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Cheney/Edwards Debate Tonight...
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Catchpenny
Member
Screaming_Gremlin said:
I remember the comment and it sure didn't sound like he was cracking a joke. After the debate, one of Cheney's daughters repeated the claim that Cheney had never met Edwards. And yet:
Catchpenny
Member
Well, Cheney said he'd never met Edwards UNTIL the debate, and all they were doing was...sitting right next to each other.
Plus, they were seated right next to each other at a breakfast function...you think they didn't exchange a few words during the meal?
Plus, they were seated right next to each other at a breakfast function...you think they didn't exchange a few words during the meal?
warabi-mochi
Member
Makura said:
I'm not sure everyone a person meets is automatically a friend. Well, unless you're Anne Coulter.
Catchpenny
Member
I should point out that, yes, there are plenty of more important things that all of these men have lied about or distorted, particularly Dick Cheney. But when you're attacking someone on what is basically a matter of character, it makes you look like an ass to lie about it.
videogamer
Banned
Catchpenny said:
Assuming that Cheney used the word "met", then the photo could be correct. I actually suspect that Cheney was using it as a hyperbole to get a point across though.
what a great debate. early on, as cheney kept hammering edwards about kerry's senate votes concerning the military, i kept telling my friend, "edwards needs to bring up the bills that cheney authorized while he was secretary of defense that cut military projects..."
i was getting pretty pissed that he didn't, but finally, he got around to that fact.
cheney is clearly in charge of this country. if you didn't know that then, you know now. such a firm command of issues, and is able to actually articulate them without looking like a total dipshit.
so in that regard, i think edwards did well considering the opponent. edwards, to a fault, seemed a little bit too excited for the event. i couldn't help but think that edwards knew this debate and how well he does is condusive for a run in either 2008 or 2012. whether or not that's a good thing for him to be thinkign about during this time is up to you decide...
overall, cheney eeked out a win in the foreign policy, but edwards demolished cheney domestically.
i was getting pretty pissed that he didn't, but finally, he got around to that fact.
cheney is clearly in charge of this country. if you didn't know that then, you know now. such a firm command of issues, and is able to actually articulate them without looking like a total dipshit.
so in that regard, i think edwards did well considering the opponent. edwards, to a fault, seemed a little bit too excited for the event. i couldn't help but think that edwards knew this debate and how well he does is condusive for a run in either 2008 or 2012. whether or not that's a good thing for him to be thinkign about during this time is up to you decide...
overall, cheney eeked out a win in the foreign policy, but edwards demolished cheney domestically.
ErasureAcer
Banned
I think Edwards did a good job of showing how two-faced Cheney is...especially on his record as a congressman, his Halliburton ties, and on the economy. With that said, I think Edwards didn't win the debate because he was so unorganized. Always going back to other questions and really not giving complete answers.
With that said. Cheney only won on one point. Edwards' inexperience. I think he hammered that one home pretty good. I really don't think anyone won this debate. Gwen Eiffel did a HORRIBLE job as moderator. I watch her on the Newshour with Jim Lehrer...and she is much better over there...delivering news than moderating a debate.
Edwards made many good points...they were just really hard to notice because he didn't have them packaged as neatly as they should have been and he kept jumping around from questions in the past and even questions he was hoping to be asked in the future...he wasn't very focused.
Cheney was just blah. He really didn't seem to have much energy. As much as Edwards went negative...I think Cheney topped him. The guy had no vision and no explanation for what the Bush Administration would do to solve problems...heck he turned a question about lack of Jobs into something totally irrelevant. He sidestepped a lot of stuff...Edwards did a good job catching him for the most part.
With that said. Cheney only won on one point. Edwards' inexperience. I think he hammered that one home pretty good. I really don't think anyone won this debate. Gwen Eiffel did a HORRIBLE job as moderator. I watch her on the Newshour with Jim Lehrer...and she is much better over there...delivering news than moderating a debate.
Edwards made many good points...they were just really hard to notice because he didn't have them packaged as neatly as they should have been and he kept jumping around from questions in the past and even questions he was hoping to be asked in the future...he wasn't very focused.
Cheney was just blah. He really didn't seem to have much energy. As much as Edwards went negative...I think Cheney topped him. The guy had no vision and no explanation for what the Bush Administration would do to solve problems...heck he turned a question about lack of Jobs into something totally irrelevant. He sidestepped a lot of stuff...Edwards did a good job catching him for the most part.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Did you guys notice Cheney told people to go to http://www.factcheck.com ? If you go there, you get in big letters
WHY WE MUST NOT RE-ELECT PRESIDENT BUSH
Presumably he meant http://www.factcheck.org
WHY WE MUST NOT RE-ELECT PRESIDENT BUSH
Presumably he meant http://www.factcheck.org
JoshuaJSlone said:Did you guys notice Cheney told people to go to http://www.factcheck.com ? If you go there, you get in big letters
WHY WE MUST NOT RE-ELECT PRESIDENT BUSH
Presumably he meant http://www.factcheck.org
Oops! :lol
Joe said:
depends on what state you live in
http://www.michaelmoore.com/takeaction/vote/register.php
shoplifter
Member
Fatghost28 said:If capital gains and dividends were 100% tax free, I'd be pretty damn happy.
I'll pass on creating a class of landed elites, thank you. (Not that it's not close enough already)
IMO: Edwards wins on issues, Cheney wins on presence and general appearance of control.
ErasureAcer
Banned
we can register to vote on election day here in Minnesota. Any state that doesn't have this...is well...just scandalous. You should all run for political office and change that in your state.
Registering on election day is why Minnesota is constantly has the #1 turnout rate.
Registering on election day is why Minnesota is constantly has the #1 turnout rate.
Alcibiades
Member
I can see it now:
"I misspoke about meeting Sen. Edward, he and John Kerry voted against our troops. Which is worse?"
"I misspoke about meeting Sen. Edward, he and John Kerry voted against our troops. Which is worse?"
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I know polls are mostly looked down upon here, but I don't think I'm out of line in saying that neither of the major candidates are far enough ahead or behind to declare either a lost cause.Joe said:
Not that I'm interested in a political life, but yeah, that's the kind of pro-democracy reform I'm all over.ErasureAcer said:
Sweet jumping Jesus on a pogo stick.
Just got back from a friend's place. We popped in the MXC marathon tape after the debate for a much needed palate cleanser and drank all the booze we could find.
I will say this, and it pains me: John Edwards came off looking like a juvenile, lost kid that couldn't think for himself(note the repeated references to "John Kerry"). Dick Cheney came off looking like his very unamused and angry school teacher, who had to keep calling young Jonathon to task... Cheney was vicious throughout the debate, and he made one great departure from his robotic killing spree to have an actual human moment regarding his daughter. Then he flicked the switch and waded back in for the kill. Sweet fucking Christ.
Don't get me wrong, I think Edwards had him on several issues. But the way this debate looked, and the perception that the great unwashed masses will get from it, will clearly favor Cheney and by proxy Bush.
All this makes me do is wish that Kerry would have had the balls to pick Fightin' Joe Biden as his running mate. Biden would have eaten Darth Cheney for lunch and moved onto his next opponent. Alas, for what could have been!
Just got back from a friend's place. We popped in the MXC marathon tape after the debate for a much needed palate cleanser and drank all the booze we could find.
I will say this, and it pains me: John Edwards came off looking like a juvenile, lost kid that couldn't think for himself(note the repeated references to "John Kerry"). Dick Cheney came off looking like his very unamused and angry school teacher, who had to keep calling young Jonathon to task... Cheney was vicious throughout the debate, and he made one great departure from his robotic killing spree to have an actual human moment regarding his daughter. Then he flicked the switch and waded back in for the kill. Sweet fucking Christ.
Don't get me wrong, I think Edwards had him on several issues. But the way this debate looked, and the perception that the great unwashed masses will get from it, will clearly favor Cheney and by proxy Bush.
All this makes me do is wish that Kerry would have had the balls to pick Fightin' Joe Biden as his running mate. Biden would have eaten Darth Cheney for lunch and moved onto his next opponent. Alas, for what could have been!
shoplifter
Member
Flash polls (not the online ones) are coming up even for the most part. Cheney led one, Edwards another. Both were within margin of error.
I'm not posting them here, but I'm rather surprised that they're not leaning further towards Cheney.
\/\/ which is why i didn't post them
I'm not posting them here, but I'm rather surprised that they're not leaning further towards Cheney.
\/\/ which is why i didn't post them
The Chosen One
Member
I thought the debate was pretty close and you could make a good case for either one winning it. I was watching MSNBC and I just don't see how their entire panel thought Cheney crushed Edwards. Cheney did good, but I wouldn't see say he killed Edwards.
I thought it was a tie, with maybe Cheney with a slight edge. While I pretty much disagree with everything he said, he seemed more focus and he definitely knew his policies. He really did put Bush to shame more than anything else. Bush is definitely the dumb blond of the ticket. Cheney didn't just speak better, he also knew his shit. Bush can't speak AND he didn't know squat. I honestly think Cheney made it harder for Bush on Friday. Of the four candidates, Bush is the definite runt.
As for Edwards, I thought he had some really good moments. However, he didn't always answer the questions (neither did Cheney), which annoyed me. He also had a bad habit of going back to prior questions in the middle of new questions. This made him seem a bit disorganized and made it hard to follow. This also allowed Cheney to choose what he wanted to respond to. Either rebuttal the old question or address the new question, which ever one was easier.
Though towards the end I thought Edwards connected better with the average American. Cheney was trying to scare the public again with suitcase nukes and Edwards really focused on issues that affect the average American on a day to day basis. You really got the feeling that Kerry/Edwards want to do something drastic with Healthcare and other domestic issues. Whereas it seems Bush/Cheney don't have the same kind of urgency. For the most part, they think they're doing a great job.
Anyway, I look forward to Friday. Bush has his work cut out for him.
I thought it was a tie, with maybe Cheney with a slight edge. While I pretty much disagree with everything he said, he seemed more focus and he definitely knew his policies. He really did put Bush to shame more than anything else. Bush is definitely the dumb blond of the ticket. Cheney didn't just speak better, he also knew his shit. Bush can't speak AND he didn't know squat. I honestly think Cheney made it harder for Bush on Friday. Of the four candidates, Bush is the definite runt.
As for Edwards, I thought he had some really good moments. However, he didn't always answer the questions (neither did Cheney), which annoyed me. He also had a bad habit of going back to prior questions in the middle of new questions. This made him seem a bit disorganized and made it hard to follow. This also allowed Cheney to choose what he wanted to respond to. Either rebuttal the old question or address the new question, which ever one was easier.
Though towards the end I thought Edwards connected better with the average American. Cheney was trying to scare the public again with suitcase nukes and Edwards really focused on issues that affect the average American on a day to day basis. You really got the feeling that Kerry/Edwards want to do something drastic with Healthcare and other domestic issues. Whereas it seems Bush/Cheney don't have the same kind of urgency. For the most part, they think they're doing a great job.
Anyway, I look forward to Friday. Bush has his work cut out for him.
I give the clear edge to Cheney on this one, barring the possibility that the press makes an active effort to disprove some of the false assertions he made. But Karl Rove may as well have been writing the questions--the moderator stank. Many of her questions for Edwards were just a shade away from being rhetorical attacks themselves:
Meanwhile, Cheney gets softball questions and free shots at Edwards:
Weak.
Meanwhile, Cheney gets softball questions and free shots at Edwards:
Weak.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
I give a slight edge to Cheney for the debate even though he told so many blatant lies that I lost count. Both candidates were swinging punches left and right but Cheney just plain hit harder. Often times when John Edwards would bring up an issue Cheney wouldn't even feel the need to address it in his rebuttal. Instead he would choose to totally ignore it and go on the offensive. This marginalized several of Edward's claims. Edwards on the other hand would actually take the time to defend himself, which in turn lended credibility (in some people's eyes) to Cheney's remarks. I think Cheney had the better strategy. Don't get me wrong, there were times when Edwards simply had to defend himself and John Kerry (such as the global test issue) but there were other times when Cheney would make a weak claim against Edwards and then Edwards would spend several minutes defending himself instead of turning it around on Cheney. The Haliburton card should have been played a lot sooner and he should have talked about how Cheney did business with Iran and Lybia a lot more.
To Edward's credit he did manage to stand pretty toe-to-toe with Cheney last night on Iraq and he dominated domestic policy. But on the other hand I think that Iraq has become the issue for this election (even moreso than the war on terror) so that's why I give the final nod to Cheney since he won that part of the debate. Once again, to Edwards credit, I think he did an excellent job of separating Iraq from the war on terror. He really tried to drive that point home and he provided several references (such as the 9/11 commission) to back up his claim.
For those that care, the most commonly used word by Cheney was "terror/terrorirst" (shocker, I know). He used it 31 times. For Edwards it was Iraq. He said Iraq 25 times.
To Edward's credit he did manage to stand pretty toe-to-toe with Cheney last night on Iraq and he dominated domestic policy. But on the other hand I think that Iraq has become the issue for this election (even moreso than the war on terror) so that's why I give the final nod to Cheney since he won that part of the debate. Once again, to Edwards credit, I think he did an excellent job of separating Iraq from the war on terror. He really tried to drive that point home and he provided several references (such as the 9/11 commission) to back up his claim.
For those that care, the most commonly used word by Cheney was "terror/terrorirst" (shocker, I know). He used it 31 times. For Edwards it was Iraq. He said Iraq 25 times.
The lies that Cheney was spewing were annoying. I'm glad he is getting called out on them. The obvious one where he said he had never met Edwards before and then when he said he has never linked Iraq to 9/11. On hardball afterwards they showed a clip from Meet the Press from a year ago where he pretty clearly states that one of the reasons for invading Iraq was 9/11.
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