CDPR keeping Witcher 3 keys for Origin, uPlay and GOG; tell GMG to go pound sand

I have lost tons of respect for CDPR in this, they have handled it terrible and deserve to be criticized for this.

I am dissapointed at how many people are defending them.
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with what GMG did from a business or ethical point of view.

ps: I personally feel CDPR handled this situation extremely poorly
 
Be careful. I got shit all over in this thread for calling it "greymarket." People get really touchy about it.

LOL! Will keep that in mind. I was really late to this thread and am just getting to grips with where people stand on the issue. It's fascinating to say the least.
 
Amazon isn't selling the game digitally btw.

People keep quoting that GMG about page. GMG DID deal with them directly. They got cut out. Maybe they should have slapped a huge notice on the front page saying "Hey, we tried to get you The Witcher 3 at our awesome discounts, but CDPR cut us out because they don't like our discounts!" I wonder how that would have looked for CDPR. Better or worse.

There is a phrase that GAF likes to use when it comes to things they don't like...what was it? Oh yeah. Just because its within your right, doesn't mean you should do it?" That the way it goes? Or does that only apply to Nintendo?

Amazon are selling digital PSN codes, I'm guessing they were allowed since PSN is not competing directly with GOG, Steam, Origin and Uplay.
 
Are you saying CDPR is publicly calling them out without verifying with their own retail PAL publisher? They do not have a deal with Namco. And I don't think anyone is claiming that it is illegal. It's a grey market. One that GMG stayed away from and assured their customers of the same.

I mean, we 100% know that GMG has a deal with Namco. That isn't even in question. Just go look at all the other Namco games they have that are on sale. CDPR called them out because GMG wasn't getting keys directly from CDPR and they didn't like that. It's as simple as that.
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with what GMG did from a business or ethical point of view.

Well, from a business point of view no, but ethically saying you have a policy you adhere to and then surreptitiously breaking that policy might raise some eyebrows.
 
I mean, we 100% know that GMG has a deal with Namco. That isn't even in question. Just go look at all the other Namco games they have that are on sale. CDPR called them out because GMG wasn't getting keys directly from CDPR and they didn't like that. It's as simple as that.

Did you read the part where Namco isn't selling their digital downloads?
 
I mean, we 100% know that GMG has a deal with Namco. That isn't even in question. Just go look at all the other Namco games they have that are on sale. CDPR called them out because GMG wasn't getting keys directly from CDPR and they didn't like that. It's as simple as that.

What? How do you know, they have a deal with Namco? Namco doesn't have gog keys for sale and is only the box retailer for PAL teritorries.
 
I mean, we 100% know that GMG has a deal with Namco. That isn't even in question. Just go look at all the other Namco games they have that are on sale. CDPR called them out because GMG wasn't getting keys directly from CDPR and they didn't like that. It's as simple as that.

I… I don't even... What is this based on? Nobody knows where they got the keys from, except you
 
Yes you do. At Game, Tesco and CEX when they sold new copies, if a supplier didn't come through for a big game at the price the wanted, they just brought in European stock. Game was more of a stock thing for GTA San Andreas, but we had some fun times in CEX and Tesco putting some BBFC stickers on some French copies of games.

That isn't the same.

You are still purchasing stock from a verified distributor who is contractually allowed to supply to you, a verified vendor. You are simply purchasing from a different supplier in a scenario with multiple legitimate suppliers.

In this case, CDPR is the only supplier. There is no other legitimate supplier. A comparison between the two would be more akin to your company purchasing stock off of some random guy on eBay or out of the back of an unmarked truck. If you actually did that, it would be shady as fuck, since you are unable to verify the integrity of the products. That's the argument that CDPR is making. And that's also the policy of GMG, that they just admitted to breaking.
 
I have lost tons of respect for CDPR in this, they have handled it terrible and deserve to be criticized for this.

I am dissapointed at how many people are defending them.

They just said they dont know where the keys come from and people should hold off buying their game there until they know where they are from
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with what GMG did from a business or ethical point of view.

ps: I personally feel CDPR handled this situation extremely poorly

Yes there is, they were cut out for business considerations since they usually undercut the market with cheaper prices, fair game usually but this time around CDPR doesn't want someone to undercut their own store and their partners, Steam, Origin and the rest. Imagine the embarrassment if Steam or Origin would call CDPR asking them why GMG is selling Witcher 3 cheaper than they are/can.

This is why you have exclusive distribution contracts.
 
I'm not saying they have a deal with Namco for Witcher 3. I said they have a deal with Namco as a publisher. If you go back to the post I was quoting, this was in response to the statement listed on GMG's website.:

"We are incredibly proud to be a business trading and working officially with the world’s greatest publishers and developers. We have direct contracts as an official, approved retail partner with every publisher / developer that has a game listed on Green Man Gaming, so our customers can buy with confidence."
 
I mean, we 100% know that GMG has a deal with Namco. That isn't even in question. Just go look at all the other Namco games they have that are on sale. CDPR called them out because GMG wasn't getting keys directly from CDPR and they didn't like that. It's as simple as that.

So you know they 100% have a deal with namco based on a deal with other games they have with namco?
 
I have lost tons of respect for CDPR in this, they have handled it terrible and deserve to be criticized for this.

I am dissapointed at how many people are defending them.

It can't be worse than the Half-Life 2 launch, and that Steam thing turned out okay eventually.
 
That isn't the same.

You are still purchasing stock from a verified distributor who is contractually allowed to supply to you, a verified vendor. You are simply purchasing from a different supplier in a scenario with multiple legitimate suppliers.

In this case, CDPR is the only supplier. There is no other legitimate supplier. A comparison between the two would be more akin to your company purchasing stock off of some random guy on eBay or out of the back of an unmarked truck. If you actually did that, it would be shady as fuck, since you are unable to verify the integrity of the products. That's the argument that CDPR is making. And that's also the policy of GMG, that they just admitted to breaking.

Well said

I'm not saying they have a deal with Namco for Witcher 3. I said they have a deal with Namco as a publisher. If you go back to the post I was quoting, this was in response to the statement listed on GMG's website.:

"We are incredibly proud to be a business trading and working officially with the world’s greatest publishers and developers. We have direct contracts as an official, approved retail partner with every publisher / developer that has a game listed on Green Man Gaming, so our customers can buy with confidence."

Given that the thread is about Witcher 3 and how GMG is potentially violating the italicized text, what are you saying then? If you claim they aren't violating it, then you are also claiming Namco is their source right?
 
I have lost tons of respect for CDPR in this, they have handled it terrible and deserve to be criticized for this.

I am dissapointed at how many people are defending them.

Can you be specific as to what have they done that is so terrible?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what GMG did from a business or ethical point of view.

ps: I personally feel CDPR handled this situation extremely poorly

So it is fine and ethical to profess being authorized seller who only gets keys directly from publishers, while without disclosure going around a publisher, selling third party keys?
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with what GMG did from a business or ethical point of view.

ps: I personally feel CDPR handled this situation extremely poorly

How is saying your keys are straight from the publisher yet obtaining them through middle men (who they refuse to disclose the identity of, so we don't know if it's actually legit) and selling them while still having that policy not at least ethically if not legally wrong?
 
I'm not saying they have a deal with Namco for Witcher 3. I said they have a deal with Namco as a publisher. If you go back to the post I was quoting, this was in response to the statement listed on GMG's website.:

"We are incredibly proud to be a business trading and working officially with the world’s greatest publishers and developers. We have direct contracts as an official, approved retail partner with every publisher / developer that has a game listed on Green Man Gaming, so our customers can buy with confidence."

Namco publishes the retail copies. GMG is not selling the retail copies.

Quite a conundrum.
 
When things go downhill, it's usually because someone dropped the ball and didn't think it through. Pretty sure GMG wasn't banking on public goodwill before their decision. But they sure as hell will now. You are seeing a lot of said goodwill in this very thread. They get a free pass because "hey it's GMG, they couldn't have abused the law could they? As long as it's not stolen, my conscience is not prickled".

Yup. Some people just want a cheap price, they're not waiting to see whether if it's official or not. They're expecting the game to work, so no worry for them.

As long as the keys GMG are getting are legit then they are good in my book. It's CDPR that seems to be doing the odd stuff.

If they got a ton of keys, as long as they're not stolen and that is where I trust GMG, so be it.

So long as GMG's keys are legitimate (and it looks like they are), I don't give a shit if they came directly from CDPR or not.

If GMG is gonna start going down the G2A route, then they'll become bannable :O
 
Namco publishes the retail copies. GMG is not selling the retail copies.

Quite a conundrum.

We don't know that for sure do we? But even putting that aside, it doesn't make the statement on their site false, which is what I was trying to get at. People were saying "well this statement needs to be changed" or "they're lying because of this statement" but the statement can still be true even through this ordeal.
 
Actually, you do. As a supplier of a proprietary product, you set contracts with your distributors and retailers that limit what they are able to do with your products. It's one of the reasons retailers throw excess stock away rather than donating it or selling it for super-cheap. Because their retail contract stipulates that they can only sell to consumers, not businesses, and they have to sell above (or below) certain price thresholds. This is fairly common practice across most retail stores.

For example, I once worked for a company that made a specific name brand hair care products. All of our distribution contracts had a no-resell clause with exceptions to specific trusted re-distributors and retailers. And different companies got different contracts. Because Wal-Mart bought our product in significant bulk, they got a discount on our margins. However, Wal-Mart couldn't turn around and use that discount to resell our product to, say, Target - who wasn't ordering the same bulk quantities and thus was not getting the discount.

This is done for a number of reasons, but mostly to discourage second-hand or 'black market' sales where businesses purchase in excess bulk quantities for the expressed purpose of reselling to other businesses who don't or can't get distribution contracts for various reasons and to limit the ability for knock-off, illegal or illegitimately acquired products to circulate amongst both legitimate retailers and grey-market retailers.

This works both ways too. As a retailer, you want to be a 'trusted vendor' and have direct contracts with your suppliers and distributors because you don't want to end up in a situation where you find out your products are illegitimately acquired or knock-offs.

Your examples don't apply to this situation. In your example, the retailer have a contract to get supplied by the manufacturer, which is why they have to throw excess away. In this case it is very likely GmG obtained keys in a legal way by just straight buying them from someone else, which means they didn't sign any agreements with CDPR, meaning that the only thing they have to worry about is the basic laws and guidelines that govern any seller of prebought goods.

Edit:

Can you be specific as to what have they done that is so terrible?



So it is fine and ethical to profess being authorized seller who only gets keys directly from publishers, while without disclosure going around a publisher, selling third party keys?
Is it "fine and ethical" to cut out third parity retailers so that your own service can have the lowest price? I mean in both cases are legal (I believe) and I also think both are pretty "unethical," but as the consumer I'd be more afraid of companies that are trying to force the market to accept a price standard by making anyone who wants to sell your game "officially" to sell it at a higher price, so your service can at all times match/undercut the compition. (which is what i'm worried is happening here)
 
Having the choice to actually buy legit games with the lowest amount of price possible seems like a fantastic choice for gamers so it's kind of baffling that some of us here in GAF seem to be opposed to that.
 
Given that the thread is about Witcher 3 and how GMG is potentially violating the italicized text, what are you saying then? If you claim they aren't violating it, then you are also claiming Namco is their source right?

They aren't violating the italicized text though because we know they have a deal with Namco (even if it's for other games). They have a contract with Namco (even if it's for a different game) who is listed as the publisher on the page of the game listed (Witcher 3). So technically they aren't violating it.
 
We don't know that for sure do we? But even putting that aside, it doesn't make the statement on their site false, which is what I was trying to get at. People were saying "well this statement needs to be changed" or "they're lying because of this statement" but the statement can still be true even through this ordeal.

How are you saying the statement that they obtain copies directly from a publisher is true when they have themselves admitted (after getting caught and exposed by the publisher and gamespot) to obtaining keys from middle men?


Having the choice to actually buy legit games with the lowest amount of price possible seems like a fantastic choice for gamers so it's kind of baffling that some of us here in GAF seem to be opposed to that.


GMG are refusing to name their sources for their keys so we do not know if they are legit.
 
They didn't claim that, Gamespot did for their clickbait article.
Edit: They never claimed such thing, it was GameSpot claiming it. Read above.
They didn't though that was gamespot.
I just re-checked the Gamespot article, and it says this:

Gamespot said:
Sulyok explains that GMG chose to essentially go around CD Projekt RED by acquiring digital copies of the game from third parties and retailers that were approved by CD Projekt RED. According to Sulyok, this means that CD Projekt RED is getting the revenue from sales of these games, and that any additional discount is absorbed by GMG. Earlier today, CD Projekt RED told GameSpot it was getting "zero" revenue from these sales.
So... according to the bold, CDPR did claim they were getting zero revenues, unless Gamespot is straight-out lying here. Or is that what you're all saying, that Gamespot is lying as of right now?
 
So let me get this straight. GMG is buying the keys from a third party, but is still paying for them, and then selling them at their own price? So CDPR is still making their money from every copy GMG sells? Then what the hell is the issue here? That GMG has a standard policy that they are circumventing for one of the biggest games of the year? Is that really worth complaining or getting worked up about?
 
They aren't violating the italicized text though because we know they have a deal with Namco (even if it's for other games). They have a contract with Namco (even if it's for a different game) who is listed as the publisher on the page of the game listed (Witcher 3). So technically they aren't violating it.

If Namco isn't publishing the digital version, and has nothing to do with it, then yeah they would be.
 
Yes there is, they were cut out for business considerations since they usually undercut the market with cheaper prices, fair game usually but this time around CDPR doesn't want someone to undercut their own store and their partners, Steam, Origin and the rest. Imagine the embarrassment if Steam or Origin would call CDPR asking them why GMG is selling Witcher 3 cheaper than they are/can.

This is why you have exclusive distribution contracts.

This whole paragraph sounds not very consumer friendly. The digital future sure looks dull when it gets locked down to 3-4 stores with no price variation.
 
So let me get this straight. GMG is buying the keys from a third party, but is still paying for them, and then selling them at their own price? So CDPR is still making their money from every copy GMG sells? Then what the hell is the issue here? That GMG has a standard policy that they are circumventing for one of the biggest games of the year? Is that really worth complaining or getting worked up about?

They could be buying from illegitimate grey market resellers or be exploiting regional pricing policies, which would make the keys they're selling technically not legit. Especially a lot of grey market stuff can come from stolen keys and thus is potentially illegal. Since GMG aren't naming their source for their keys we do not know if they are legit or not, we just have to take them at their word, and they were just caught breaking their promise.
 
So let me get this straight. GMG is buying the keys from a third party, but is still paying for them, and then selling them at their own price? So CDPR is still making their money from every copy GMG sells? Then what the hell is the issue here? That GMG has a standard policy that they are circumventing for one of the biggest games of the year? Is that really worth complaining or getting worked up about?

My theory is CDPR has obligations towards it's official distribution partners, it doesn't look good when GMG, not a Witcher 3 partner, is selling Witcher 3 cheaper than official partners.

This whole paragraph sounds not very consumer friendly. The digital future sure looks dull when it gets locked down to 3-4 stores with no price variation.

To be fair, exclusive distribution of goods is something retail business has been doing for decades if not centuries. Kind of like someone becoming an exclusive Sony agent in his own country, only he can distribut Sony products.
 
If Namco isn't publishing the digital version, and has nothing to do with it, then yeah they would be.

But Namco is publishing the retail version and we can't prove that GMG isn't getting their keys from Namco. In fact, I'd say it's more likely then some of the other ideas thrown out in this thread (Nvidia promotion, buying keys straight from GOG).

If we were to take it at face value, the site clearly lists Namco as the publisher and GMG says they have a deal with every publisher, then it would have to mean they're getting their keys from Namco, or they'd be lying right? We have no way to prove either.
 
They aren't violating the italicized text though because we know they have a deal with Namco (even if it's for other games). They have a contract with Namco (even if it's for a different game) who is listed as the publisher on the page of the game listed (Witcher 3). So technically they aren't violating it.

Putting semantics aside for a moment, do you agree that they are violating the spirit of what it conveys to the customer?

My theory is CDPR has obligations towards it's official distribution partners, it doesn't look good when GMG, not a Witcher 3 partner, is selling Witcher 3 cheaper than official partners.

Valid point. Hadn't thought about it that way
 
They could be buying from illegitimate grey market resellers or be exploiting regional pricing policies, which would make the keys they're selling technically not legit. Especially a lot of grey market stuff can come from stolen keys and thus is potentially illegal. Since GMG aren't naming their source for their keys we do not know if they are legit or not, we just have to take them at their word, and they were just caught breaking their promise.
It seems extremely unlikely to me that GMG, a reputable store, would be selling potentially stolen keys. That's a very serious accusation that I wouldn't make without evidence.

Seems more likely that serenewarfare's version of the story is accurate. They wanted to please their customers by having keys available for one of the most anticipated titles of the year, so they skirted their policy for this game.
 
I just re-checked the Gamespot article, and it says this:


So... according to the bold, CDPR did claim they were getting zero revenues, unless Gamespot is straight-out lying here. Or is that what you're all saying, that Gamespot is lying as of right now?

GameSpot appeared to have handled this story so badly we really need the context for that "zero", because if the question/statement is "we received zero revenue from GMG", rather than "we have received zero revenue for the keys GMG is selling" it changes the whole thing from one to the other.
 
This whole paragraph sounds not very consumer friendly. The digital future sure looks dull when it gets locked down to 3-4 stores with no price variation.

The Witcher 3 is already cheaper than most launch titles on Steam and gog.com. Can't blame CDProjekt for being mad when GMG, who is not an official partner, is selling keys cheaper than Steam and gog.
 
Your examples don't apply to this situation. In your example, the retailer have a contract to get supplied by the manufacturer, which is why they have to throw excess away. In this case it is very likely GmG obtained keys in a legal way by just straight buying them from someone else, which means they didn't sign any agreements with CDPR, meaning that the only thing they have to worry about is the basic laws and guidelines that govern any seller of prebought goods.

Look at the Wal-Mart example again. In this case, CDPR is manufacturer, GMG is Target, and someone, presumably Bamco, is WM, and it's either the WM breaking the contract here, or WM putting their shampoo stock out so cheap that Target sends their employees to WM to buy it.
 
This whole paragraph sounds not very consumer friendly. The digital future sure looks dull when it gets locked down to 3-4 stores with no price variation.

This is what I said a few posts up, it seems weird that a lot of people are siding with the company that is doing something similar to price fixing. I'm not saying that CDPR is doing anything illegal either I'm just saying one is more consumer unfriendly than the other.

Look at the Wal-Mart example again. In this case, CDPR is manufacturer, GMG is Target, and someone, presumably Bamco, is WM, and it's either the WM breaking the contract here, or WM putting their shampoo stock out so cheap that Target sends their employees to WM to buy it.
Sure, but with either option CDPR can't stop GmG from selling it, and GmG isn't doing anything illegal.
 
Yup. Some people just want a cheap price, they're not waiting to see whether if it's official or not. They're expecting the game to work, so no worry for them.

If I called out every company over contract disputes and stuff like that with other companies I would have no time for anything else and no where to shop. As long as CDPR is getting paid(even if it is indirectly) and the key I would hypothetically get from GMG(I am renting the PS4 version) works and doesn't get revoked that's all I care about.

If GMG is gonna start going down the G2A route, then they'll become bannable :O

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but if it turns out GMG is selling stolen keys and the other stuff that G2A has been accused of then I would be among the first to call them out as scummy pieces of shit.
 
Namco publishes the retail copies. GMG is not selling the retail copies.

Quite a conundrum.

Retail copies come with GOG codes, thus we know Namco has access to a set of GOG codes that they could, theoretically, be providing to GMG.

Considering GMG even set Namco as the publisher of the game in their webpage, I wouldn't be too shocked if that was what happened.
 
I just re-checked the Gamespot article, and it says this:


So... according to the bold, CDPR did claim they were getting zero revenues, unless Gamespot is straight-out lying here. Or is that what you're all saying, that Gamespot is lying as of right now?

Because the keys were purchased indirectly from CD Projekt - through a middleman - only the Middleman themselves paid for the keys. GMG is now selling them again, presumably at a markup, cutting CD Projekt out of the entire transaction.

Make no mistake: CD Projekt is seeing nothing from GMG's transactions.
 
Perhaps Steam and GOG should lower their prices?

And that's exactly part of the problem, a non partner is going to force the product price down. Maybe one of the reasons why CDPR and GMG couldn't come to an agreement, GMG wanted to sell cheaper than the rest, all theory at this point of course.
 
They could be buying from illegitimate grey market resellers or be exploiting regional pricing policies, which would make the keys they're selling technically not legit. Especially a lot of grey market stuff can come from stolen keys and thus is potentially illegal. Since GMG aren't naming their source for their keys we do not know if they are legit or not, we just have to take them at their word, and they were just caught breaking their promise.

If the case is that the keys are illegally obtained or bought through the grey market, then absolutely it's wrong. But I'll take GMG at their word for now.

My theory is CDPR has obligations towards it's official distribution partners, it doesn't look good when GMG, not a Witcher 3 partner, is selling Witcher 3 cheaper than official partners.

Well, if it's true that GMG is selling at a loss, then I see that as a non-issue. GMG has to hurt themselves financially in the short-run, and other "official" partners do not. That is, of course, assuming that GMG is telling the truth.
 
And that's exactly part of the problem, a non partner is going to force the product price down. Maybe one of the reasons why CDPR and GMG couldn't come to an agreement, GMG wanted to sell cheaper than the rest, all theory at this point of course.

And we are living in the age where digital products cost same as retail products just because publishers/developers need to accommodate big retailers.
 
Top Bottom