Of course there is. It sells. You might not realize it but all this attention is exactly what they want. Honestly, I think if everyone completely ignored them this sort of garbage would never surface. But alas if people shout out on social media, they believe they can actually silence freedom of speech. You can't, nor should you. What you can silenece is their funds, stop giving them attention, stop freely advertising their garbage and eventually they will give up. Even if they don't, honestly who cares. No one should take them seriously to begin with.
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Charlie Hebdo cartoon on Italy earthquake sparks anger
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
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Of course there is. It sells. You might not realize it but all this attention is exactly what they want. Honestly, I think if everyone completely ignored them this sort of garbage would never surface. But alas if people shout out on social media, they believe they can actually silence freedom of speech. You can't, nor should you. What you can silenece is their funds, stop giving them attention, stop freely advertising their garbage and eventually they will give up. Even if they don't, honestly who cares. No one should take them seriously to begin with.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It's actually not the magazine cover.
I'm gonna presume they are very bluntly critizicing the lack of preparation for events like these, something that should absolutely be done. There's also this other vignette where they seem to try and explain themselves:
"Italians, it wasn't Charlie Hebdo that built your houses, it was the mafia!"
Every time these people anger someone it's because people take these at face value believing these people are racist, morbid, heartless assholes who'll make fun of whichever tragedy just took place, but it's usually the case that they are actually attacking either the responsible parties or those that contributed to the root cause. And I feel that's absolutely neccesary whichever way you wanna do it.
The scenario where I'm just wrong and they really are just having fun with those that perished in the earthquake is unfathomable to me, but feel free to correct me.
I'm not sure how anybody could infer any of this explanation from the first comic.
They fucked up. The first comic is just poor 4chan-esque edginess.
A good political cartoon is self-contained.
Vampirolol
Member
As an italian I'm not offended by it but of course I don't find it funny. Many people that had nothing to do with the people who died, reacted too badly with real menaces. I still think that the cartoon was just another way to sensibilize people on what happened by playing with the stupid stereotype of pasta. I don't blame reactions as I don't blame cartoonists.
Oh and by the way, mafia had nothing to do with Amatrice, though I can see the point of blaming our system wich isn't ready for these earthquakes.
Oh and by the way, mafia had nothing to do with Amatrice, though I can see the point of blaming our system wich isn't ready for these earthquakes.
It's not the cover, but even if it was, a satirical cartoon shouldn't need an explanation written out for it. Everything we need to know to understand what or who they're satirizing should be implicit in some way. The barrier to understanding has always been a little obtuse, but this is probably the worst I've seen. Not impossible mind you.
protomouse
Member
It certainly doesn't stand on its own.
Discotheque
Banned
i'd rather tell my family i was a crack dealer than admit to working for charlie hebdo. man how low is the self esteem up in that office.
Red Liquorice
Member
Who is this supposed to be satirising? It's just crude and cruel.
Milly Osworth
Member
Always funny when people dont realise what they say when they say something like this.
veloxStrix
Banned
Sorry, I misread the article earlier on CNN. It mentioned it was in the "covers not chosen" section and I missed not chosen somehow.
French satire has always been more obscure than most other cultures. In this case, I would say that the comic is made for readers of the magazine. Not for the people who bandwagoned after the shootings. It's an issue Charlie Hebdo is going to face non-stop moving forward. They were never made for mainstream media. They never intended to be. So if people pull random comics and then separate them from all meaning I can't really see the point.
Ayato Kanzaki
Member
At this point, I think they just don't care anymore if their cartoons are meant to criticize the objectionable aspects of society. They just want other medias to speak about them and hope it will increase their sales.
Nope. Any french looking at this one would only feel that the dead are being mocked. If there was some scandal going on about poor construction quality of the buildings, it might be one thing. But in this instance, there nothing really worth being critiziced.
Since the original artists were murdered, I noticed a severe decline in the quality of charlie hebdo. It went from "painful, but true" to just "bad taste". This one take the top.
Nope. Any french looking at this one would only feel that the dead are being mocked. If there was some scandal going on about poor construction quality of the buildings, it might be one thing. But in this instance, there nothing really worth being critiziced.
Since the original artists were murdered, I noticed a severe decline in the quality of charlie hebdo. It went from "painful, but true" to just "bad taste". This one take the top.
Indeed... I don't like their humor (although I really like black humor in general, even if it's tricky to do it well) and I won't buy the magazine. But I really think putting limits on what you can or cannot do (barring lying/diffamation) is dangerous and unwelcome...
Exactly. It's definitively not done for everyone, far from it, and several people said the magazine died because of the shootings, because it can't be looked by everyone, especially out of "context" (by that, I mean that readers of the magazine reckon they have respect virtually for nothing by choice).
I really, really think they don't care about media, and would prefer not appearing in them.
The magazine has been like that for ages, and there was no "advertisement" in medias before 2015. They weren't earning lots of money, but they didn't care as long as they stayed afloat.
That's definitively not drawn in order to create disccussions in medias, I promise you.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I don't know. This sounds extremely tasteless and insensitive. Seems like they just enjoy courting controversy.
Yeah, feels like some kind of random shitpost.
Audioboxer
Member
As a defender of freedom of speech I understood a long time ago to be honest about that belief I would have to defend things I personally didn't like/found distasteful.
That's the case here. They can do it if they want but I or others can find it crass.
That's the case here. They can do it if they want but I or others can find it crass.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Ow the edge
But they've done better in the past, regardless of intended audiences. What difference does it make in this case anyway? What makes this cartoon okay for subscribers to read and not for me?
entremet
Member
This time ? Their shit always been this nasty in taste
Professor Renegade
Banned
Funny how people can pull a complete 180 when they were championing Charlie Hebdo for free speech a year ago.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Chances are that most people weren't and still aren't fully aware of Charlie Hebdo, myself included. Obviously everyone was completely right to condemn a terrorist attack to silence free speech, but at the same time, I don't think people were clearly able to objectively analyse whether they liked this style of satire or not.
Chase Lebowski
Member
I still believe that they can do whatever they want, but that doesn't mean I can't say that the image is shitty and they fucked up. This is so obvious considering the first image makes sense only with the second one.
If it had a more clear message in the first place, it could have been even more tasteless and it would have been still fine.
I think CH just did a poor job with this one. It was a topic that wasn't nearly as self evident to the outside world as the rest of them. It was very much an "in-joke" that didn't portray well, given that the only people who might have any context to what it means (as g.zzz tried to point out) are too riled up about it to think it's anything other than a personal attack.
But yes it's "shocking" people would turn on free speech the moment they feel it's attacking them (or by proxy similar to them) instead of something else.
Ron Mexico
Member
.
They're not trying to fit a certain narrative-- they've looked at the world through the same lens and aren't interested in qualifying their content based on how it may be perceived or who it may offend.
By all means, feel free to find it tasteless. Feel free to find it uncomfortable. Just don't expect them to apologize. And don't expect their message to somehow shift.
For the record, I think this one was a total miss. But I don't want them to quit swinging.
Fox Mulder
Member
Well I doubt anyone is going to go shoot them over this either. Dumb jokes are dumb.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Did we have this outrage when they mocked dead refugees?
But that's just Gaf and people in general. Willing to attack the picture and not bothering to find out what it's attacking specifically. I guess maybe it wasn't a great picture but so what? There's a reason for it and it takes this offensive image apparently for people to even give a fuck.
And thanks for explaining.
harriet the spy
Member
The first one is bad and tasteless. The second one is somewhat clever but weakened by being a response to the justified criticism of the first one. Either way, this is nothing new for them. CH has never been known to be particularly subtle or clever - it was always subversive and trying to shock the bourgeois, not be some deep intellectual criticism of society. The shit you read when you re fifteen as a light read after your Derrida to show society you've understood it all.
That's all of Charlie Hebdo comics. There's never a punchline.
While this kind of stuff from other places is often criticized, it seems like Charlie Hebdo gets a free pass because of the situation surrounding them. Sure, they are completely within their legal rights, but that doesn't mean they can't be criticized. As soon as someone says it's garbage and provides nothing of value, someone has to come and respond with, "Well, you don't know what satire or free speech is!!" It's like if a publisher kept coming out with terrible games and whenever someone criticized it, people always responded with, "Well, the series was never good and they have a right to release bad games!!" It's like, sure, it was never good and they are within their rights, but what's your point?
Garbage is garbage. Doesn't matter what you call it. I'm also surprised how they are still running. I can't imagine what people see in it. But, it seems like there's demand and they sure are supplying it!
MonsterHunter
Member
Wow, 46 retweets. BBC need to scrape the faux outrage barrel some more
According to some of you, satire only counts as free speech when it's inoffensive. Guess that random opinion invalidates every noteworthy piece of satire created in the past 300 years.
This is absolutely gutter tabloid level smut but it also has every right to exist. That doesn't mean it deserves to sell but that decision is one I'll leave up to their customers, not the law.
This is absolutely gutter tabloid level smut but it also has every right to exist. That doesn't mean it deserves to sell but that decision is one I'll leave up to their customers, not the law.
Discotheque
Banned
yeah i don't think that went so well here either. and for good reason. wasteman magazine.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
They should've gone with that angle from the start.I'm gonna presume they are very bluntly critizicing the lack of preparation for events like these, something that should absolutely be done. There's also this other vignette where they seem to try and explain themselves:
"Italians, it wasn't Charlie Hebdo that built your houses, it was the mafia!"
Every time these people anger someone it's because people take these at face value believing these people are racist, morbid, heartless assholes who'll make fun of whichever tragedy just took place, but it's usually the case that they are actually attacking either the responsible parties or those that contributed to the root cause. And I feel that's absolutely neccesary whichever way you wanna do it.
The scenario where I'm just wrong and they really are just having fun with those that perished in the earthquake is unfathomable to me, but feel free to correct me.
The pasta joke was sort of lazy and uninspired.
I don't mind it being offensive, but a lazy joke is still a lazy joke.
This second one is better.
The good thing about Charlie for the media is that they release a new one every week so it's always new material to be offended about.
It's neither the best of their work or the worst either.
They've done this for pretty much every and any time there was a disaster(natural or not).
At this point it feels like if you don't understand CH you better do what you did before you even knew they existed.
For the aftermath of the CH shooting they had a drawing with an assembly line making tshirts with "JE SUIS CHARLIE" manned by black slaves IIRC with one of them saying "Et la Santé surtout!".
And a few dozens others making fun of the whole event.
There's good drawings and shit ones too, they're not high art either and were never meant to be either.
I'm on a road trip so sorry if I'm not as diligent this time.
You want them to close because you find their stuffs offending? Good to know you agree with terrorists on 1 thing that's part of their message at least!
It's neither the best of their work or the worst either.
They've done this for pretty much every and any time there was a disaster(natural or not).
At this point it feels like if you don't understand CH you better do what you did before you even knew they existed.
For the aftermath of the CH shooting they had a drawing with an assembly line making tshirts with "JE SUIS CHARLIE" manned by black slaves IIRC with one of them saying "Et la Santé surtout!".
And a few dozens others making fun of the whole event.
There's good drawings and shit ones too, they're not high art either and were never meant to be either.
I'm on a road trip so sorry if I'm not as diligent this time.
You want them to close because you find their stuffs offending? Good to know you agree with terrorists on 1 thing that's part of their message at least!
walking fiend
Member
CH can make a cartoon with the caption: Look at all these stupid non-french, and some will still say it is all good dark satire. SMH.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Unless you can show me who was indicating a legitimate attempt to censor Charlie Hebdo, I think that you're overreacting.
This is not satire in my opinion, and if I did consider it satire, I would consider it poor satire. It is not simply being targeted for being offensive, it is targeted for being kind of not very good. Context gives it more value and weight, but the message is lost in trying to be edgy.
walking fiend
Member
You say that as if the state-corruption in Italy is such an obscure concept that we need a tasteless cartoon from CH for people to be reminded of it and give a fuck.
Edit: I am out of this thread. CH threads never end well for me ...
freenudemacusers
Member
You're on a forum where people don't read past the title.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Rule number one of satire: You don't punch down
Yes, and just like this topic, the outrage was a hot take from people who missed the point of what was being said.
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