The Albatross
Member
Je suis charlie, right?
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Charlie Hebdo publishes cartoon of drowned Syrian toddler, "Muslims sink"
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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The Faceless Master
Member
isn't the point that the EU isn't doing enough while children die? or am i just jumping to the wrong conclusion?
It's just us, as people living in a consumerist society, where we can even have "almost free" (over our needs) food, we just do not care about the atrocity or human crisis happening not so far from us.
It's also how we are attracting these poor people with hopes and dreams only for them to be met with death and indifference.
it's really self explanatory and not anti-muslim the least bit.
Messofanego
Banned
I mean, Bioshock Infinite satirised racist thinking in the early USA and right wingers took that anti-foreign vibe hook line and sinker as endorsement. I'm sure there are many cases where things meant to paint a group in a negative light as hyperbolic and played straight can be co-opted by the groups being targeted because they don't clock on with critical thinking. Oh they're talking about us, must be good. We had that with gamergaters taking Onion articles at face value
.It isn't even the front page cartoon by the way. If you look at the photo closely, it appears a non-front page CH cartoon was cut and pasted on the actual cover for maximum shock.
Here is the actual cover:
For anyone wondering, I pretty sure that reads "We are here for you" or something of that nature. or not. I can't read french. I'm a bad canadian.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
So just like all of the real arguments that people are actually making? "Its so awful it has to be a joke" isn't an argument when there's actual non-joking awfulness of this exact type
You need someone telling you that dead children are awful?
He's a tool? And why is that?
Corronchilejano
Member
When you wondered why people would find this "shit" insightful, you weren't particularily bothered by the fact.
I'm not european either.
PatThePassive
Member
The first is comparisons of a biblical martyr and a child who in death has become a figure for the refugees strife. its mocking the people who see the death of the child as proof that the Muslim people aren't chosen by god like they are.
The second seems simpler in that the corporations first thought is to find a way to exploit the refugees for profit.
You could say its in bad taste to mock the death of a child but besides that it seems very in favor of the refugees by being critical of the people who fear them because they have a different religion.
The second seems simpler in that the corporations first thought is to find a way to exploit the refugees for profit.
You could say its in bad taste to mock the death of a child but besides that it seems very in favor of the refugees by being critical of the people who fear them because they have a different religion.
Pretty par for the course with the technomancer
So just like about any political cartoon ever? If I look at a political cartoon from Argentina without knowing anything about argentinian politics, I won't get it either. These things aren't made for global appeal.
Alx
Member
It's usually hard to explain Charlie Hebdo because even if they sometimes do satire, other times they're just trying to do bad jokes. They wouldn't be afraid to publish a cheap dead baby joke. They did publish some, actually.
One thing is for sure though : they're not trying to please racists or share their opinions. There's nothing deep about them, they only want to laugh at anything happening in the news (and yes you need context to understand the jokes most of the time), even if it's a dead kid. Yes it's bad taste, but like I said, that's their shtick. The very reason they exist is because their previous magazine got banned after they made a common joke about Charles de Gaulle dying and victims of a fire in a night club. The motto of that magazine was "dumb and mean".
One thing is for sure though : they're not trying to please racists or share their opinions. There's nothing deep about them, they only want to laugh at anything happening in the news (and yes you need context to understand the jokes most of the time), even if it's a dead kid. Yes it's bad taste, but like I said, that's their shtick. The very reason they exist is because their previous magazine got banned after they made a common joke about Charles de Gaulle dying and victims of a fire in a night club. The motto of that magazine was "dumb and mean".
just out of curiosity. Have you actually read the issue you are complaining about? You know, for context?
>Letting children drown
>Awful
You have the concepts there in your head. You just need to connect them together in, dare I say, a satirical way...
Now you've got it. That's why it's good.
Again, as me and others have said, it's not meant to be funny.
BaronLundi
Member
This. Right here. This is what Charlie Hebdo is about.
The joke is litterally our reflection that the cartoon forces us to face: 'now why aren't those muslims Christians or didn't learn how to walk on water if they'd really hoped to get in here'. Charlie is one of the biggest supporters of welcoming refugees in France instead of letting them die on not so distant shores. This cartoon is meant to provoke and shame us.
Most people are self-aware enough to see that yes, this is indeed awful. Even those that hold a modicum of those views.
The ones that look at the cartoon and think "yeh, you're goddamn right" and "that's right, Christians can walk on water" are a minority's minority. The cartoon isn't appealing to them.
Didn't you hear? It's not racist or inappropriate when they do it.
The reason given in the comic is literally magical.
Jawbreaker
Member
Seems a lot like confirmation bias given some of the sentiments posted in regards to Charlie Hebdo.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
So because it's a common sentiment they have to explain in the joke that "hey this is bad"?
That would literally destroy the point of the satire. That's like having a racist moment in Blazing Saddles (sorry if I keep using this movie) with Mel Brooks walking on set going, "now remember guys, I'm saying how stupid racism is, I'm not endorsing it, I'm saying it's bad and you need to be laughing at the people who are being racist, ok enjoy the film!".
That's not how satire works. Satire is hardly appropriate and can very commonly be in "bad taste" to many.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Imagine if when Swift wrote Modest Proposal there was an actual, real life faction active that seriously proposed and endorsed eating babies. You wouldn't be able to look at it and go "that's satire" because the awfulness of eating babies wouldn't be something so universally derided as to be comical. And letting Muslims drown isn't something so universally derided as to be comical
Seriously.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The title says "Welcome to the migrants!" and the bubble says "You are at home here!".
freenudemacusers
Member
Guys if explaining satire didn't work after 2 pages I'm pretty sure it won't stick after 2 more
Why do you keep ignoring everyone telling you it's not supposed to be a joke?
Just tell me, just to clear it up.
Do you get satire, and do you get dark humor.
Do you understand the point of satire, and the point of dark humor.
Do you understand global politics and can grasp the context of something in a foreign land versus your own.
You've managed to explain in every way why this comic was satire, and yet still refuse to believe it can be.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
He's made it blatantly apparent that he doesn't know how satire works. This is why threads about comedy on GAF always turn to shit. There is always a subset of people who have no idea how comedy works unless it's the most simple, in your face punchline possible.
Always-honest
Banned
It's not bad imo.. Maybe it's not obvious/ clear enough for some?
but everything I've read about the 17th Century indicates that people actually did eat babies so I can't see how Jonathan Swift was exaggerating!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Do you understand satire? Me walking around with a shirt saying "the holocaust was okay" is not satire no matter how much I don't really mean it
Yup. The Europe adult is shrugging, the target of this cartoon is not the kid.
is OP a humour troll?
Except that's not comparable to the comic. At all.
What are you even arguing anymore?
This would only be comparable to the comic if the comic just said "Fuck muslims I hope they drown" with the picture of the baby in the water.
I think he must be trolling, I remember him complaining about a joke he didn't understand before.
DoktorEvil
Banned
What fact? I didn't understand the context until I read the thread and the article and pieced it together, hence why I said "Im not sure".
Many Americans are not kept up with European politics. The satire is lost to people who don't understand the context.
That's not the same thing, dude.
Corronchilejano
Member
Are you actually strawmaning this thing? Are you actually refusing to understand the strip?
The fact that you aren't european. Sorry, just by your text I took it you felt offended by the image, I believe I may have been wrong.
freenudemacusers
Member
Trolling is often satirical so no. I mean I never troll but that's how it has always been explained to me.
I'm sure this is a great, relevant point to make in some other thread on some other topic that might exist one day.
Blimey, you really don't understand anything.
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