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Chilcot Report: The British public inquiry into the Iraq War published.

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Log4Girlz

Member
Nothing will happen to Blair. Nothing will ever happen to Bush. But here in the US, hey let's start another probe on Hilary's emails, god knows loads of people died due to her irresponsible actions.

The UK should really think twice before ever supporting the US in any act of aggression.
 

hunchback

Member
I disagree. It's possible there would have never been the demand for a report like this without them.

Also, if Tony Blair isn't a war criminal I don't know who is. Deliberately misled the public and instigated an illegal war which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

There are alot of war criminals for this. Blair, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Tenet and Rice. Feel free to throw in more names from your side of the pond.
 

Beefy

Member
Should be locked up, but like 99% of famous/ rich people nothing will happen. It wouldn't surprise me if some low level guy takes the flak though.
 
Stop invading the Middle East. Stop picking the scab. It has never worked. The consequences have always been unpredictable and awful.
 
This is a huge report and its going to take a while to go through it and look for the points of interest.

This is an early find of correspondence from Blair to Bush

awU9yJQ.jpg
 

Uzzy

Member
Pleasantly surprised it wasn't a whitewash. There's hope for the process after all!

Now we just need to ship Blair off to the Hague.
 
This is a huge report and its going to take a while to go through it and look for the points of interest.

This is an early find of correspondence from Blair to Bush

awU9yJQ.jpg
Nothing says "spread our values of freedom, democracy, tolerance and the rule of law" like telling 200 countries "fuck you guys, I've got my thin pretext, I'm going to war".

Gee, I wonder where that "ludicrous and distorted view of the US" was coming from.
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
It's nice in a way that this report has come out now so anyone that was thinking it's been an embarrassing couple of months to be British can rest assured that it's actually been embarrassing way way longer than that.
 
Dude's trying to tie it to 9/11, AQ and WMDs.

Because apparently the Blix briefing ceased to exist.

In my last updating, I also said that a decision to cooperate on substance was indispensable in order to bring, through inspection, the disarmament task to completion and to set the monitoring system on a firm course. Such cooperation, as I have noted, requires more than the opening of doors. In the words of resolution 1441 (2002) - it requires immediate, unconditional and active efforts by Iraq to resolve existing questions of disarmament - either by presenting remaining proscribed items and programmes for elimination or by presenting convincing evidence that they have been eliminated. In the current situation, one would expect Iraq to be eager to comply. While we were in Baghdad, we met a delegation from the Government of South Africa. It was there to explain how South Africa gained the confidence of the world in its dismantling of the nuclear weapons programme, by a wholehearted cooperation over two years with IAEA inspectors. I have just learned that Iraq has accepted an offer by South Africa to send a group of experts for further talks.

How much, if any, is left of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and related proscribed items and programmes? So far, UNMOVIC has not found any such weapons, only a small number of empty chemical munitions, which should have been declared and destroyed. Another matter - and one of great significance - is that many proscribed weapons and items are not accounted for. To take an example, a document, which Iraq provided, suggested to us that some 1,000 tonnes of chemical agent were "unaccounted for". One must not jump to the conclusion that they exist. However, that possibility is also not excluded. If they exist, they should be presented for destruction. If they do not exist, credible evidence to that effect should be presented.

We are fully aware that many governmental intelligence organizations are convinced and assert that proscribed weapons, items and programmes continue to exist. The US Secretary of State presented material in support of this conclusion. Governments have many sources of information that are not available to inspectors. Inspectors, for their part, must base their reports only on evidence, which they can, themselves, examine and present publicly. Without evidence, confidence cannot arise.

that third paragraph remains straight fire
 
Blair should be the next contestant on Love Island. They won't be able to extradite him for War Crimes as I don't think Love Island has an official extradition treaty with the UK or the Netherlands, and we all know they like to play hard ball with international politics.

Plus he'd obviously win Love Island.
 

Hazzuh

Member
It's nice in a way that this report has come out now so anyone that was thinking it's been an embarrassing couple of months to be British can rest assured that it's actually been embarrassing way way longer than that.

Interesting to think about the comparison between Brexit and the Iraq war. Chilcot shows the danger of focusing so much power in to one man. Blair cowed the cabinet, his party, the house of commons and the media. Brexit in many ways shows the danger of direct democracy. Almost exact opposites in that sense.

However, both are good examples of the undermining of parliamentary democracy in recent years. Politicians have so many alternative sources of power which they can use to undermine parliament. Both also expose the failure of the media to hold the political class to account.
 

Real Hero

Member
half of these journalists and the people who act like the war was the worst crime ever would have been rattling their sabres at the time, the public too
 

StayDead

Member
He SHOULD be tried for War Crimes, same as Bush. The amount of people who died as a direct result of that war (which continues even now due to ISIS and other groups left in Iraq) is unthinkable.
 
Blair didn't give an inch.

Tony Blair: I made a decision.

No shit Tony, but you know, actions/decisions have consequences.

Yeah but if he hadn't made that decision we could be sitting here saying why the fuck didn't he. That's likely why Cameron is resigning, too scared of the repercussions of making the Brexit choice. I hate violence I have seen first hand the taking of innocent lives, witnessed family's torn apart and there is never a winner, I doubt Blair sleeps well at night, just like Harry Truman in 1945, I was in favour of the war, I still am, just 200 yards from my house is a tree planted for the Kurdish children that Chemical Ali killed and who are always forgotten during this. The mistakes afterwards are what makes me angry, the half hearted post conflict plans and such that's the real bugbear in my opinion.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Pleasantly surprised it wasn't a whitewash. There's hope for the process after all!

Now we just need to ship Blair off to the Hague.

The Hague doesn't have jurisdiction for international acts of aggression, only crimes against humanity. The relevant body for trying Blair would be a Security Council tribunal; which the UK and US would veto.
 
The Hague doesn't have jurisdiction for international acts of aggression, only crimes against humanity. The relevant body for trying Blair would be a Security Council tribunal.


Given the absolute farce the security council is now, will never happen. It's completely and utterly ineffectual and well past its sell by date.
 
Yeah but if he hadn't made that decision we could be sitting here saying why the fuck didn't he. That's likely why Cameron is resigning, too scared of the repercussions of making the Brexit choice. I hate violence I have seen first hand the taking of innocent lives, witnessed family's torn apart and there is never a winner, I doubt Blair sleeps well at night, just like Harry Truman in 1945, I was in favour of the war, I still am, just 200 yards from my house is a tree planted for the Kurdish children that Chemical Ali killed and who are always forgotten during this. The mistakes afterwards are what makes me angry, the half hearted post conflict plans and such that's the real bugbear in my opinion.

Then you should remember how those attacks became possible

Frontline said:
What Hussein did not put on show this day were his most frightening weapons. According to intelligence sources, he has been developing his own sophisticated chemical, missile, and nuclear capacity. Three plants are now producing deadly chemical and biological weapons. Four complexes are involved in the research, development and testing of missiles. And at least four sites are involved in a uranium enrichment program to build nuclear weapons. To develop this sophisticated arsenal of non-conventional weapons, Saddam Hussein turned to the West.

Officially, most Western nations participated in a total arms embargo against Iraq during the 1980s, but as we shall see in this broadcast, Western companies, primarily in Germany and Great Britain, but also in the United States, sold Iraq the key technology for its chemical, missile, and nuclear programs. As we shall also see, many Western governments seemed remarkably indifferent, if not enthusiastic, about those deals. And here in Washington, the government consistently followed a policy which allowed and perhaps encouraged the extraordinary growth of Saddam Hussein's arsenal and his power.

there's some parallel in there with the taliban, probably.
 

SKINNER!

Banned
This is a huge report and its going to take a while to go through it and look for the points of interest.

This is an early find of correspondence from Blair to Bush

awU9yJQ.jpg

Fascinating language used there.

Just as casual as this

_90306213_1memowithyouwhatever.png


bff 4ever George :3 whatevs France
luv Tony xxxxxx <3 <3
 

Maledict

Member
half of these journalists and the people who act like the war was the worst crime ever would have been rattling their sabres at the time, the public too

I'd disagree there actually. Whilst certainly a lot of people have changed their minds about the war since it happened, the level of public opposition at the time was totally unprecedented. The biggest marches since the early 20th century if I recall?

A large swathe of the population was against this war from day 1, and it's only thanks to the Tories having Michael Howard as their leader (and Blair's direct charisma) that Labour managed to still get a hefty majority in 2005.
 

Hazzuh

Member
I'd disagree there actually. Whilst certainly a lot of people have changed their minds about the war since it happened, the level of public opposition at the time was totally unprecedented. The biggest marches since the early 20th century if I recall?

A large swathe of the population was against this war from day 1, and it's only thanks to the Tories having Michael Howard as their leader (and Blair's direct charisma) that Labour managed to still get a hefty majority in 2005.

To add to that, here is some polling from Yougov.

53/39 in favour at the start of the war. 35/53 by 2005 election.
 
I actually believe that Blair is convinced he made the right decision. I don't know that he did, but I do think he's being genuine about that assertion
 

Real Hero

Member
I'd disagree there actually. Whilst certainly a lot of people have changed their minds about the war since it happened, the level of public opposition at the time was totally unprecedented. The biggest marches since the early 20th century if I recall?

A large swathe of the population was against this war from day 1, and it's only thanks to the Tories having Michael Howard as their leader (and Blair's direct charisma) that Labour managed to still get a hefty majority in 2005.

oh yeah there was massive opposition but if it was put to a referendum I bet we would easily have gone to war
 

Hazzuh

Member
Yeah polls were in favour of war, was pretty much fear of what happened on 9/11 that led to the pro war opinion polls.

And the claim about the UK being "45 minutes from doom" or w/e. Press need to take responsibility. Turning Blair in to a pariah is the easiest thing to do but Iraq was a product of the New Labour style of doing politics. He didn't create that himself.

I actually believe that Blair is convinced he made the right decision. I don't know that he did, but I do think he's being genuine about that assertion

In many ways, it was the most principled stand he made in his career. The problem was that the decision on Iraq ultimately came down to the judgement of one man, that is a failure of our political system.
 

Dougald

Member
Yeah polls were in favour of war, was pretty much fear of what happened on 9/11 that led to the pro war opinion polls.

I remember some very heated discussions with people who had very heavily bought into the "terrorism" and "WMD" stuff which was going around. Most of whom have since changed their opinion, I'm sure. The climate was still very much one of fear and a lot of people were swept up in it
 
Of course I am well aware of how that became possible, doesn't mean that if Saddam had turned to Russia instead of the west it still wouldn't have happened, after all look at Syria with its Russian backers. If we are going to blame folk, maybe it's time we go back and find the real culprits rather than accuse those left to clean up the mess.

But he didn't.

The real culprits have been dead for quite a while now. Which is why it is so important not to repeat their mistakes. And if those that try to clean up the mess end up making an even bigger mess? Why yes, they should also be held responsible.

Fortunately the UK only agreed to bomb syria after devising a very solid plan of action.
 

Beefy

Member
I still think in the end Hussein would have needed to go. He was gasing and killing millions(?) of people. But the way we went about it and the plan ( aka no plan at all) for what happened afterwards was a complete fuck up. Then the lies etc. The whole thing was a mess that ended up costing many lives.
 
But he didn't.

The real culprits have been dead for quite a while now. Which is why it is so important not to repeat their mistakes. And if those that try to clean up the mess end up making an even bigger mess? Why yes, they should also be held responsible.

Fortunately the UK only agreed to bomb syria after devising a very solid plan of action.


I'm all in favour of learning lessons, just not in crucifying one person like it's a witch hunt which many have turned this into. It's time we all look back further, accept who was really to blame in the lead up to this, and make sure when we go to war we have no choice and good plans for afterwards.
 
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