go after seeing Obamacare's performance in this arena.

Obamacare isn't the employer market. It's medicaid + individual insurance. This new law does almost nothing to employer insurance unless you have HSA. Which you don't.

The only affect it might have is increase your premiums and reduce your networks even further. Or raise deductibles. Or all of the above. It won't lower employer insurance prices at all.


LET ME REPEAT:

Obamacare does not deal heavily with employer sponsored insurance. It possibly lowered some costs but that's about it. Your employer insurance would either be unaffected or made worse by the AHCA. There's no silver lining.

 

[KHarvey16]

We've been heading towards this train wreck for a while. I know Obamacare didn't derail us to safety. So why support it instead of trying something new?

I don't want the slow train wreck. I want to avoid the train wreck and I'm willing to take risks to get there.

How about providing every citizen with an arsenic pill to use in case they get sick, making sure they won't become a burden?

Or is "new" not actually the only important aspect?

 

[faisal233]

But the important thing is it would be a change, and that's all that matters.

I can't for the life of me understand why people will vote to fuck themselves over. I have 0 skin in this game. I'm covered for free for life by the VA, my family and I are also covered by tricare for life ($900 a year premiums, $300 deductible, $3000 max out of pocket).

We will never use employer insurance because they can't beat what the DOD and VA offers, and low tax with shit insurance for everybody else would be a net gain for us. We would rather pay higher taxes than see millions of people get fucked over. A healthy population is good for our economy and indirectly benefits all of us.

 

[Beer Monkey]

LET ME REPEAT:

Obamacare does not deal heavily with employer sponsored insurance. It possibly lowered some costs but that's about it. Your employer insurance would either be unaffected or made worse by the AHCA. There's no silver lining.

Yeah, my contribution to my employer provided insurance has gone up only about two to three percent a year over the last few years!

 

[Socivol]

I can't for the life of me understand why people will vote to fuck themselves over. I have 0 skin in this game. I'm covered for free for life by the VA, my family and I are also covered by tricare for life ($900 a year premiums, $300 deductible, $3000 max out of pocket).

We will never use employer insurance because they can't beat what the DOD and VA offers, and low tax with shit insurance for everybody else would be a net gain for us. We would rather pay higher taxes than see millions of people get fucked over. A healthy population is good for our economy and indirectly benefits all of us.

Ugh I miss having Tricare when I was younger and my dad was in the Army. My friend just got out on a medical disability and he couldn't believe how much civilians pay for insurance.

 

[pigeon]

We actually get the large discount because we are healthy. My wife says some don't get as large of a discount because they fail their 5 point safety inspection.

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20160516/NEWS/160519913



According to that article the discounts can be pretty huge.



We've been heading towards this train wreck for a while. I know Obamacare didn't derail us to safety. So why support it instead of trying something new?

I don't want the slow train wreck. I want to avoid the train wreck and I'm willing to take risks to get there.

That's not how trains work

 

[faisal233]

Ugh I miss having Tricare when I was younger and my dad was in the Army. My friend just got out on a medical disability and he couldn't believe how much civilians pay for insurance.

My dad's premiums (and deductible) at 64 is eye popping with ACA subsidies. I'm glad he will turn 65 before this shit show takes hold, but I also now a lot of people that will get completely fucked.

Just think, if Joe Lieberman didn't single handily have Medicare buyin for over 55 stripped from the ACA, we probably wouldn't be having this debate right now. And those old fucker might not have voted Trump over some pie in the sky promise.

 

[Foffy]

Not sure if it's been posted, but Keith Olbermann posted a pretty damn hard video on the topic.

 

[TylerD]

Yeah, my contribution to my employer provided insurance has gone up only about two to three percent a year over the last few years!

Less than 2% for me. Non group really needs something better and Trumpcare ain't it

 

[Black Mamba]

Dear Diablos:

While dismissing CBO’s analysis, Republicans have pointed to one of its numbers: that average individual market premiums will fall by 10 percent by 2026. In doing so, they apparently misunderstood what the report says would happen to the individual market and to low- and moderate-income people, most of whom would pay more in premiums for skimpier health insurance that charges substantially higher deductibles and co-payments.

Millions will pay substantially higher premiums due to large cuts in tax credits that outweigh the slight decrease in average premiums. The premium decrease that Republicans are citing is the average change in the sticker price of health insurance, without accounting for the House plan’s large reductions in tax credits. In fact, CBO and the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) “estimate that the average subsidy [for subsidized enrollees] under the legislation would be by 2026 about 50 percent of the average subsidy under current law.” That means consumers will pay a considerably greater share of total premium costs than under current law — so even if average premiums fall, what many people actually pay will rise. CBO provides an example of a 40-year-old with an income of $26,500. That consumer could buy a health plan in 2026 with a sticker price somewhat less than under current law, but would have to pay $700 more in premiums, taking into account the large cut in tax credits.

Despite promises by President Trump and others, deductibles and other cost-sharing would rise substantially — further increasing how much families pay out of pocket. The comparison of average overall premiums ignores the fact that insurance coverage would be much skimpier in 2026 — with the average “actuarial value” (the share of a person’s health costs that a plan covers) dropping sharply. So, even as average premiums fall, out-of-pocket costs would rise, as CBO explains: “Because of plans’ lower average actuarial values, CBO and JCT expect that individuals’ cost-sharing payments, including deductibles, in the non-group market would tend to be higher than those anticipated under current law.” That violates President Trump’s specific promise earlier this year that his repeal plan would bring “much lower deductibles.” CBO provides the example of people with incomes between 150 and 200 percent of the poverty level, for whom the value of a typical plan would drop by 25 percent — which could translate into a deductible increase of more than $2,500 — but notes that the value of coverage would fall at higher incomes as well.

The drop in average premiums occurs partly because older adults are likelier to lose coverage because they can no longer afford it, removing them from the average. Average premiums would rise 20 to 25 percent for 64-year-olds, while dropping 20 to 25 percent for 21-year-olds, CBO estimates. Unsurprisingly, older people would be the most likely to find individual market coverage unaffordable. “A larger share of enrollees in the non-group market,” CBO concludes, “would be younger people and a smaller share would be older people.” That fact alone will reduce average premiums because older people have higher health costs and premiums than younger people. In other words, if a 64-year-old drops out of the market altogether because he can’t afford to pay for insurance, that lowers the average premium in the individual market since he no longer appears in the calculations.

http://www.cbpp.org/blog/cbo-millions-would-pay-more-for-less-under-house-gop-health-plan

Translation: Your premiums may go down, but the amount you pay will go up. Your deductibles will go up. Your co-payments will go up. Your plans will be worse.

Enjoy your turd sandwich.

 

[Baki]

It saves 300 billion over 10 years. Which lets be real. Isn't shit. Especially with so many people losing coverage.

Same as the amount of money USA has pledged to give Israel over the next 10 years.

If they can pledge that kind of moolah to a foreign entity. Why can't they pledge that much to keep 24 million of their people healthy?

 

[Raitosaito]

I don't know either. I'm not an expert that can or will analyze the entirety of the economic impacts.

I just know that it's too expensive and getting worse by the year. I'm willing to give another strategy a go after seeing Obamacare's performance in this arena.

You want heavily subsidized health care or a single payer system.

The GOP wants to make it even more expensive than what you even think about the price now.

 

[faisal233]

Same as the amount of money USA has pledged to give Israel over the next 10 years.

If they can pledge that kind of moolah to a foreign entity. Why can't they pledge that much to keep 24 million of their people healthy?

Israel needs the help for buying weapons since they have to pay for single payer for their citizenry.

 

[greepoman]

I can't for the life of me understand why people will vote to fuck themselves over.

I love how Socrates saw this issue of democracy back in his time and described the problem of a doctor (ironically) trying to explain how why he might need to hurt you to help you vs a smooth talking sweet vendor saying "this guy says he has to hurt you and you can't eat what you want... I'll let you eat whatever". Socrates realized how tough it is for the doctor to reply effectively to the lay person. Thus why we tend to elect smooth talking sweet shop owners and not many doctors.

The truth is healthcare is complicated, but people want simple answers. Trump speaks in very simple answers.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

We've been heading towards this train wreck for a while. I know Obamacare didn't derail us to safety. So why support it instead of trying something new?

I don't want the slow train wreck. I want to avoid the train wreck and I'm willing to take risks to get there.

Anyone who knows anything about the Republicans currently in office knows that "trying something new" would end up being worse for everyone but the rich. This was pretty common knowledge that this was going to be a disaster from day one, but it's actually far worse than most people expected.

 

[Osiris397]

43,000+ people a year DEAD under TrumpCARE which basically leaves millions in the dust in the same way a straight repeal would.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Israel needs the help for buying weapons since they have to pay for single payer for their citizenry.

Funny thing, Conservatives love Israel, but should really hate them for their healthcare solution. Especially the fact that their government pays for up to 2 abortions for any women serving their mandated service. That's right, Israel subsidizes abortions using taxpayer dollars. Suck on that Conservatives.

 

[TyrantII]

I don't want the slow train wreck. I want to avoid the train wreck and I'm willing to take risks to get there.

You're the guy that puts out the grease fire on his stove by throwing some gasoline on it, aren't you?


Good thing something was done.

 

[Punchy4486]

I don't want the slow train wreck. I want to avoid the train wreck and I'm willing to take risks to get there.

In this example, the Republicans are proposing we speed the train up and maybe we can jump over the wreck.

And you think that's better then trying to slow the train down because it's a "new idea".

 

[A Serious Man]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-repeal-conservatives-236018

If only there was a recent meme to summarize this kind of logic...

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Funny thing, Conservatives love Israel, but should really hate them for their healthcare solution. Especially the fact that their government pays for up to 2 abortions for any women serving their mandated service. That's right, Israel subsidizes abortions using taxpayer dollars. Suck on that Conservatives.

Lol cucked

 

[maximum360]

If only there was a recent meme to summarize this kind of logic...

Susan Collins..

"Nobody likes the bill. I don't like it either. That's why I think it's so good. The far left doesn't like it. The far right doesn't like it. The middle doesn't like it. It's called compromise," said Collins, the New York Republican. "I think that's what makes it a good compromise."

No Susan. If no one like it that means it's a bad bill.

It sounds like the guy on NPR this morning making the case that through the new health care plan less money apportioned towards medicaid in California will lead to greater medical and dental care for young kids [through medicaid]. How does that work?

 

[neurosisxeno]

You're the guy that puts out the grease fire on his stove by throwing some gasoline on it, aren't you?

Classic Diablos.

 

[Steel]

You're the guy that puts out the grease fire on his stove by throwing some gasoline on it, aren't you?


Good thing something was done.

Well, you see, if you dump gasoline a grease fire, it makes the fire more likely to set off your smoke alarm, meaning that the fire fighters will come by sooner to put out the fire all over your house. And we all know that fire fighters are the best people to put out fires. Accelerationism!

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Susan Collins..



No Susan. If no one like it that means it's a bad bill.

It sounds like the guy on NPR this morning making the case that through the new health care plan less money apportioned towards medicaid in California will lead to greater medical and dental care for young kids [through medicaid]. How does that work?

?

Susan Collins isn't a New York Republican.

 

[pigeon]

Susan Collins..



No Susan. If no one like it that means it's a bad bill.

It sounds like the guy on NPR this morning making the case that through the new health care plan less money apportioned towards medicaid in California will lead to greater medical and dental care for young kids [through medicaid]. How does that work?

FYI that's not Susan Collins. That's a NY rep also named Collins. But he does suck.

 

[AusRoachman]

The Great Republican Insurance Plan (or R.I.P for short)

 

[pigeon]

Funny thing, Conservatives love Israel, but should really hate them for their healthcare solution. Especially the fact that their government pays for up to 2 abortions for any women serving their mandated service. That's right, Israel subsidizes abortions using taxpayer dollars. Suck on that Conservatives.

Huh. Technically that means our foreign aid to Israel pays for abortions.

 

[Byakuya769]

Dear Diablos:


http://www.cbpp.org/blog/cbo-millions-would-pay-more-for-less-under-house-gop-health-plan

Translation: Your premiums may go down, but the amount you pay will go up. Your deductibles will go up. Your co-payments will go up. Your plans will be worse.

Enjoy your turd sandwich.

Look, the egg salad sandwich I left out was on a one way trainride to rancid and was going to make me sick. Eating a shit sandwich might give me the gut fauna I need, something different. Ya know? Shake it up.

 

[GK86]

.

 

[aspiegamer]

Anyone going to ask Trump why the CBO report shouldn't be trusted @ 24M but the White House predicted 26? What kind of bullshit numbers are they trying to put out? You under sell the potential consequences if you want to discredit a report, not over. Were they expecting 40M+ or something? That's even more horrifying. "It's not to be trusted. We thought it'd be about as bad in our research, so in actuality we were anticipating it would be far more people" is... scary.

.

That tens if not hundreds of thousands of people who bought that damn hat will personally lose their health insurance starting even next year as a result of this is 1) not surprising, 2) depressing.

 

[Macam]

Multiple states allow this and even the ACA has a procedure for setting it up. Guess how many companies and states do it.

Three states: Georgia, Maine, and Wyoming
Zero companies.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

This whole "willing to try something new" doesn't fly when everyone keeps telling you that it's going to be worse. You don't try something worse and hoping it would give better results.

In fact this was the exact same thing people said with Trump, "you don't know what you'll get". No! There are people who knows exactly what you'll get! This isn't an unknown entity.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Sucks reading that report.

I'm always amazed at how some people can casually accept this, throwing around 24 million off insurance so their premium can go down and how they can accept this argument in the first place. I mean, why stop at 24 million, why not 58 million? Or a hundred million? Or why not just save a nickel for each person and kick a thousand people off?

These people don't even understand their damn predicament. Like this one guy I work with bitching about it because his wife and daughter need lots of care, since our company's pooled together doesn't he realize that I'm paying for his wife and daughter essentially since I don't go to the doctor? Should my rebuttal to him be just as heartless as his to these people above and tell him they should kick his and his expensive family's asses off our insurance so my premium can go down? Fuck. They're not following this shit to the logical conclusion.

Plus reading that provision where soon we can buy plans that cover less than 60% of the cost of covered procedures, lol, what's the fucking point? Damn right insurance can be cheaper when it doesn't cover shit.

Even though it looks like I won't be negatively affected for 20 years under this plan it pains me to read this shit.

 

[The Chosen One]

It'll be interesting to see how many Republican voters fall in line to support this bill or whether they lash out. Unlike the other issues, this actually affects them since many Republicans in the rust belt and southern states, rely on Obamacare.

Are they willing to become uninsured or see their premiums triple (Seniors) just so they can stay loyal to FoxNews and Talk Radio. Republicans now control the Presidency, the House, and Senate. Major shortcomings with healthcare can no longer be scapegoated on Obama or Democrats.

I'm sure some Trump supporters are willing to go down with the ship, but I'm willing to bet there's going to be a sizable amount of Republicans who will have a rude awakening out of their Trump-stupor. It's why you're already seeing a lot of Republicans in Congress starting to panic because they can see the on-coming headwind and their whole Repeal & Replace shell game is about to be exposed.

I fully expect within 3-4 weeks for Trump to throw Ryan under the bus. Bookmark this post.

 

[Raitosaito]

Sucks reading that report.

I'm always amazed at how some people can casually accept this, throwing around 24 million off insurance so their premium can go down and how they can accept this argument in the first place. I mean, why stop at 24 million, why not 58 million? Or a hundred million? Or why not just save a nickel for each person and kick a thousand people off?

These people don't even understand their damn predicament. Like this one guy I work with bitching about it because his wife and daughter need lots of care, since our company's pooled together doesn't he realize that I'm paying for his wife and daughter essentially since I don't go to the doctor? Should my rebuttal to him be just as heartless as his to these people above and tell him they should kick his and his expensive family's asses off our insurance so my premium can go down? Fuck. They're not following this shit to the logical conclusion.

Plus reading that provision where soon we can buy plans that cover less than 60% of the cost of covered procedures, lol, what's the fucking point? Damn right insurance can be cheaper when it doesn't cover shit.

Even though it looks like I won't be negatively affected for 20 years under this plan it pains me to read this shit.

Who knew insurance could be so complicated?

 

[Usobuko]

His base probably see it as 24 millions aliens or cattle losing healthcare until it hits them.

 

[AndyD]

I don't know either. I'm not an expert that can or will analyze the entirety of the economic impacts.

I just know that it's too expensive and getting worse by the year. I'm willing to give another strategy a go after seeing Obamacare's performance in this arena.

Either you're trolling or confused. ACA already made significant strides in this area compared to before. The AHCA will undo a lot of of those improvements which will amke it worse for people exactly in your position. And the whole "wave 2, 3" promises are a mirage, none will come to pass, as they are highly controversial bits that would only work in a giant package type approach.

 

[KernelPanic]

I fully expect within 3-4 weeks for Trump to throw Ryan under the bus. Bookmark this post.

That's what he wants. No love lost between Bannon & Ryan.

Trump &co. want to install more extremist GOP members in the midterms.

 

[Sulik2]

Ryan is the biggest scumbag on the planet. He truly believes that government should have no role in healthcare, as do many in the GOP, despite the abundance of evidence that objectively demonstrates it needs to have a heavy role, not just a small one. This is actually a divide in the GOP, some think the government should have some role, but just don't want a single payer system. Hopefully this is a big enough divide that democrats can push on R senators that feel the government should have some role and prevent this from passing.

If this does pass, there needs to be armed revolt in the USA. This is literally a bill aimed at killing millions to put more money in millionaires pockets.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Because now they will be competing across state lines less likely to exploit their local markets.

This whole "competition across state lines" thing wouldn't go as well as advertised in the long run. It would create some competition at first, but eventually the big insurance companies with the deeper pocketbooks will simply price the smaller ones out of the market, gobble them up, and then the remaining few players in the market will simply collude and drive prices back up to whatever level they see fit. That's the only reason Repubs are pushing for it- nothing gives them a boner faster than the idea of giant corporations getting bigger at the expense of everything else.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Town Halls for the GOP are sure going to be a ball going forward.

Remember that Tom Cotton beat down during his Q&A? That will seem like a blessing to him when this shit passes.

 

[3rdman]

Ryan is the biggest scumbag on the planet. He truly believes that government should have no role in healthcare, as do many in the GOP, despite the abundance of evidence that objectively demonstrates it needs to have a heavy role, not just a small one. This is actually a divide in the GOP, some think the government should have some role, but just don't want a single payer system. Hopefully this is a big enough divide that democrats can push on R senators that feel the government should have some role and prevent this from passing.

If this does pass, there needs to be armed revolt in the USA. This is literally a bill aimed at killing millions to put more money in millionaires pockets.

Yeah...for the life of me, I will never understand how people can put ideology over actual lives and simple common sense. I expect it to blow up in their faces but I also thought that Hillary would've won so who knows...