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[daveonezero]

I'm not ready any of this thread but why aren't all the characters in the alphabet gang? What is the point in waiting?

Also are they gay in all regions of the world? Or just a few?

If you're a company and want to be sincere the celebration of gay lesbian and trans people etc.. it shouldn't be restricted per region. If you're not willing to do it everywhere then don't do it.

That's my point in short, I have no idea what else you're on about here.

Exactly. If they change it for certain regions it is an empty dishonorable support.

 

[Toons]

If you're a company and want to be sincere the celebration of gay lesbian and trans people etc.. it shouldn't be restricted per region. If you're not willing to do it everywhere then don't do it.

That's my point in short, I have no idea what else you're on about here.

They ARE willing to do it everywhere but if they do that their entire game could be banned and they face litigation.

The alternative is not to not do what they wanna do at all because a few ridiculous laws in some countries spoiled it for everyone. That makes no sense.

They have to operate within the legal confines of all the countries their game is available in that allows them to operate with the extent possible. Thats the case for most companies, and unfortunately some countries don't have freedom of speech and expression. That doesnr mean its the companies job to censor themselves.

So yes you're literally suggesting they bend the knee to authoritarianism and allow them to dictate their policy worldwide. It makes zero sense.

 

[mcjmetroid]

They ARE willing to do it everywhere but if they do that their entire game could be banned and they face litigation.

The alternative is not to not do what they wanna do at all because a few ridiculous laws in some countries spoiled it for everyone. That makes no sense.

They have to operate within the legal confines of all the countries their game is available in that allows them to operate with the extent possible. Thats the case for most companies, and unfortunately some countries don't have freedom of speech and expression. That doesnr mean its the companies job to censor themselves.

So yes you're literally suggesting they bend the knee to authoritarianism and allow them to dictate their policy worldwide. It makes zero sense.

I think the alternative is the better option. Otherwise what are we doing here?
What are they celebrating?

 

[Nydius]

Yup.

It's all about the money.

No different than a lot of company's big push for eco-friendly shit in a green box or bottle. Big PR push how great it is and how the company is trying to be global saviour of landfills and lakes. But the second any of these kinds of items have crap sales we discontinue it. No different than a regular item. The sales and profit analysis are the exact same methodology. The only difference is the marketing angle to the public.

My company has done its share of discontinuing eco products too because in every category we made some they are always among the worst ranked sellers.

Quite right. I remember learning about "Corporate Social Responsibility" in my required business courses back in college way back in yesteryear. Long before "ESG Scores" were a thing. It's all a facade. Ways for corporations to look like they care about the community to boost profit while barely doing anything of consequence.

 

[Lasha]

They ARE willing to do it everywhere but if they do that their entire game could be banned and they face litigation.

The alternative is not to not do what they wanna do at all because a few ridiculous laws in some countries spoiled it for everyone. That makes no sense.

They have to operate within the legal confines of all the countries their game is available in that allows them to operate with the extent possible. Thats the case for most companies, and unfortunately some countries don't have freedom of speech and expression. That doesnr mean its the companies job to censor themselves.

So yes you're literally suggesting they bend the knee to authoritarianism and allow them to dictate their policy worldwide. It makes zero sense.

The alternative is to show support for the LGBTQ community in the game and tank the ban in countries with draconian laws. Censoring to please those markets is bending the knee to authoritarianism as you put it.

 

[Dr. Claus]

They ARE willing to do it everywhere but if they do that their entire game could be banned and they face litigation.

The alternative is not to not do what they wanna do at all because a few ridiculous laws in some countries spoiled it for everyone. That makes no sense.

They have to operate within the legal confines of all the countries their game is available in that allows them to operate with the extent possible. Thats the case for most companies, and unfortunately some countries don't have freedom of speech and expression. That doesnr mean its the companies job to censor themselves.

So yes you're literally suggesting they bend the knee to authoritarianism and allow them to dictate their policy worldwide. It makes zero sense.

They don't give two flying fucks about LGBT individuals. All they want is money. They will gladly support Anti-LGBT if it earned them more money in certain countries.

 

[Banjo64]

Overwatch 2’s Pride event content will be blocked for some players - Dexerto

The Overwatch 2 team has confirmed that not everyone will be able to access the “opt-in” Pride event content due to legal reasons.

www.dexerto.com

So brave

 

[FunkMiller]

The alternative is to show support for the LGBTQ community in the game and tank the ban in countries with draconian laws. Censoring to please those markets is bending the knee to authoritarianism as you put it.

Absolutely correct.

A true show of support for these communities would be to not sell the product in countries with homophobic laws.

But that’ll never happen because they don’t actually give a fuck.

Either make practical changes that affect things, or shut the fuck up.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

LOL they also removed the NYPD cop car from the pride version of the Midtown map:

Overwatch 2 removes NYPD cop car on Midtown map for Pride event - Dexerto

Overwatch 2 has removed a police car from the Pride version of the New York Midtown map, but not everyone is happy with the decision.

www.dexerto.com

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Absolutely correct.

A true show of support for these communities would be to not sell the product in countries with homophobic laws.

But that’ll never happen because they don’t actually give a fuck.

Either make practical changes that affect things, or shut the fuck up.

Exactly.

And the funny thing is the countries with very conservative views are probably like 1-2% of their total game revenue. There is no way places like Russia or the Mid East are giant contributors to revenue and profit.

So if game companies really care about ethics, it's actually a perfect situation to show the world they care about boycotting oppressive governments while only sacrificing a tiny amount of sales.

Instead, they'd rather do some pixel tweaks and all shut their mouths in hopes nobody on social media notices and compares versions. All the game employees who seem loud and liberal on Twitter never seem to tell the gaming world they've done graphical adjustments. It'll end up being a random guy on Reddit who does the work.

Anything for a buck.

 

[FearlessBelgian]

Overwatch 2’s Pride event content will be blocked for some players - Dexerto

The Overwatch 2 team has confirmed that not everyone will be able to access the “opt-in” Pride event content due to legal reasons.

www.dexerto.com

So brave

Please blizzard, block me

 

[RoboFu]

what if I pretend my charact isn't gay? Do i get banned?


... i dont even play..

 

[DeepEnigma]

They've never protected anyone. The toxic gaming community is insanely rampant in Blizzard/Activision games. And the toxic work environment, which has led to the literal suicide of at least one of their employees with no repercussions, was swept under the rug with hush money. This is a garbage company that I wish would go bankrupt.

Explains why they’ve been overcompensating with the alphabet banners the past couple of years. Easily distracts the goldfish minds.

 

[Mozza]

Never in the history of the human race, has the views of so few people, affected the lives of so many.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

 

[Toons]

They don't give two flying fucks about LGBT individuals. All they want is money. They will gladly support Anti-LGBT if it earned them more money in certain countries.

Applying singular motives to corporations made up of many is a cop out. There can be individuals within it who do care, and ones who don't. Theres no single uni mind running this thing. Its just under the veneer of capitalism as all things are. It's a double edged sword. Not an excuse to do nothing.

The alternative is to show support for the LGBTQ community in the game and tank the ban in countries with draconian laws. Censoring to please those markets is bending the knee to authoritarianism as you put it.

Its not just a ban. They could get sued and cause legal issues. The solution they went with is the best one for their players. Thought I will say your idea is better than just not doing it at all.

I think the alternative is the better option. Otherwise what are we doing here?
What are they celebrating?

Let's be real here critiquing the method of doing this when most here would be complaining regardless of if it was all countries or not is disingenuous.

It's pretty obvious what is being celebrated, irs optional where freedom of expression is allowed and doesn't harm anyone who isn't looking to be offended. In those countries where freedom of expression is not respected, they opted to still give the players there an option to actually play the game. They shouldn't be responsible for the governments decisions.

 

[Nydius]

And the funny thing is the countries with very conservative views are probably like 1-2% of their total game revenue. There is no way places like Russia or the Mid East are giant contributors to revenue and profit.

I don't know. I agree regarding Russia but Saudi Arabia seems to have a lot of tendrils in a lot of markets, including gaming. Nintendo, Embracer, and EA are the ones that immediately come to mind but I imagine there's more. We all know how much pull China has on the gaming industry and they have state-mandated/enforced censorship of LGBT content in the country.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

AHP! YOU'VE ACTIVATED MY GAY CARD*

* - In legal countries, elsewhere we'll send out social media posts about how great tits and/or Allah are on country-specific Twitter analogues.

 

[Toons]

Never in the history of the human race, has the views of so few people, affected the lives of so many.

catholicism.

And I say that as a religious guy.

Absolutely correct.

A true show of support for these communities would be to not sell the product in countries with homophobic laws.

But that’ll never happen because they don’t actually give a fuck.

Either make practical changes that affect things, or shut the fuck up.

Why should the onus be on them to change things and not the homophophic countries lol? Especially a country not their own?

That's backwards logic. You can't simultaneously argue that entertainment media corps should just be entertainment but also its their responsibility to fight for social change and literal law changes in other countries.

 

[Rran]

catholicism.

Catholics make up about 17% of the world's population, a pretty chunky number all considered.

 

[Toons]

Exactly.

And the funny thing is the countries with very conservative views are probably like 1-2% of their total game revenue. There is no way places like Russia or the Mid East are giant contributors to revenue and profit.

Overwatch 2 Player Count Live & Statistics 2024

View the Overwatch 2 Player Count on PlayerCounter and see how many people are playing Overwatch 2 right now all over the world in real time.

playercounter.com

Overwatch Live Player Count & Statistics 2024

View the Overwatch Player Count In 2024 on PlayerCounter and see how many people are playing Overwatch right now all over the world in real-time.

playercounter.com

According to this, Russia is in the top 3 largest player bases for both Overwatch 1 and 2 worldwide. They're over 10% of the player base for overwatch 2.

I couldn't find numbers for the middle east but they are known to have a significant player base as well.

I have no clue where you got your numbers from but you could have at least did some research.

 

[Toons]

Catholics make up about 17% of the world's population, a pretty chunky number all considered.

They didn't originally. That's kinda my point. They have that much of an effect on the world, and they were a fraction of the amount of LGBT people on it at one time.

 

[Rran]

They didn't originally. That's kinda my point. They have that much of an effect on the world, and they were a fraction of the amount of LGBT people on it at one time.

But I feel like that logic could apply to any of the major religions that grew into big numbers, such as Islam. It similarly started small and grew to 1/4th of the world's population.

 

[Toons]

But I feel like that logic could apply to any of the major religions that grew into big numbers, such as Islam. It similarly started small and grew to 1/4th of the world's population.

Early islam predates catholism like something like a few thousand years so its origins are harder to track but there wss def more people practicing in the beginning than the elite exclusive society who established catholicism, early on, largely in a time when they controlled who could even be literate.

Im just pointing out the silliness of putting LGBT people in that box because... a video game company put flags in their own game.

As can be plainly seen hear a lot of people lose some of their rationality when discussing subjects like this but I had to call that one out.

 

[FunkMiller]

Why should the onus be on them to change things and not the homophophic countries lol? Especially a country not their own?

That's backwards logic. You can't simultaneously argue that entertainment media corps should just be entertainment but also its their responsibility to fight for social change and literal law changes in other countries.

I haven’t argued this at all.

Western ‘progressive’ companies should not be trading in backwards, shithole countries. It’s as simple as that. The onus isn’t on them to change anything… just to not support or trade with countries full of bigots.

If some of the nasty little countries found themselves out in the cold, then maybe that’d sharpen a few minds. By trading with them though, these companies are effectively condone the bigotry, intolerance and hate.

 

[Toons]

I haven’t argued this at all.

Western ‘progressive’ companies should not be trading in backwards, shithole countries. It’s as simple as that. The onus isn’t on them to change anything… just to not support or trade with countries full of bigots.

If some of the nasty little countries found themselves out in the cold, then maybe that’d sharpen a few minds. By trading with them though, these companies are effectively condone the bigotry, intolerance and hate.

Thats a simple solution to a complex problem. And its barely a solution at all.

Change isn't brought about by ignoring the problem until it magically goes away, nor is punishing the citizens of countries under oppressive regimes actually going to benefit those citizens... history shows it just makes them hate you more, and allows more room for their government to push propaganda.

Not everyone living there thinks like they do and grouping them up is only going to result in more of them thinking like they do.

 

[FunkMiller]

Thats a simple solution to a complex problem. And its barely a solution at all.

Change isn't brought about by ignoring the problem until it magically goes away, nor is punishing the citizens of countries under oppressive regimes actually going to benefit those citizens... history shows it just makes them hate you more, and allows more room for their government to push propaganda.

Not everyone living there thinks like they do and grouping them up is only going to result in more of them thinking like they do.

Countries like Saudi Arabia aren’t going to change because western companies stay there and sell them shit. They’ll only change when their ideologies and politics have negative consequences economically. It’s naive to think that western values are gained through capitalist consumption. This is clearly not the case. You punish the fuckers. You don’t reward them with video games and sneakers.

 

[Guilty_AI]

who the hell makes up these flags

 

[DeepEnigma]

who the hell makes up these flags

Overseers, you see.

 

[Lasha]

Its not just a ban. They could get sued and cause legal issues. The solution they went with is the best one for their players. Thought I will say your idea is better than just not doing it at all.

I'm saying that Blizzard should stop selling in countries that are hostile to LGBTQ. The best thing for "the players" in those regions is to be cut off from all entertainment until they sort out their own governments. Companies bend the knee to those governments because they don't really care about any of the causes they espouse. The rainbows go back in the closet as soon as profit gets impacted. Companies would have a pro slavery month if it were profitable.

 

[Shh]

They didn't originally. That's kinda my point. They have that much of an effect on the world, and they were a fraction of the amount of LGBT people on it at one time.

What do you mean? Everyone is gay now.

 

[JC 1080P CRT]

I'm saying that Blizzard should stop selling in countries that are hostile to LGBTQ. The best thing for "the players" in those regions is to be cut off from all entertainment until they sort out their own governments. Companies bend the knee to those governments because they don't really care about any of the causes they espouse. The rainbows go back in the closet as soon as profit gets impacted. Companies would have a pro slavery month if it were profitable.

Whenever a company virtual signals during some holiday or month, I always think of this image (MLK near a bus in Alabama, around the time of the bus boycotts):

It makes me think that every single one of these same companies would have gladly put their logos on those buses, if they had existed back then.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Overwatch 2 Player Count Live & Statistics 2024

View the Overwatch 2 Player Count on PlayerCounter and see how many people are playing Overwatch 2 right now all over the world in real time.

playercounter.com

Overwatch Live Player Count & Statistics 2024

View the Overwatch Player Count In 2024 on PlayerCounter and see how many people are playing Overwatch right now all over the world in real-time.

playercounter.com

According to this, Russia is in the top 3 largest player bases for both Overwatch 1 and 2 worldwide. They're over 10% of the player base for overwatch 2.

I couldn't find numbers for the middle east but they are known to have a significant player base as well.

I have no clue where you got your numbers from but you could have at least did some research.

Where do you get over 10% from? Russia OW2 is 3% and OW1 is 8%.

You arent adding them together are you?

 

[Kharedo]

Roadhog and junkrat are married next year

 

[Shadowstar39]

So is any of the women straight in this game? Good thing I don't play gaas, this is getting ridiculous. What happened to country flags representing everyone. Why do they need flags to be seperate from everyone else? We are all human.

 

[mcjmetroid]

I'm saying that Blizzard should stop selling in countries that are hostile to LGBTQ. The best thing for "the players" in those regions is to be cut off from all entertainment until they sort out their own governments. Companies bend the knee to those governments because they don't really care about any of the causes they espouse. The rainbows go back in the closet as soon as profit gets impacted. Companies would have a pro slavery month if it were profitable.

And I agree in a perfect world this is the solution and the right thing to do but I'm not naive to think that will ever happen.

My demand is to simply stop pretending you care about celebrating LGBT people while they trade in these countries which prevent any celebration or mention of LGBT people at best... or openly attack LGBT people at worst.

I'm not even saying stop trading with them but just stop this fake nonsense. Companies should be called out for this every single time they try it just as they would if it was race related.

Where are blizzards internal employees in all of this? You always hear about how outspoken developers are in tech companies these days so where are these people when you need them or are they all worried about meaningless shit like who is getting misgendered?

 

[Kaleinc]

Don't drop the soap while playing Overwatch.

 

[Shh]

So is any of the women straight in this game? Good thing I don't play gaas, this is getting ridiculous. What happened to country flags representing everyone. Why do they need flags to be seperate from everyone else? We are all human.

Because the American flag is "racist" and a symbol of "hatred" and various other nonsense people are pulling from their arse.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

And I agree in a perfect world this is the solution and the right thing to do but I'm not naive to think that will ever happen.

My demand is to simply stop pretending you care about celebrating LGBT people while they trade in these countries which prevent any celebration or mention of LGBT people at best... or openly attack LGBT people at worst.

I'm not even saying stop trading with them but just stop this fake nonsense. Companies should be called out for this every single time they try it just as they would if it was race related.

Where are blizzards internal employees in all of this? You always hear about how outspoken developers are in tech companies these days so where are these people when you need them or are they all worried about meaningless shit like who is getting misgendered?

IMO, companies boycotting wont work. Maybe a united front of country sanctions would work, but no countries are going to band together to force countries to be more liberal when billions of dollars of trade and government relations are on the line.

If companies need to adjust products to suit different markets, go ahead. That's business. Changes to packaging, colours, brand name and language are done all the time. TV ads will differ too. So are product sizes. If companies need to adjust products to suit religions, gender/sex issues, or to appease governments go ahead.

What I've never liked in business is BS marketing. Maybe some people love it. But as someone whose worked at companies in finance my entire life, I have a more pragmatic way of looking at things. Were all adults. So lets cut out the BS. For every sales dude or marketing shill presenting in a room, my team and I will gladly call out the bullshit numbers and blatant lies which they try to gloss over senior management knowing people in those rolls are never into the weeds like the rest of us. So often they will ramble with some junky data hoping to impress management when the data they are presenting are lies. The number of times I've seen random odd looking numbers shown in a powerpoint which totally conflicts with a report I have on me or can generate in 30 seconds are endless.

So it goes to show two faced marketing isn't just from company to consumer, but also internal employee to employee.

The whole facade of game companies being so liberal and justice warriors for all is all self contained in western countries. As we all see, their corporate view changes when dabbling in other regions. Whether it's changing the game or even just not changing their linkedin logo to rainbow for a month goes to show what two faced marketers they are. Say one thing to one group of people, then shut their mouths and market a game entirely different in another region which clashes with the first way they market the game.

That's business for ya. They just hope nobody has the time to compare products and tell people on social media.

 

[daveonezero]

Whenever a company virtual signals during some holiday or month, I always think of this image (MLK near a bus in Alabama, around the time of the bus boycotts):

It makes me think that every single one of these same companies would have gladly put their logos on those buses, if they had existed back then.

These are the same companies. The same banks funded those things and worse. They are the same ones who started Silicon Valley and modern media conglomerates.

And whoever said companies aren’t homogenous that is incorrect. Yes they are made of individuals but in the US the corporate entity has personhood rights.

These corporations have split and dissociative personality diss orders and are so weak willed they blow with whatever seems rights.

 

[Operations66]

catholicism.

And I say that as a religious guy.


Why should the onus be on them to change things and not the homophophic countries lol? Especially a country not their own?

That's backwards logic. You can't simultaneously argue that entertainment media corps should just be entertainment but also its their responsibility to fight for social change and literal law changes in other countries.

No, Catholicism was not "a few people" dictating their views to the many. There were many faithful Catholics among the people. Still are. The LGBTQ+ people are far fewer.

 

[Outlier]

I don't associate myself with games like this, just like I don't associate with the alphabet cult.

 

[Azurro]

They don't give two flying fucks about LGBT individuals. All they want is money. They will gladly support Anti-LGBT if it earned them more money in certain countries.

They don't do it to make money, the alphabet propaganda is mostly divisive and doesn't drive profits, just ask Anheuser Busch. From my limited understanding, they do it to get access to credit lines and other financial instruments based on ESG scores, which are pushed by activist investor organizations such as Blackrock.

You wouldn't be seeing all the propaganda from all of these brands every year otherwise.

I'm saying that Blizzard should stop selling in countries that are hostile to LGBTQ. The best thing for "the players" in those regions is to be cut off from all entertainment until they sort out their own governments. Companies bend the knee to those governments because they don't really care about any of the causes they espouse. The rainbows go back in the closet as soon as profit gets impacted. Companies would have a pro slavery month if it were profitable.

Countries are sovereign and have their own culture, you cannot force and should not force your own values on them, it is morally wrong and why certain people fall into authoritarism and why the general public is growing sick of it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They don't do it to make money, the alphabet propaganda is mostly divisive and doesn't drive profits, just ask Anheuser Busch. From my limited understanding, they do it to get access to credit lines and other financial instruments based on ESG scores, which are pushed by activist investor organizations such as Blackrock.

That is true too.

In Canada, it is even publicly stated that if you want big contracts, you got to get your ass in gear to be eligible for contracts. Feel free to skim this link. Nowhere does it say anything to do with employee qualifications or experience. Just hit some designated special needs groups and you score pts on being eligible to bid.

Federal Contractors Program - Canada.ca

Labour Program administers and enforces the Federal Contractors Program (FCP). FCP requires that organizations who do business with the Government of Canada implement employment equity in their workplace to ensure it's representative of Canada’s labour force with respect to the 4 designated...

www.canada.ca

 

[Lasha]

Countries are sovereign and have their own culture, you cannot force and should not force your own values on them, it is morally wrong and why certain people fall into authoritarism and why the general public is growing sick of it.

How is a refusal to sell a product in a country that requires censorship a violation of that country's sovereignty?

 

[Toons]

I'm saying that Blizzard should stop selling in countries that are hostile to LGBTQ. The best thing for "the players" in those regions is to be cut off from all entertainment until they sort out their own governments.

So you're asking for people to stage revolutions over video games?

 

[Toons]

No, Catholicism was not "a few people" dictating their views to the many. There were many faithful Catholics among the people. Still are. The LGBTQ+ people are far fewer.

Gay people also predate catholism by thousands of years, fun fact.

And no, catholism was instituted by the ruling class of the most powerful nation of the time. Its origins reveal pretty clearly that without the overwhelming power and influence they had it wouldn't have likely caught on.

 

[Lasha]

So you're asking for people to stage revolutions over video games?

Not at all.

 

[Toons]

Where do you get over 10% from? Russia OW2 is 3% and OW1 is 8%.

You arent adding them together are you?

No, I should've screen shotted it when I looked. But its still clearly more than just 1 or 2 percent and thats just daily participation.

What do you mean? Everyone is gay now.

Oh man... you're ride. I need to perfect my accent.

 

[Toons]

Not at all.

Can you clarify what "people who play these video games shouldn't have access to entertainment until they sort out their government" means then?

Because I'm not seeing any other way to read that.

Also, you realize our country has long lasting ties with several of those governments? What kind of suffering are you suggesting the citizens go through for the privilege of playing overwatch?