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[KHarvey16]

It literally does. If its indistinguishable than its, by definition, not satire, its just the thing. Just making something awful that no-one can tell isn't supposed to be sincere isn't insightful

What is it going to take to convince you that you're incredibly wrong? What sequence of events would lead you to go "wow, I fucking blew that one!" and give up this desperate, futile attempt to keep going?

How many more people need to tell you you've got it wrong?

 

[Boem]

It doesn't have to be funny, but it does have to be distinguishable from the thing its satirizing. You could run this in an a blatantly xenophobic newsletter and no-one reading it would bat an eye

Let's say you're just switching channels on your tv. You come across Louis CK, who you never heard of, and he says 'I can't stand black people!' (literal quote from one of his bits). You turn off your tv in disgust, and start picketing him, because hell, what possible context could there be for that? The guy must be racist!

Replace Louis CK with Colbert. Or anyone. It's fine if you didn't get the context immediately. It's a random page, in a (famously so) leftleaning satirical magazine, that's supposed to accompany one or more texts about the subject. Your initial reaction is shock - which is exactly what they're going for - and because of a lack of context you don't get it. People here explain it. You understand the context. Now you're mad because...?

It's not meant to be Garfield. They're not trying to give you an easy laugh. They're aiming at a slightly higher level of social/political consciousness. Shouldn't they be allowed to do that in their own magazine? Yes, if some insane rightwing website made a joke about how we should just let muslims drown because they're not christians, it's fine to be insulted about that. But that's not what this is, so I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

Being offended is fine. Never being offended by anything isn't a human right.

 

[Huff]

I prefer to think this is just good trolling

 

[echoshifting]

It literally does. If its indistinguishable than its, by definition, not satire, its just the thing. Just making something awful that no-one can tell isn't supposed to be sincere isn't insightful

No-one? But a lot of people seem to get it, so I'm not sure why this line of argument applies in this specific case.

 

[daviyoung]

South Park is often excellent satire because contained within the text you can actually glean the writers actual viewpoints and how they contrast with the surface level expression.

do you have any examples of non-US satire you enjoy that is a bit more modern than 1730?

 

[Toxi]

I prefer to think this is just good trolling

It's not trolling because satire depends on the audience understanding it and trolling depends on the audience not.

 

[Siegcram]

"It's only satire if it's from my country."

 

[HK-47]

Imagine if when Swift wrote Modest Proposal there was an actual, real life faction active that seriously proposed and endorsed eating babies. You wouldn't be able to look at it and go "that's satire" because the awfulness of eating babies wouldn't be something so universally derided as to be comical. And letting Muslims drown isn't something so universally derided as to be comical

What is the required amount of people that need to seriously agree with the satire to not make it satire anymore?

 

[SliceSabre]

I think OP is trying to redefine satire.



"Im so offended that thinking is too hard!"

Nevermind it's been explained probably a hundred times in this thread.

That's a shocking viewpoint. You'd rather assume that a cartoon that conveys satire doesn't portray something other than the shocking content on its face? Maybe, I dunno, pointing a critical finger toward certain segments?

Embarrassing. I'm literally in pain reading this and the current back and forth. Where do you people come from and are there more of you? We need to stop whatever this deficiency is at the source before it spreads.

Is it so hard to believe that something can be so shockingly vile that whatever point it is trying to make is lost because of how extreme it is?


It is kinda like how PETA uses shocking things to try and make a point but just manages to gross out people instead.

 

[Pyramid head]

It literally does. If its indistinguishable than its, by definition, not satire, its just the thing. Just making something awful that no-one can tell isn't supposed to be sincere isn't insightful

I understood the satire instantly, as did most other people, so who is this 'no-one' you keep talking about?

 

[OverBlood 3]

So we're back to not understanding satire?

 

[Cyan]

Oh I get it! The Technomancer's posts are actually satire and we are the ones who are, in fact, not understanding it.

I gotta be honest, that would be amazing.

 

[KHarvey16]

Is it so hard to believe that something can be so shockingly vile that whatever point it is trying to make is lost because of how extreme it is?


It is kinda like how PETA uses shocking things to try and make a point but just manage to gross out people instead.

You don't even know what point it is they're making. It sailed over your head and now you've put your hands over your ears and stamped your feet to show us how much you aren't going to try and understand it.

 

[wildfire]

I think the problem is that this looks really bad unless you apply a very certain lens. I mean, imagine the refugees seeing this.

Aside from the attack I'm not familiar with Hebdo and their reputation.

Looking at this article I think the refugees would be mad, sad or laughing their asses off. Regardless of their emotion I would think most would see this as attacking Europe.

 

[weshes195]

IMO, this is just pure trash.

Yes, it is meant to be satire, but to use a dead child in about 2 weeks since it happened.

Pathetic. Could have used someone else.

 

[mentallyinept]

It literally does. If its indistinguishable than its, by definition, not satire, its just the thing. Just making something awful that no-one can tell isn't supposed to be sincere isn't insightful

I don't understand how you can go through life like this.

Plenty of things can be said and/or depicted in the same way but in two different contexts and have completely different meanings.

It's like a central tenant of comedy is a foreign concept to you.

 

[kirblar]

#cancelcharliehebdo

Yes, it is meant to be satire, but to use a dead child in about 2 weeks since it happened.

Kids are currently dying because of the events there. It is actively confronting people with the reality of what's happening- this is not a bad thing or tasteless in the least.

 

[Siegcram]

Is it so hard to believe that something can be so shockingly vile that whatever point it is trying to make is lost because of how extreme it is?


It is kinda like how PETA uses shocking things to try and make a point but just manages to gross out people instead.

It's a drawing, get over it.

 

[samn]

Is it so hard to believe that something can be so shockingly vile that whatever point it is trying to make is lost because of how extreme it is?


It is kinda like how PETA uses shocking things to try and make a point but just manages to gross out people instead.

If you're not capable of reading this kind of material, don't. This cartoon is intended for the readers of Charlie Hebdo, who know what they're getting into.

It needs to be shocking on the surface to make its point as forcefully as it does.

 

[Boem]

I gotta be honest, that would be amazing.

I'm choosing that as my happy ending for this thread. I don't think anyone will be changing his mind anytime soon, so I'll just leave it for today.

 

[brainchild]

It seems we humans have yet to master the distinction between sarcasm and satire. There is a massive difference.

This is the epitome of satire. However, if the satire doesn't effectively get the message across and is only preaching to the choir, it just ends up being pointlessly offensive.

Bad form Hebdo, bad form.

 

[Real Hero]

IMO, this is just pure trash.

Yes, it is meant to be satire, but to use a dead child in about 2 weeks since it happened.

Pathetic. Could have used someone else.

I totally disagree but this is a more understandable reaction than thinking it is racist.

 

[Jebusman]

I gotta be honest, that would be amazing.

The Technomancer
card-carrying satirical writer.

Actually now that I think of it, I would be more upset if it was. Playing the "I was just joking" card after all that would be too easy of a cop-out.

 

[patapuf]

IMO, this is just pure trash.

Yes, it is meant to be satire, but to use a dead child in about 2 weeks since it happened.

Pathetic. Could have used someone else.

It's a weekly magazine, you draw from current political events, you don't wait until they are not relevant anymore.

 

[KHarvey16]

IMO, this is just pure trash.

Yes, it is meant to be satire, but to use a dead child in about 2 weeks since it happened.

Pathetic. Could have used someone else.

But the dead child is absolutely central to the point they're making.

 

[zou]

Oh I get it! The Technomancer's posts are actually satire and we are the ones who are, in fact, not understanding it.

can't be satire:

If its indistinguishable than [sic] its, by definition, not satire, its just the thing. Just making something awful that no-one can tell isn't supposed to be sincere isn't insightful

 

[daviyoung]

I gotta be honest, that would be amazing.

what would he be satirising? someone that doesn't get satire?

doesn't that just prove again that he doesn't get satire?

 

[Messofanego]

IMO, this is just pure trash.

Yes, it is meant to be satire, but to use a dead child in about 2 weeks since it happened.

Pathetic. Could have used someone else.

There is no time limit to satire or jokes. You've gotta hit when it's relevant and in the collective minds.

 

[HK-47]

So we're back to not understanding satire?

I think Poe's Law and the internet have just broken some people.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

It's just us, as people living in a consumerist society, where we can even have "almost free" (over our needs) food, we just do not care about the atrocity or human crisis happening not so far from us.

It's also how we are attracting these poor people with hopes and dreams only for them to be met with death and indifference.

it's really self explanatory and not anti-muslim the least bit.

That's ...


Okay clearly I was trying way too hard to see something in these. I was expecting some subtle depth that's not actually there.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

These cartoons are not making fun of drowning children. The ridicule is squarely pointed at hypocritical Europe (which us Europeans like to think of as a bastion of humanism and civilization) as we callously watch as children drown along our coasts. OP (and probably a lot of people all over the world who will see this) fails at sarcasm.

Shocking? Absolutely. In poor taste? Very much so. But still absolutely brilliant and hopefully eye-opening for some.

 

[Huff]

It's not trolling because satire depends on the audience understanding it and trolling depends on the audience not.

I'm not referring to the cartoon

 

[Henkka]

Well, that's dark as shit. Not sure it's racist, though. The actual cover portrays a racist, thuggish frenchman, too.

 

[MisterR]

It literally does. If its indistinguishable than its, by definition, not satire, its just the thing. Just making something awful that no-one can tell isn't supposed to be sincere isn't insightful

You missed the satire. It's ok. Take the loss and move on.

 

[LiK]

this is just tasteless

 

[PdotMichael]

IMO, this is just pure trash.

Yes, it is meant to be satire, but to use a dead child in about 2 weeks since it happened.

Pathetic. Could have used someone else.

Worse are the people who have seen pictures of the dead children and just don't care.

This is like the typical outcry of people who just called out as racist, homophob or whatever degrading mind set.

 

[tcrunch]

So, satire breaks NeoGAF.

/adds to folder of ideas

 

[PatThePassive]

There is a couple of documentaries about the rising xenophobia in France and some other European countries, the target audience is familiar with it so they don't spell it out and that's why I think people in this thread are not getting that its satire.

 

[HK-47]

#cancelcharliehebdo


Kids are currently dying because of the events there. It is actively confronting people with the reality of what's happening- this is not a bad thing or tasteless in the least.

Its too soon to use dying children to talk about all those dying children. Its like gun control in the US.

 

[Barbacoatl]

So, satire breaks ScienceGAF.

/adds to folder of ideas

*.

 

[PdotMichael]

So, satire breaks NeoGAF.

/adds to folder of ideas

And I thought USA is a nation with a long satire tradition.

 

[Messofanego]

That's ...


Okay clearly I was trying way too hard to see something in these. I was expecting some subtle depth that's not actually there.

Satire or comedy usually isn't subtle.

 

[freenudemacusers]

So, satire breaks NeoGAF.

/adds to folder of ideas

Careful, you might get banned. Or so I've heard, I have not gotten a ban here before.

 

[MisterR]

It seems we humans have yet to master the distinction between sarcasm and satire. There is a massive difference.

This is the epitome of satire. However, if the satire doesn't effectively get the message across and is only preaching to the choir, it just ends up being pointlessly offensive.

Bad form Hebdo, bad form.

I don't think we should always have to play to the lowest common denominator

 

[hydrophilic attack]

So, satire breaks NeoGAF.

/adds to folder of ideas

Yeah, it's really easy to break gaf with satire. At least until you become notorious for it.

 

[hal9001]

Nvm

 

[Real Hero]

South Park is often excellent satire because contained within the text you can actually glean the writers actual viewpoints and how they contrast with the surface level expression.

Most people seem to have done exactly that with this. I suppose you just didn't get it, no biggie

 

[daviyoung]

has OP gone to bed?

 

[MisterR]

It's satire. What is the conterversy here? People sure do love to get offended.

People can't even wait to process anything before they are instantly offended.

 

[entremet]

Between this and MRA/feminist skit thread, it just that some people just don't get comedy or satire.