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[Coriolanus]

Why did they hate them ?

You don't go around using nukes in a skirmish, unguided bombs are affected by wind when they fall down yes but not afterwards too.

The "indiscriminate" and uncontrolled aspect of chemical weapons was one of the major reasons for the support to ban it.

It was banned because it was considered unsoldierly. Or dishonorable. Or whatever silly term one prefers to pretend that people blowing each other up is somehow better than gassing themselves to death.

Going by this, something like sarin dissipates quite quickly. Certainly a whole fuckload quicker than say...depleted uranium rounds, which still are used. Mustard gas? Yeah, that's worse. Know what's also pretty bad? high penetration rounds given to infantry with very little training engaged in urban warfare.

Now, i've provided sources for my position. Do you have sources for yours?

Chlorine is a nerve gas?

Gas masks stop nerve gas now?

Saying "it doesn't make sense because he has bombs" doesn't make any sense, because the entire point of using chemical weapons is that they're more effective than bombs, especially against poorly-funded rebel types who can't afford proper countermeasures.

i'd say the main advantage is that they're better at preserving infrastructure. Provided that they dont use something that takes a long time to dissipate, obv.

 

[TheRealTalker]

really the whole clouding the truth with assumptions again in order to try and dodge the reality of Assad using chemical weapons AGAIN is overly silly


as if all the images and multiple sources are all bogus when it suits you

Spoiler

(of course use the same sources when it is not Assad though because that is fine /s)

 

[AcademicSaucer]

It was banned because it was considered unsoldierly. Or dishonorable. Or whatever silly term one prefers to pretend that people blowing each other up is somehow better than gassing themselves to death.

Going by this, something like sarin dissipates quite quickly. Certainly a whole fuckload quicker than say...depleted uranium rounds, which still are used. Mustard gas? Yeah, that's worse. Know what's also pretty bad? high penetration rounds given to infantry with very little training engaged in urban warfare.

Now, i've provided sources for my position. Do you have sources for yours?

Where is white phosphorus in that scale?, because both Russia and the US have been using that shit in Syria.

Overall is a really shitty situation in Syria, hopefully the SDF can take Raqqa quickly and atleast ISIS can stop being a big player in the Syrian conflict.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

They went after the chlorine gas by targeting the factory, doesn't seem unlikely that they'd go after the other. We already know ISIS can make it too.

Is it more effective than dropping more bombs? Because it's more effective at getting support for an invasion.



I don't know, apparently, yes:



Probably useful against their chlorine gas too.

Everybody can make chlorine gas. I can make it in my bathroom. Saying "We know ISIS can make chlorine gas" is a meaningless statement.

Gas masks are indeed useful against chlorine gas, as it's an actual gas that you have to inhale. Except that this is a suspected sarin gas attack. Sarin is a nerve gas. Nerve gas (which, despite the name, is actually a liquid) is absorbed through the skin.

Nobody seriously believes that there's even the slightest chance of a US invasion of Syria at this point.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Assad needs to go. Fuck I agree with McCain now.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

We don't know what happened, but Assad using chemical weapons doesn't make sense when he has bombs and is being watched carefully.

With Obama out of the picture, you honestly think the current U.S administration is keeping their eyes on Assad or give a shit about what happens in Syria? You think the Russians care?

 

[TheRedSnifit]

It was banned because it was considered unsoldierly. Or dishonorable. Or whatever silly term one prefers to pretend that people blowing each other up is somehow better than gassing themselves to death.

Going by this, something like sarin dissipates quite quickly. Certainly a whole fuckload quicker than say...depleted uranium rounds, which still are used. Mustard gas? Yeah, that's worse. Know what's also pretty bad? high penetration rounds given to infantry with very little training engaged in urban warfare.

Now, i've provided sources for my position. Do you have sources for yours?

Depleted uranium rounds and armor-piercing rounds are more dangerous than nerve gas? What? It evaporating quickly is only a plus if you believe that inhaling fumes is perfectly safe, and that gasses don't spread faster through an environment than liquids. Sarin fumes can still kill via skin exposure, by the way, and in urban areas it can take days to dissipate.

Nobody does chemical warfare because poison gasses are shitty weapons against enemy soldiers, who carry special gear for the occasion. The only people you can reliably kill with chemical agents are civilians, who don't usually have NBC suits lying about in their basements. Armies would happily sling poison gas about if they thought there was strategic value, "honor" be damned. Understandably, weapons which have zero purpose except the mass slaughter of civilians are going to be looked down upon compared to weapons with actual military value, like DU rounds.

I'd say the main advantage is that they're better at preserving infrastructure. Provided that they dont use something that takes a long time to dissipate, obv.

It's very good at preserving their suited-up soldiers as well.

 

[Tallshortman]

This attack is a suspected sarin gas attack, not a chlorine gas attack.

Yup which with chlorine it's not illegal to have in non weaponized forms but there's no other use for sarin besides as a weapon. Meaning, Assad either never followed the agreement or broke it afterward and started sarin production.

 

[m_shortpants]

Saw a picture of a father holding his two children, both dead.

Fuck everyone involved in this.

 

[sazzy]

Something doesn't add up here.

Why would the Syrian army use chemical weapons that would only kill 58 people when a barrel bomb could probably kill more with less political fallout.

Who gains from the use of chemical weapons??? Assad's opponents would gain way more from this than he would.

Doesn't make sense.

Could be several reasons:

1- they are testing a batch of toxic gas they just made

2- cause terror and weaken resolve of people and towns still holding out against the regime, as media leaks out of this attack site

3- there may have been many more chemical attacks over many weeks, we just happen to find out about this one

4- assad/Russians are testing trump

.

 

[Jackpot]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/04/syria-chemical-attack-idlib-province

Weapons expert says Russian claim that airstrike hit ‘terrorist warehouse’ in Idlib province is fanciful

Early on Wednesday, the Russian defence ministry claimed a Syrian airstrike had hit a “terrorist warehouse” containing an arsenal of “toxic substances” destined for fighters in Iraq. The ministry did not state if the attack was deliberate.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Hamish de Bretton Gordon, director of Doctors Under Fire and former commanding officer of the UK Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) Regiment, said this claim was “completely untrue”.

“No I think this [claim] is pretty fanciful, no doubt the Russians trying to protect their allies,” he said. “Axiomatically, if you blow up sarin, you destroy it.”

“It’s very clear it’s a sarin attack,” he added. “The view that it’s an al-Qaida or rebel stockpile of sarin that’s been blown up in an explosion, I think is completely unsustainable and completely untrue.”

oops.

And I'm sure it was ISIS planes bombing hospitals in yet another false flag attack, amirite?

Hours after the attack, a hospital treating the injured was also hit. Images taken inside the clinic appeared to depict the blast as it happened. Photographs and videos taken at the scene and in evacuation areas nearby showed rows of small, lifeless children, some with foam visible near their mouths.

Save the Children said at least 11 children were among the casualties.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/04/syria-chemical-attack-idlib-province





oops.

And I'm sure it was ISIS planes bombing hospitals in yet another false flag attack, amirite?

Yeah, I was pretty sure that you can't just drop bombs on sarin containers and it sprays everywhere, but I wasn't sure. Nice to see confirmation.

Sijil, post if you're okay.

 

[blastprocessor]

That video is highly disturbing

 

[Skyzard]

Well, that's bad. Though he has written previously about how he is sure the Syrian regime is to blame for chemical attacks.

I wonder how he knows sarin would be completely destroyed.

Sarin is combustible.
The agent may burn but does not ignite readily.
Fire may produce irritating, corrosive, and/or toxic gases.

 

[MisterFalcon]

I wonder how he knows sarin would be completely destroyed.

This would typically be something the commanding officer of the UK Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) Regiment would know.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Well, that's bad. Though he has written previously about how he is sure the Syrian regime is to blame for chemical attacks.

I wonder how he knows sarin would be completely destroyed.

The Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment was a specialist expeditionary unit of the British armed forces. Personnel of the Joint CBRN Regiment were trained in the detection, identification and monitoring of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Chemical,_Biological,_Radiation_and_Nuclear_Regiment

A puzzle.

 

[Toxi]

That video is highly disturbing

I feel sick. Me and the other people of my country helped create this hell with our apathy.

 

[Hypemaster]

Fuck assad and his dumbass regime

 

[TheRealTalker]

Russia blamed the rebels again

you know with imaginary airforce... while providing no proof but that is okay... it is all those Putin/Assad fanboys/girls need

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

UN is holding a meeting right now about it.

 

[Ultramantaro1]

No one wants an invasion of Syria. What is the next best thing? No fly zone? We don't want to help Assad, but helping the rebels means arming radical islamic fighters. There's no way to support either side and come out clean, and staying out makes the west complicit in the massacre.

Feels like a no-win. What tangible solutions are available? Brokering a peace deal or ceasefire seems impossible.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

Saw a picture of a father holding his two children, both dead.

Fuck everyone involved in this.

Yeah I saw that on Reddit. Those children were conceived, born, and died in a warzone. It's soul-crushingly depressing to think about.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Info on Sarin Gas

https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/849630760852217856

1. Thread: some background for people looking for more information on the use of sarin as a weapon.

2. The nerve agent sarin was first discovered in Nazi Germany in the famous IG Farben factory (same one that produced Zyklon B).

3. The scientists were initially looking to make a stronger insecticide that would disrupt an insect's nervous system.

4. SARIN is an acronym for 4 scientists who discovered it: Gerhard Schrader, Otto Ambros, Colonel Rudiger & van der Linde (”in" in Linde).

5. Schrader himself almost got extremely sick while discovering it & realized what he had produced. The Nazi govt immediately told Schrader

6. to forget about insects and focus on weaponizing it. The Nazis, though, never used sarin during WWII.

7. There have been only four confirmed uses of sarin as a weapon in history, two of them by Assad himself.

8. The 1st confirmed use of sarin was March 16, 1988 when Saddam Hussein used the gas in Halabja killing 5000 Kurds.

9. The 2nd use occurred on March 20, 1995 when the Japanese religious movement Aum Shinrikyo released sarin on 3 subway lines in Tokyo.

11. The 3rd time was by Assad regime on August 21, 2013 in East Ghouta.

*Edit:

Also one uncorfimed one near Hama:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...cal-weapons-civilians-sarin-gas-a7474146.html {December 2016}

12. Estimates of death toll vary, but the US government concluded that 1429 people died, including 426 children.

BACKGROUND

The Syrian regime maintains a stockpile of numerous chemical agents, including mustard, sarin, and VX and has thousands of munitions that can be used to deliver chemical warfare agents.

Syrian President Bashar al-Asad is the ultimate decision maker for the chemical weapons program and members of the program are carefully vetted to ensure security and loyalty. The Syrian Scientific Studies and Research Center (SSRC) – which is subordinate to the Syrian Ministry of Defense – manages Syria's chemical weapons program.

13. The United Nations also said that they found ”clear and convincing evidence" that sarin was used in East Ghouta.

14. The fourth time was yesterday in #KhanSheikhoun, where the death toll has now risen to over 70.

15/15. So, to reiterate, of the four times sarin has been used as a weapon in HISTORY, Assad is reportedly responsible for two of them.

 

[D23]

An aftermath video here. Haven't seen it posted yet. It has some of the same footage as the Al Jazeera article in the op.

It is highly disturbing to say the least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7pNJiNBus

Oh my god. I feel so helpless... what can we do to help?

Omg...

 

[Snowybreak]

Lol man Sijil a hezbollah supporter/wannabe member who will accuse you of being an al quaeda member/supporter if you disagree. Never be surprised by who you can find on GAF.

Seriously ask him if he supports Hezbollah.

There's little point in engaging with these types of people because they're akin to your hardcore trump supporter who lives in their own reality bubble.

Seriously? Hezbollah? Ugh. Well, another name on the list never hurts.

 

[ChemicalCutthroat]

UN is holding a meeting right now about it.

I look forward to the sternly worded ineffectual letter of condemnation.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

I look forward to the sternly worded ineffectual letter of condemnation.

"Here is an very angry letter. Hold out your hand for a slap on the wrist."

 

[TheRealTalker]

Also were are your sources?

apparently afp and independent journalist don't count

https://twitter.com/GebeilyM

this isn't even the first time Assad used a multitude of chemical weapons

some don't even make it to the news.... I mean this is the dude that had a genocidal prison for goodness sake: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1341554

 

[FreedomFighter]

This just doesn't make sense. SAA making consistent progress in Hama, Idlib, etc., what would be the need to use chemical weapons on civilians a day before peace talks resume in Geneva?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[reckless]

This just doesn't make sense. SAA making consistent progress in Hama, Idlib, etc., what would be the need to use chemical weapons on civilians a day before peace talks resume in Geneva?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Why not? No one is going to stop them or do anything about it.

And no one cares about peace talks in this war.

 

[Jackpot]

This just doesn't make sense. SAA making consistent progress in Hama, Idlib, etc., what would be the need to use chemical weapons on civilians a day before peace talks resume in Geneva?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Oh wow, that completes the list of Russian stooges playing down war crimes because the concept of people with no regard for human life carrying out massacres that may come back to bite them in the long-run is an impossible concept.

"Why would people known to have used chemical weapons on civilians use chemical weapons on civilians? It makes no sense!"

 

[RustyNails]

Saw a picture of a father holding his two children, both dead.

Fuck everyone involved in this.

.

 

[Coriolanus]

Depleted uranium rounds and armor-piercing rounds are more dangerous than nerve gas? What? It evaporating quickly is only a plus if you believe that inhaling fumes is perfectly safe, and that gasses don't spread faster through an environment than liquids. Sarin fumes can still kill via skin exposure, by the way, and in urban areas it can take days to dissipate.

Nobody does chemical warfare because poison gasses are shitty weapons against enemy soldiers, who carry special gear for the occasion. The only people you can reliably kill with chemical agents are civilians, who don't usually have NBC suits lying about in their basements. Armies would happily sling poison gas about if they thought there was strategic value, "honor" be damned. Understandably, weapons which have zero purpose except the mass slaughter of civilians are going to be looked down upon compared to weapons with actual military value, like DU rounds.

Could you provide evidence for your assertions? I'd be more than glad to engage with them, if you're willing to make the effort.

as for depleted uranium, yes, it is worse. Dear fucking gods, is it worse. No comment on other sorts of AP rounds, you're the one introducing that argument, so i've no particular desire to engage with it.

Do keep in mind that "which weapon is worse" is just a side argument, tho, limited unto itself.

 

[ZOONAMI]

So why would Assad even do this (not at all saying he didn't do this)? Have the rebels made legitimate advancements in ousting him or something recently?

It's just so fucking crazy and awful he had to of been thinking about the international response. Maybe he thinks Trump is in bed with the Russians so there won't be any US response?

Will the U.K. or Germany do anything?

If China wanted to make a bold move they could roll in and say alright we are the new world police?

Edit nvm Russia and china voted against UN sanctions on Syria for previous use of chemical weapons. Fucking china.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Also, could thread title be updated with increased death count?

 

[Braag]

An aftermath video here. Haven't seen it posted yet. It has some of the same footage as the Al Jazeera article in the op.

It is highly disturbing to say the least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7pNJiNBus

Shouldn't have watch this.

Fucking hell... Fuck everyone involved in this.

 

[Boy Wander]

How that Russian ambassador can sit in front of the U.N and blatantly lie his fucking face off is beyond belief. Do the Russian people actually believe the horseshit their leaders spout?

 

[Woorloog]

How that Russian ambassador can sit in front of the U.N and blatantly lie his fucking face off is beyond belief. Do the Russian people actually believe the horseshit their leaders spout?

Russian internal media paints the West as attacking Russia without cause, as villains. It is but one big propaganda apparatus. So, yeah, they believe, and those who don't, they get arrested or shot or otherwise hounded for being opposition.

At such high level of power, people don't care, or if they do care, they can't show it or they lose their power.
Also, if Russia wasn't actually involved, what they say is not a lie necessarily. Of course, if they weren't part of it, then they certainly turn blind eye to Assad's actions which in this case is unofficial acceptance of use of WMDs. Extremely worrying either way.

 

[Boy Wander]

Russian internal media paints the West as attacking Russia without cause, as villains. It is but one big propaganda apparatus. So, yeah, they believe, and those who don't, they get arrested or shot or otherwise hounded for being opposition.

At such high level of power, people don't care, or if they do care, they can't show it or they lose their power.
Also, if Russia wasn't actually involved, what they say is not a lie necessarily. Of course, if they weren't part of it, then they certainly turn blind eye to Assad's actions which in this case is unofficial acceptance of use of WMDs. Extremely worrying either way.

Well even if they weren't involved, their ambassador sat in the U.N meeting and said that there were government air strikes but that they hit a factory run by rebels where chemical weapons were being stored.

 

[TheRealTalker]

So why would Assad even do this (not at all saying he didn't do this)? Have the rebels made legitimate advancements in ousting him or something recently?
.

Multiple fronts were opened up in Hama were "SAA" (Hezbollah, Shia Militia, etc..) lost ground to multiple offenses

then Turkey's Euphrates Shield ended and a bunch of FSA rebels were free to aid the offensive

 

[Woorloog]

Well even if they weren't involved, their ambassador sat in the U.N meeting and said that there were government air strikes but that they hit a factory run by rebels where chemical weapons were being stored.

Covering for Assad, of course. When i wondered if they were involved, i meant the attack direct, not the political consequences we're now seeing.

Kinda surprised Russia is OK with WMD use but perhaps Assad slipped his leash. Cover this and keep an eye on him in the future.

 

[Boy Wander]

Covering for Assad, of course. When i wondered if they were involved, i meant the attack direct, not the political consequences we're now seeing.

Kinda surprised Russia is OK with WMD use but perhaps Assad slipped his leash. Cover this and keep an eye on him in the future.

It just amazes me that leaders of a supposed modern nation can give such little value to life that they'd rather lie for some two-bit dictator who would be fuck all without their support. This is basically cold war level stuff. It's never really gone away, has it. Russia and China veto sanctions. Nothings changed since the Cold War supposedly ended.

 

[BeforeU]

She looks like the person who would break up with you because you're not a Christian.

Why would she even go out with you in the first place? Checkmate

 

[Woorloog]

It just amazes me that leaders of a supposed modern nation can give such little value to life that they'd rather lie for some two-bit dictator who would be fuck all without their support. This is basically cold war level stuff. It's never really gone away, has it. Russia and China veto sanctions. Nothings changed since the Cold War supposedly ended.

Nothing has ever changed really. The details have, but not the core of human existence that is conflict.

The Cold War as it was ended. But the power structures never went away. Nor will they, at least not anytime soon, and even then, i reckon they'll just transform. Even if one power is destroyed, another will rise, or split away, as happened after the World War II (Allies became the West and East). Though with luck there is a period of peace between these events.

In Syria's case, i guess Russia is playing a long-term game. By supporting Assad now, they will have a playing piece later on. It is just realpolitik, and in realpolitik, no thought is spared for normal people and life except as means to win points (eg humanitarian aid is a propaganda victory more so than anything else).

EDIT The above sounds cynical and it is. But i'm an optimist and i expect there is a way out ultimately. But finding it is difficult, though ultimately worth it.

 

[Y-Z]

Multiple fronts were opened up in Hama were "SAA" (Hezbollah, Shia Militia, etc..) lost ground to multiple offenses

then Turkey's Euphrates Shield ended and a bunch of FSA rebels were free to aid the offensive

This was almost completely reversed at the time. The need to use chemical weapons, especially at this location is really weird.

Also weird to see the western governments act so outraged after being quiet on Syria for a while. Especially seeing as the U.S. Lead coalition kills a whole lot of innocent people themselves).

Please don't mistake this post as trying to speak good about this horrible deed, i just don't like the fact the media seems silent about the killings in Syria lately. I hope there will be an end to this war soon.

 

[Liha]

It just amazes me that leaders of a supposed modern nation can give such little value to life that they'd rather lie for some two-bit dictator who would be fuck all without their support. This is basically cold war level stuff. It's never really gone away, has it. Russia and China veto sanctions. Nothings changed since the Cold War supposedly ended.

Where have you been the past 6 years? China and Russia supported the resolution against Libya and what is the result? The west betrayed them and made a regime change, Libya is a second Somalia now and a gateway for a new refugee crisis.

 

[Woorloog]

Where have you been the past 6 years? China and Russia supported the resolution against Libya and what is the result? The west betrayed them and made a regime change, Libya is a second Somalia now and a gateway for a new refugee crisis.

Not sure which is them here, Russia/China or Libya? And how were they betrayed? Just curious on your thinking.

 

[Liha]

Not sure which is them here, Russia/China or Libya? And how were they betrayed? Just curious on your thinking.

On 19 March 2011, a multi-state NATO-led coalition began a military intervention in Libya, ostensibly to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973. The United Nations Intent and Voting was to have "an immediate ceasefire in Libya, including an end to the current attacks against civilians, which it said might constitute crimes against humanity" ... "imposing a ban on all flights in the country's airspace – a no-fly zone – and tightened sanctions on the Qadhafi regime and its supporters."

In 2015 through 2016 the British parliament's Foreign Affairs Select Committee conducted an extensive and highly critical inquiry into the British involvement in the civil war. It concluded that the early threat to civilians had been overstated and that the significant Islamist element in the rebel forces had not been recognised, due to an intelligence failure. By summer 2011 the initial limited intervention to protect Libyan civilians had become a policy of regime change.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya#Criticism


The leaders of China and Russia are no fools and have learned from Libya and the people who are responsible for the current mess are Sarkozy, Cameron and Obama/Clinton. Assad is a brutal dictator and no one can deny the fact that he is a war criminal but there is no place for moral in foreign policy. You don't have to agree with Russia or China but at least you have to understand why they act the way they do.

 

[TheRealTalker]

This was almost completely reversed at the time. The need to use chemical weapons, especially at this location is really weird.

Also weird to see the western governments act so outraged after being quiet on Syria for a while. Especially seeing as the U.S. Lead coalition kills a whole lot of innocent people themselves).

Please don't mistake this post as trying to speak good about this horrible deed, i just don't like the fact the media seems silent about the killings in Syria lately. I hope there will be an end to this war soon.

a) the coalition doing war crimes doesn't negate Assad's war crimes and larger total of civilian deaths then all individual factions in this war

b) the mainstream media only pushes stories that gain popularity... the fact that other Assad/Iran/US/ISIS/etc.. crimes are not reported or rather not giving attendance is due to the viewers who pay no attention about them thus lowering viewership and coverage

the stories get printed on the basic news sites like BBC, CNN, CBC, etc... but they don't make the main page because no one clicks on them

c) this was not completely reversed.... multiple causalities and loses still occurred for Assad forces, regardless of what Assadist propagandist say (which are usually lies since they are pathological liars and did worse crimes then lying) (as if they have a morale compass to not lie yet they massacred hundred of thousands

*Look at this live map:
https://syria.liveuamap.com/

d) Idlib isn't seiged like how Aleppo was later seiged or how eatern Damascus is close to SAA HQ and is surrounded by Assad territory.

It borders with Turkey and therefore is able to get a flow of food aid and NGO treatment, etc...

Assad has used chemical weapons in Idlib before and has used other tactics in order to forcefully gain support and control of certain regions.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...qmenas-sarmin-2015-barrel-bombs-a7375226.html
From foreign fighters to even doing resettlement of foreigners into his country to probe up a new population which favors him.

Iran repopulates Syria with Shia Muslims to help tighten regime's control

Having Trump's goverment release a statement recently favoring Assad in power, prompted the Assad regime to test the waters by using Sarin gas on the opposition. Seeing as he had no other long winded means to gain control of the area as bombing them wasn't bringing them to submission and multiple ground forces were continiously getting pushed back.

This isn't something new for Assad who used every tool at his disposal!


Assuming otherwise or stating that one doesn't understand why Assad (who has already has done this before) would do it again is either basing their assumption on ignorance or just pure conjecture, while the other argument has multiple sources, evidence, videos, photos, etc...

To toss all that aside and believe otherwise just basically believing in conspiracy theories. Which are fine when you are talking about something that won't harm anyone but this is HUMAN LIVES and baseless spouting and fogging the truth just leads to MORE DEATHS.

Assad doesn't want an opposition. He has killed more in Syria then anyone else and by a large margin :

http://www.businessinsider.com/assads-government-still-kills-way-more-civilians-than-isis-2015-2
http://syrianobserver.com/EN/News/3...d_Out_Percent_Civilian_Killings_Syria_Monitor

While Russia came along to kill even more

'More than 90%' of Russian airstrikes in Syria have not targeted Isis, US says

So we can discuss about whatboutism (which doesn't mean we can't condemn more then one thing) and never do something but individuals need to learn not to come here and spout lies which leads to genocides due to someone's ego to never be wrong.

 

[ponziacs]

So sad, I have a girl and boy twins as well just a month older than these two who died.