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Chrono Trigger: An Amazing RPG with One Semi-Major Problem (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter BluePikmin11
- Start date
Rogue Agent
Banned
Gaspar, the Guru of Time, gives you some information on the side quests before you even enter the Black Omen. When you talk to the party members that are resting in the End of Time, they also give you some info on these side quests.
Yeah, Black Omen might as well be a main quest, I've done it on every playthrough. Really easy place to level up to take on Lavos.
Though in the 90s, I didn't think of RPGs in terms of main and side quests. The very clear delineation is more of a modern thing. I think Chrono Trigger is too cohesive to even try to clearly label things as "sidequests". Everything matters.
brandonh83
Banned
Always considered the Black Omen to be the final dungeon I dunno what ya'll on about
The way the sidequests are introduced is pretty cool too with the Guru of Time giving you the hints about how to do them.
PataHikari
Banned
How on earth was the OP unable to beat the game in the 40s? This game is not hard.
This is why I refuse to agree with anyone who thinks the DS version is the definitive version. The added content is terrible.
And yes, it's optional, but the original SNES version is as close to perfection as you can get, and these extra quests are so bad they taint the experience just by existing.
Level 40 seems so arbitrary. How is this indicative of anything? Queen Zeal's attack lowering you to 1 HP happens regardless of level, so that really doesn't mean much.
You can start fighting Lavos as soon as you reach the End of Time. Is the rest of the game an optional side quest you shouldn't have to complete?
I thought it was kind of cool to have some extra stuff to do, but it really started grating on me about halfway through. I don't think I'd bother with it again on a replay. At a certain point it was just up down up down the mountain one shotting every encounter. Even worse if you miss something and go up and down without accomplishing anything.
As for the DS as a definitive version: maybe, maybe not. I still like it quite a bit. Keeping combat clutter off the main screen, revised translation, portability and a couple other things (did the SNES one have a bestiary?). I enjoyed that goofy monster battling game while playing through the main story as well. Never did try the post-game super bosses, but hell, maybe those would be a nice distraction for the OP who's looking for a challenge.
Even if the extra stuff is sub par it is 100% optional. The most it "taints" your experience is the short cutscene showing the rifts opening on the world map.
Interesting! I actually never went through the Black Omen when I originally played the game. I think I might have gone right away, got wrecked by that first boss, and neglected to return. Crashed the Epoch and went in through the bucket, that's it. Doing Black Omen now in a replay though many years later, haha.
Also this time through I resurrected Chrono as the very last side quest I could do. I almost felt like skipping it and making his death a part of my play through, Lucca had taken the mantle as leader of the party and was going to do her goddamn best to save the world (still have her in the front spot). I chickened out though and got him back as late as possible. That ended up being very touching too. At the peak when Marle is trying to say everything they did while he was gone... God damn. It made me feel like he was missed. You really fall in love with all the characters in this game.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The DS version has both names on it. Wise decision too since they actually got Mitsuda to supervise the porting of the music in the DS version. He also got to record two tracks in orchestral versions (the main theme and a medley) for a pre-order bonus CD.
Jane Mansfield
Banned
Chrono Cross.... good game, but a shit sequel to Chrono Trigger.
But the soundtrack is GOAT!
Davey Cakes
Member
The n00b Avenger
Member
Level 40 is technically high enough to beat Lavos anyway, as long as you bring in the characters with the highest magic defense and give them accessories to boost their HP to 999. (and if you picked up the Zodiac Cape in the Black Omen then whoever has that equipped might not even need to boost their HP to survive it. Alternatively you could give it to Ayla and boost her HP and she becomes usable too. Forget Robo and Crono though, they're probably going to be lost causes. Granted a few extra levels and Crono becomes viable)
Though after that you have to pray the third form doesn't get around to using Grand Stone because it's going to hurt with that party. Lucca's Protect spell should help though. If you brought Ayla she'll probably take it pretty well. Maybe Dreamless as well, I don't remember how strong that is compared to the lasers. I think you could survive it if you can survive the lasers but I'm not sure. Marle+Zodiac Cape+999 HP should definitely make it through and she can heal and revive the others afterwards. Either way neither of those moves are guaranteed like the lasers are so you can technically kill him before he uses them.
Though after that you have to pray the third form doesn't get around to using Grand Stone because it's going to hurt with that party. Lucca's Protect spell should help though. If you brought Ayla she'll probably take it pretty well. Maybe Dreamless as well, I don't remember how strong that is compared to the lasers. I think you could survive it if you can survive the lasers but I'm not sure. Marle+Zodiac Cape+999 HP should definitely make it through and she can heal and revive the others afterwards. Either way neither of those moves are guaranteed like the lasers are so you can technically kill him before he uses them.
BluePikmin11
Member
You have a point, I could've had magic defense based ger to protect me from the lasers.
The chances I would've thought of that are pretty low. I thought the equipment I had had enough defense to survive the lasers.
Level 40 was the level I reached by the time I finished the Black Omen, not doing the side quests at all. It doesn't seem completely random to me. I felt like I had natural level progression during the entire story.
The point I made with Queen Zeal is that me defeating her gave me the confidence that I could defeat the Lavos inside the shell because she was really challenging. Which gave me desire to complete the game now, of which moments later killed my party instantly, which ticked me off.
I mean yeah, he does give you info about the side-quests, but you also have the choice to not do those sidequests and skip to the Black Omen to continue the plot.
Thinking about it now, I think I have a better solution to solving the issue I had with the final boss.
Instead of requiring to do all side-quests before, the game would check your level with party members to see if its high enough to surpass the enemies in Black Omen and the final boss.
That way, it lets New Game+ players who are already at a high level skip the side-quests and have new players experience a bit more of the story and grind enough levels to face the Black Omen.
Or alternatively, just make the final boss easier for those who chose to do the Black Omen over side-quests.
Chrono Cross is a fantastic game and a fantastic sequel to Chrono Trigger.
Karsticles
Member
Neither of these things are true.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Firstly, you can still beat the boss without these side quests, but what I'm confused is why you didn't want to do them. These 'side quests' are related to story elements that the game has touched on in the past - it's not some mindless grind-fest.
You get both resolutions to some story things as well as some cool new gear.
Therefore as it has been mentioned before, these shouldn't even be called standard side quests - and I'm still confused as to why you wanted to miss all this stuff and just skip to the Black Omen and the final bosses. The whole natural progression of the story doesn't make much sense to me since these side quests were also related to characters in your party.
Depends what you expect from a sequel. I think it fits into the 'Chrono' universe nicely. It's just not your conventional sequel.
You are not true.
BluePikmin11
Member
I already said it in the OP.
I did so I could do another run while getting Magus this time, because I missed the opportunity of getting him in my first run.
Second, I rushed in so I could do New Game+, which would allow me to progress to the story easier, experience the different endings faster, and quickly get Magus in the second run.
Third, I already felt satisfied enough with the story with Crono's return to the party to not bother with side-quests and proceed to the Black Omen.
I am aware that these side-quests are not mindless grindfests and have a bit of story to them. I just wanted to experience them later in my second run when my party is at a high level with New Game +. I thought to myself that I would rather not do the same side quests twice in two runs. It's a bit of resourceful thinking. I only plan to play the game one more time to experience everything.
That's what led me to continue to the main story.
Rogue Agent
Banned
I see. To each of his own I guess, since there were a few things that felt unresolved or hinted before but nothing happened. But it makes sense, since they were still optional.
That makes sense too, but the funny thing is that these side quests would give you more stuff to help you with Lavos and the Black Omen. I mean, the whole point of them is to add more development of your party members and actually get your hands on powerful stuff hinted before. And I say this from the POV of someone who's playing it for the first time.
So it feels a bit weird that you'd leave it for the NG+ playthrough - it's not really resourceful. To me, it feels more natural to proceed with these quests out of curiosity and have this curiosity rewarded with more character development and powerful items so that IMO is more resourceful - but I suppose it just depends on how you play. Blaming the game for it is a bit much, though.
AlphaDragoon
Member
This song is godlike. Based Mitsuda and Laura Shigihara.
BluePikmin11
Member
I'd rather get the powerful weapons on the second run while I'm still powerful with New Game+, while experience a new part of the story with side quests. So that I'd have this satisfying growth of stats and a god-like feeling in my second run.
Yeah Black Omen is really hard, but not frustrating and its possible to accomplish. It's very satisfying to beat an enemy that clearly has the upper advantage in stats. Actually when I think about it, me conquering the entire Black Omen did give me that confidence that I could beat the final boss as well.
I hope I do, I can't wait to see the story unfold some more with the various endings. That always got me wanting to play the game again.That's an interesting outlook to have. Fair enough
Greatest Ever
Member
Not doing the side quests makes Black Omen Lavos way the fuck harder. Do them, even with a guide. Being level 50-ish is good for taking him on.
Rogue Agent
Banned
I'd rather get the powerful weapons on the second run while I'm still powerful with New Game+, while experience a new part of the story with side quests. So that I'd have this satisfying growth of stats and a god-like feeling in my second run.
That's an interesting outlook to have. Fair enough
I hope you end up enjoying NG+ more.Glitter and Gold
Banned
I'm not sure about that. The game is pretty linear up until the very end where it just dumps all this optional content in your lap at once.
I kind of wish it spread them out more. Chrono Trigger leaves a lot of its world building until you're right at the edge of the point of no return.
That said Black Omen is only optional in name only I feel. You're passing up on a lot of the strongest gear and accessories by trying to complete the game without it.
mrmickfran
Member
Just beat the game without ever knowing that Frog can actually learn magic.
I hate myself.
I hate myself.
I think it's a terrible sequel if you liked the 'Chrono' universe.
Chrono Cross:
Unless I misunderstood that story section completely, it specifically says the original party accomplished nothing and are all dead (and anyone you ever dealt with/tried to save are too). Basically the original game was pointless in all respects.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
I think the biggest failing of Chrono Cross is that it abandoned
as a core character, as was originally planned.(And I think actually was the case in Radical Dreamers)
I think that would have better tied the games together as that was the biggest hanging thread left over from the first game. A thread that Chrono Cross still tries to handle, but without that character. So it ends up being a hard sell to get the player invested in its resolution relative to where the first game leaves off.
As a result Chrono Cross ends up feeling barely related to a game that it's supposed to be a direct sequel to.
Magus
I think that would have better tied the games together as that was the biggest hanging thread left over from the first game. A thread that Chrono Cross still tries to handle, but without that character. So it ends up being a hard sell to get the player invested in its resolution relative to where the first game leaves off.
As a result Chrono Cross ends up feeling barely related to a game that it's supposed to be a direct sequel to.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I remember that one thing he said that made it sound like there was an extra sidequest.
Drove me crazy for a while until I saw in magazines no-one else had found an extra sidequest. some years later I found it was a mistranslation.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
You misunderstood that story section completely. Only Lucca is "considered" dead, and this is a time travel series and we didn't see her corpse anyway. Avenging her death is a huge motivation for one of the characters in the game. Robo dies during the course of the game but the timeline where that happens is literally rewritten by the end of the game. Remember when Crono died in the first game? Omg how did Square dare!!11!1!!
Besides, sequels always introduce a new threat after the original story ended peacefully. That's the point of any sequel. Are you going to tell me that Marty and George McFly accomplished nothing in Back to the Future Part 1 because George dies and the whole world goes to shit in Part 2? Makes no sense.
Besides, sequels always introduce a new threat after the original story ended peacefully. That's the point of any sequel. Are you going to tell me that Marty and George McFly accomplished nothing in Back to the Future Part 1 because George dies and the whole world goes to shit in Part 2? Makes no sense.
It's a major plot point in the endgame of (spoiler for big last-gen RPG)
Dragon Age: Origins
Rogue Agent
Banned
Which thing was that?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
"One of you is close to someone who needs help. Find this person, fast."
It was supposed to read something to the effect of, "For matters concerning each time era, talk to your teammates." It's a hint telling you to talk to the various player characters standing around the End of Time; upon doing so, they will provide information about the sidequests in their home eras.
You're technically not getting the best ending regardless if you didn't recruit Magus. This complaint seems more like you being nitpicky.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Thanks. Yeah I remember that and being confused by it.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Eh, the ending without Magus is still pretty good. You get to see human Glenn. I'd say it's actually an even better ending than with Magus.
Greatest Ever
Member
Yeah, but when you recruit Magus you get something closer to a resolution to the Schala subplot and the peaceful end of Frog's character arc sits better with me.
Yep. Same goes for me. WAY too many memories associated with the release of this game. I've never watch a video game trailer as much as the reveal trailer for that game. Well... except maybe the Versus XIII trailers and maybe the odd other game.
Same. Everything in CT is technically a side quest because you can beat Lavos any time after getting to the end of time.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Shiiiiit, spoilers for TC man
He may not have figured that out yet
I thought TC got that ending already?
Lol. His death (although not canon) is a resolution. His ending without dying, on the other hand, isn't. Until the next game anyway.
Radical Dreamers.
The Chrono universe is by far my favorite one in all of gaming, and I absolutely LOVE Chrono Cross, and what that game did with the lore.
Besides, what you posted in spoilers is completely false and very misleading.
Excellent post. To this day it still surprises me how people tend to modify Chrono Cross' story.
kunonabi
Member
certainly better than freaking Undertale at the very least.
Crimsonsky
Member
How? A small cast of lovable, but interesting characters? Nope, 44 cut outs with paper thin development. An interesting story spanning multiple timelines where your actions in one can drastically change the others? Nope, interesting enemies and villains? Nein. Where and how does CC "fit" in the "Chrono" universe? It mentions the original characters only briefly for what amounts to mere seconds of total playtime. The mishandling of Guile is yet another travesty. You have to take it on good faith that a game we didn't even get here is the real recollection of Guile because the creators of CC were not capable of pulling it off right and even admitted to it being too hard. Without Radical Dreamers to curb the tide of ineptitude, the crimes CC commits against the Chrono-verse are worse than fan fiction.
It's not a good sequel. That is the problem. It hardly matters what it does with the story, because the people who made it weren't competent enough to pull off a multi-faceted story with complex characters and motivations. That what makes it a terrible sequel. Not a bad game, certainly a bad sequel. Chrono Trigger is better when Chrono Cross doesn't exist. That's makes it quintessentially a bad sequel.
People who argue that Cross is good are arguing that Dalton was one of the most important characters in CT with the power to change the course of history. Absurd, he was barely worthy of mention. Mere moments of mention in CT, translates to the catalyst of all change and arguably one of the most important characters in CC. Get out of here. They should've never made a sequel to a game designed by a literal dream team. Of course it was going to be a shallow successor.
robotzombie
Member
Duh, of course not. Chrono Trigger is loaded with problems. It's a good game, nowhere near a great one, occasionally dipping lower and occasionally being better.
One thing I didn't like about CT was that Lavos would transform into elements of previous boss battles that were beaten about 20 hours ago, I couldn't remember how to beat a certain boss's gimmick and so I'd die. Basically without walkthroughs or guides I'd have to start a new game to learn the bosses gimmicks to overcome them.
That aside, Chrono Trigger is still the best RPG ever made. I've played through it four times. I will probably go a fifth later this year.
That aside, Chrono Trigger is still the best RPG ever made. I've played through it four times. I will probably go a fifth later this year.