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[Manics]

People like you are trying to find anyway in the world to blame WWE in this. All they knew at the time when they were putting the show together is that Benoit and family were dead. That is all. The leaks didn't start until the show was almost over. So one of your top wrestlers and fan favorites is dead, that is all you really know, so in your mind you should just ignore it, right?

Who the hell is trying to BLAME the WWE? I just said it was stupid of them to put on a tribute show BEFORE knowing what happened. Reports are Benoit and family were dead -- SOMEONE in the WWE had to know of Benoit's past anger management issues, SOMEONE had to know his wife had a restraining order on him a few years back then dropped it. If you sit back and think about that you say to yourself "maybe we should wait on the details of how him and his whole family are dead before we go and glorify his past as a wrestler" It's not like he was found dead ALONE. If he was alone, hell go ahead with the tribute, if he killed himself through drugs or other means then so be it, at least noone else is dead. The fact that his entire family was reported dead should have made them realize they should wait on any tribute show.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

a part of me hopes that soon as Vince Apologizes it is discovered that Benoit never killed anyone.

 

[unomas]

Crazy indeed. I don't think he should apologise. They did what they thought was the right thing to do at the time and I don't think it was unreasonable. They always assemble a tribute show as quick as possible when someone dies (I'm amazed at how fast they can do it actually, although I've never seen one since I don't get Raw or SD here).

Agreed, nobody that knew Benoit thought he was capable of something like this and with the limited time WWE had they didn't know what to do. They decided on a tribute show for an obvious reason, nobody in that company thought Benoit was capable of something like that and at that point decent information wasn't available. I'm not blaming Vince or WWE for that, it's easy to call someone out after the fact.

 

[Kreed]

If you had said "doctors" or "teachers" you might have had something. As it is, no, that's not something.

Who are you to say their opinion is not "something" just because their career choice?

 

[Lyte Edge]

I feel bad for the WWE wrestlers who poured their hearts out on TV and for Vince McMahon, who aired a tribute show for Benoit before knowing everything that happened. I feel bad for Benoit's family, and what what happened was truly sad.

But I don't feel bad for Benoit. What he did was completely inexcusable, and he doesn't deserve any kind of tribute for his wrestling ability after what he did. I was just as shocked as everyone else to hear that he killed his family, and I wanted to not believe it, but he did it guys. He killed his family and then he killed himself. He doesn't deserve to be honored after that. I don't think that the WWE should try to erase him completely from their history, but I can certainly understand them not wanting anything to do with him now.

I want to also say that perhaps this will serve as a good lesson for the WWE and that they won't go forward with stupid fake death angles, but I'm sure we'll see this type of storyline again seven years down the road. :/

Vince McMahon doesn't need to apologize to anyone for running the tribute show; they didn't know what happened at the time. That's all that needs to be said.

 

[Speevy]

They even wrestled during the Eddie Guererro tribute show, and Eddie didn't kill anyone.

I think the lack of a show was not a tribute to Benoit, as much as it was a response to the shocking circumstances.

 

[bjork]

Could you have lived without seeing Paris Hilton mentioned every five minutes? Of course you miss the point and how it was directed toward the "'cybersluthing and psychoanalysis" from behind the monitor.

Grieving is natural. What you have here in 8 pages is not.

This is NeoGAF, dude. Why would you expect "natural" here? This is where people sell naked pictures of their girlfriends for a PSP, for ****'s sake.

Perhaps it's not respectful of the dead to be speculating upon this as people have, but they are, so there's really nothing to be done about it. If you're not a fan of this type of discussion, don't take some moral highroad like you're above it. Just don't participate, simple.

 

[Fatalah]

After further inflection, I believe this wasn't a right-minded Chris Benoit.

There is no way the man that his friends and co-workers can attest for with so much love, is the same man that committed these acts.

If a sane Chris Benoit knew of his murderous actions, he would be right in our boat. "How could he?" Well, he didn't. His paranoia or ****ed up head did this.

 

[Speevy]

Correction: O P A is where olimario (and just olimario) does stuff like that.

 

[Aisenherz]

I've talked to five different independent wrestlers today for a story I'm writing. They all said Benoit was the reason they got into the business. I'd say that's something.

Because of Benoit? WTF? Hulk Hogan, The Rock ok... but Benoit?
Hm, nevermind

After further inflection, I believe this wasn't a right-minded Chris Benoit.

There is no way the man that his friends and co-workers can attest for with so much love, is the same man that committed these acts.

If a sane Chris Benoit knew of his murderous actions, he would be right in our boat. "How could he?" Well, he didn't. His paranoia or ****ed up head did this.

Well, every family-murder is like that. Suddenly he kills his whole family and everybody goes "WHAT THE HELL?? HE WAS SUCH A NICE GUY"
It has nothing to do with drugs, insane, and so on.
It was him, Chris Benoit. It happened! That's the truth :-(

 

[bdoughty]

This is NeoGAF, dude. Why would you expect "natural" here? This is where people sell naked pictures of their girlfriends for a PSP, for ****'s sake.

Perhaps it's not respectful of the dead to be speculating upon this as people have, but they are, so there's really nothing to be done about it. If you're not a fan of this type of discussion, don't take some moral highroad like you're above it. Just don't participate, simple.

Or you can just ignore my replies. It does work both ways. Just because "this is NeoGaf" does not mean that another side can not be presented. By doing this am I breaking any rules of the forum?

 

[bjork]

Correction: O P A is where olimario (and just olimario) does stuff like that.

***, ********, etc... it's all the same shit. There's so much focus on this place at those places, they might as well be accessible from this forum's main menu.

Or you can just ignore my replies. It does work both ways. Just because "this is NeoGaf" does not mean that another side can not be presented. By doing this am I breaking any rules of the forum?

No one said you were, but by calling me out by name, you were obviously waiting for my response to your non-point.

 

[Speevy]

Yeah you know the Rock and Jericho are glad to be sitting at home right now, rather than scheduled to wrestle next week.

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

More minor updates:

- WWE’s European DVD distributor, Silvervision, has removed the Chris Benoit: Hard Knocks DVD from their web site. ToysRUs.com has removed their Chris Benoit action figures from their web site as well.

- WWE has removed the “I did it!” t-shirt from their ShopZone web site. The shirt was a play off of the Mr. McMahon is “dead” angle.

- TNA Wrestling has removed the post on their official web site, offering condolences to Chris Benoit.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Because of Benoit? WTF? Hulk Hogan, The Rock ok... but Benoit?
Hm, nevermind

Well, Benoit had been wrestling for the past 22 years, basically. Ever since he was 18, he's been a wrestler. Wrestlers under the age of 35 had likely been exposed to Benoit before joining the business, and certainly wrestlers under the age of 30.

He might not have the charisma of Rock, Hogan, Austin, or Foley, but Benoit has been well known in wrestling circles for a long, long time.

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

Also from earlier:

Mike Johnson of PWInsider.com is reporting that World Wrestling Entertainment will not distribute their three hour Chris Benoit tribute show that aired last night on the USA Network to their international affiliates for airing.

The Score in Canada will also not air the program in its regularly scheduled RAW replay slots.

 

[bjork]

- WWE has removed the “I did it!” t-shirt from their ShopZone web site. The shirt was a play off of the Mr. McMahon is “dead” angle.

How long was that available, like 6 days? Hello thar collector's item.

 

[borghe]

I have to say this about Vince in all of this. The guy has handled everything IMHO as best as possible while still trying to maintain a business.

To the guys suggesting that WWE should have gone black for RAW... Do you realize how pissed advertisers would be had they done that? Advertisers pay their rates based on the ratings of RAW. Had WWE or Universal done anything like put a movie in or whatever, advertisers would have more than likely retaliated, pulling ad support from WWE and other shows on Universal networks. ESPECIALLY given the expectation that RAW ratings would have been through the roof given the news.

I think Vince did the right thing last night, even in hindsight. He couldn't put on a "wrasslin'" show due to the emotional state of most of the wrestlers, and couldn't put on dead air. A tribute show was the only option.

What he says tonight and how he handles it will truly mark his ability as a corporate leader.

McMahon has been the target of a lot of flack for a while now, and has almost always been surrounded in controversy. But I have to agree with what Dusty said about him a few weeks back the night the limo exploded. Like him, love him, hate him.. no matter how you feel about the man you have to respect him for what he's done with his business. He's kept it going for almost 30 years and while it's not currently as popular as it once was, it is still going strong enough to not be in danger of dying off.

fake edit - of course knowing my luck he is going to say something mind-bogglingly stupid on ECW.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

i don't know why people give McMahon so much shit. He's handled all thse wrestler deaths pretty well over the years. It can't exactly be an easy situation when you have guys dying left and right.

 

[Stoney Mason]

i don't know why people give McMahon so much shit. He's handled all thse wrestler deaths pretty well over the years. It can't exactly be an easy situation when you have guys dying left and right.

There are some legit reasons to not like some of the actions he has taken over the years. He is far from a saint. That being said, I could probably say that about a lot of owners of businesses. In this particular instance though I don't have a problem at all with how Vince has been handling this Benoit business so far.

Shit happens. And you deal with it as best as you can.

 

[B-Rad Lascelle]

You can give Vince credit for handling a lot of unfortunate situations well and rebounding. That's a legitimate commendation. Particularly when Owen died from a genuine accident.

However, there's a case to be made that the WWE travel regimen and lifestyle conditions an atmosphere that makes it easier for these kinds of tragedies to occur. There's a subjective substance abuse program. "Bigger" wrestlers are rewarded with endless second chances and gimmick overhauls irregardless of any skill they may have in the ring or any charisma they have behind a microphone. Just take a look at a recent Snitsky promo for evidence of that (he looks like a 'Roided up freak of nature). Or the numerous slaps on the wrist for Randy Orton. Or compare pictures of Benoit 2002 to Benoit 2007.

It's an atmosphere that conditions drug abuse to either sell yourself to creative or to combat pain from daily wear-and-tear. Factor in the stress of an endless working schedule and being away from family members for long stretches at a time and a seemingly limitless list of wrestlers that have died young and you have a case that can be made that the cornerstone organization that the industry revolves around has 'corrupted' wrestling and enabled a tragedy like the Benoit murders to occur.

 

[jett]

Wasn't there a passage in the Bible that said something like "he who is free of sin cast the first stone." Or it was something like that. It's none of our places to judge the man in life or death.

... :lol

 

[GaimeGuy]

You can give Vince credit for handling a lot of unfortunate situations well and rebounding. That's a legitimate commendation. Particularly when Owen died from a genuine accident.

However, there's a genuine case to be made that the WWE travel regimen and lifestyle conditions an atmosphere that makes it easier for these kinds of tragedies to occur. There's a subjective substance abuse program. "Bigger" wrestlers are rewarded with endless second chances and gimmick overhauls irregardless of any skill they may have in the ring or any charisma they have behind a microphone. Just take a look at a recent Snitsky promo for evidence of that (he looks like a 'Roided up freak of nature). Or the numerous slaps on the wrist for Randy Orton. Or compare pictures of Benoit 2002 to Benoit 2007.

It's an atmosphere that conditions drug abuse to either sell yourself to creative or to combat pain from daily wear-and-tear. Factor in the stress of an endless working schedule and being away from family members for long stretches at a time and a seemingly limitless list of wrestlers that have died young and you have a case that can be made that the cornerstone organization that the industry revolves around has 'corrupted' wrestling and enabled a tragedy like the Benoit murders to occur.

Wasn't Owen 34 when he died, not 33?

 

[AlanHemberger]

832 496 1783

 

[GaimeGuy]

Phone number

wtf is this

 

[Kintaro]

All I'm going to say is that there's no excuses for what he did. He ended up a troubled man who did terrible things in the end. Whether something was wrong with him or he was just plain crazy and hid it very well, I don't know. Doesn't matter.

All that being said, I will still remember his professional wrestling career with fond memories. The quality of his work and his skill in the ring was at such a high level, that I will not be able to ignore them, even though things turned out this way. As a fan of wrestling (the matches themselves), I will still remember them.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

 

[Speevy]

wtf is this

Chavo Guererro's phone number?


It's not a Fayetteville area code, I can tell you that much.

 

[The Main Event]

832 496 1783

wtf is this

Seconded.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Well, if that's the case, i'm editing it out of my post.

 

[ghostmind]

a Houston TX number

 

[MechDX]

832 496 1783

Houston TX area code, 832.

 

[Manics]

i don't know why people give McMahon so much shit. He's handled all thse wrestler deaths pretty well over the years. It can't exactly be an easy situation when you have guys dying left and right.

You think maybe the fact that you have "guys dying left and right" might give Vince pause?

 

[Speevy]

Alanhemberger isn't some weirdo, it's probably a hotline #. Someone call it.

 

[tralfazz]

reverse lookup says it's available, so way to derail.

 

[Barrage]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ****.

When it was announced Benoit died, I changed my MSN name to "RIP Chris Benoit". I've been gone all day and wasn't able to change it.


...You can imagine the messages I got when I came back.

 

[Bildi]

All I'm going to say is that there's no excuses for what he did. He ended up a troubled man who did terrible things in the end. Whether something was wrong with him or he was just plain crazy and hid it very well, I don't know. Doesn't matter.

All that being said, I will still remember his professional wrestling career with fond memories. The quality of his work and his skill in the ring was at such a high level, that I will not be able to ignore them, even though things turned out this way. As a fan of wrestling (the matches themselves), I will still remember them.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

That's what makes it so difficult. It's two completely different people, which I guess is what happens when someone is a psychopath or whatever.

It's hard to know what to think when one side is a great person, and the other is an absolute monster. It's even hard to type a post like this because I've always thought of him as a good man. So confusing.

 

[Lost Fragment]

Bret Hart comments.

http://sitemail.hostway.com/sitemai...obal_VideoContentHTML.aspx?23863&vc=1&popup=1

 

[AlanHemberger]

Alanhemberger isn't some weirdo, it's probably a hotline #. Someone call it.

It's not a sex line, but you can probably get laid with it.

 

[super funk]

Wow, so it is true that Benoit did hang himself. Which now leads me to believe that last nights tribute was indeed messed up. Not because of the tribute itself, but because it was obviously a murder-suicide. When three people are dead in a house, and one of them killed himself, it pretty obvious what transpired. Shame on the WWE for leading all the fans to belive that it was some kind of family tragedy when they obviously knew what happened.

I also think its pretty clear what the motive was: insanity. When someone killed his wife and child and then himself and then places a Bible next to them. Especially considering Benoit wasnt particularly religious (I read it somehwere in this thread, dont know how reliable it is though), he must have just went cuckoo. This whole situation is so ****ed up.

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

Super funk - they didn't know. Just stop spewing this bullshit, period.

ECW is on and Vince didn't cut any bull.

 

[Nameless]

Wow, so it is true that Benoit did hang himself. Which now leads me to believe that last nights tribute was indeed messed up. Not because of the tribute itself, but because it was obviously a murder-suicide. When three people are dead in a house, and one of them killed himself, it pretty obvious what transpired. Shame on the WWE for leading all the fans to belive that it was some kind of family tragedy when they obviously knew what happened.

I also think its pretty clear what the motive was: insanity. When someone killed his wife and child and then himself and then places a Bible next to them. Especially considering Benoit wasnt particularly religious (I read it somehwere in this thread, dont know how reliable it is though), he must have just went cuckoo. This whole situation is so ****ed up.

How is it obvious? It could've been carbon monoxide, it could've been an outside person commited the murder, could've been his wife that commited the murder, could've been someone killed his kids and benoit killed himself or any number of things. They found out a couple of hours went off the air, what did you expect from them?

 

[White Man]

Wow, so it is true that Benoit did hang himself. Which now leads me to believe that last nights tribute was indeed messed up. Not because of the tribute itself, but because it was obviously a murder-suicide. When three people are dead in a house, and one of them killed himself, it pretty obvious what transpired. Shame on the WWE for leading all the fans to belive that it was some kind of family tragedy when they obviously knew what happened.

The WWE peeps were probably just told that everyone was dead without giving them specifics. Remember that they were also told not to say anything about what happened, too. I don't think the WWE at large knew more details about what really happened until at least when RAW was underway.

If they told Jim Ross what really happened, I doubt he would have said what he did. If Jim *did* know it was a murder-suicide, he did a pretty damn good job of hiding it.

 

[bigmakstudios]

I'm just thinking that there MUST have been some warning signs that something like this might happen, given the way that most pro sports just sweep domestic violence under the rug, you wonder if someone could have done something to stop this, get the guy some help......

wait...
what?
You mean get his wife and son help?

 

[alr1ght]

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/chrisbenoittimeline

WWE/Benoit timeline
Written: June 26, 2007

On Saturday, June 23, Chris Benoit was slated to appear at a WWE live event in Beaumont, Texas. That afternoon, Benoit contacted WWE to inform them that his wife and child were ill, and that he would not be able to attend the show.

WWE executives rebooked Benoit’s flight for the following morning, allowing Benoit to miss the Beaumont event making alternate arrangements for him to attend the pay-per-view event in Houston on Sunday.

WWE employees attempted to confirm with Benoit his travel plans but were unable to contact him.

Early Sunday morning, between 3:51 and 3:58 a.m., Benoit sent five text messages to co-workers:



Text Message 1 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane, Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”

Text Message 2 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:53am)- Chris Benoit’s cell phone
“The dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open”

Text Message 3 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:54am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane.
Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”

Text Message 4 to two co-workers (sent 6/24 at 3:55am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane.
Fayetteville Georgia. 30215"

Text Message 5 to one co-worker (sent 6/24 at 3:58am)- Nancy Benoit’s cell phone
“My address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215”



Throughout the day on Sunday, WWE made numerous attempts to contact Benoit both at home and at local hospitals in the Atlanta area. As of 11:00 p.m., WWE officials were unable to establish contact with Chris Benoit.

At 12:30 p.m. on Monday, June 25, WWE officials were notified of the text messages sent to the co-workers the previous day. By 12:45 p.m., WWE had contacted Fayetteville County Sheriff’s office requesting they check on the Benoit family.

Fayetteville County Sheriffs office made contact with WWE at approximately 4:00 p.m. advising that they had entered the house of Chris Benoit and found three deceased bodies – an adult male, adult female and a male child. WWE was told that Benoit’s home was now considered a major crime scene.

The decision to cancel the live event scheduled in Corpus Christi that night was made between 4:00 and 5:00 p.m. In keeping with company policy, and with limited knowledge regarding facts of the case, WWE choose to air a memorial dedicated to the career of Chris Benoit. As facts emerged surrounding the case, all tributes to Chris Benoit were removed both on-air and on WWE.com.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

You can give Vince credit for handling a lot of unfortunate situations well and rebounding. That's a legitimate commendation. Particularly when Owen died from a genuine accident.

However, there's a case to be made that the WWE travel regimen and lifestyle conditions an atmosphere that makes it easier for these kinds of tragedies to occur. There's a subjective substance abuse program. "Bigger" wrestlers are rewarded with endless second chances and gimmick overhauls irregardless of any skill they may have in the ring or any charisma they have behind a microphone. Just take a look at a recent Snitsky promo for evidence of that (he looks like a 'Roided up freak of nature). Or the numerous slaps on the wrist for Randy Orton. Or compare pictures of Benoit 2002 to Benoit 2007.

It's an atmosphere that conditions drug abuse to either sell yourself to creative or to combat pain from daily wear-and-tear. Factor in the stress of an endless working schedule and being away from family members for long stretches at a time and a seemingly limitless list of wrestlers that have died young and you have a case that can be made that the cornerstone organization that the industry revolves around has 'corrupted' wrestling and enabled a tragedy like the Benoit murders to occur.

There needs to be big time changes in those areas, no doubt. Too bad WWE loves that house show money and TNA wants in on it.

 

[super funk]

How could they not know? According to the timeline that I recall, the police found him at 4 PM and contacted the WWE around 5 PM. These are trained people, I think when they walk into a scene like that they know what went down.

What Im saying is that if the police told the WWE what they found, it was wrong of the WWE to act like it was some sort of terrible family murder. Ive been one of the staunches defenders of the tribute, and I still have no problem with it. My problem is that if the police told the WWE what they found (I dont see why not), the WWE tricked all its viewers into believing the whole event was caused by an third party (intruder, carbon monoxide, etc) when in fact the cause was the man they were honoring.

Edit: Holy shit at those text messages. If glad we finally got official word from the WWE about both the timline and the admittance that they removed all details about him from their site.

 

[PleoMax]

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/chrisbenoittimeline

:*(

 

[Lelielle]

I mean get Chris help, people who abuse thier spouses usually have some big issues to deal with, as far as his wife and kids someone should have noticed the warning signs and got her and her kid out of there. In cases like this a third party needed to intervene. I myself am a suvivor of abuse from a family member and everyone thought it was all peaches on the outside and that the person who abused me was "a good guy". people need to keep an eye on stuff like that and not sit idly by beause you're worried about interfering in something that you aren't involved in. I wish someone had helped me, I had to get out on my own.

 

[White Man]

How could they not know? According to the timeline that I recall, the police found him at 4 PM and contacted the WWE around 5 PM. These are trained people, I think when they walk into a scene like that they know what went down.

What Im saying is that if the police told the WWE what they found, it was wrong of the WWE to act like it was some sort of terrible family murder. Ive been one of the staunches defenders of the tribute, and I still have no problem with it. My problem is that if the police told the WWE what they found (I dont see why not), the WWE tricked all its viewers into believing the whole event was caused by an third party (intruder, carbon monoxide, etc) when in fact the cause was the man they were honoring.

Edit: Holy shit at those text messages. If glad we finally got official word from the WWE about both the timline and the admittance that they removed all details about him from their site.

The police probably didn't tell the WWE exactly what they found. They probably wanted to keep a tight grip on information, and they didn't immediately need thousands of wrestling fans to know specifics.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I mean get Chris help, people who abuse thier spouses usually have some big issues to deal with, as far as his wife and kids someone should have noticed the warning signs and got her and her kid out of there. In cases like this a third party needed to intervene. I myself am a suvivor of abuse from a family member and everyone thought it was all peaches on the outside and that the person who abused me was "a good guy". people need to keep an eye on stuff like that and not sit idly by beause you're worried about interfering in something that you aren't involved in. I wish someone had helped me, I had to get out on my own.

Austin beat the crap out of Debra one time.