CDPR keeping Witcher 3 keys for Origin, uPlay and GOG; tell GMG to go pound sand

hawk2025 said:
Restricting GMG from selling keys was a shrewd business move. But GMG didn't choose to just not sell the game, and so here we are.

Strictly based on the information we know -- It's ridiculous to excuse either CDPR's business decision to not sell keys to GMG, or GMG's decision to resort to another seller. There are two separate, if connected, issues to be analyzed: The negotiation with GMG and their subsequent move. One doesn't excuse the other, and we need more information to actually analyze either without making quite a few assumptions like I did above.
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Why is it ridiculous to excuse CDPR's business decision to not sell keys to GMG? Supplier/Retailer contracts fail all the time, from both ends. Choosing to not sell your product through specific retailers is not something new or even malicious, shady, or unethical. It literally happens all the time.

What doesn't happen all the time ... is a retailer intentionally going around the supplier after failing to secure a distribution contract to acquire the goods in what is arguably a questionable manner. That is straight up retailer suicide.
 
Fat4all said:
You're quoting an angry representative from GMG who is accusing them of pushing their own platform. Has GOG said they are doing this to "push their own platform"? That's a silly accusation, the pre-order codes GMG were selling were GOG Galaxy codes.

GMG got their codes from undisclosed sources, they are the ones in the wrong. Thus, they miss out on selling one of the years biggest PC releases.

EDIT: Also, see hawk2025's post.
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An Angry rep? WTF/ He's the CEO!

In a statement to GameSpot, Green Man Gaming CEO Paul Sulyok explained that it tried to work with CD Projekt Red, but the developer chose to focus on its own platform, GOG.com, rather than give players more options for where they can buy the game.

...

"We, like millions of customers, are huge fans of The Witcher series, and have been eager for the launch of this amazing title. We believe that CDPR’s desire to support their own platform by working with retail outlets that would not conflict with their own is greater than that of meeting the demands of their audience, therefore we made the decision to indirectly secure the product and deliver it to our customers."

Sulyok explains that GMG chose to essentially go around CD Projekt RED by acquiring digital copies of the game from third parties and retailers that were approved by CD Projekt RED. According to Sulyok, this means that CD Projekt RED is getting the revenue from sales of these games, and that any additional discount is absorbed by GMG. Earlier today, CD Projekt RED told GameSpot it was getting "zero" revenue from these sales.

"We would heartily welcome a renewed dialogue with CDPR, and are keen to continue to not only support the launch of The Witcher 3, but to keep celebrating and bringing the whole catalogue of CDPR titles to a worldwide audience, as we have done since 2011," Sulyok said.
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So, unless the CEO is lying...?
 
Here's the relevant comments from CDPR in their forums (again, if they've been posted before)

Rafal_Jaki said:
Just a few words of explanation:

We have worked with GMG in the past for w2 and they were a legit partner.
We control all digital and the codes, and because we decided not to sell Keys to GMG it came as a suprise that they are doing a special promo without buying Keys from us. We have reach out to ask for the source of they Keys but up until now there was no response. They might sell nVidia Keys (which are not to be sold but gifted with the nVidia promo), or they just bough Keys from gog just like a regular customer and now they resell them with a loss (we cannot prevent anyone from selling something).
They also list Bandai Namco as the published which is not true for w3 (namco is our box distributor in PAL), so GMG is not a CDPR partner for W3 but they still might sell Keys that will work.
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from here
 
no idea why ppl are upset with GMG. No way they are selling illegal keys. why didnt CDP tell folks to go to steam then? they want everyone to use galaxy at GOG. The whole thing smells shady from CDP IMO
 
kpaadet said:
I am sure CDPR would love that, they already didn't sell them any keys. Not having to deal with GMG which is undercutting the bigger marketplaces would seem like heaven to most publishers no?
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Never heard anyone complain until now. GMG just takes a lesser cut on their end. They must have a pretty good relationship with a lot of pubs because they often tweet out GMG deals.

Mad Season said:
no idea why ppl are upset with GMG. No way they are selling illegal keys. why didnt CDP tell folks to go to steam then? they want everyone to use galaxy at GOG. The whole thing smells shady from CDP IMO
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I don't it's shady, just self serving. They were GOG keys anyway.
 
elitewillie1 said:
Angry representative? He's the GMG CEO. Lol.

"In a statement to GameSpot, Green Man Gaming CEO Paul Sulyok explained that it tried to work with CD Projekt Red, but the developer chose to focus on its own platform, GOG.com, rather than give players more options for where they can buy the game."
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He's technically wrong in his statement. He says that CDPR refused to work with GMG and a number of other "reputable" retailers, however that isn't the case. Origin, Steam and uPlay all have keys, plus other sites like Nuuvem and such also have selling rights. So it's just GMG, though his statement paints CDPR as saying no to a bunch of people.

This has all just blown way out of proportion and people are just drawing across false claims from their asses, on both sides of he fence. Honestly the only information we need now is where the keys are coming from, so we know that they aren't stolen or anything like that. No one is in the wrong right now, both have acted accordingly and don't deserve any slandering.
 
Vodh said:
1. If 'their product' has been obtained in a legitimate way, they don't have a fucking say in what's happening to it anymore. Digital licences are restrictive enough as it is and if CDPR felt really strongly about it, they can block the keys.

2. Ever heard of bulk discounts? Say company X bought 200k keys from CDPR at $30 a piece, sold 100k to GMG at $35 a piece and now GMG is selling them at $39 a piece. I don't see anything shady about it, and something tells me GMG wouldn't sell them at a loss just to spite CDPR.

Literally the only scenario where what GMG is doing would be wrong here is if they either stole the keys or knowingly bought them from a shady reseller who broke their own agreement with CDPR by selling them to GMG.
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First, did you actually read my post? Where did I say they can control a key once it's sold? In fact, I clearly stated it's GMGs prerogative to source from elsewhere. However, normally when you have to go through a middleman it inflates prices, not decreases them -- but I even mentioned that as a possibility (loss leading). So I really don't understand why you're even disagreeing with me, since nothing you're talking about conflicts with anything in my post. In fact, I clearly stated GMG would only be in the wrong if they got them illicitly.
 
Fat4all said:
You're quoting an angry representative from GMG who is accusing them of pushing their own platform. Has GOG said they are doing this to "push their own platform"? That's a silly accusation, the pre-order codes GMG were selling were GOG Galaxy codes.

GMG got their codes from undisclosed sources, they are the ones in the wrong. Thus, they miss out on selling one of the years biggest PC releases.

EDIT: Also, see hawk2025's post.
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How is GMG missing out on selling the game when they are selling the game? And probably selling a boatload of copies because they are selling it cheaper than anyone else?

Why are they obligated to disclose the source of their codes? They didn't just materialize out of thin air - someone bought them from Namco and/or CDPR and sold them to GMG. It's ludicrous to somehow suggest CDPR isn't getting paid. The codes have already been bought and paid for, and they'll get their cut.
 
Kintaro said:
CDP refused to work with GMG? Just to push their platform? That's pretty fucking lame. I see they have no problem selling their wares on Steam even though those copies are tied to that marketplace and not GOG's. I don't get it.

Am I missing something here? This makes CDP look really, really petty here.
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That is what GMG says and GOG/CDP is to respond so I wouldn't take that at face value. If we remove all fluff and just use facts.. statements we have then you would read;

CPD reps 1st message; http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/35436-Witcher-3-35-off?p=1634844&viewfull=1#post1634844

CDP reps 2nd message; http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/35436-Witcher-3-35-off?p=1635264&viewfull=1#post1635264

GMG statement; http://www.gamespot.com/articles/witcher-3-39-codes-legitimate-despite-dev-accusati/1100-6427149/

Basic idea is that for reason or another CDP didn't make partnership with GMG for TW3 sales. When GMG put TW3's GOG keys into sale with heavy discount it created reaction in CDP as they never gave any keys to GMG to sell, see CDP rep messages. This created shitshow to which GMG responded with statement about failed negotiations, jab about CDP pushing GOG and then how they are getting TW3 keys from "legitimate source".
 
jcm said:
Or there's another intermediary. Bamco sells boxed copies to company x, who in turn sells them to GMG. I'd be very surprised if Bamco weren't ultimate the source of these keys. I don't think it's an accident that they're listed as the publisher.
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The only legit reason I see CDPR get upset about this is the agreement mentioned no reselling keys to businesses.
If it does not, toughen up because you were in the wrong. You did not hold resellers accountable.
 
Mad Season said:
no idea why ppl are upset with GMG. No way they are selling illegal keys. why didnt CDP tell folks to go to steam then? they want everyone to use galaxy at GOG. The whole thing smells shady from CDP IMO
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Please, for the last time stop this stupid theory that GoG is being pushed to the forefront. Everyone is the exact same price, with Steam actually being the cheapest in terms of profit split.

There is no need for stupid conspiracies.
 
ScatheZombie said:
Why is it ridiculous to excuse CDPR's business decision to not sell keys to GMG? Supplier/Retailer contracts fail all the time, from both ends. Choosing to not sell your product through specific retailers is not something new or even malicious, shady, or unethical. It literally happens all the time.

What doesn't happen all the time ... is a retailer intentionally going around the supplier after failing to secure a distribution contract to acquire the goods in what is arguably a questionable manner. That is straight up retailer suicide.
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Well, you ignored the whole wall of text that came before it.

It's ridiculous because, due to the circumstances, it stands to reason that this wasn't an exogenous shock to the supply chain, but a business decision that needs to be understood. "It happens all the time" is not a satisfactory explanation.


elitewillie1 said:
Sir or ma'am. I really love you for this. Finally someone who understands business and economics. Thank you lord.
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I was hoping the post wasn't totally lost :) The point regarding GOG's margin and the elasticity being higher in particular conditional on going outside Steam didn't come out as clearly as I hoped, though. A ton of people are saying that the fact that GOG's price is the same as Steam means that statements regarding competition should be immediately dismissed. That is categorically wrong.
 
Wereroku said:
Yes a CEO has never lied before. GMG will say whatever will make them look the best.
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As will GOG/CDPR, and given GOG's history, I don't trust a fucking word out of their mouths, nor do I bear them any good will.

If this was a lesser game, I'd probably take some kind of stupid principled stand over it, but I'm not going to skip a possible GOTY just because these guys are assholes. But I will happily call them such.
 
The problem from CDPR's standpoint is you have a retailer selling keys for CDPR's game and CDPR has no idea what the hell they're selling or where they're getting them from. IF the keys are fake, or are duplicates, the backlash doesn't just affect GMG, the customer would be assuming that CDPR doesn't have its act together for key distribution to retailers, as well.
 
elitewillie1 said:
So why trust what CDPR is saying? If that's yours stance then why have this conversation? Everyone is basically lying.
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I think they are both honest because they did not hide there was a middle man. Obviously CDPR does not want GMG selling it. If the middle-man is following the contract, then too bad for CDPR. Bad foresight.
 
elitewillie1 said:
So why trust what CDPR is saying? If that's yours stance then why have this conversation? Everyone is basically lying.
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Because all they are saying is they don't know where the keys are coming from. They aren't making elaborate statements about GMG motivations or business practices. Hell read the real quotes from a CDPR employee they just warned people that GMG was not an authorized reseller and thus they are getting keys from an unknown source which is magically all true. So please tell me what they are lying about.
 
Wereroku said:
What would CDPR not do? Sorry I don't actually know what you are sarcastically trying to suggest. CDPR isn't lying they don't know where the keys came from.
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You sarcastically said "CEOs never lie", but you seem to take CDPR's word at face value. Considering they seemed to be lying when they said they wouldn't see any revenue from those keys, I wonder why that is.

Puppet Shadow said:
We already know he's lying.

If the game was only available on GOG, or it was cheaper than all the other resellers, he'd have a point.
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Huh?
 
Morrigan Stark said:
You sarcastically said "CEOs never lie", but you seem to take CDPR's word at face value. Considering they seemed to be lying when they said they wouldn't see any revenue from those keys, I wonder why that is.
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Well GMG confirmed that they are getting their keys from an unknown source and not CDPR so what statement has CDPR said that has been unconfirmed or a lie on this matter? CDPR has not made any statement about GMG beyond those 2 statements.
 
HowZatOZ said:
He's technically wrong in his statement. He says that CDPR refused to work with GMG and a number of other "reputable" retailers, however that isn't the case. Origin, Steam and uPlay all have keys, plus other sites like Nuuvem and such also have selling rights. So it's just GMG, though his statement paints CDPR as saying no to a bunch of people.

This has all just blown way out of proportion and people are just drawing across false claims from their asses, on both sides of he fence. Honestly the only information we need now is where the keys are coming from, so we know that they aren't stolen or anything like that. No one is in the wrong right now, both have acted accordingly and don't deserve any slandering.
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I wouldnt doubt that they bought them from nuuvem
 
Untalkative_Bunny said:
Yeah, the only ones caught in a lie are GMG.
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I read through most of the thread, but might have missed something. What did CDPR lie about, assuming your comment was sarcastic?


elitewillie1 said:
What does this mean?
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Ya, I worded it poorly, apologies. I meant If CDPR refused to sell the game to GMG because they wanted to promote their own site (this according to GMG) then the game would only be sold on CDPR's site. It is not. Or, it would be sold there at a lower price than Steam, Origin ect. It's not.
 
Wereroku said:
The ceo claimed that multiple people were cut out to expand GOG's devious goals yet we can't find another retailer that has not been given keys directly. They appear to be the only site locked out.
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Do you deny that cutting the retailer that is likely to have the lowest price, all else constant, increases GOG's market share for this game?
 
hawk2025 said:
Do you deny that cutting the retailer that is likely to have the lowest price, all else constant, increases GOG's market share for this game?
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Yes because it will probably increase steams share since they have the lowest price in many regions. GOG's market share will probably be unaffected since these keys redeem to there as well.
 
impact said:
Yea because fuck other people getting money, I only give it to huge corporations!
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So we buy at lowest price because fuck developers we can do what we want. Then we turn around, and bitch about downgrades and crappy combat, to the people we just fucked over. Smh.
 
Wereroku said:
Yes because it will probably increase steams share since they have the lowest price in many regions. GOG's market share will probably be unaffected since these keys redeem to there as well.
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A direct sale from GOG is not equivalent to a key-based sale from other retailers that is activated on GOG.

Let me rephrase that: Do you think that the market share of *direct* GOG sales would theoretically be impacted by cutting off the retailer that typically offers the lowest price?
 
hawk2025 said:
A direct sale from GOG is not equivalent to a key-based sale from other retailers.

Let me rephrase that: Do you think that the market share of *direct* GOG sales would theoretically be impacted by cutting off the retailer that typically offers the lowest price?
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He doesn't understand the concept of market share.
 
VolticArchangel said:
The events and developments surrounding this matter are abhorrent, to say the least from a consumer's perspective.

What I don't understand is the legality of this entire scenario. Isn't an online reseller / retail outlet legally bound to a developer/publisher's terms (and vice-versa) when listing their products on the storefront ? This is how software distribution generally operates I reckon. They also list Bamco as the general publisher when they're only publishing the retail units in PAL territories like they did for The Witcher 2 (Atari did for NA IIRC). Moreover, how does CDPR get their margin from every sale that's done through GMG, if there isn't a contract at all ? Isn't this stuff illegal ?

If (a big one) indeed CDPR goes red alert (no pun intended) and tries to end their business relations with GMG after this debacle and wants to pull their games from GMG, can they do so ? Are there laws in place for these kind of instances, should they arise ? I don't even know where some illegal portals like G** operate, who sell stolen keys.
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Ok. I worked for an independent game store. One day an EB Games moved in right next to us and started undercutting our prices. We are a small, privately owned business and couldn't survive in that environment. So we started importing our games from legitimate wholesalers overseas so we could remain competitive. EB Games started calling the local game publishers to report us and complain. One of them called us (I think it was Take 2). Their representative tried to tell us to stop selling imported games (and also to stop occasionally breaking street date). We asked him to tell us what laws we were breaking. He couldn't. Then he tried to get us to tell him who our suppliers were, so they could put pressure on them to stop supplying us, no doubt. We politely declined.

End result? We are still able to import and sell games from legitimate resellers as there is no laws against it (in my country anyway).

I see this situation as very similar to the GMG/CDPR saga.
 
TheSlySoul said:
The only legit reason I see CDPR get upset about this is the agreement mentioned no reselling keys to businesses.
If it does not, toughen up because you were in the wrong. You did not hold resellers accountable.
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Their contract with Bamco couldn't specify that, because Bamco has to sell disc copies to businesses. That's how publishing works. From Bamco's point of view, selling x copies to GMG is no different than selling x copies to Joe's Game Shop. It's what CDPR hired them to do.
 
elitewillie1 said:
So why trust what CDPR is saying? If that's yours stance then why have this conversation? Everyone is basically lying.
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GMG is lying not only about their business stance, but lying about CDPR trying to push GOG. Maybe lying is a bad word, would you prefer misrepresenting information?

CDPR on the other hand has nothing to lie about. They haven't entered a distribution agreement with GMG and don't know where the keys are from...what's there not to believe from them? You can argue what they are doing by not providing the keys in the first place is wrong, but certainly can't call them liars
 
I knew it as soon as I read this in the morning that this move reeked of CDPR pushing GOG by cutting out GMG.

Didn't wanna seem tinfoil-ish...
 
Banjo-Kazooie said:
GMG is lying not only about their business stance, but lying about CDPR trying to push GOG. Maybe lying is a bad word, would you prefer misrepresenting information?
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What is the impact of restricting sales from the lowest-price seller, though?

Basically, let's assume that GMG did end up selling absolutely no keys for The Witcher 3. What do you think would happen to all those people that would otherwise have bought from GMG?
 
runnin_blue said:
Ok. I worked for an independent game store. One day an EB Games moved in right next to us and started undercutting our prices. We are a small, privately owned business and couldn't survive in that environment. So we started importing our games from legitimate wholesalers overseas so we could remain competitive. EB Games started calling the local game publishers to report us and complain. One of them called us (I think it was Take 2). Their representative tried to tell us to stop selling imported games (and also to stop occasionally breaking street date). We asked him to tell us what laws we were breaking. He couldn't. Then he tried to get us to tell him who our suppliers were, so they could put pressure on them to stop supplying us, no doubt. We politely declined.

End result? We are still able to import and sell games from legitimate resellers as there is no laws against it (in my country anyway).

I see this situation as very similar to the GMG/CDPR saga.
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Good post.
Things are not always black and white.

jcm said:
Their contract with Bamco couldn't specify that, because Bamco has to sell disc copies to businesses. That's how publishing works. From Bamco's point of view, selling x copies to GMG is no different than selling x copies to Joe's Game Shop. It's what CDPR hired them to do.
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A developer at CDPR confirmed none of the keys were intended for retail release. So...
 
hawk2025 said:
A direct sale from GOG is not equivalent to a key-based sale from other retailers that is activated on GOG.

Let me rephrase that: Do you think that the market share of *direct* GOG sales would theoretically be impacted by cutting off the retailer that typically offers the lowest price?
Click to expand...

Nope. Because the next lowest is steam. I think without a GMG offers most of these user would go with steam or wait for a sale. I believe CDPR is doing this to have a price floor not to direct platform shares.
 
I highly doubt GMG is selling illegally obtained, stolen, or bulk bought regionally priced keys. If they HAVE just bought keys from a retailer that IS partnered with CDPR and are selling them at a loss for whatever reason then I don't see why anyone has any right to be mad. It would be like someone buying a key from GOG and then selling it on eBay for less than they paid.
 
Krauser Kat said:
So we buy at lowest price because fuck developers we can do what we want. Then we turn around, and bitch about downgrades and crappy combat, to the people we just fucked over. Smh.
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So let's just fuck economic principles and let sellers do whatever the hell they want. They tried to manipulate prices and got caught.
 
Banjo-Kazooie said:
GMG is lying not only about their business stance, but lying about CDPR trying to push GOG. Maybe lying is a bad word, would you prefer misrepresenting information?

CDPR on the other hand has nothing to lie about. They haven't entered a distribution agreement with GMG and don't know where the keys are from...what's there not to believe from them? You can argue what they are doing by not providing the keys in the first place is wrong, but certainly can't call them liars
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How about the fact that they claimed to see no revenue from keys sold on GMG? Unless the keys were explicitly stolen, that seems like a blatant lie to me. Borderline libellous, to be honest...

LiK said:
lol, dat thread title change is brutal
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What was the original title?
 
I don't see how there's indication that this is specifically pushing GOG. And it's totally common for some retailer contracts to not happen or fail. Heck, Sony and Apple only partner their devices with retailers they agree on pricing with.
 
that editorializing in OP's title...

that high-drama for a relatively small issue...

if it doesn't weight on your conscious that you didn't buy direct from seller (and secondhand and VPN markets show that there are some gamers that just buy cheap) then this is non-news...

it's not surprising that CDPR would try to push their new system next to their biggest game. this isn't shady, especially considering that the game doesn't require galaxy. half-life 2, on the other hand... sim city 2013, on the other hand...

the mystery of where the keys were obtained is the only additional element. regardless, I'd be shocked if CDPR didn't honor those codes
 
Morrigan Stark said:
How about the fact that they claimed to see no revenue from keys sold on GMG? Unless the keys were explicitly stolen, that seems like a blatant lie to me.
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They didn't claim that, Gamespot did for their clickbait article.

Again, maybe lie is a bad word, and I don't think GMG is maliciously lying to its customers, but they are misrepresenting the key origins which go against their company values, as well as misleading people into thinking CDPR is doing this to push GOG, which is extra silly since they were supposedly selling GOG keys.
 
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