That heavy discount for TW3 has been there whole time it has been on GMG, just now they removed it for unknown reasons.
CDPR keeping Witcher 3 keys for Origin, uPlay and GOG; tell GMG to go pound sand
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
That heavy discount for TW3 has been there whole time it has been on GMG, just now they removed it for unknown reasons.
While I think this is a really minor issue, a one-time activation done via a file is essentially a small form of DRM.
"Digital Rights management" is exactly what it implies, it's any technique applied to allow the manufacturer to control users access to their product. This techniques don't need to be any specific software.
By not giving a file needed to play the game they are doing exactly that, they're assuring that anyone that gets access to the game earlier can't play it.
Withholding files and requiring an online conection is a DRM practice that's been done before by both MMO games and single player games.
As an example, Assassin's Creed 2 needed persistent online connectivity because the local game didn't have all necessary files and the game would stream those files as needed. No specific software needed, yet it's still DRM.
Or a closer example to what CDPR is doing with Witcher 3, Steam pre-loading, in that situation the player even has the entire game files locally already, but the files need to be decrypted for the game to be playable. That is also a form of DRM.
This is the same idea and technique but applied at a much more basic level, since it only requires you to download once single file once to make the game playable.
It's essentially harmless if you have internet access, but it does disallow users that don't have internet access from playing the copy until they get internet access again.
It means that you cannot play the game until you activate it. So yes, you cannot do with the game whatever you want until you fulfill this one, minor, condition.
BronzeWolf
Banned
It seems that a deal has been reached.
And the best thing is, it's someone on gaf who started it.
......Just like how gaf started the MGSV doctor thing.......I think gaf is out to destroy game companies. :O
Anyway personally I was gonna get it on steam and I'll still get it on steam.
Denton
Member
Except online activation that restricts use is a completely different thing than downloading exe file once and then being completely free to do with the copy whatever one wants. But sure, keep fucking that chicken.
This is just a drop in the ocean. Pure console gamers don't care about this discussion at all. And the rest (as also seen in this thread) are at most punishing CDPR by buying their game on GMG.
RipperGrim
Member
The thing is, you CAN do that with this game.
not having the complete game on disk pretty much is a form of DRM.
its not active like most DRM solutions but the disk you receive is not a complete product.
as Klossen says this does fly in the face of their "no drm" policy. It's a very mild form of drm that imposes a small restriction (requires internet to set up) but it is drm.
its not active like most DRM solutions but the disk you receive is not a complete product.
as Klossen says this does fly in the face of their "no drm" policy. It's a very mild form of drm that imposes a small restriction (requires internet to set up) but it is drm.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I can't begin to tell you just how uninteresting this semantic-based argument about the exact definition of DRM is. I mean, sure, I think if we want to be strictly technical, this could be considered a form of DRM. But it's not DRM in the sense that we traditionally regard DRM as a bad thing.
A minor form of DRM is still DRM.
If you get a physical copy tomorrow you can't play it until CDPR releases the file needed.
If you get a physical copy at release but for some reason you lack internet you won't be able to play it until you access the internet to download the file.
Being able to resell the game does not mean it has no DRM, DRM is about controlling your own software as you see fit, in this case CDPR is implementing some minor DRM to avoid the game leaking earlier. They are still managing their digital rights, just doing in a way that allows for games to be resold.
Any kind of DRM that could affect a paying consumer negatively is a bad thing, and this could affect anyone that happens to be suffering from internet issues (for whatever reason that might be) at the launch of the game.
Now we can argue if this will encapsulate a significant amount of users or not, I would assume it will affect a very small number of people at worst, it still doesn't change that it's something that could potentially negatively affect a paying costumer.
It's really a matter of clarity, I don't mind this type of small DRM myself, but selling yourself as DRM free but then having an online requirement for first activation is contradictory at best.
Personally I had no idea that the retail copy would need an internet connection to work until this thread, I had assume it would be possible to purchase the game directly out of the disc since CDPR always claimed their games to be DRM free.
Messofanego
Banned
Theonik
Member
"It's only DRM when I don't like it"
RipperGrim
Member
Hopefully it's because they have come to an agreement, pity though that the price had to go up so much if that's the case though.
If they came to agreement with CDP I don't see why game would need cost more on GMG than on Steam or Origin.
Why would you need to redownload it? You can store the file on whatever storage device you want (ext. hdd, usb, burn on cd, ...).
What do you do with patches for older games that don't have drm?
Interesting. A little before and after:
Green Man Gaming
Steam
GOG
Looks like they have it resolved.
The Cowboy
Member
It doesn't, if a deal has been reached its likely factoring in the 20/23/25% off discounts that will apply, once you take off GMG's current 23% discount it brings the price down to the Steam/GOG prices (almost).
On GMG now its technically £38.49 (UK), once you factor in the discount.
Have you actually read the article? It's pretty shitty journalism and no where has CDP even said anything close to "these people are selling illegitimate keys, don't buy from them but buy from us!" All we know is that a forum post caught their attention, they notified people that GMG have no contract with them and that the keys are currently unknown with GMG not responding to comment. GMG then responds saying they didn't secure a contract and sought other legitimate yet unnamed means, but also took a dig at GoG.
So really, both companies have done no real "petty" acts. The one who has done wrong is GameSpot for writing a terrible click bait article.
This is only being done at release in order to prevent people preloading the game from playing it. Ultimately allowing preloading is a better solution than just opening the floodgates only at release of the game.
They're not self-publishing retail copies, which could be the source of GMG's keys. We don't know that it isn't.
I don't disagree, I understand exactly what it is for, as I said I'm personally fine with it (I do buy most of my PC games via Steam which also has several forms of DRM).
It still doesn't change that it's DRM and that it could potentially have a negative effect on some users, and as such, CDPR selling themselves as DRM-free is disingenuous.
That's really the issue of the entire situation, much like with the GMG situation one could argue, selling yourself in one way publicly and then acting in a contradictory manner.
Theonik
Member
They are publishing all copies of the game including retail copies but are using third party distributors in some regions for retail.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Oh, come off it. I've conceded that it can be considered DRM. I'm just not sure what the point of this argument is. If we are just trying to score points in a debate nobody ultimately cares about, then yeah. It's DRM guys. Let's agree to that and quit arguing about it.
But typically, when consumers lament what DRM brings to the table, we are talking about more permanent nuisances like the need of an uninterrupted Internet connection, ties to an account that prevent resale, or the need to use different services to boot the game up every time (I.e. another program running in the background.)
elitewillie1
Banned
You might need to go back to intro to Macro Economics. Holy shit did you just butcher basic economic principles. So in your world being a loss leader doesn't exist. How the hell do you explain Walmart or Amazon's success?
So it's anti competitive for GMG to be a loss leader but not anti competitive for CDPR to set a pricing floor. F-that. Lord where did you go to school?
TheSlySoul
Member
Interesting. A little before and after:
Green Man Gaming
Steam
GOG
So I guess they are buying it straight from CDPR now, but cannot discount it.
Guess people were correct on the reason CDPR would not sell to GMG was that they wanted to discount it. (Still a bit baffling since Steam discounted it day one with no issue).
So does that mean the keys already sold are gone or are they taking a hit on profit?
Either way GMG seems to be the goodwill in this.
RipperGrim
Member
Well if the issue was about GMG's low price then the CDPR could have stipulated that to get keys straight from them the price would have to go up. Just speculation though. I have no other ideas as to why the price would go up.
Talking down to people like this isn't going to help you.
It looks like some kind of agreement is in place now. I know they aren't obligated to but it'd be nice if both companies said something to clear this up.
Chinese sweat shop and other third world country manufacturer? Those cheap prices come with something that we don't know or we choose to not know.
GMG is not platform holder. They are not gain anything by selling at loss. Small margin, sure. But at loss? Why would they do that?
See at his posts in this thread. He pretty sure that this is all CDPR fault and GMG is not having their share at all.
Dem internet economists.
TheSlySoul
Member
Walmart I get, but Amazon doesn't run that way. They run like Costco and Sam's: Buy in bulk so they can sell it for cheap and make margins. The volume of sales is how they profit. Granted Amazon warehouses have pretty crappy conditions, but it is still in the US.
You are wrong. I have nothing against them. I simply don't think they should say they are DRM free when they aren't is all. Call a spade a spade. They are DRM free* alright.
And I don't care for the reasoning either. All DRM started out as a way to stop pirates, cheaters, and control access to the games. How is not having a file needed yo run the game not DRM? But I'll stop this conversation, a mod said its gone on enough.
elitewillie1
Banned
You're right. I could have said it in a nicer way and apologize. Still the point remains.
Now we see that GMG has bumped up the price and CDPR is willing to play ball. Guess who got screwed in the end? The customer. I already bought the game twice. Once digital on PS4 and a second time with a physical PS4 collectors. Really not happy with CDPR right now.
elitewillie1
Banned
Why you hating on my Phoenix Online bro? Lol
Inline with GoG and Steam price if you already have Witcher 1 and 2, seems pretty clear what the problem was in the first place, GMG undercutting everyone.
Theonik
Member
Well the origins of this argument was in it being hypocritical for CDPR to be parading as a champion of anti-drm while at the same time implementing DRM in their game. Not that it is an interesting argument in any way but the defence of this does basically boil down to 'It's only DRM if I don't like it' which is disingenuous, much as I don't actually mind what CDPR is doing here.
I am perfectly fine with your stance on the matter as it's perfectly reasonable. It should have been the argument in the first place. It is shifting the goalposts by a fair bit though.
1) Being a loss leader can be considered anticompetitive practice. As it can be used to drive competitors out of business, which is harmful for competition in the long run. You bringing up Amazon and Wallmart are perfect illustrations of this point since they have used this exact same practice to drive competitors out of business. In Amazon's case we have seen them raising their prices over time as they have basically dominated the market. This is why in many countries this practice is considered illegal.
2) Setting a price floor is also considered harmful to competition and laws forbid such a thing. I never said it was fair practice. But can you prove it to be the case here? Where is your evidence of CDPR setting a price floor? In many legal jursdictions and in fact in the UK where GMG is based in, the supplier holds the legal right to refuse to supply a retailer on the grounds of engaging in loss leader practice and is not considered to be price-fixing.
Both parties are engaging in shady business imo.
Edit: This is a very big point of academic debate btw with arguments on both sides, and I'm intentionally not trying to open that can of worms but my original post was trying to illustrate how there are two sides to this argument, and with regards to the post I was replying to, I originally meant to illustrate CDPR's perspective.
I would like to hear from horses mouth (GMG) why they removed that heavy discount from TW3. Interesting play after issuing statement that they did last night.
Probably. Obviously they are not as consumer friendly as many people believe. They were once, but by the look of things that was a long time ago.
EA was consumer friendly too... Long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
TheSlySoul
Member
"We don't know the origin of those keys and would advise our customers to hold off from buying them" == acting like manchildren.
Mmkay.
They could just not offer preloads at all, all the while consumers suffer broken downloads. Would that be preferable?
That way they don't impale themselves upon the sword of hypocrisy attempting to make the result better for just about anybody.
Honestly, the argument that some are making is missing the forest for the trees.
No, no. They would have to offer no retail copies until ~2 weeks after the game was released digitally, otherwise it could still leak if they didn't put that protection in place.
TheSlySoul
Member
Not that part of what they said.
Specifically this...
Saying that without any proof is a manchild.
tycoonheart
Member
Looks like GMG took down their deal.
23% off code works with it tho.