Oh, it's certainly interesting. You know the real folks from the shitheads, backstabbers, and sycophants pretty quickly. ;b
Chris Hardwick Allegations and Response Discussion
- Thread starter SonicSleuth
- Start date
Oh, it's certainly interesting. You know the real folks from the shitheads, backstabbers, and sycophants pretty quickly. ;b
Chairman Tickles
Banned
I think career destroying 'accusations' should come with a hefty burden of proof, or the claimant making the accusations should be open to a serious defamation lawsuit. If he doesn't pursue a lawsuit then he's guilty as far as I'm concerned. He has the money to get a good lawyer. If he sues her for damages then the doubt persists and he can absolve himself, because he can win, he has absolute proof his career has been wrecked by nasty, baseless allegations. That's all they are for now.
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It's not going to be as simple as that though. Who wants to sue their ex-gf? I didn't want to sue my ex-fwb-whatever and I ended up not going through with it since it wouldn't have accomplished anything positive. All the real damage was done by the irresponsible press, angry self-righteous people, and me for not handling the crisis situation well, and it had long since finished playing out by the time I had to finalize the decision to sue or not. Regarding my situation: it's fucked up to sue a person with psych problems for expressing their psych problems IMO. That's part of what made the whole thing so difficult to process properly; it was peak #metoo witch hunt season, people posted screenshots of it after she had already deleted it from Facebook on her own (and it was posted on her Facebook to her Facebook friends, not to the press), people on the mod team leaked what I said in private under NDA that wasn't meant for the public, and I didn't know what the hell was the ethically correct thing to do in that situation from that point, and no one else did either, so I kept rewriting my statement (about 12 different times) but not publishing it.
Everyone took that as even more of a presumption of guilt, but it wasn't me having nothing to say. My initial response to the mod team in private (which got leaked to varying degrees) was honest and flatly denied it, but the next day her Facebook thing was deleted and it hadn't turned into a scandal, so it was ambiguous from that point on. It was emotionally difficult to see all the things that transpired as a result of the scandal that followed through regardless of that, but the only way I could see to exonerate myself in an ethical and responsible was to proceed with a legal defense in private without looking for damages. There's no way I was going to publish a bunch of personal stuff involving other people to an angry mob. I will not do something like that and fuck anyone for trying to compel me to. I handled it in private, but damages and retractions are how defamation lawsuits are resolved, and per state law according to my counsel, the statement being retracted already only left seeking monetary damages, so filing the suit was senseless.
Things are rarely as black and white as they look, and basing things on whether a suit is filed or not is definitely not how to straightforwardly solve for it.
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These types of suits are hard to even get a lawyer to litigate for you., because you have to prove a lot of stuff that is only in the mind of the accuser. Since she didn't name him, that makes it harder as well. You also have to prove malice, and not just that she knew that it could ruin his career but that she did because she wanted to ruin his career. They are usually won when you have previous threats to back up that claim.
SonicSleuth
Member
As the OP, I feel like I should add this...
Yesterday my most connected friend in the Hollywood and Comicon culture worlds posted on Facebook about the Hardwick accusations. He didn't make any bold statements, but merely acknowledging the issue... for a guy who wouldn't burn a networking bridge for all the tea in China... speaks volumes.
Yesterday my most connected friend in the Hollywood and Comicon culture worlds posted on Facebook about the Hardwick accusations. He didn't make any bold statements, but merely acknowledging the issue... for a guy who wouldn't burn a networking bridge for all the tea in China... speaks volumes.
pretty sure it would build more bridges than burn them in hollywood. I mean the only bridge burnt would be for hardwick himself, who doesn't have a ton of clout. so nothing really lost to be on the "right side".
wondermega
Member
On the one hand I think suing is baseless and really doesn't help things. On the other I think in certain cases (hardwick, and maybe this one) the fallout from such might make certain people think twice before pulling the trigger on destroying others' livelihood merely to get revenge or whatnot. If you are not already aware, Google Gaslamp Killer to see what he's been through.. Anyway that is obviously a very personal decision as well, and one that no one should be forced to make either..
Chairman Tickles
Banned
EviLore
, Even if it is just for monetary damages, that money can help get you back on your feet, independent of perceived reputation. Those accusations damaged your business.M Moneal So he can go after publications that print this unverified libel.
Depends. If the libel has damaged your livelyhood as you suggest, damages payout can help rebuild it. This can be physical or psychological trauma. Personal story;
I was driving my car, went through a green light, was struck by a pickup truck that ran a red light. It ended my career at a precision engineering plant here in Sydney. I sued the drivers insurance company-third party insurance is mandatory here. At 25 years of age, in combination with salary abruptly slashed to zero they simply did the math. I was granted an appropriate payout that ensures I don't have to work because I physically can't work in my profession anymore.
If you're an actor or work in a public space, and such libel destroys your trained profession, the math can be done. Just need to find the one with the ability to payout. Everybody is insured these days. Make the insurers pay.
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Its just as hard to go after publications for printing. They would only be libel, if they knew what they were printing was false. they can point to social media types claiming it was him to print the accusations and associating them with him. That right there takes libel off the table. They are covered. now if there wasn't anyone claiming it was him and they printed it he might have a case.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
At the very least he can force them to retract damaging information pointing in his direction. Failure to comply could lead to another gawker-hogan scenario. Granted retractions don't mean much, the damage is done with the headline on the first day.
Ultimately he's a multi-millionaire, with a ruined reputation. Things could be worse, but if it were me I'd go full legal menace to society just on principle. I'd sue every man and his dog and see what stuck.
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CampbellzSoup
Member
It's just so funny how the accusers are to be taken at face value without any kind of investigation what-so-ever. Someone's life is over; over an allegation.
Where is the line we draw in this?
Where is the line we draw in this?
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*was. Not a big deal and I'm okay, but just to be clear I didn't sell out and neogaf has always been a minimally monetized passion project. I'm not a fair weather loyalist. ;b
Chairman Tickles
Banned
I was referring to Chris in that second sentence, but damn I didn't know that. Hopefully you can rebuild. Good luck mate. You're lucky you kept firm reins on this site or they would have taken it from you.
CampbellzSoup
Member
Did going through this change your outlook on things? I still couldn't believe how a majority of this site turned so quickly on you "knowing" you for years and yet an accusation a mere accusation people turned their back on you do?
Chairman Tickles
ah, my bad. No worries, I'm a capable lad. That's part of the problem, though, I suppose. I'm a capable lad and I can handle it. I don't need to nor do I want to play victim. But it sure wasn't fun or deserved, and shouldn't have happened in the first place, and in any saner times it would not have.There doesn't seem to be much of a line, eh? I mean, this is basically.....Chris Hardwick's ex-girlfriend doesn't like him now I guess? Therefore destroy his life? And regardless of the allegations he has it coming because he's just an incompetent asshole with a worthless profession so fuck him?
Maybe I'm missing something since I have no interest in his beeswax, there only seems to be shit about a consensual long term relationship here, and I didn't go read TMZ for the sordid details.
Elvin Culdrige
Neo Member
boy thing not looking nice for chris here. we'll see i guess
llien
Banned
For what, in particular? (just curious, since I don't see anything beyond "one of the partners is controlling the other", which is how relationships work for, I"d dare to say, majority of couples)
He can't force a retraction unless she recants or the allegations are proven false. They will just add that he refutes the claims and move on to the next story. The Hogan story was them using something that was meant to be private into the public without any party's permission. This is just he said she said. He really doesn't have much legal recourse if the allegations aren't true. Its probably best for him to just take his money and basically disappear either way.
Greedings
Member
I think the power dynamic in relationships is really getting screwed up. Sure, women have always had power over men, from sexuality and from simple rejection. Now though, women have the power to destroy a man's career if they feel like it.
So, can I not dump my hypothetical girlfriend in case she says I was raping her the whole time? Even if it's never proven, my career would still be destroyed in the court of twitter.
I'm not saying that women are oppressing men or anything ridiculous like that, I just think that younger generations are going to have a hard time forming relationships and not destroying each other in the process. This power shift, compounded with their already pathetic social skills will really screw things up.
So, can I not dump my hypothetical girlfriend in case she says I was raping her the whole time? Even if it's never proven, my career would still be destroyed in the court of twitter.
I'm not saying that women are oppressing men or anything ridiculous like that, I just think that younger generations are going to have a hard time forming relationships and not destroying each other in the process. This power shift, compounded with their already pathetic social skills will really screw things up.
wondermega
Member
My apologies, I completely wrote that incorrectly. Of course it helps things, and to say it is "baseless" is obviously not how I meant to put it. I was trying to say that in some cases it helps nobody on either side. That's clearly not true.
In reference to my quote "he shouldn't get off scot-free" I just mean he had a pretty squeaky-clean image before, and that was pretty celebrated. This just brings that image down to reality, he's a person with issues like the rest of us (and to his merit, people who listen to his podcast are used to hearing him readily admit that, at least without him going into details). But to reiterate the point I was making, he doesn't deserve to lose the recognition (or the momentum) of the work he was doing, for being a shitty guy/making human mistakes.
llien
Banned
Well, we see one of our friends attends poker evenings only once a year.
His wife is the reason.
Is it not controlling? It sure is, although I've seen much worse cases (like not seeing friends at all).
Is it something someone would go over board about, if revealed? Hell no. He is a grown up and it's his decision to live that way, whatever works for a couple, is couples' business.
Imagine, say, Tina Turner's 40 years younger than her ex going out with controlling accusations, would it harm T.T. even remotely as much, or at all?
For some puzzling reason this doesn't apply to C.H.'s ex.
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Mohonky
Member
Dont really care for the incessant victim blaming titles that get thrown around like everyone is some sort of fragile little entity entirely devoid of making any reasonable decisions for themselves; the guy clearly laid out a road map of what sort of asshole he was, that she decided to stay around to act as a doormat is her problem.
The allegations of unwanted sexual conduct and shit talking is an entirely different matter.....
The allegations of unwanted sexual conduct and shit talking is an entirely different matter.....
Chairman Tickles
Banned
This has already begun. Relationships and a significant proportion of families with children are in shambles across the western world. In Australia 15% of households with kids consist of single parent families. This has grown consistently over the past decade. Single parent Kids end up being disadvantaged and tend to inherit the behaviours of the household. It's a self propagating trend.
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Greedings
Member
This happens both way round though. Some of my wife's female friends aren't allowed out after 10pm, or in other cases not at all.
demigod
Member
Im sure those confirmations has nothing to do with sexual assault. Nothing wrong with the guy's rules even if it sounds like he's a dbag. Coming out with accusations and killing the guy's career and now she's "taking a break" from twitter, like really wtf?
Unless she actually provides any evidence, this seems like a mentally unstable ex who wanted to ruin his life because he's successful and she isn't. She obviously has not been blacklisted. Imdb shows a steady amount of work since they split. It's not like she was an A list actress. She did random stuff before and still does random low budget stuff.
#metoo was a disagree. All it takes is 1 word and a mans life is ruined. This is what feminism is all about, revenge. So many mens lives have been ruined because of a lying feminist looking for a payday. I feel so bad for Chris, the man is a good guy. I believe him. But, at the end of the day this a Womans world where anything you do will have you arrested and your life and career ruined. Nowdays I don't even look at Women or talk to them without a third party present and a consent form.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Yeah, her essay said basically that her life was shit with Chris and so horribly. She left him for another man. The ending certainly seems to be untruthful.
Some texts have come out. Seems to back up Chris. To be fair, his statement was short tho.
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/0619_Hardwick Texts.pdf
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off duty ninja
Member
Reading that it sounds more like he was properly warning colleagues to avoid crazy rather than specifically trying to blacklist her.
Max Legroom
Banned
Did he send that pathetic Goodbye, Cruel Girl! wall of text after they broke up? Dude should have hit the gym instead of getting in his feelings.
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
I have no idea whether he did or didn't. I will say if he did, it didn't work. She seems to have as much and better work after then before.
That doesn't excuse him if he did indeed try. He's fucked up if he did.
But that was just one accusation she made. Since her essay, everything that has come out makes the other accusations look suspect.
And lets be honest, most everything she said shouldn't be have been public. Does sexual assault deserve to be made public, YES! Does consensual sex that isn't sexual assault that's later claimed to be sexual assault be made public, NO!
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Apparently she was kind of leading him along, he was working to get her back. Then realized nope not doing that and goodbye. He then didn't answer texts from her asking to talk it out.
There is really nothing you can do if a chick #metoos you. You can't defend yourself or else you hate women. If you stay quiet, you are admitting guilt.
You just have to pray that some other woman questions the story. That's what happened with Asiz Ansari. You could read the Twitter sphere getting revved up to put him down, but becuase that CNN reporter criticized the story, public opinion turned in his favor
You just have to pray that some other woman questions the story. That's what happened with Asiz Ansari. You could read the Twitter sphere getting revved up to put him down, but becuase that CNN reporter criticized the story, public opinion turned in his favor
Grinchy
Banned
Yep, and sane people were pointing out how ridiculous the #believewomen campaign was years ago. You can't just believe every accusation you hear just because your favorite team is making the accusation.
wondermega
Member
I think saying things "turned in the favor" of Aziz might be a tad bit optimistic. From where I sit it looks like that guy's career is still fairly damaged if not outright fucked.
Nintendo Switch
Banned
No one should lose their job or considered guilty without atleast a tiny bit of corroborating evidence.
The evidence can be multiple accusers, emails, texts, eye witnesses etc, something.
Without evidence, it's a he said she said situation and people shouldn't be assumed guilty based on that.
The evidence can be multiple accusers, emails, texts, eye witnesses etc, something.
Without evidence, it's a he said she said situation and people shouldn't be assumed guilty based on that.
okay, I can see that, but he is doing much better than Hardwick is doing right now
SonicSleuth
Member
More information comes to the fray: https://www.thewrap.com/patty-hearst-defends-chris-hardwick-chloe-dykstra-video/
Okay, Chloe, ball is in your court. Produce some of the evidence you claimed you had, or you better be prepared for the inevitable backlash. A bad boyfriend who you cheated on does not equal a sexual predator monster.
Okay, Chloe, ball is in your court. Produce some of the evidence you claimed you had, or you better be prepared for the inevitable backlash. A bad boyfriend who you cheated on does not equal a sexual predator monster.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
We are also months away from Aziz. Days away from Hardwick.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Actually Chloe may be in a bit of a bind here.
Had Chloe not mentioned in here essay that she had "secret" audio and video then she could simply leak it. If she submits it now, without his consent she could face legal issues.
Good point
The more that is coming out about this, the more Chris seems like he actually was a pretty good boyfriend who had expectations that Chloe couldn't meet. They weren't a good match. They probably argued but that is not abuse
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Aziz already had his moment.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
That's exactly the way it seems... assuming you didn't pick a side at the beginning. If you believed Hardwick was a monster when you read the essay, there isn't anything that will come out short of an admission of lying that will change your mind. Immediately people said the texts mean nothing. They do tho.
Also I've seen comments that say it's "proven" Hardwick Blacklisted or attempted to. Can anyone post this? I've googled a few and couldn't find it. Only the accusation.
wondermega
Member
Anyway whatever the case I can't imagine things going back to "how they were." Hardwick isn't exactly even a B lister so no one will think about this 2 weeks from now (care if she's said anything else to defend her accusations) but the damage has been done. Her career/rep will likely stay the same if not dipped a bit. They've both had their moment in the press. Striking similarities to the Neogaf situation many months ago and I'm sure that's not lost on many people here. I shudder to think of what other examples are to come in the future. We are truly living in the damn Black Mirror future now, I wouldn't wish the wrath of the Internet on anybody..
I think the only proven "blacklisting" was her being banned from the nerdist building....which I can understand since Chris owned it and probably didn't want his company to work with someone who had been dishonest and broken his trust after cheating. That seems reasonable. If there is any other blacklisting I would be interested in seeing the evidence.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
The only thing I am seeing is that the accusations should never have been made public.
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demigod
Member
Some dude tweeted that he was told to blacklist her and now coming out to defend her. Like really you're as bad as that person. But really it doesn't matter at all, thats not grounds to fire someone being accused of sex assault.
Funny how she says he begged her back but that tmz leak says otherwise. Gee, i wonder who is lying?