How? A small cast of lovable, but interesting characters? Nope, 44 cut outs with paper thin development. An interesting story spanning multiple timelines where your actions in one can drastically change the others? Nope, interesting enemies and villains? Nein. Where and how does CC "fit" in the "Chrono" universe? It mentions the original characters only briefly for what amounts to mere seconds of total playtime. The mishandling of Guile is yet another travesty. You have to take it on good faith that a game we didn't even get here is the real recollection of Guile because the creators of CC were not capable of pulling it off right and even admitted to it being too hard. Without Radical Dreamers to curb the tide of ineptitude, the crimes CC commits against the Chrono-verse are worse than fan fiction.
It's not a good sequel. That is the problem. It hardly matters what it does with the story, because the people who made it weren't competent enough to pull off a multi-faceted story with complex characters and motivations. That's what makes it a terrible sequel. Not a bad game, certainly a bad sequel. Chrono Trigger is better when Chrono Cross doesn't exist. That's makes it quintessentially a bad sequel.
People who argue that Cross is good are arguing that Dalton was one of the most important characters in CT with the power to change the course of history. Absurd, he was barely worthy of mention. Mere moments of mention in CT, translates to the catalyst of all change and arguably one of the most important characters in CC. Get out of here. They should've never made a sequel to a game designed by a literal dream team. Of course it was going to be a shallow successor.
Once again you are proving you never even played Chrono Cross.
Dalton? Dalton is never mentioned in Cross. Not once. And his actions are pretty much irrelevant to Cross' plot. The fall of the Kingdom of Guardia is mentioned what, once? And just barely. Hell, it is not even directly referenced as a fall. What exactly are you talking about? Dalton was the catalyst of pretty much NOTHING in Cross. The whole game revolves around Schala, Lavos and Belthasar. Where are you getting Dalton from?
Play the DS version. I've played everything with the Chrono name on it multiple times. The DS version essentially makes Dalton the catalyst for the fall of Guardia. This is already mentioned in Chrono Cross when it mentions the Porre invasion. Pay attention next time. The makers of CC added this travesty into the DS version to help add some foundation to their ass pull of a story. CC is a fine game when you only give it a cursory glance. Any attempt to delve a little deeper makes it all come crashing down.
If Guardia didn't fall this story never happens. Ah the old goal post. Whatever illusory restrictions you setup, I did not. I only have the games to go off of. Including nonsense added to the remakes by the same hacks whose game you ardently defend.
Play the DS version. I've played everything with the Chrono name on it multiple times. The DS version essentially makes Dalton the catalyst for the fall of Guardia. This is already mentioned in Chrono Cross when it mentions the Porre invasion. Pay attention next time. The makers of CC added this travesty into the DS version to help add some foundation to their ass pull of a story. CC is a fine game when you only give it a cursory glance. Any attempt to delve a little deeper makes it all come crashing down.
fall of the Kingdom of Guardia is barely mentioned in Cross, and it's pretty much irrelevant to the plot of Chrono Cross. Glad you moved your goalpost to Chrono Trigger DS instead, so pretty much admit you were making stuff up.
And no. Cross expands perfectly on the lore of the Chrono world and enhances it.
It's not a good sequel. That is the problem. It hardly matters what it does with the story, because the people who made it weren't competent enough to pull off a multi-faceted story with complex characters and motivations. That what makes it a terrible sequel. Not a bad game, certainly a bad sequel. Chrono Trigger is better when Chrono Cross doesn't exist. That's makes it quintessentially a bad sequel.
This opinion blows my mind because I can't think of a sequel that is as tangential and non-impactful upon the original as Chrono Cross was.
Chrono Cross takes place in a kind of
"second timeline" to the world of Chrono Trigger, not unlike the Star Trek 2009 movie was to the original Star Trek.
Sometimes I don't think people really realize this.
What Crono and crew did in CT
changed the future (what future Balthasar lands in), which changed the past (the Time Crash), creating the El Nido Archipelago and all the events of Cross. This means that the fates of all the CT characters in Cross can be thought of either as real or as something that happened in a different time loop altogether.
You can imagine that in CT prime, Crono and Marle are floating along under a bunch of balloons and that's the last we see of them. But Cross posits
that the events of CT spun off alternate timelines in which the characters suffer various fates.
Having said that, even if you treat CT + CC as
a single timeline... I've never gotten the revulsion to seeing the CT characters die after years or centuries (!!). It seems like they all lived full lives after 1000AD.
SNES version has the better intro sequence (it was outright removed in the other versions) and the better translation (DS version was retranslated by someone who didn't even know shit about the original).
The original translation is unfaithful and flawed as fuuuuuuuck
You have Frog's dialogue which was incredibly gimmicky, the sequence where they all get drunk doesn't make sense because it's pork bean soup in the localized version, they cut out or changed lines haphazardly which caused continuity issues... the list goes on. The new translation is way more faithful/better and the script is generally stronger.
How? A small cast of lovable, but interesting characters? Nope, 44 cut outs with paper thin development. An interesting story spanning multiple timelines where your actions in one can drastically change the others? Nope, interesting enemies and villains? Nein.
Lol. Opinions how do they work?! I find Lynx, Harle, FATE, etc. way more interesting as enemies than Yakra, Heckran, Sir Krawlie, etc. But that's just my opinion. I have my opinion and you have yours. On the other hand, it is fact that the playable cast of Chrono Cross overall has more character development than that of Chrono Trigger. Hell, Radius alone has more development than half of the CT cast combined. I don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that Crono, Marle and Ayla's developments are anything more than paper thin...
Also, I love how you say "the makers of CC" as if the lead scenario writer of CT, RD and CC weren't the same person.
The original translation is unfaithful and flawed as fuuuuuuuck
You have Frog's dialogue which was incredibly gimmicky, the sequence where they all get drunk doesn't make sense because it's pork bean soup in the localized version, they cut out or changed lines haphazardly which caused continuity issues... the list goes on. The new translation is way more faithful/better and the script is generally stronger.
The original translation has a few errors and imperfections so it's worth looking up a FAQ about it, but the new translation is definitely not better in terms of script quality. The guy changed some of the iconic lines that didn't need changing and generally made the game a bit too serious. He also introduced new inconsistencies of his own, like making Azala female. And Frog's speech is still gimmicky in the new version.
The original translation is unfaithful and flawed as fuuuuuuuck
You have Frog's dialogue which was incredibly gimmicky, the sequence where they all get drunk doesn't make sense because it's pork bean soup in the localized version, they cut out or changed lines haphazardly which caused continuity issues... the list goes on. The new translation is way more faithful/better and the script is generally stronger.
The original translation has a few errors and imperfections so it's worth looking up a FAQ about it, but the new translation is definitely not better in terms of script quality. The guy changed some of the iconic lines that didn't need changing and generally made the game a bit too serious. He also introduced new inconsistencies of his own, like making Azala female. And Frog's speech is still gimmicky in the new version.
There a ton of inconsistencies and errors in the OG version. You can actually see them all here.. But there's a bunch; a few that are unforgivable even (like cutting some of Frog's dialogue)
And Azala was never referred by gender in the Japanese version period (it used gender neutral pronouns), so making it female wasn't necessarily "wrong."
For some instances, yeah, but he arguably get's as much wrong as he gets right. Some lines just sound off, and everyone has a very simplistic (borderline saturday morning cartoon) way of speaking.
On the other hand, it is fact that the playable cast of Chrono Cross overall has more character development than that of Chrono Trigger. Hell, Radius alone has more development than half of the CT cast combined. I don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that Crono, Marle and Ayla's developments are anything more than paper thin...
All Chrono Trigger's characters are quite two dimensional. Cross certainly has it beat in that regard, but then it is the altogether more "serious" and ambitious work.
I used to think Trigger's characterisation was its main flaw. Upon subsequent replays I realised it actually works quite well with the whole fairytale-ish feel the game has. One thing Chrono Trigger does really well is balance the intimate and the epic, and I think characters that are too complex, nuanced or realistic would tip the scales too much towards the latter. That said, they probably are still slightly underdeveloped if I'm being ultra-critical, but then no game is perfect, not even Chrono Trigger.
