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[3dmodeler]

But Nintendo games are most likely to pass censorship, they just need to localize them.

I think passing Chinese censors is the easy part, it's making a game that appeals to Chinese gamers that's going to be the biggest challenge. Based on the trends it just seems like most Chinese gamers play online only games which is why Sony and microsoft are in such a better position than Nintendo because they have a history of developing decent online multiplayer games. I also don't think Chinese gamers have much interest in single player campaigns which is a problem for nintendo because that's one of their greatest strengths.

 

[4Tran]

Might you be inclined to expand on the "kinds of risks" you talk about?

Mostly they have to find out what kind of games sell in China, and either make them themselves or find local partners who do and promote the hell out of those partners. It's going to take a lot of money, a lot of effort, a very good understanding of the Chinese market, and a willingness to do a lot of un-Nintendo things. I honestly don't think that Nintendo have it within themselves to do that; especially since there's a good chance of losing a lot of money in the short term. And to be fair, it's not as if Microsoft is very good at it either. Arguably, Sony isn't that much better off, but they were in a much better position to begin with, so they're now way in the lead.

But Nintendo games are most likely to pass censorship, they just need to localize them.

That's not the problem - the problem is that Nintendo doesn't have a presence in China so their mindshare is minimal. In that kind of environment, even if their entire catalog is available for sale, it's not going to interest a lot of Chinese gamers.

I'm surprised we still haven't seen a strong effort at penetrating the Chinese market from one of the big three. There are tens of millions of potential new customers there just waiting to be tapped.

Both Microsoft and Sony have made strong efforts - it's just that Sony's efforts have paid off a lot more. And that effort is precisely the reason this thread exists.

I think passing Chinese censors is the easy part, it's making a game that appeals to Chinese gamers that's going to be the biggest challenge. Based on the trends it just seems like most Chinese gamers play online only games which is why Sony and microsoft are in such a better position than Nintendo because they have a history of developing decent online multiplayer games. I also don't think Chinese gamers have much interest in single player campaigns which is a problem for nintendo because that's one of their greatest strengths.

I think that Chinese gamers are fine with single player campaigns, but they're going to be more along the lines of JRPGs and the like.

 

[Bioshocker]

MS was doing major advertising/marketing for Xbox in China wasnt it

It's no use as long as they're not releasing games Chinese gamers care about. There was virtually no reason at all for a Chinese to buy the Xbox One at launch. It still isn't.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

If Chinese console gamers are anything like the Far East and Southeast Asian console gamers, then it makes sense that PlayStation would be the console they buy.

Sure, Halo and Gears are nice, but quality shooters exist everywhere.

 

[partridge]

Translation: "We don't really know how to proceed in China". In many ways, China is going to be one of the most impenetrable markets for Nintendo - no nostalgic fans, no real interest in Nintendo-style games, and no real space for the games that really interest Chinese gamers. It's going to require a lot of rethinking for Nintendo to do well in China, and they're just not in position to do that right now.

I think there are still some nostalgia for Mario, as the original Super Mario Bros. game was everywhere in the 90s due to the proliferation of Famiclones in China.

 

[Cow Mengde]

I think there are still some nostalgia for Mario, as the original Super Mario Bros. game was everywhere in the 90s due to the proliferation of Famiclones in China.

Yeah, Contra, Mario, Pokemon, and quite a few others. I know Metroid and Zelda weren't a thing in China. I never heard of Zelda until I was in America.

 

[4Tran]

I think there are still some nostalgia for Mario, as the original Super Mario Bros. game was everywhere in the 90s due to the proliferation of Famiclones in China.

There's some, but because the Chinese market has changed so much, it doesn't look like it's anywhere nearly as sticky as it was in places where gaming consoles are much of a thing. Right now, Nintendo simply doesn't offer anything for most Chinese gamers, both in terms of games and in terms of gaming hardware. It's going to be real hard sell.

 

[t26]

I think passing Chinese censors is the easy part, it's making a game that appeals to Chinese gamers that's going to be the biggest challenge. Based on the trends it just seems like most Chinese gamers play online only games which is why Sony and microsoft are in such a better position than Nintendo because they have a history of developing decent online multiplayer games. I also don't think Chinese gamers have much interest in single player campaigns which is a problem for nintendo because that's one of their greatest strengths.

Falcom is definitely more popular in China than in the West.

 

[Terrell]

Mostly they have to find out what kind of games sell in China, and either make them themselves or find local partners who do and promote the hell out of those partners. It's going to take a lot of money, a lot of effort, a very good understanding of the Chinese market, and a willingness to do a lot of un-Nintendo things. I honestly don't think that Nintendo have it within themselves to do that; especially since there's a good chance of losing a lot of money in the short term. And to be fair, it's not as if Microsoft is very good at it either. Arguably, Sony isn't that much better off, but they were in a much better position to begin with, so they're now way in the lead.

None of this sounds like "risk", more like the standard practice for doing business in a new foreign market.

I think you oversell the necessity of Nintendo having to engage in some sort of a drastic change to their business model.

People said the same thing about Nintendo's entry into Korea back in the day, and the Wii, despite not having content "tailored to their market" handily outsold PS3 and Xbox 360, and the DS was... well, the DS did what the DS did. All that with a much-reduced software catalog for both, no less, due to only releasing titles that were translated into Korean.
Wii U clearly never saw a release and 3DS didn't take off due to an even more reduced software library then before, which gamers in Korea were unhappy with and the thing that will make a change in Korea (according to analysts, anyways) is the release of region-free hardware so English and Japanese speaking residents of Korea aren't hampered by region locking. All signs point to the Switch being unlikely to have a region lock so far.

So you'll forgive me if I'm not going to take your word on the idea that Nintendo has to change its entire business model to see success, when we have been through this dog-and-pony show on American gaming forums discussing what we think a foreign nation won't want in their own market.

 

[4Tran]

None of this sounds like "risk", more like the standard practice for doing business in a new foreign market.

I think you oversell the necessity of Nintendo having to engage in some sort of a drastic change to their business model.

People said the same thing about Nintendo's entry into Korea back in the day, and the Wii, despite not having content "tailored to their market" handily outsold PS3 and Xbox 360, and the DS was... well, the DS did what the DS did. All that with a much-reduced software catalog for both, no less, due to only releasing titles that were translated into Korean.
Wii U clearly never saw a release and 3DS didn't take off due to an even more reduced software library then before, which gamers in Korea were unhappy with and the thing that will make a change in Korea (according to analysts, anyways) is the release of region-free hardware so English and Japanese speaking residents of Korea aren't hampered by region locking. All signs point to the Switch being unlikely to have a region lock so far.

So you'll forgive me if I'm not going to take your word on the idea that Nintendo has to change its entire business model to see success, when we have been through this dog-and-pony show on American gaming forums discussing what we think a foreign nation won't want in their own market.

What product does Nintendo have coming out that's as accessible as the Wii?

 

[Terrell]

What product does Nintendo have coming out that's as accessible as the Wii?

So first, you were talking about products having to bring software solutions tailored to the desires of a foreign audience, and now you're talking about broad universal 'accessibility' of the hardware product? (BTW, accessibility probably isn't the word you're looking for)

Goalposts are heavy, dude, be sure to lift with your legs.

But to answer your question, Switch has a capacity for a broad appeal from a hardware standpoint. DS still grossly outsold Wii in Korea, and that's because portability is what will sell dedicated hardware in higher numbers in most regions of Asia. That's not a certainty, and I would never propose it as such, but since you asked the question, I gave an answer, even if it was way out of bounds from your original argument.

 

[4Tran]

So first, you were talking about products having to bring software solutions tailored to the desires of a foreign audience, and now you're talking about broad universal 'accessibility' of the hardware product? (BTW, accessibility probably isn't the word you're looking for)

You're conflating a number of different concepts and making a lot of assumptions. Let's look at the basis of what you were saying in the previous post, and see how it's supposed to apply to China today. You said that Nintendo doesn't have to do anything to cater to the Chinese market because the Wii was successful in Korea despite not doing so. However, why was the Wii successful? It should be relatively obvious that it was successful there for the same reason that it was successful everywhere - accessibility.

However, there's little to suggest that Nintendo's products are going to have the kind of universal appeal that the Wii had, so your argument seems weak. Furthermore, you said that I was describing standard business practice, and I was - for companies other than Nintendo that is. What happened when Nintendo saw a bit of hardship in Asia - they retreated. This kind of practice isn't going to endear themselves with China.

But to answer your question, Switch has a capacity for a broad appeal from a hardware standpoint.

On what do you base this on?

 

[Wag]

I guess they prefer japanese games?

99.9% dating simulators.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Ah remember the good old days when there were people saying how China would never buy Sony products because the Chinese hated the Japanese? Those were part frustrating and part amusing...

 

[Terrell]

You're conflating a number of different concepts and making a lot of assumptions. Let's look at the basis of what you were saying in the previous post, and see how it's supposed to apply to China today. You said that Nintendo doesn't have to do anything to cater to the Chinese market because the Wii was successful in Korea despite not doing so. However, why was the Wii successful? It should be relatively obvious that it was successful there for the same reason that it was successful everywhere - accessibility.

However, there's little to suggest that Nintendo's products are going to have the kind of universal appeal that the Wii had, so your argument seems weak.

There are plenty of 'accessible' products, and they don't inherently guarantee sales success, so the only weak argument is your implication that hardware somehow makes software irrelevant to the conversation.
In the video game industry, good hardware must be matched with desirable software. So arguing Wii's hardware somehow magically erased this necessity is ridiculous, since you were making an argument about software and the need to tailor it to foreign markets to find success, yet tried to use the Wii as an exception to the rule, like it would have sold without software that was palatable to consumers that (get this) didn't need to be re-engineered for foreign markets to still be appealing to them, as your original line of thinking suggested was required.

Again, you moved the goalpost, and quite terribly, I might add. The only weak argument to be had is the one you're trying to make (as a misdirection, I might add) that Wii would have sold anywhere regardless of its software output after arguing that such a thing would not be the case because it didn't tailor software exclusively to the market they entered.

Furthermore, you said that I was describing standard business practice, and I was - for companies other than Nintendo that is.

OH, so this is a "because Nintendo" fallacy. Gotcha.

What happened when Nintendo saw a bit of hardship in Asia - they retreated. This kind of practice isn't going to endear themselves with China.

Where exactly did they "retreat"? They downscaled their employee count in Korea and closed a division in Taiwan to restructure their non-mainland Chinese operations to Hong Kong. Business restructuring =/= "retreat".

On what do you base this on?

I pretty clearly outlined what I base this on, but considering it has no relevance to the discussion you were actually trying to engage in that software output has to be tailored to a foreign audience to achieve success, I don't really see a need to help you wiggle out of addressing the actual discussion with this distraction.

 

[patapuf]

As long as Western game studios don't start blatantly pandering to the Chinese like Hollywood is doing, then I'm all for another market opening up.

They already do, in the games that are relevant in China.

See a lot of Blizzard stuff, Lol and Dota, and other big PC games.

 

[4Tran]

OH, so this is a "because Nintendo" fallacy. Gotcha.

No, it's because Nintendo is ultra conservative so they are unwilling to spend the money and effort to penetrate the Chinese market.

 

[v1oz]

Based on general Chinese tastes in games, Sony and Nintendo should have the China market locked down.

In Taiwan and HK where consoles have been sold for quite a while officially now, it's pretty much like Japan. China will just be like TW and HK but magnified.

I thought Nintendo had a major Chinese Subsidiary called iQue? It's co-owned by Wei Yen who was a board member at SGI, MIPS, ARTX, ATI, Mosys, AiLive and now Acer. He's basically involved in all the major Nintendo partners or related tech companies. I think he is originally from mainland China. He was heavily involved with the Wii Motion Plus. Plus the N64 and Gamecube graphics chips.